I gave a presentation at this week's conference in Boston. It was a something of a 20 minute version of the ICANN All Things WHOIS program, although with fewer topics and a focus on details that were most likely to be of interest to the anti abuse community. Four people raised the same suggestion either before the session or during Q/A: Require providers to assign unique IDs to their customers so that we can identify the p/p registrations held by a given entity even if we don't know who is it. We can explore the idea or not, but I am certain that it will be suggested in public comments to our draft report. FWIW, the suggesters (word?) aren't affiliated and were an international group. Don
Don and PPSAI Team: We have also explored this internally, and the short story is that it isn't acceptable to our customers. Especially those holding large portfolios of domains for investment, as it is too easy to cross-reference a Unique ID to compile the entire portfolio, which would otherwise be private. Similarly, if someone purchases a domain name from a P/P customer, then they immediately know the identity for all private domains associated with the same Unique ID. Happy to discuss further on our next call, especially if you believe it will come up again in Public Comments. But generally, this concept of "Privacy Lite" is a non-starter for us.... Thanks-- J. ____________ James Bladel GoDaddy On Oct 24, 2014, at 10:32 AM, Don Blumenthal <dblumenthal@pir.org<mailto:dblumenthal@pir.org>> wrote: I gave a presentation at this week's conference in Boston. It was a something of a 20 minute version of the ICANN All Things WHOIS program, although with fewer topics and a focus on details that were most likely to be of interest to the anti abuse community. Four people raised the same suggestion either before the session or during Q/A: Require providers to assign unique IDs to their customers so that we can identify the p/p registrations held by a given entity even if we don't know who is it. We can explore the idea or not, but I am certain that it will be suggested in public comments to our draft report. FWIW, the suggesters (word?) aren't affiliated and were an international group. Don _______________________________________________ Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg
Thanks, James. The first issue had occurred to me. The second hadn't, and I think it more significant because of the de facto disclose. Perhaps a publish in some circumstances. My thought is to focus on the issues that we have to address and catch up with this one later. Don From: James M. Bladel [mailto:jbladel@godaddy.com] Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 12:11 PM To: Don Blumenthal Cc: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] A very brief report f from M3AAWG Don and PPSAI Team: We have also explored this internally, and the short story is that it isn't acceptable to our customers. Especially those holding large portfolios of domains for investment, as it is too easy to cross-reference a Unique ID to compile the entire portfolio, which would otherwise be private. Similarly, if someone purchases a domain name from a P/P customer, then they immediately know the identity for all private domains associated with the same Unique ID. Happy to discuss further on our next call, especially if you believe it will come up again in Public Comments. But generally, this concept of "Privacy Lite" is a non-starter for us.... Thanks-- J. ____________ James Bladel GoDaddy On Oct 24, 2014, at 10:32 AM, Don Blumenthal <dblumenthal@pir.org<mailto:dblumenthal@pir.org>> wrote: I gave a presentation at this week's conference in Boston. It was a something of a 20 minute version of the ICANN All Things WHOIS program, although with fewer topics and a focus on details that were most likely to be of interest to the anti abuse community. Four people raised the same suggestion either before the session or during Q/A: Require providers to assign unique IDs to their customers so that we can identify the p/p registrations held by a given entity even if we don't know who is it. We can explore the idea or not, but I am certain that it will be suggested in public comments to our draft report. FWIW, the suggesters (word?) aren't affiliated and were an international group. Don _______________________________________________ Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg
Hi Don, would that be a unique ID per registration or per registrant? The first is easy and many already providers do this, the latter is very cumbersome. Best, Volker Am 24.10.2014 17:30, schrieb Don Blumenthal:
I gave a presentation at this week's conference in Boston. It was a something of a 20 minute version of the ICANN All Things WHOIS program, although with fewer topics and a focus on details that were most likely to be of interest to the anti abuse community.
Four people raised the same suggestion either before the session or during Q/A: Require providers to assign unique IDs to their customers so that we can identify the p/p registrations held by a given entity even if we don't know who is it.
We can explore the idea or not, but I am certain that it will be suggested in public comments to our draft report. FWIW, the suggesters (word?) aren't affiliated and were an international group.
Don
_______________________________________________ Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg
-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
Volker, A unique ID for each registrant like the one that Verisign posted with public registrant information in the old days. Don From: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Volker Greimann Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 12:21 PM To: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] A very brief report f from M3AAWG Hi Don, would that be a unique ID per registration or per registrant? The first is easy and many already providers do this, the latter is very cumbersome. Best, Volker Am 24.10.2014 17:30, schrieb Don Blumenthal: I gave a presentation at this week's conference in Boston. It was a something of a 20 minute version of the ICANN All Things WHOIS program, although with fewer topics and a focus on details that were most likely to be of interest to the anti abuse community. Four people raised the same suggestion either before the session or during Q/A: Require providers to assign unique IDs to their customers so that we can identify the p/p registrations held by a given entity even if we don't know who is it. We can explore the idea or not, but I am certain that it will be suggested in public comments to our draft report. FWIW, the suggesters (word?) aren't affiliated and were an international group. Don _______________________________________________ Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg -- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
Don, ICM (.XXX) has a membership token system, in which all domain name registrations need to be associated with a membership token. If a token is revoked, all domain names associated with that token are removed from the zone file. Best regards, Michael From: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Don Blumenthal Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 12:34 PM To: Volker Greimann; gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] A very brief report f from M3AAWG Volker, A unique ID for each registrant like the one that Verisign posted with public registrant information in the old days. Don From: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Volker Greimann Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 12:21 PM To: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] A very brief report f from M3AAWG Hi Don, would that be a unique ID per registration or per registrant? The first is easy and many already providers do this, the latter is very cumbersome. Best, Volker Am 24.10.2014 17:30, schrieb Don Blumenthal: I gave a presentation at this weeks conference in Boston. It was a something of a 20 minute version of the ICANN All Things WHOIS program, although with fewer topics and a focus on details that were most likely to be of interest to the anti abuse community. Four people raised the same suggestion either before the session or during Q/A: Require providers to assign unique IDs to their customers so that we can identify the p/p registrations held by a given entity even if we dont know who is it. We can explore the idea or not, but I am certain that it will be suggested in public comments to our draft report. FWIW, the suggesters (word?) arent affiliated and were an international group. Don _______________________________________________ Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg -- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net> Web: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.RRPproxy.net> www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.BrandShelter.com> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems> www.twitter.com/key_systems <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems> CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
Hey Don, The only purpose of that in all fairness is the harvesting of information and the requestors being able to then create their own internal DB of "number" = registrant, so for future requests if it is in the DB, rather than the due process, they can simply not deal with the PP provider. I am sure some PP providers will end up randomizing and changing the "ID" over and over again. Kind regards, Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Blumenthal" <dblumenthal@pir.org> To: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org Sent: Friday, 24 October, 2014 4:30:54 PM Subject: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] A very brief report f from M3AAWG I gave a presentation at this week’s conference in Boston. It was a something of a 20 minute version of the ICANN All Things WHOIS program, although with fewer topics and a focus on details that were most likely to be of interest to the anti abuse community. Four people raised the same suggestion either before the session or during Q/A: Require providers to assign unique IDs to their customers so that we can identify the p/p registrations held by a given entity even if we don’t know who is it. We can explore the idea or not, but I am certain that it will be suggested in public comments to our draft report. FWIW, the suggesters (word?) aren’t affiliated and were an international group. Don _______________________________________________ Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg
Actually if you expressly state on whois that the IDs are randomized daily it would not make a jot of difference. As the requester would still have to provide the domain name, and to the PP provider thats really all they need to assist the requester. The IDs then could not be used for any harvesting. I agree with James in that it would be wrong for a domainer with a large portfolio to be able to be identified in this way - lets be honest that the point of the PP service. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Blumenthal" <dblumenthal@pir.org> To: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org Sent: Friday, 24 October, 2014 4:30:54 PM Subject: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] A very brief report f from M3AAWG I gave a presentation at this week’s conference in Boston. It was a something of a 20 minute version of the ICANN All Things WHOIS program, although with fewer topics and a focus on details that were most likely to be of interest to the anti abuse community. Four people raised the same suggestion either before the session or during Q/A: Require providers to assign unique IDs to their customers so that we can identify the p/p registrations held by a given entity even if we don’t know who is it. We can explore the idea or not, but I am certain that it will be suggested in public comments to our draft report. FWIW, the suggesters (word?) aren’t affiliated and were an international group. Don _______________________________________________ Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg
FWIW and in context of RDDS, the EWG proposed a unique ID for registrants shorn of the personal data. -Carlton ============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 *Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround* ============================= On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 10:30 AM, Don Blumenthal <dblumenthal@pir.org> wrote:
I gave a presentation at this week’s conference in Boston. It was a something of a 20 minute version of the ICANN All Things WHOIS program, although with fewer topics and a focus on details that were most likely to be of interest to the anti abuse community.
Four people raised the same suggestion either before the session or during Q/A: Require providers to assign unique IDs to their customers so that we can identify the p/p registrations held by a given entity even if we don’t know who is it.
We can explore the idea or not, but I am certain that it will be suggested in public comments to our draft report. FWIW, the suggesters (word?) aren’t affiliated and were an international group.
Don
_______________________________________________ Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg
participants (6)
-
Carlton Samuels -
Chris Pelling -
Don Blumenthal -
James M. Bladel -
Michael D. Palage -
Volker Greimann