- Internal-cg - lists.icann.org

Re: [Internal-cg] ICG FAQ ..
by Joe Alhadeff Oct. 1, 2014

Oct. 1, 2014

There are two questions related to accountability. One is within the processes of IANA and then the overall ICANN accountability. We certainly need to have an opinion on the former, and to the extent that the the NTIA transition is replaced by some the ICANN accountability mechanism, then it should not be out of bounds for us to have an opinion as it may impact the overall oversight/accountability of the IANA accountability functions. ----- Original Message ----- From: housley(a)vigilsec.com To: internal-cg(a)icann.org Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 6:06:34 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [Internal-cg] ICG FAQ .. I have two concerns. Q4: I do not like defining IANA is this way. It makes it seem that IANA would not exist if not for the contract. Clearly, we want it to continue when the contract goes away, and some IANA functions are completely outside the contract. For example, the IANA role in the Timezone Database is completely outside the contract. I realize the definition includes "other" functions, but think we want to avoid using the contract as a means of defining IANA. Q14: If the ICANN community comes to consensus on a plan that includes accountability mechanisms, who is the ICG to "conduct an analysis of their overall implications for ICANN accountability?" I have a real problem saying that ICG will do this. The ICANN community needs to say whether the accountability mechanisms are sufficient, not the ICG. Making sure there are not gaps between the proposals is a different matter, but that is not what the current text says. Russ _______________________________________________ Internal-cg mailing list Internal-cg(a)icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg

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Re: [Internal-cg] ICG FAQ ..
by Joe Alhadeff Oct. 1, 2014

Oct. 1, 2014

I was providing these as examples of better, more coherent definitions. I have never liked citing to Wikipedia as the authoritative definition... I would also caution how exhaustive our definitions should be. ----- Original Message ----- From: narelle.clark(a)accan.org.au To: paf(a)frobbit.se, kuoweiwu(a)gmail.com Cc: internal-cg(a)icann.org Sent: Wednesday, October 1, 2014 2:50:54 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [Internal-cg] ICG FAQ .. I hesitate to say that it is often best to point to an authoritative source for definitions, rather than come up with one's own. It may be safer and easier to do that here, ie point to a full definition elsewhere and have the shortest, most succinct version on our FAQ we can. Narelle > -----Original Message----- > From: internal-cg-bounces(a)icann.org [mailto:internal-cg-bounces@icann.org] > On Behalf Of Patrik Fältström > Sent: Wednesday, 1 October 2014 2:23 PM > To: Wu Kuo-Wei > Cc: internal-cg(a)icann.org > Subject: Re: [Internal-cg] ICG FAQ .. > > In general, if people want questions and/or answers added to the FAQ, please > do type and do send text. Not until people do so we can discuss whether it is to > be added. > > Personally, I do not think we need to add definitions. It adds to the confusion. > > Specifically terms like "The IANA Database" that I honestly have no idea what it > is. > > The important thing is for whoever is sending things *to* us makes clear what > they mean with whatever terminology they use. > > Patrik > > On 1 okt 2014, at 06:01, Wu Kuo-Wei <kuoweiwu(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > I will suggest to describe all about IANA function (provide NTIA’s contract and > other for “complete” information). > > > > Kuo Wu > > > > Keith Davidson <keith(a)internetnz.net.nz> 於 2014/10/1 9:13 寫道： > > > >> I would go further, and suggest we should have working definitions for: > >> > >> The IANA Function > >> The IANA Database > >> The IANA Operator (or IANA Functions Operator) > >> > >> Cheers > >> > >> Keith > >> > >> On 1/10/2014 3:02 a.m., joseph alhadeff wrote: > >>> I think our IANA definition is confusing. IANA is an acronym that > >>> should be included in the definmtion and then we should describe > >>> functions that fall under that work. I looked at some definitions > >>> from What Is and Wikipedia which i attach... > >>> On 9/30/2014 9:06 AM, Milton L Mueller wrote: > >>>> > >>>> *From:* Manal Ismail [mailto:manal@tra.gov.eg] > >>>> > >>>> [MI]: Noted .. will add it to the new version that is to be > >>>> circulated shortly .. Although, personally, I would be reluctant to > >>>> leave the last sentence "But the ICG cannot give these objections > >>>> any weight if the person made no effort to participate in the > >>>> operational community-convened process." .. I think it's a bit > >>>> negative and I don't think it adds .. > >>>> > >>>> JPerhaps it does sound a bit negative, but I don’t want people to > >>>> get the (wrong) idea that they can short-circuit the process and > >>>> appeal to us to get their ideas implemented. Can you think of a > >>>> better way to phrase it? > >>>> > >>>> Milton L. Mueller > >>>> > >>>> Laura J. and L. Douglas Meredith Professor > >>>> > >>>> Syracuse University School of Information Studies > >>>> > >>>> http://faculty.ischool.syr.edu/mueller/mueller/Home.html > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Internal-cg mailing list > >>>> Internal-cg(a)icann.org > >>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Internal-cg mailing list > >>> Internal-cg(a)icann.org > >>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Internal-cg mailing list > >> Internal-cg(a)icann.org > >> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Internal-cg mailing list > > Internal-cg(a)icann.org > > https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg _______________________________________________ Internal-cg mailing list Internal-cg(a)icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg

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ICG FAQ ..
by Manal Ismail Oct. 1, 2014

Oct. 1, 2014

Dear All .. Please find attached, and in dropbox, a draft FAQ we (Martin, Patrik, Mohamed, Alissa & myself) have prepared to be discussed on the upcoming call .. This is supposed to be a living document .. So the target is to come up with an initial agreed version rather than an exhaustive complete one .. Looking forward to receiving your feedback over email and/or during the call .. Kind Regards --Manal

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Re: [Internal-cg] ICG FAQ ..
by WUKnoben Oct. 1, 2014

Oct. 1, 2014

Following our call today I have inserted my comments in the text (see attached). Best regards Wolf-Ulrich From: WUKnoben Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 11:43 PM To: Manal Ismail Cc: Coordination Group Subject: Re: [Internal-cg] ICG FAQ .. Thanks Manal and the other colleagues having prepared this draft. My comments: Q#2: “direct” and “indirect” stakeholders should be explained; maybe “direct stakeholders have an operational relationship to the IANA functions operator”. Q#91/2: I think this should be phrased more firm rather than discussing options the ICG might have or not (...all the ICG can do...). Agree with Manal that we shall express what we shall do rather than what we cannot. Q#14: here we definitely lock our timeline with the results of the ICANN enhanced accountability process. This could be a long lasting story. Will this serve as excuse for not meeting the deadline Sep 2015? Best regards Wolf-Ulrich From: Manal Ismail Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:33 PM To: Kavouss Arasteh ; Alissa Cooper ; Patrik Fältström ; Mohamed El Bashir Cc: Coordination Group Subject: Re: [Internal-cg] ICG FAQ .. Dear Mr. Arasteh .. Allow me to re-iterate my reply to you regarding your very important questions .. “I believe the excellent points you raise below should be addressed through the proposals we are expecting to receive .. I do not think we should pre-empt what the community will ultimately reach and express views through this FAQ ..” In other words, those questions will be answered in the proposals submitted to the ICG .. Looking forward to receiving your reply to the above .. I’m sure there are ICG members more capable of replying to your points on IANA .. Kind Regards --Manal From: Kavouss Arasteh [mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 8:20 PM To: Manal Ismail; Alissa Cooper; Patrik Fältström; Mohamed El Bashir Cc: Milton L Mueller; Martin Boyle; Coordination Group Subject: Re: [Internal-cg] ICG FAQ .. Manal Alissa,Patrik,mohamed Others I disagree with Patrik that I should draft questions for the points that I raised Alissia decided to assign the prepartion of FAQ to Manal and Martin AND THEN WE RECEIVED THE DRAFR PREPARED. Now I have made three rounds of questions .those who were assighned/ designated to prepare the draft of FAQ are kindly requested to put my points in the propoer questions usuing the style that was utilized before. I am awaiting for these very important questions to be answered Moreover ,pls clarify what do you mean by " I do not disagree that the IANA Department at ICANN does more than the contract with NTIA describes. What the ICG is discussing is replacing the stewardship by NTIA for the IANA functions that the NTIA oversees. The functions that NTIA oversees are described in the contract and those are the only activities done by the IANA department that have oversight by NTIA. Any other, non-contractual activities of the IANA department which may be described in SAC-067 have no contractual relationship with NTIA and it stewardship" . 1 Please advise what what are the actions that IANA Department at ICANN does more than the contract with NTIA : 2Please also describe what are the IANA functions that NTIA oversight ?Please cut and paste them from the contract as during the PUBLIC MEETING we could not refer to the contract as many people may not know that 3,After transition who will oversight those actions? 4. What are those other, non-contractual activities of the IANA department which may be described in SAC-067 have no contractual relationship with NTIA and it stewardship"? 5. After transition who will perform that : Regards Kavouss . 2014-09-30 19:36 GMT+02:00 Manal Ismail <manal(a)tra.gov.eg>: From: Milton L Mueller [mailto:mueller@syr.edu] From: Martin Boyle [mailto:Martin.Boyle@nominet.org.uk] For Q15, Manal is right about running behind the moving train. But I now realise that the answer is very ICANN centric! In part this is corrected in the next question, but I would suggest that this question should look at the operational communities and those directly engaged with them (GAC, ALAC...), while the next question could then refer to addressing those who do not take part, but will be affected - the business community, ccTLDs that are not in ICANN etc MM: It seems then that the “real” answer to this question is that the Operational communities themselves should play a major role in the outreach to relevant non-ICANN communities MI: I fully agree .. and that’s why I suggested to add “Inclusiveness/Outreach – check the level of inclusiveness and outreach of the provided process” to the criteria of individual proposals assessment, to make sure the Operational communities considers this seriously and play an active/proactive role in outreach .. _______________________________________________ Internal-cg mailing list Internal-cg(a)icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Internal-cg mailing list Internal-cg(a)icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg

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Call # 5 - Roll Call
by Alice Jansen Oct. 1, 2014

Oct. 1, 2014

Dear ICG Members, Please flag any inconsistencies you may notice (off list). We will share call archives as soon as available. Thanks! Best regards Alice ICG Members: Adiel Akplogan (NRO) Kavouss Arasteh (GAC) Jari Arkko (IETF) James Bladel (GNSO) Martin Boyle (ccNSO) Narelle Clark (ISOC) Alissa Cooper (IETF) Keith Davidson (ccNSO) Jandyr Dos Santos (GAC) Heather Dryden (GAC) Patrik Fältström (SSAC) Demi Getschko (ISOC) Hartmut Glaser (ASO) Russ Housley (IAB) Manal Ismail (GAC) Wolf-Ulrich Knoben (GNSO) Xiaodong Lee (ccNSO) Milton Mueller (GNSO) Russ Mundy (SSAC) Jon Nevett (gTLD Registries) Michael Niebel (GAC) Lynn St Amour (IAB) Jean-Jacques Subrenat (ALAC) Mary Uduma (ccNSO) Liaisons: Kuo-Wei Wu (Board Liaison) Apologies ICG: Joseph Alhadeff (ICC-BASIS) Mohamed El Bashir (ALAC) Keith Drazek (gTLD Registries) Elise Gerich (IANA staff Expert Liaison) Daniel Karrenberg (RSSAC) Lars-Johan Liman (RSSAC) Paul Wilson (NRO) Support: Samantha Dickinson Alice Jansen Ergys Ramaj Apologies Support: Hillary Jett Theresa Swinehart

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Draft list of action items and decisions from 1 October teleconference for ICG review
by Samantha Dickinson Oct. 1, 2014

Oct. 1, 2014

Actions: Below is a list of the draft action items and decision from today's teleconference for the review of ICG members: 1. Jansen to publish minutes of 17 September teleconference on website 2. Cooper to leave discussion on ICG-related events at ICANN 51 open on the internal-cg mailing list for a couple more days to enable ICG members to add anything else they think should be on the list or should be modified on the existing list. 3. Clark to submit edits to the answer to the ICG FAQ question 1, “What is the ICG” as well as a possible question and placeholder answer about the definition of “global multistakeholder community” 4. Contents of Question 2.5 of FAQ, on ICG Secretariat, to be resolved on the mailing list, perhaps by refocusing it to be about the independence of the ICG itself. 5. Ismail to work on a second formulation of Question 3 of the FAQ based on feedback from Mueller, Subrenat and Bladel. 6. Discussion about remainder of FAQ, from Question 4 onward, to be discussed by the ICG on the mailing list. Decision: 1. ICG to publish a version of the ICG FAQ online before ICANN 51, making it clear that it is a living document. -- Samantha Dickinson Internet governance consultant & writer Lingua Synaptica

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REMINDER - 1 October - ICG Call #5
by Alice Jansen Oct. 1, 2014

Oct. 1, 2014

Dear ICG Members, This is to kindly remind you that your ICG call #5 is scheduled for: **Wednesday, 1 October** at 04:00-05:00 UTC See timezone conversion at: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=ICG+Call+%235&iso=… Note that an announcement was published on the ICANN website yesterday and may be found at: https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2014-09-22-en Call details were emailed to you in off-list notifications. You should also have received an outlook calendar invite which includes the call details. In you cannot find them, please send me an email (off-list) and I will make sure to send you a copy prior to the call. Documents will be projected in the virtual meeting room - https://icann.adobeconnect.com/icg. To avoid echo, please make sure to mute your computer speakers as live audio from the meeting is being broadcast from the virtual meeting room. If you plan to use Skype to join the bridge, see attached instructions on how to mute the virtual meeting room. Note that the virtual meeting room will also be used to monitor the queue. To join the queue, press the "raise your hand" icon in the Adobe Connect room: [cid:3364EF36-9D4D-489F-A6D3-131BC32AE69B] If you are not in a position to join the virtual meeting room today, please let me know. Should you wish to follow the meeting in a different language, please note that AR, ES, FR, RU, ZH and PT interpretation services are available for this call. Note, however, that as indicated in the call details, the FR booth will interpret from English into French only. The agenda circulated by Alissa will be available in the virtual meeting room: * Minutes approval for Sept 17 call - https://www.dropbox.com/sh/7x5poce3wb8ffsv/AACVxjRGvva_U15ix7dl4I-ia/Minute… * Review ICANN 51 schedule and logistics - https://www.dropbox.com/sh/7x5poce3wb8ffsv/AAAaLTRA8tOApp7SlA_t0fKaa/ICANN5… * Discussion of FAQ - https://www.dropbox.com/sh/7x5poce3wb8ffsv/AABQYGtLVj8PvlG9NkX0T87wa/FAQ/IC… We would be very grateful if you could also state your name when speaking as the call will be recorded, transcribed and interpreted. As always, please do not hesitate to contact me should you have any questions or concerns. Thanks, Best regards Alice

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Re: [Internal-cg] ICG FAQ ..
by Manal Ismail Sept. 30, 2014

Sept. 30, 2014

Fair enough J .. Let's consider this on the call .. Kind Regards --Manal From: internal-cg-bounces(a)icann.org [mailto:internal-cg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Milton L Mueller Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 10:09 PM To: internal-cg(a)icann.org Subject: Re: [Internal-cg] ICG FAQ .. First one sounds good to me. If you want to avoid negativity, saying "this will be possible..." sounds better than "this won't be possible..." ;-) From: Manal Ismail [mailto:manal@tra.gov.eg] Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 1:19 PM To: Milton L Mueller; internal-cg(a)icann.org Subject: RE: ICG FAQ .. From: Milton L Mueller [mailto:mueller@syr.edu] From: Manal Ismail [mailto:manal@tra.gov.eg] [MI]: Noted .. will add it to the new version that is to be circulated shortly .. Although, personally, I would be reluctant to leave the last sentence "But the ICG cannot give these objections any weight if the person made no effort to participate in the operational community-convened process." .. I think it's a bit negative and I don't think it adds .. J Perhaps it does sound a bit negative, but I don't want people to get the (wrong) idea that they can short-circuit the process and appeal to us to get their ideas implemented. Can you think of a better way to phrase it? [MI]: J .. Does any of the following work? - "If you think your ideas have been ignored or not fairly treated in the OC proposal development process, you can express this view directly to the ICG or in the public comment period. But, of course, this will be possible only if you have already participated in the relevant operational community-convened process." or - "If you think your ideas have been ignored or not fairly treated in the OC proposal development process, you can express this view directly to the ICG or in the public comment period. But, of course, this won't be possible unless you have already participated in the relevant operational community-convened process. " Milton L. Mueller Laura J. and L. Douglas Meredith Professor Syracuse University School of Information Studies http://faculty.ischool.syr.edu/mueller/mueller/Home.html <http://faculty.ischool.syr.edu/mueller/mueller/Home.html>

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Re: [Internal-cg] worth noting
by Alissa Cooper Sept. 30, 2014

Sept. 30, 2014

Hi Milton, On 9/29/14, 7:00 AM, "Milton L Mueller" <mueller(a)syr.edu> wrote: >I've made some inquiries about this. Apparently the problem is more one >of perception. The CWG made the rather stupid mistake of calling >participants on the email discussion list "observers" rather than >"participants." > >This was an unfortunate choice of words, given that in the CWG consensus >calls are supposed to be based on the email list participants' views. >Only when there is no consensus things will go to the more restricted >"working group" members for a vote. Do you expect there to be further clarification from the CWG on this point? Thanks, Alissa > > >--MM > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: internal-cg-bounces(a)icann.org [mailto:internal-cg- >> bounces(a)icann.org] On Behalf Of Milton L Mueller >> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 9:25 AM >> To: internal-cg(a)icann.org >> Subject: [Internal-cg] worth noting >> >> A complaint has been filed against the names community's working >> group. >> http://forum.icann.org/lists/icg-forum/msg00011.html >> >> Alissa made some similar comments on the IETF ianaplan list. Although >> I have publicly explained why they set it up that way, frankly I find >>the >> CWG Structure hard to defend. I wonder whether others more closely >> involved with the IANA CWG chartering process could explain whether >> it is possible to make some amendments. The group is slow enough to >> form as it is, I tremble at the thought of amendments that would lead >> to further delays, but it might actually save time if it prevents >> challenges to its legitimacy further down the road. >> >> Milton L. Mueller >> Laura J. and L. Douglas Meredith Professor Syracuse University School >> of Information Studies >> http://faculty.ischool.syr.edu/mueller/mueller/Home.html >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Internal-cg mailing list >> Internal-cg(a)icann.org >> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg >_______________________________________________ >Internal-cg mailing list >Internal-cg(a)icann.org >https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg

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Re: [Internal-cg] Provisional ICANN 51 schedule
by Alissa Cooper Sept. 30, 2014

Sept. 30, 2014

Minor updates are below. We will discuss this briefly on the Oct 1 call. Meeting with ALAC Tuesday, 14 October 15:45-16:45 PT Room: Olympic https://community.icann.org/x/TMLhAg http://la51.icann.org/en/schedule/tue-alac-work-ii Speakers: Alissa (ICG intro), TBD (numbers), Martin (names), Jari/Russ H. (protocol parameters) All other available ICG members welcome Meeting with GAC Wednesday, 15 October 10:30-11:30 PT Location TBC Speakers: Alissa (ICG intro), Adiel (numbers), Martin/Milton (names), Jari/Russ H. (protocol parameters) All other available ICG members welcome Community Discussion with the ICG Thursday, 16 October 10:00-12:00 PT Room: Los Angeles http://la51.icann.org/en/schedule/thu-icg-community Agenda discussion: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/internal-cg/2014-September/001744.html ICG Dinner Thursday, 16 October 20:15-22:00 PT Location TBC ICG Mtg #3 [2] Friday, 17 October 09:00-17:30 PT Room: Westside http://la51.icann.org/en/schedule/fri-icg Patrik, Mohamed, and I will share a draft agenda for this meeting prior to the start of ICANN 51. On 9/25/14, 10:56 AM, "Alissa Cooper" <alissa(a)cooperw.in> wrote: >Here is the provisional schedule for ICANN 51: > >Meeting with ALAC [1] >Tuesday, 14 October 15:45-16:45 PT >Room: Olympic > >https://community.icann.org/x/TMLhAg > >http://la51.icann.org/en/schedule/tue-alac-work-ii > > >(Unconfirmed) Meeting with GAC [1] >Wednesday, 15 October 10:30-11:30 PT >Location TBC > >Community Discussion with the ICG [2] >Thursday, 16 October 10:00-12:00 PT >Room: Los Angeles >http://la51.icann.org/en/schedule/thu-icg-community > >ICG Dinner >Thursday, 16 October 20:15-22:00 PT >Location TBC > >ICG Mtg #3 [3] >Friday, 17 October 09:00-17:30 PT >Room: Westside >http://la51.icann.org/en/schedule/fri-icg > >[1] I have reached out individually to ICG members off-list to ensure that >we have people at each of these meetings who can speak about the processes >being used to develop the names, numbers, and protocol parameters >proposals, respectively, and how to participate in those processes. >Participation from the rest of the ICG members is desirable but not >required if you have scheduling conflicts. I have also reached out to CWG >folks to see if a CWG-ICG meeting might be arranged and will share more >information when I have it. > >[2] Patrik is working on the agenda for this session. > >[3] Patrik, Mohamed, and I will share a draft agenda for this meeting >prior to the start of ICANN 51. > >Alissa > > >_______________________________________________ >Internal-cg mailing list >Internal-cg(a)icann.org >https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg

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