And yet, in our previous work, we considered high visual similarity in a significant number of fonts in workmark to be sufficient cause to consider something a variant. So are you arguing for changing our criteria? Bill Jouris Inside Products bill.jouris@insidethestack.com 831-659-8360 925-855-9512 (direct) From: "Tan Tanaka, Dennis via Latingp" <latingp@icann.org> To: "Michael.Bauland@knipp.de" <Michael.Bauland@knipp.de>; "latingp@icann.org" <latingp@icann.org> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2019 12:54 PM Subject: Re: [Latingp] AE, OE, and Ligatures #yiv1214043876 #yiv1214043876 -- _filtered #yiv1214043876 {font-family:Courier;panose-1:2 0 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;} _filtered #yiv1214043876 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv1214043876 {font-family:DengXian;panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;} _filtered #yiv1214043876 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv1214043876 {panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;} _filtered #yiv1214043876 {font-family:Times;panose-1:2 0 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}#yiv1214043876 #yiv1214043876 p.yiv1214043876MsoNormal, #yiv1214043876 li.yiv1214043876MsoNormal, #yiv1214043876 div.yiv1214043876MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;}#yiv1214043876 a:link, #yiv1214043876 span.yiv1214043876MsoHyperlink {color:#0563C1;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv1214043876 a:visited, #yiv1214043876 span.yiv1214043876MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:#954F72;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv1214043876 p.yiv1214043876MsoPlainText, #yiv1214043876 li.yiv1214043876MsoPlainText, #yiv1214043876 div.yiv1214043876MsoPlainText {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;}#yiv1214043876 span.yiv1214043876PlainTextChar {font-family:sans-serif;}#yiv1214043876 .yiv1214043876MsoChpDefault {font-family:sans-serif;} _filtered #yiv1214043876 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv1214043876 div.yiv1214043876WordSection1 {}#yiv1214043876 Looking again at the visual evidence, I believe this is not a strong case for variants. But it may be a candidate for visual similarity. From a visual standpoint I don’t see it as a clear-cut case. Doing a comparison of the code points "æ" "œ" using wordmark.it, the great majority of fonts show them very distinguishable (e.g.Arial: æ œ, Times: æ œ, Courier: æ œ, Calibri: æ œ). From an orthography viewpoint, I don’t see good support, but of course, this is onlyone data point. -Dennis On 2/11/19, 9:16 AM, "Latingp on behalf of Michael Bauland" <latingp-bounces@icann.org on behalf of Michael.Bauland@knipp.de> wrote: Hi Bill, thanks for the summary. I agree with you if purely looking at the visual confusability issue. However, with ae vs. æ and oe vs. œ the issue is not about visual sameness, at least that's what the IP argued on our phone call. They said that in most languages ae and æ have the same meaning and could be exchanged. I can only talk for German, and there it might be ok to write ae instead of the ligature but certainly not the other way round. But to be honest, I personally never used such a word in German. Therefore the reason to make ae and its ligature variants would be purely semantic. And then we have a problem: how to decide which variant relation is stronger? If all are visual, it's (more or less) easy to decide which visual similarity is stronger, but there's no metric to compare visual and semantic similarities with each other. Cheers, Michael -- ____________________________________________________________________ | | | knipp | Knipp Medien und Kommunikation GmbH ------- Technologiepark Martin-Schmeisser-Weg 9 44227 Dortmund Germany Dipl.-Informatiker Fon: +49 231 9703-0 Fax: +49 231 9703-200 Dr. Michael Bauland SIP: Michael.Bauland@knipp.de Software Development E-mail: Michael.Bauland@knipp.de Register Court: Amtsgericht Dortmund, HRB 13728 Chief Executive Officers: Dietmar Knipp, Elmar Knipp _______________________________________________ Latingp mailing list Latingp@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/latingp _______________________________________________ Latingp mailing list Latingp@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/latingp