U+00DF LATIN SMALL LETTER SHARP S
I think it should be LATIN SMALL LETTER SHARP S. See https://codepoints.net/U+00DF and https://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U0080.pdf (page 4) Mats -- --- Mats Dufberg mats.dufberg@internetstiftelsen.se Technical Expert Internetstiftelsen (The Swedish Internet Foundation) Mobile: +46 73 065 3899 https://internetstiftelsen.se/
If so, we will need to go thru the whole document and change it. Because I believe we generally used just "Latin Letter Sharp S". But perhaps the German speakers can comment on how the Sharp S is viewed by those who actually use it. Bill Jouris Inside Products bill.jouris@insidethestack.com 831-659-8360 925-855-9512 (direct) On Thursday, July 29, 2021, 10:05:30 AM PDT, Mats Dufberg via Latingp <latingp@icann.org> wrote: <!--#yiv9523883657 _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered {}#yiv9523883657 #yiv9523883657 p.yiv9523883657MsoNormal, #yiv9523883657 li.yiv9523883657MsoNormal, #yiv9523883657 div.yiv9523883657MsoNormal {margin:0cm;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif;}#yiv9523883657 a:link, #yiv9523883657 span.yiv9523883657MsoHyperlink {color:#0563C1;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv9523883657 span.yiv9523883657EmailStyle17 {font-family:"Courier New";color:windowtext;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none none;}#yiv9523883657 .yiv9523883657MsoChpDefault {} _filtered {}#yiv9523883657 div.yiv9523883657WordSection1 {}--> I think it should be LATIN SMALL LETTER SHARP S. Seehttps://codepoints.net/U+00DF and https://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U0080.pdf (page 4) Mats -- --- Mats Dufberg mats.dufberg@internetstiftelsen.se Technical Expert Internetstiftelsen (The Swedish Internet Foundation) Mobile: +46 73 065 3899 https://internetstiftelsen.se/ _______________________________________________ Latingp mailing list Latingp@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/latingp _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
I searched through the main document. Either it is referred to as "Latin Small Letter Sharp S" (10 times, 1 time in upper case) or "Sharp S" (14 times). I cannot find any "Latin Letter Sharp S". In appendix D.5 all three variants are used. There we should replace "Latin Letter Sharp S" with "Latin Small Letter Sharp S" to be consistent. In running text where the name is used several times it should be OK with the shorter "Sharp S". Mats -- --- Mats Dufberg mats.dufberg@internetstiftelsen.se Technical Expert Internetstiftelsen (The Swedish Internet Foundation) Mobile: +46 73 065 3899 https://internetstiftelsen.se/ From: Bill Jouris <bill.jouris@insidethestack.com> Reply to: Bill Jouris <bill.jouris@insidethestack.com> Date: Thursday, 29 July 2021 at 19:09 To: ICANN Latin GP <latingp@icann.org>, Mats Dufberg <mats.dufberg@internetstiftelsen.se> Subject: Re: [Latingp] U+00DF LATIN SMALL LETTER SHARP S If so, we will need to go thru the whole document and change it. Because I believe we generally used just "Latin Letter Sharp S". But perhaps the German speakers can comment on how the Sharp S is viewed by those who actually use it. Bill Jouris Inside Products bill.jouris@insidethestack.com 831-659-8360 925-855-9512 (direct) On Thursday, July 29, 2021, 10:05:30 AM PDT, Mats Dufberg via Latingp <latingp@icann.org> wrote: I think it should be LATIN SMALL LETTER SHARP S. See https://codepoints.net/U+00DF and https://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U0080.pdf (page 4) Mats -- --- Mats Dufberg mats.dufberg@internetstiftelsen.se Technical Expert Internetstiftelsen (The Swedish Internet Foundation) Mobile: +46 73 065 3899 https://internetstiftelsen.se/ _______________________________________________ Latingp mailing list Latingp@icann.org<mailto:Latingp@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/latingp _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
In the main document nothing needs to be updated. In the appendix D.5 some instances needs to be corrected. I have in those cases added "Small" a proposed edit. -- --- Mats Dufberg mats.dufberg@internetstiftelsen.se Technical Expert Internetstiftelsen (The Swedish Internet Foundation) Mobile: +46 73 065 3899 https://internetstiftelsen.se/ From: Latingp <latingp-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of ICANN Latin GP <latingp@icann.org> Reply to: Mats Dufberg <mats.dufberg@internetstiftelsen.se> Date: Thursday, 29 July 2021 at 22:20 To: Bill Jouris <bill.jouris@insidethestack.com>, ICANN Latin GP <latingp@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Latingp] U+00DF LATIN SMALL LETTER SHARP S I searched through the main document. Either it is referred to as "Latin Small Letter Sharp S" (10 times, 1 time in upper case) or "Sharp S" (14 times). I cannot find any "Latin Letter Sharp S". In appendix D.5 all three variants are used. There we should replace "Latin Letter Sharp S" with "Latin Small Letter Sharp S" to be consistent. In running text where the name is used several times it should be OK with the shorter "Sharp S". Mats -- --- Mats Dufberg mats.dufberg@internetstiftelsen.se Technical Expert Internetstiftelsen (The Swedish Internet Foundation) Mobile: +46 73 065 3899 https://internetstiftelsen.se/ From: Bill Jouris <bill.jouris@insidethestack.com> Reply to: Bill Jouris <bill.jouris@insidethestack.com> Date: Thursday, 29 July 2021 at 19:09 To: ICANN Latin GP <latingp@icann.org>, Mats Dufberg <mats.dufberg@internetstiftelsen.se> Subject: Re: [Latingp] U+00DF LATIN SMALL LETTER SHARP S If so, we will need to go thru the whole document and change it. Because I believe we generally used just "Latin Letter Sharp S". But perhaps the German speakers can comment on how the Sharp S is viewed by those who actually use it. Bill Jouris Inside Products bill.jouris@insidethestack.com 831-659-8360 925-855-9512 (direct) On Thursday, July 29, 2021, 10:05:30 AM PDT, Mats Dufberg via Latingp <latingp@icann.org> wrote: I think it should be LATIN SMALL LETTER SHARP S. See https://codepoints.net/U+00DF and https://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U0080.pdf (page 4) Mats -- --- Mats Dufberg mats.dufberg@internetstiftelsen.se Technical Expert Internetstiftelsen (The Swedish Internet Foundation) Mobile: +46 73 065 3899 https://internetstiftelsen.se/ _______________________________________________ Latingp mailing list Latingp@icann.org<mailto:Latingp@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/latingp _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
"Traditionally, ⟨ß⟩ did not have a capital form, although some type designers introduced de facto capitalized variants. In 2017, the Council for German Orthography officially adopted a capital, ⟨ẞ⟩, into German orthography, ending a long orthographic debate.[3] ⟨ß⟩ was encoded by ECMA-94 (1985) at position 223 (hexadecimal DF), inherited by Latin-1 and Unicode (U+00DF ß LATIN SMALL LETTER SHARP S).[4] The HTML entity ß was introduced with HTML 2.0 (1995). The capital (U+1E9E ẞ LATIN CAPITAL LETTER SHARP S) was encoded by ISO 10646 in 2008." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9F Best, Meikal Am 30. Juli 2021, 00:38 +0200 schrieb Hazem Hezzah via Latingp <latingp@icann.org>:
Seems that I made this confusion by suggesting to name it “Sharp S” only. As far as I know there is no Capital Sharp S. In the Unicode Standard that Mats sent there is no Capital Sharp S mentioned. In the other document it is called “Small Letter Sharp S”, but in the rest of the document only “Sharp S”
Let’s hear Meikal and Michael’s opinion.
Reagrds, Hazem Hezzah
From: Mats Dufberg via Latingp Sent: 29 July 2021 23:41 To: ICANN Latin GP Subject: Re: [Latingp] U+00DF LATIN SMALL LETTER SHARP S
In the main document nothing needs to be updated. In the appendix D.5 some instances needs to be corrected. I have in those cases added "Small" a proposed edit.
-- --- Mats Dufberg mats.dufberg@internetstiftelsen.se Technical Expert Internetstiftelsen (The Swedish Internet Foundation) Mobile: +46 73 065 3899 https://internetstiftelsen.se/
From: Latingp <latingp-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of ICANN Latin GP <latingp@icann.org> Reply to: Mats Dufberg <mats.dufberg@internetstiftelsen.se> Date: Thursday, 29 July 2021 at 22:20 To: Bill Jouris <bill.jouris@insidethestack.com>, ICANN Latin GP <latingp@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Latingp] U+00DF LATIN SMALL LETTER SHARP S
I searched through the main document. Either it is referred to as "Latin Small Letter Sharp S" (10 times, 1 time in upper case) or "Sharp S" (14 times). I cannot find any "Latin Letter Sharp S". In appendix D.5 all three variants are used. There we should replace "Latin Letter Sharp S" with "Latin Small Letter Sharp S" to be consistent. In running text where the name is used several times it should be OK with the shorter "Sharp S".
Mats
-- --- Mats Dufberg mats.dufberg@internetstiftelsen.se Technical Expert Internetstiftelsen (The Swedish Internet Foundation) Mobile: +46 73 065 3899 https://internetstiftelsen.se/
From: Bill Jouris <bill.jouris@insidethestack.com> Reply to: Bill Jouris <bill.jouris@insidethestack.com> Date: Thursday, 29 July 2021 at 19:09 To: ICANN Latin GP <latingp@icann.org>, Mats Dufberg <mats.dufberg@internetstiftelsen.se> Subject: Re: [Latingp] U+00DF LATIN SMALL LETTER SHARP S
If so, we will need to go thru the whole document and change it. Because I believe we generally used just "Latin Letter Sharp S".
But perhaps the German speakers can comment on how the Sharp S is viewed by those who actually use it.
Bill Jouris Inside Products bill.jouris@insidethestack.com 831-659-8360 925-855-9512 (direct)
On Thursday, July 29, 2021, 10:05:30 AM PDT, Mats Dufberg via Latingp <latingp@icann.org> wrote:
I think it should be LATIN SMALL LETTER SHARP S. See https://codepoints.net/U+00DF and https://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U0080.pdf (page 4)
Mats
-- --- Mats Dufberg mats.dufberg@internetstiftelsen.se Technical Expert Internetstiftelsen (The Swedish Internet Foundation) Mobile: +46 73 065 3899 https://internetstiftelsen.se/
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Hi all, sorry for the late reply, I took a day off on Friday. Yes, there is a capital sharp s, but it's basically just for stylistic purposes (e.g., when you want to write a word all-caps in a headline). The letter is very seldom used and many Germans don't even know it exists. Also, you cannot simply use it on a regular keyboard (Shift + ß leads to the question mark). So you need some extensive knowledge to actually being able to type it. So basically, I agree with Mats. Whenever we use the official code point name, we have to use "LATIN SMALL LETTER SHARP S" (in all-caps). Whenever we just refer to the letter, there is no need to clarify we're talking about the small version, we can simply write "Sharp S". Cheers, Michael -- ____________________________________________________________________ | | | knipp | Knipp Medien und Kommunikation GmbH ------- Technologiepark Martin-Schmeisser-Weg 9 44227 Dortmund Germany Dipl.-Informatiker Fon: +49 231 9703-0 Fax: +49 231 9703-200 Dr. Michael Bauland SIP: Michael.Bauland@knipp.de Software Development E-mail: Michael.Bauland@knipp.de Register Court: Amtsgericht Dortmund, HRB 13728 Chief Executive Officers: Dietmar Knipp, Elmar Knipp
There is, in fact, a upper case version too, U+1E9E LATIN CAPITAL LETTER SHARP S. There is, however, asymmetrical formal case relationship between them, probably since the upper case letter was added later. If you go to https://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U0080.pdf, page 4, and look at the 00DF entry it says [cid:image001.png@01D78520.AEE9E210] Also see https://codepoints.net/U+1E9E and https://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U1E00.pdf, page 6: [cid:image002.png@01D78520.AEE9E210] Mats -- --- Mats Dufberg mats.dufberg@internetstiftelsen.se Technical Expert Internetstiftelsen (The Swedish Internet Foundation) Mobile: +46 73 065 3899 https://internetstiftelsen.se/ From: Hazem Hezzah <hhezzah.las@gmail.com> Date: Friday, 30 July 2021 at 00:38 To: Mats Dufberg <mats.dufberg@internetstiftelsen.se>, ICANN Latin GP <latingp@icann.org> Subject: RE: [Latingp] U+00DF LATIN SMALL LETTER SHARP S Seems that I made this confusion by suggesting to name it “Sharp S” only. As far as I know there is no Capital Sharp S. In the Unicode Standard that Mats sent there is no Capital Sharp S mentioned. In the other document it is called “Small Letter Sharp S”, but in the rest of the document only “Sharp S” Let’s hear Meikal and Michael’s opinion. Reagrds, Hazem Hezzah From: Mats Dufberg via Latingp<mailto:latingp@icann.org> Sent: 29 July 2021 23:41 To: ICANN Latin GP<mailto:latingp@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Latingp] U+00DF LATIN SMALL LETTER SHARP S In the main document nothing needs to be updated. In the appendix D.5 some instances needs to be corrected. I have in those cases added "Small" a proposed edit. -- --- Mats Dufberg mats.dufberg@internetstiftelsen.se Technical Expert Internetstiftelsen (The Swedish Internet Foundation) Mobile: +46 73 065 3899 https://internetstiftelsen.se/ From: Latingp <latingp-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of ICANN Latin GP <latingp@icann.org> Reply to: Mats Dufberg <mats.dufberg@internetstiftelsen.se> Date: Thursday, 29 July 2021 at 22:20 To: Bill Jouris <bill.jouris@insidethestack.com>, ICANN Latin GP <latingp@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Latingp] U+00DF LATIN SMALL LETTER SHARP S I searched through the main document. Either it is referred to as "Latin Small Letter Sharp S" (10 times, 1 time in upper case) or "Sharp S" (14 times). I cannot find any "Latin Letter Sharp S". In appendix D.5 all three variants are used. There we should replace "Latin Letter Sharp S" with "Latin Small Letter Sharp S" to be consistent. In running text where the name is used several times it should be OK with the shorter "Sharp S". Mats -- --- Mats Dufberg mats.dufberg@internetstiftelsen.se Technical Expert Internetstiftelsen (The Swedish Internet Foundation) Mobile: +46 73 065 3899 https://internetstiftelsen.se/ From: Bill Jouris <bill.jouris@insidethestack.com> Reply to: Bill Jouris <bill.jouris@insidethestack.com> Date: Thursday, 29 July 2021 at 19:09 To: ICANN Latin GP <latingp@icann.org>, Mats Dufberg <mats.dufberg@internetstiftelsen.se> Subject: Re: [Latingp] U+00DF LATIN SMALL LETTER SHARP S If so, we will need to go thru the whole document and change it. Because I believe we generally used just "Latin Letter Sharp S". But perhaps the German speakers can comment on how the Sharp S is viewed by those who actually use it. Bill Jouris Inside Products bill.jouris@insidethestack.com 831-659-8360 925-855-9512 (direct) On Thursday, July 29, 2021, 10:05:30 AM PDT, Mats Dufberg via Latingp <latingp@icann.org> wrote: I think it should be LATIN SMALL LETTER SHARP S. See https://codepoints.net/U+00DF and https://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U0080.pdf (page 4) Mats -- --- Mats Dufberg mats.dufberg@internetstiftelsen.se Technical Expert Internetstiftelsen (The Swedish Internet Foundation) Mobile: +46 73 065 3899 https://internetstiftelsen.se/ _______________________________________________ Latingp mailing list Latingp@icann.org<mailto:Latingp@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/latingp _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
participants (5)
-
Bill Jouris -
Hazem Hezzah -
Mats Dufberg -
Meikal Mumin -
Michael Bauland