Suspension of Posting Privileges for Eric Brunner Williams
Staff, As Chair of NARALO I am requesting that Eric Brunner Williams, for violating the Rules of Conduct be suspended from posting the NARALO mailing list and WIKI immediately. Any additional postings from Eric Brunner Williams following this notice must be deleted by staff. On March 05, 2013 Eric Brunner Williams submitted a disparaging Ad-Hominem attack against a member of another constituency. This resulted in a complaint to the ALAC Chair and removal of the post. The NARALO Chair twice requested that Eric Brunner Williams apologize to the aggrieved party. Mr. Williams has neither acknowledged or complied with this request. I have received additional complaints from the community and must recognize this as a "pattern of abuse." I am requesting that the NARALO Secretary witness this. Eric Brunner Williams may be allowed to re-join the NARALO list under the following conditions: 1. He apologizes for the March 05, 2013 comment to the aggrieved party, CC'ing the Chair and Secretary 2. He re-apply for unaffiliated NARALO membership following the proper procedures 3. The region review this case and reach a consensus Any questions or concerns can be submitted to me. I cannot re-post the offending remark but will explain the situation privately upon request. As stated in our Rules of Conduct, membership may be suspended for: "Unprofessional commentary, regardless of the general subject" " Postings that are libelous, knowingly false, ad-hominem, or misrepresents another person" The ROC further states: "The NARALO Chair is empowered to suspend or restrict a person's posting rights when the content that person has posted is inappropriate and represents a pattern of abuse. The Chair defines and determines what is inappropriate content on a case-by-case basis." And: "If the Chair suspends posting rights or deletes a comment or link, he will say so and explain why" Full document is here: https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/2264679/NA-2007-1-2+NARALO+ Code+of+Conduct+-+EN.pdf Respectfully, Garth Bruen ------------------------------------- Garth Bruen gbruen@knujon.com
This is witnessed and has my full support. Darlene Thompson NARALO Secretariat Darlene A. Thompson Community Access Program Administrator Nunavut Dept. of Education / N-CAP P.O. Box 1000, Station 910 Iqaluit, NU X0A 0H0 Phone: (867) 975-5631 Fax: (867) 975-5610 E-mail: dthompson@gov.nu.ca -----Original Message----- From: na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Garth Bruen Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 11:00 AM To: ICANN At-Large Staff; Darlene Thompson Cc: na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org Subject: [NA-Discuss] Suspension of Posting Privileges for Eric Brunner Williams Staff, As Chair of NARALO I am requesting that Eric Brunner Williams, for violating the Rules of Conduct be suspended from posting the NARALO mailing list and WIKI immediately. Any additional postings from Eric Brunner Williams following this notice must be deleted by staff. On March 05, 2013 Eric Brunner Williams submitted a disparaging Ad-Hominem attack against a member of another constituency. This resulted in a complaint to the ALAC Chair and removal of the post. The NARALO Chair twice requested that Eric Brunner Williams apologize to the aggrieved party. Mr. Williams has neither acknowledged or complied with this request. I have received additional complaints from the community and must recognize this as a "pattern of abuse." I am requesting that the NARALO Secretary witness this. Eric Brunner Williams may be allowed to re-join the NARALO list under the following conditions: 1. He apologizes for the March 05, 2013 comment to the aggrieved party, CC'ing the Chair and Secretary 2. He re-apply for unaffiliated NARALO membership following the proper procedures 3. The region review this case and reach a consensus Any questions or concerns can be submitted to me. I cannot re-post the offending remark but will explain the situation privately upon request. As stated in our Rules of Conduct, membership may be suspended for: "Unprofessional commentary, regardless of the general subject" " Postings that are libelous, knowingly false, ad-hominem, or misrepresents another person" The ROC further states: "The NARALO Chair is empowered to suspend or restrict a person's posting rights when the content that person has posted is inappropriate and represents a pattern of abuse. The Chair defines and determines what is inappropriate content on a case-by-case basis." And: "If the Chair suspends posting rights or deletes a comment or link, he will say so and explain why" Full document is here: https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/2264679/NA-2007-1-2+NARALO+ Code+of+Conduct+-+EN.pdf Respectfully, Garth Bruen ------------------------------------- Garth Bruen gbruen@knujon.com ------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------
I also request, as precondition for reinstatement, an apology for defamation made against me in email dated June 18. - Evan (via mobile) Staff, As Chair of NARALO I am requesting that Eric Brunner Williams, for violating the Rules of Conduct be suspended from posting the NARALO mailing list and WIKI immediately. Any additional postings from Eric Brunner Williams following this notice must be deleted by staff. On March 05, 2013 Eric Brunner Williams submitted a disparaging Ad-Hominem attack against a member of another constituency. This resulted in a complaint to the ALAC Chair and removal of the post. The NARALO Chair twice requested that Eric Brunner Williams apologize to the aggrieved party. Mr. Williams has neither acknowledged or complied with this request. I have received additional complaints from the community and must recognize this as a "pattern of abuse." I am requesting that the NARALO Secretary witness this. Eric Brunner Williams may be allowed to re-join the NARALO list under the following conditions: 1. He apologizes for the March 05, 2013 comment to the aggrieved party, CC'ing the Chair and Secretary 2. He re-apply for unaffiliated NARALO membership following the proper procedures 3. The region review this case and reach a consensus Any questions or concerns can be submitted to me. I cannot re-post the offending remark but will explain the situation privately upon request. As stated in our Rules of Conduct, membership may be suspended for: "Unprofessional commentary, regardless of the general subject" " Postings that are libelous, knowingly false, ad-hominem, or misrepresents another person" The ROC further states: "The NARALO Chair is empowered to suspend or restrict a person's posting rights when the content that person has posted is inappropriate and represents a pattern of abuse. The Chair defines and determines what is inappropriate content on a case-by-case basis." And: "If the Chair suspends posting rights or deletes a comment or link, he will say so and explain why" Full document is here: https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/2264679/NA-2007-1-2+NARALO+ Code+of+Conduct+-+EN.pdf Respectfully, Garth Bruen ------------------------------------- Garth Bruen gbruen@knujon.com ------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------
Noted and added to the conditions From: evanleibovitch@gmail.com [mailto:evanleibovitch@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Evan Leibovitch Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 11:35 AM To: Garth Bruen Cc: NARALO Discussion List; ICANN At-Large Staff; Darlene Thompson Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Suspension of Posting Privileges for Eric Brunner Williams I also request, as precondition for reinstatement, an apology for defamation made against me in email dated June 18. - Evan (via mobile) Staff, As Chair of NARALO I am requesting that Eric Brunner Williams, for violating the Rules of Conduct be suspended from posting the NARALO mailing list and WIKI immediately. Any additional postings from Eric Brunner Williams following this notice must be deleted by staff. On March 05, 2013 Eric Brunner Williams submitted a disparaging Ad-Hominem attack against a member of another constituency. This resulted in a complaint to the ALAC Chair and removal of the post. The NARALO Chair twice requested that Eric Brunner Williams apologize to the aggrieved party. Mr. Williams has neither acknowledged or complied with this request. I have received additional complaints from the community and must recognize this as a "pattern of abuse." I am requesting that the NARALO Secretary witness this. Eric Brunner Williams may be allowed to re-join the NARALO list under the following conditions: 1. He apologizes for the March 05, 2013 comment to the aggrieved party, CC'ing the Chair and Secretary 2. He re-apply for unaffiliated NARALO membership following the proper procedures 3. The region review this case and reach a consensus Any questions or concerns can be submitted to me. I cannot re-post the offending remark but will explain the situation privately upon request. As stated in our Rules of Conduct, membership may be suspended for: "Unprofessional commentary, regardless of the general subject" " Postings that are libelous, knowingly false, ad-hominem, or misrepresents another person" The ROC further states: "The NARALO Chair is empowered to suspend or restrict a person's posting rights when the content that person has posted is inappropriate and represents a pattern of abuse. The Chair defines and determines what is inappropriate content on a case-by-case basis." And: "If the Chair suspends posting rights or deletes a comment or link, he will say so and explain why" Full document is here: https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/2264679/NA-2007-1-2+NARALO+ <https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/2264679/NA-2007-1-2+NARALO+...> Code+of+Conduct+-+EN.pdf Respectfully, Garth Bruen ------------------------------------- Garth Bruen gbruen@knujon.com ------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------
This confuses me. I have known Eric for over 10 years, and he always has been a substantive contributor to our policy discussions. I have tried to review the archives of this list to find the so-called disparaging comment, and I cannot find anything that appears to warrant this action. Perhaps I just missed it, I think you should be very cautious about taking any action that limits someone's voice in ICANN policy discussions. -- Bret
Bret, No one's voice is ICANN's policy discussion is limited, this concerns the necessary limiting personal comments which detract from the value of our discussion. Eric is welcome back if he follows the rules. I have in fact been overly cautious much to the criticisms of my own colleagues at times. -Garth -----Original Message----- From: na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Bret Fausett Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 12:02 PM To: ICANN At-Large Staff; NARALO Discussion List Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Suspension of Posting Privileges for Eric Brunner Williams This confuses me. I have known Eric for over 10 years, and he always has been a substantive contributor to our policy discussions. I have tried to review the archives of this list to find the so-called disparaging comment, and I cannot find anything that appears to warrant this action. Perhaps I just missed it, I think you should be very cautious about taking any action that limits someone's voice in ICANN policy discussions. -- Bret ------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------
On 19/06/2013 17:49, Garth Bruen wrote:
No one's voice is ICANN's policy discussion is limited, this concerns the necessary limiting personal comments which detract from the value of our discussion.
+1 Garth. The ALAC Rules of Procedure specifically prohibit the use of At-Large lists for ad-hominem allegations: Rule 22.11 Postings that are, knowingly false, ad-hominem, or misrepresents another person, In addition, ICANN Bylaws on conduct also allude to standards of behaviour that are expected of participants. It would be counter-productive to say that removal of ad-hominem offensive postings limits someone's voice in ICANN Activities. Quite the contrary, inflammatory postings targeted at individuals break the harmony of the discussions and deter good participants from being actively involved, for fear of reprisal. All At-Large lists are archived and the archives are crawled by Internet search engines - occasionally, libellous statements end up in a search engine search - something that (potential) employers, clients, family and friends can find. I am sad that occasionally someone has to be suspended from a mailing list, especially if that person has made, and continues to make some very valuable contributions, and I therefore hope that this will serve as a lesson and we can return to constructive dialogue. On the matter of ALSes, work is under way in the community regarding metrics for all parts of At-Large, from the ALSes all the way up to RALO leadership, ALAC members, the ALAC Chair and to the Board member selected by the At-Large community. This is a complex challenge and will take time to design, discuss and implement. It is not by naming and shaming one ALS at a time that we can achieve a better and more active At-Large Community, quite contrary. It is through the design of reliable feedback and evaluation processes (I prefer not to use the bastardization of this concept named Return on Investment - ROI) which include safeguards for the avoidance of abuse of the system to repress free contribution and turn the system overly top-down, that we can address these issues. The challenge comes from the fact that we are constantly going into what is new territory for many of us. So help from people who have experienced an effective method for bottom-up organisational enhancement will be very welcome when the work gets under way in each RALO and in the ALAC Metrics working group. Everyone's bandwidth is limited. We are all volunteers. With your collective help, we can hopefully get there faster. Kindest regards, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond ALAC Chair
I tend to concur with the viewpoints expressed by both Kieren and Bret. An action by the Chair that would result in a competing candidate's loss of posting privileges during an election cycle is ill-advised. In my view, this is an issue that properly should be forwarded to the Ombudsman's office for impartial/neutral resolution. Danny
Welcome back Danny :) -----Original Message----- From: na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Danny Younger Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 3:55 PM To: NARALO Discussion List Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Suspension of Posting Privileges for Eric Brunner Williams I tend to concur with the viewpoints expressed by both Kieren and Bret. An action by the Chair that would result in a competing candidate's loss of posting privileges during an election cycle is ill-advised. In my view, this is an issue that properly should be forwarded to the Ombudsman's office for impartial/neutral resolution. Danny ------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------ ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3345 / Virus Database: 3199/6424 - Release Date: 06/19/13
He was never a candidate, as he was not yet re-instated as a NARALO member at the time he self-nominated. On 19 June 2013 21:54, Danny Younger <dannyyounger@yahoo.com> wrote:
I tend to concur with the viewpoints expressed by both Kieren and Bret. An action by the Chair that would result in a competing candidate's loss of posting privileges during an election cycle is ill-advised. In my view, this is an issue that properly should be forwarded to the Ombudsman's office for impartial/neutral resolution.
Danny ------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss
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-- Evan Leibovitch Toronto Canada Em: evan at telly dot org Sk: evanleibovitch Tw: el56
Wait a minute. I believe I seconded and was never informed that he was not a viable candidate. Shouldn't that have happened? And if I had been informed I might have seconded another candidate? Something doesn't seem right here. On Jun 19, 2013, at 11:17 PM, Evan Leibovitch wrote:
He was never a candidate, as he was not yet re-instated as a NARALO member at the time he self-nominated.
On 19 June 2013 21:54, Danny Younger <dannyyounger@yahoo.com> wrote:
I tend to concur with the viewpoints expressed by both Kieren and Bret. An action by the Chair that would result in a competing candidate's loss of posting privileges during an election cycle is ill-advised. In my view, this is an issue that properly should be forwarded to the Ombudsman's office for impartial/neutral resolution.
Danny ------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss
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-- Evan Leibovitch Toronto Canada
Em: evan at telly dot org Sk: evanleibovitch Tw: el56 ------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss
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Jean, You're right. In a perfect world you would have been informed of such, but what happened actually shows our efforts. Instead of simply declaring eric ineligible we bent over backwards to get his SOI and fix the previous issue but eric did not cooperate with our efforts. -Garth Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Jean Polly <mom@netmom.com> Sender: na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 11:43:14 To: Evan Leibovitch<evan@telly.org> Cc: NARALO Discussion List<na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Suspension of Posting Privileges for Eric Brunner Williams Wait a minute. I believe I seconded and was never informed that he was not a viable candidate. Shouldn't that have happened? And if I had been informed I might have seconded another candidate? Something doesn't seem right here. On Jun 19, 2013, at 11:17 PM, Evan Leibovitch wrote:
He was never a candidate, as he was not yet re-instated as a NARALO member at the time he self-nominated.
On 19 June 2013 21:54, Danny Younger <dannyyounger@yahoo.com> wrote:
I tend to concur with the viewpoints expressed by both Kieren and Bret. An action by the Chair that would result in a competing candidate's loss of posting privileges during an election cycle is ill-advised. In my view, this is an issue that properly should be forwarded to the Ombudsman's office for impartial/neutral resolution.
Danny ------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss
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-- Evan Leibovitch Toronto Canada
Em: evan at telly dot org Sk: evanleibovitch Tw: el56 ------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss
Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------
------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------
Danny, Please note I have done this with extreme reluctance. The conditions for re-joining the list are fairly simple and straightforward. Additionally, the conditions do not extend to the election, I have in fact argued against removing his name from the ballot. -Garth -----Original Message----- From: na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Danny Younger Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 9:55 PM To: NARALO Discussion List Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Suspension of Posting Privileges for Eric Brunner Williams I tend to concur with the viewpoints expressed by both Kieren and Bret. An action by the Chair that would result in a competing candidate's loss of posting privileges during an election cycle is ill-advised. In my view, this is an issue that properly should be forwarded to the Ombudsman's office for impartial/neutral resolution. Danny ------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------
Actually, according to our Rules of Procedure, for someone to be considered for election they must be a member of the NARALO. Membership in the NARALO would include anyone from a certified ALS or an individual member who has met the criteria in rule 17: "The members of the unaffiliated individuals, including the representative to the NARALO General Assembly must submit a Statement of Interest indicating that they meet the following criteria: . be subscribed to the NA-Discuss list, . be a permanent resident of one of the countries/territories in the North American region as defined by ICANN, . not be a member of a certified ALS." D Darlene A. Thompson Community Access Program Administrator Nunavut Dept. of Education / N-CAP P.O. Box 1000, Station 910 Iqaluit, NU X0A 0H0 Phone: (867) 975-5631 Fax: (867) 975-5610 E-mail: dthompson@gov.nu.ca -----Original Message----- From: na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Garth Bruen Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2013 9:26 AM To: 'Danny Younger'; 'NARALO Discussion List' Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Suspension of Posting Privileges for Eric Brunner Williams Danny, Please note I have done this with extreme reluctance. The conditions for re-joining the list are fairly simple and straightforward. Additionally, the conditions do not extend to the election, I have in fact argued against removing his name from the ballot. -Garth -----Original Message----- From: na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Danny Younger Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 9:55 PM To: NARALO Discussion List Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Suspension of Posting Privileges for Eric Brunner Williams I tend to concur with the viewpoints expressed by both Kieren and Bret. An action by the Chair that would result in a competing candidate's loss of posting privileges during an election cycle is ill-advised. In my view, this is an issue that properly should be forwarded to the Ombudsman's office for impartial/neutral resolution. Danny ------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------ ------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------
To all, This decision was definitely not made lightly. It was not a unilateral decision made by the Chair simply to persecute someone running against him. This was discussed at the highest levels including the aggrieved parties, the Chair and Secretariat of the NARALO and the Chair of ALAC. Thank you, Darlene Secretariat, NARALO -----Original Message----- From: na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Garth Bruen Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2013 9:26 AM To: 'Danny Younger'; 'NARALO Discussion List' Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Suspension of Posting Privileges for Eric Brunner Williams Danny, Please note I have done this with extreme reluctance. The conditions for re-joining the list are fairly simple and straightforward. Additionally, the conditions do not extend to the election, I have in fact argued against removing his name from the ballot. -Garth -----Original Message----- From: na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Danny Younger Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 9:55 PM To: NARALO Discussion List Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Suspension of Posting Privileges for Eric Brunner Williams I tend to concur with the viewpoints expressed by both Kieren and Bret. An action by the Chair that would result in a competing candidate's loss of posting privileges during an election cycle is ill-advised. In my view, this is an issue that properly should be forwarded to the Ombudsman's office for impartial/neutral resolution. Danny ------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------ ------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------
You've made the wrong decision and should reverse it immediately. Plus stop this nonsense about waiting for an apology, and drop the red-tape argument about him not having followed the right rules. You are the people "elected" to your positions and this looks like pure self-protection in response to valid criticism. So cut if out and let Eric have his say. And let him stand for chair. Shameful. Kieren Kieren McCarthy CEO | .Nxt, Inc. +1 415 937 1451 kieren@dot-nxt.com | http://dot-nxt.com Find us on: Twitter <http://twitter.com/dotnxtcon> | LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/company/2010841>| Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/dotnxt> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 6:47 AM, Thompson, Darlene <DThompson1@gov.nu.ca>wrote:
To all,
This decision was definitely not made lightly. It was not a unilateral decision made by the Chair simply to persecute someone running against him. This was discussed at the highest levels including the aggrieved parties, the Chair and Secretariat of the NARALO and the Chair of ALAC.
Thank you,
Darlene Secretariat, NARALO
-----Original Message----- From: na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto: na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Garth Bruen Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2013 9:26 AM To: 'Danny Younger'; 'NARALO Discussion List' Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Suspension of Posting Privileges for Eric Brunner Williams
Danny,
Please note I have done this with extreme reluctance. The conditions for re-joining the list are fairly simple and straightforward. Additionally, the conditions do not extend to the election, I have in fact argued against removing his name from the ballot.
-Garth
-----Original Message----- From: na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Danny Younger Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 9:55 PM To: NARALO Discussion List Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Suspension of Posting Privileges for Eric Brunner Williams
I tend to concur with the viewpoints expressed by both Kieren and Bret. An action by the Chair that would result in a competing candidate's loss of posting privileges during an election cycle is ill-advised. In my view, this is an issue that properly should be forwarded to the Ombudsman's office for impartial/neutral resolution.
Danny ------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss
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------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss
Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------
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You've made the wrong decision and should reverse it...
I agree. Like everyone else, I'm sure, I get more ICANN-related email than I can read each day, so I have to pick and choose what I read. I always read whatever Eric Brunner Williams posts. By suspending him from the list and losing his usually enlightening contributions, we're only hurting ourselves. Bret
what they both said, I agree. And I say that as a person who was the recipient of ad hominem attacks from a fellow int-ALAC member back in the day. I didn't call for his removal, I pulled up my socks. That is what walking around in the grass roots sometimes is about. Jus sayin. On Jun 21, 2013, at 12:54 AM, Bret Fausett wrote:
You've made the wrong decision and should reverse it...
I agree. Like everyone else, I'm sure, I get more ICANN-related email than I can read each day, so I have to pick and choose what I read. I always read whatever Eric Brunner Williams posts. By suspending him from the list and losing his usually enlightening contributions, we're only hurting ourselves.
Bret
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+1 to ombudsman review, if any is necessary, not removal from lists On 06/19/2013 09:54 PM, Danny Younger wrote:
I tend to concur with the viewpoints expressed by both Kieren and Bret. An action by the Chair that would result in a competing candidate's loss of posting privileges during an election cycle is ill-advised. In my view, this is an issue that properly should be forwarded to the Ombudsman's office for impartial/neutral resolution.
The only March 5 message I see from Eric appears to be a reasoned discussion of objections and regional advice. It's also hard to fathom why a complaint from March results in a June suspension. --Wendy
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Bret, I agree with you. We have weathered many storms. I believe this action is unprecidented. I don't understand it. On Jun 19, 2013, at 12:02 PM, Bret Fausett wrote:
This confuses me. I have known Eric for over 10 years, and he always has been a substantive contributor to our policy discussions. I have tried to review the archives of this list to find the so-called disparaging comment, and I cannot find anything that appears to warrant this action. Perhaps I just missed it, I think you should be very cautious about taking any action that limits someone's voice in ICANN policy discussions.
-- Bret
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Peculiar sense of deja vu here. Wasn't it around the same time as elections last year that people started throwing around insults, claiming various people had broken rules, and insist posts were removed from the archive? I'm been occasionally dipping in for the past year to see if NARALO has got less ridiculous and actually done some useful work. I think Garth has been doing a good job despite everything. The rest of you have, I am afraid, failed miserably for yet another year to move NARALO away from a squabbling clique into something that resembles a community organization representing the users of North America in an important Internet organization. Is it safe to assume that the exact same people will be going for the exact same jobs again this year, most unopposed? There can be no finer measure of success. Kieren Kieren McCarthy CEO | .Nxt, Inc. +1 415 937 1451 kieren@dot-nxt.com | http://dot-nxt.com Find us on: Twitter <http://twitter.com/dotnxtcon> | LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/company/2010841>| Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/dotnxt> On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 7:59 AM, Garth Bruen <gbruen@knujon.com> wrote:
Staff,
As Chair of NARALO I am requesting that Eric Brunner Williams, for violating the Rules of Conduct be suspended from posting the NARALO mailing list and WIKI immediately. Any additional postings from Eric Brunner Williams following this notice must be deleted by staff.
On March 05, 2013 Eric Brunner Williams submitted a disparaging Ad-Hominem attack against a member of another constituency. This resulted in a complaint to the ALAC Chair and removal of the post. The NARALO Chair twice requested that Eric Brunner Williams apologize to the aggrieved party. Mr. Williams has neither acknowledged or complied with this request. I have received additional complaints from the community and must recognize this as a "pattern of abuse."
I am requesting that the NARALO Secretary witness this.
Eric Brunner Williams may be allowed to re-join the NARALO list under the following conditions:
1. He apologizes for the March 05, 2013 comment to the aggrieved party, CC'ing the Chair and Secretary 2. He re-apply for unaffiliated NARALO membership following the proper procedures 3. The region review this case and reach a consensus
Any questions or concerns can be submitted to me. I cannot re-post the offending remark but will explain the situation privately upon request.
As stated in our Rules of Conduct, membership may be suspended for:
"Unprofessional commentary, regardless of the general subject" " Postings that are libelous, knowingly false, ad-hominem, or misrepresents another person"
The ROC further states:
"The NARALO Chair is empowered to suspend or restrict a person's posting rights when the content that person has posted is inappropriate and represents a pattern of abuse. The Chair defines and determines what is inappropriate content on a case-by-case basis."
And:
"If the Chair suspends posting rights or deletes a comment or link, he will say so and explain why"
Full document is here:
https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/2264679/NA-2007-1-2+NARALO+ Code+of+Conduct+-+EN.pdf
Respectfully, Garth Bruen
-------------------------------------
Garth Bruen gbruen@knujon.com
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If there is anything I like it's a vigorous debate, if there is anything I don't like it's keeping people out. From: Kieren McCarthy [mailto:kieren@dot-nxt.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 1:48 PM To: Garth Bruen Cc: ICANN At-Large Staff; na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Suspension of Posting Privileges for Eric Brunner Williams Peculiar sense of deja vu here. Wasn't it around the same time as elections last year that people started throwing around insults, claiming various people had broken rules, and insist posts were removed from the archive? I'm been occasionally dipping in for the past year to see if NARALO has got less ridiculous and actually done some useful work. I think Garth has been doing a good job despite everything. The rest of you have, I am afraid, failed miserably for yet another year to move NARALO away from a squabbling clique into something that resembles a community organization representing the users of North America in an important Internet organization. Is it safe to assume that the exact same people will be going for the exact same jobs again this year, most unopposed? There can be no finer measure of success. Kieren Image removed by sender. Kieren McCarthy CEO | .Nxt, Inc. +1 415 937 1451 kieren@dot-nxt.com | http://dot-nxt.com Find us on: Twitter <http://twitter.com/dotnxtcon> | LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/company/2010841> | Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/dotnxt> On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 7:59 AM, Garth Bruen <gbruen@knujon.com> wrote: Staff, As Chair of NARALO I am requesting that Eric Brunner Williams, for violating the Rules of Conduct be suspended from posting the NARALO mailing list and WIKI immediately. Any additional postings from Eric Brunner Williams following this notice must be deleted by staff. On March 05, 2013 Eric Brunner Williams submitted a disparaging Ad-Hominem attack against a member of another constituency. This resulted in a complaint to the ALAC Chair and removal of the post. The NARALO Chair twice requested that Eric Brunner Williams apologize to the aggrieved party. Mr. Williams has neither acknowledged or complied with this request. I have received additional complaints from the community and must recognize this as a "pattern of abuse." I am requesting that the NARALO Secretary witness this. Eric Brunner Williams may be allowed to re-join the NARALO list under the following conditions: 1. He apologizes for the March 05, 2013 comment to the aggrieved party, CC'ing the Chair and Secretary 2. He re-apply for unaffiliated NARALO membership following the proper procedures 3. The region review this case and reach a consensus Any questions or concerns can be submitted to me. I cannot re-post the offending remark but will explain the situation privately upon request. As stated in our Rules of Conduct, membership may be suspended for: "Unprofessional commentary, regardless of the general subject" " Postings that are libelous, knowingly false, ad-hominem, or misrepresents another person" The ROC further states: "The NARALO Chair is empowered to suspend or restrict a person's posting rights when the content that person has posted is inappropriate and represents a pattern of abuse. The Chair defines and determines what is inappropriate content on a case-by-case basis." And: "If the Chair suspends posting rights or deletes a comment or link, he will say so and explain why" Full document is here: https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/2264679/NA-2007-1-2+NARALO+ <https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/2264679/NA-2007-1-2+NARALO +Code+of+Conduct+-+EN.pdf> Code+of+Conduct+-+EN.pdf Respectfully, Garth Bruen ------------------------------------- Garth Bruen gbruen@knujon.com ------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------
I missed the remark in question .... so while sympathetic to those who feel unhappy about it, I wish to ask if an individual can unilaterally add an "apology" policy as a condition to the greater list policies? Is the apology condition part of the existing rules? I ask this because this part of the condition put forth to to EBW to be allowed to re-enlist appears to have been created not by a consensus of the NARALO body, but by the individual who feels wronged. This is my perception as a list reader who is the acting representative member of SFBay ISOC, an ALS. I also am very uncomfortable with the fact that an election candidate has been silenced from the list. Voting members have now been affected. Annalisa On Jun 19, 2013 8:01 AM, "Garth Bruen" <gbruen@knujon.com> wrote:
Staff,
As Chair of NARALO I am requesting that Eric Brunner Williams, for violating the Rules of Conduct be suspended from posting the NARALO mailing list and WIKI immediately. Any additional postings from Eric Brunner Williams following this notice must be deleted by staff.
On March 05, 2013 Eric Brunner Williams submitted a disparaging Ad-Hominem attack against a member of another constituency. This resulted in a complaint to the ALAC Chair and removal of the post. The NARALO Chair twice requested that Eric Brunner Williams apologize to the aggrieved party. Mr. Williams has neither acknowledged or complied with this request. I have received additional complaints from the community and must recognize this as a "pattern of abuse."
I am requesting that the NARALO Secretary witness this.
Eric Brunner Williams may be allowed to re-join the NARALO list under the following conditions:
1. He apologizes for the March 05, 2013 comment to the aggrieved party, CC'ing the Chair and Secretary 2. He re-apply for unaffiliated NARALO membership following the proper procedures 3. The region review this case and reach a consensus
Any questions or concerns can be submitted to me. I cannot re-post the offending remark but will explain the situation privately upon request.
As stated in our Rules of Conduct, membership may be suspended for:
"Unprofessional commentary, regardless of the general subject" " Postings that are libelous, knowingly false, ad-hominem, or misrepresents another person"
The ROC further states:
"The NARALO Chair is empowered to suspend or restrict a person's posting rights when the content that person has posted is inappropriate and represents a pattern of abuse. The Chair defines and determines what is inappropriate content on a case-by-case basis."
And:
"If the Chair suspends posting rights or deletes a comment or link, he will say so and explain why"
Full document is here:
https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/2264679/NA-2007-1-2+NARALO+ Code+of+Conduct+-+EN.pdf
Respectfully, Garth Bruen
-------------------------------------
Garth Bruen gbruen@knujon.com
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Hi Annalisa, Our Code of Conduct can be seen here: https://community.icann.org/display/NARALO/RALO+Organising+Documents. Our Chair can add conditions to re-instatement before a person is allowed back on the list. This particular case was discussed with the ALAC Chair as well as the NARALO leadership and this course was accepted. The Code of Conduct is a document that was agreed to by the NARALO. This action was also not taken upon just one instance of a violation of the Code of Conduct. This was the third time showing a pattern of abuse. Garth really did not want to take this action because of the perception of a "rival to his position" being silenced. However, as Chair, he did have to take action because this was about abuse of our members. Please note, very clearly, that EBW was NOT an election candidate. He was asked on many occasions to submit three lines of type that would have served as his SOI to become an individual member of the NARALO. At no time did he do this. This was his choice. Please see our Rules of Procedure (in the link above), paragraph 16 that clearly states what is necessary. As Secretariat, I have to keep the lines of communication open so that is why I am responding to your e-mail - to point you to the relevant documentation and to inform on the process that our region follows. If you disagree with the reasoning herein - then that would require a change to either our Code of Conduct or our Rules of Procedure. If anybody feels that this should be done, then please quote the section of either document that you do not agree with and put it out to the region as a general discussion. Thank you, D Darlene A. Thompson Community Access Program Administrator Nunavut Dept. of Education / N-CAP P.O. Box 1000, Station 910 Iqaluit, NU X0A 0H0 Phone: (867) 975-5631 Fax: (867) 975-5610 E-mail: dthompson@gov.nu.ca -----Original Message----- From: na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Annalisa Roger Sent: Friday, June 21, 2013 11:52 AM To: Garth Bruen at KnujOn Cc: ICANN At-Large Staff; Darlene Thompson; NA-Discuss Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Suspension of Posting Privileges for Eric Brunner Williams I missed the remark in question .... so while sympathetic to those who feel unhappy about it, I wish to ask if an individual can unilaterally add an "apology" policy as a condition to the greater list policies? Is the apology condition part of the existing rules? I ask this because this part of the condition put forth to to EBW to be allowed to re-enlist appears to have been created not by a consensus of the NARALO body, but by the individual who feels wronged. This is my perception as a list reader who is the acting representative member of SFBay ISOC, an ALS. I also am very uncomfortable with the fact that an election candidate has been silenced from the list. Voting members have now been affected. Annalisa On Jun 19, 2013 8:01 AM, "Garth Bruen" <gbruen@knujon.com> wrote:
Staff,
As Chair of NARALO I am requesting that Eric Brunner Williams, for violating the Rules of Conduct be suspended from posting the NARALO mailing list and WIKI immediately. Any additional postings from Eric Brunner Williams following this notice must be deleted by staff.
On March 05, 2013 Eric Brunner Williams submitted a disparaging Ad-Hominem attack against a member of another constituency. This resulted in a complaint to the ALAC Chair and removal of the post. The NARALO Chair twice requested that Eric Brunner Williams apologize to the aggrieved party. Mr. Williams has neither acknowledged or complied with this request. I have received additional complaints from the community and must recognize this as a "pattern of abuse."
I am requesting that the NARALO Secretary witness this.
Eric Brunner Williams may be allowed to re-join the NARALO list under the following conditions:
1. He apologizes for the March 05, 2013 comment to the aggrieved party, CC'ing the Chair and Secretary 2. He re-apply for unaffiliated NARALO membership following the proper procedures 3. The region review this case and reach a consensus
Any questions or concerns can be submitted to me. I cannot re-post the offending remark but will explain the situation privately upon request.
As stated in our Rules of Conduct, membership may be suspended for:
"Unprofessional commentary, regardless of the general subject" " Postings that are libelous, knowingly false, ad-hominem, or misrepresents another person"
The ROC further states:
"The NARALO Chair is empowered to suspend or restrict a person's posting rights when the content that person has posted is inappropriate and represents a pattern of abuse. The Chair defines and determines what is inappropriate content on a case-by-case basis."
And:
"If the Chair suspends posting rights or deletes a comment or link, he will say so and explain why"
Full document is here:
https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/2264679/NA-2007-1-2+N ARALO+ Code+of+Conduct+-+EN.pdf
Respectfully, Garth Bruen
-------------------------------------
Garth Bruen gbruen@knujon.com
------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss
Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------
------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------
Dear all, as Chair of the ALAC, I am always concerned about a breaking of the inclusive atmosphere in any part of our community. One such cause is the writing of ad-hominem accusations on the list. This ends up being archived, picked up by search engines and ultimately makes everybody look bad. I too am sad that it had to come to this - but we are all grown up people here and we do not need to pick at each other personally. I understand sometimes that debates and discussions can get out of hand. But offending other people is not the way that we'll manage to better channel the points of view of Internet users into the ICANN process - and it is not the way we'll encourage more people to get involved and to contribute, because a hostile atmosphere will scare them away. For this reason, Garth had my full support for his actions that he had to take as NARALO Chair. If Eric feels he has been unfairly treated, the Ombudsman is indeed a possible avenue for appeal. Best regards, Olivier Crépin-Leblond ALAC Chair On 21/06/2013 17:07, Thompson, Darlene wrote:
Our Chair can add conditions to re-instatement before a person is allowed back on the list. This particular case was discussed with the ALAC Chair as well as the NARALO leadership and this course was accepted. The Code of Conduct is a document that was agreed to by the NARALO. This action was also not taken upon just one instance of a violation of the Code of Conduct. This was the third time showing a pattern of abuse. Garth really did not want to take this action because of the perception of a "rival to his position" being silenced. However, as Chair, he did have to take action because this was about abuse of our members.
-- Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD http://www.gih.com/ocl.html
So, to recap: During elections, someone who says they wish to stand for chair is: * Told they insulted someone two months earlier * Suspended from posting to an open list * Told that their credentials are not correct * Informed that they are not eligible to stand for chair In order to be allowed to continue, this person is told to: * Apologize for a message that so far no one has been able to ascertain who it is and what he should be apologizing for * To resubmit his ALS application - which presumably would push him past the election time When this series of events is questioned by other members of the community, we learn the following: * All the decisions made were made by the Chair and Secretary with some level of consultation with the ALAC chair * That it was a "really hard" decision and that those three people are committed to open discussion, despite the clear evidence otherwise When no less than four community members continue to question the process, the response is that these three people stand by their decision. No other information is provided. So, some questions: * Who exactly did Eric Brunner-Williams insult and by saying what? No one on this list has seen any evidence of it. * When exactly did the NARALO chair and secretary get to decide they could introduce arbitrary conditions for membership of the organization? * Where are these discussions documented and why did the parties in question not use the Ombudsman process rather than decide between themselves what the appropriate action was? * Why do "elected" NARALO representatives feel that they do not have to respond to the clear concerns expressed by the community they are there to represent? This is really poor even for the low standards set by NARALO. Kieren Kieren McCarthy CEO | .Nxt, Inc. +1 415 937 1451 kieren@dot-nxt.com | http://dot-nxt.com Find us on: Twitter <http://twitter.com/dotnxtcon> | LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/company/2010841>| Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/dotnxt> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 6:05 PM, Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com>wrote:
Dear all,
as Chair of the ALAC, I am always concerned about a breaking of the inclusive atmosphere in any part of our community.
One such cause is the writing of ad-hominem accusations on the list. This ends up being archived, picked up by search engines and ultimately makes everybody look bad. I too am sad that it had to come to this - but we are all grown up people here and we do not need to pick at each other personally. I understand sometimes that debates and discussions can get out of hand. But offending other people is not the way that we'll manage to better channel the points of view of Internet users into the ICANN process - and it is not the way we'll encourage more people to get involved and to contribute, because a hostile atmosphere will scare them away. For this reason, Garth had my full support for his actions that he had to take as NARALO Chair.
If Eric feels he has been unfairly treated, the Ombudsman is indeed a possible avenue for appeal.
Best regards,
Olivier Crépin-Leblond ALAC Chair
On 21/06/2013 17:07, Thompson, Darlene wrote:
Our Chair can add conditions to re-instatement before a person is allowed back on the list. This particular case was discussed with the ALAC Chair as well as the NARALO leadership and this course was accepted. The Code of Conduct is a document that was agreed to by the NARALO. This action was also not taken upon just one instance of a violation of the Code of Conduct. This was the third time showing a pattern of abuse. Garth really did not want to take this action because of the perception of a "rival to his position" being silenced. However, as Chair, he did have to take action because this was about abuse of our members.
-- Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD http://www.gih.com/ocl.html
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Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------
I'll let the chair respond. I've pointed to the appropriate regulations enough times and answered the same questions enough times. I think Olivier has put it very well. D Darlene A. Thompson CAP Administrator N-CAP/Department of Education P.O. Box 1000, Station 910 Iqaluit, NU X0A 0H0 Phone: (867) 975-5631 Fax: (867) 975-5610 dthompson@gov.nu.ca ________________________________________ From: na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] on behalf of Kieren McCarthy [kieren@dot-nxt.com] Sent: Friday, June 21, 2013 10:29 PM To: NA-Discuss Cc: ICANN At-Large Staff Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Suspension of Posting Privileges for Eric Brunner Williams So, to recap: During elections, someone who says they wish to stand for chair is: * Told they insulted someone two months earlier * Suspended from posting to an open list * Told that their credentials are not correct * Informed that they are not eligible to stand for chair In order to be allowed to continue, this person is told to: * Apologize for a message that so far no one has been able to ascertain who it is and what he should be apologizing for * To resubmit his ALS application - which presumably would push him past the election time When this series of events is questioned by other members of the community, we learn the following: * All the decisions made were made by the Chair and Secretary with some level of consultation with the ALAC chair * That it was a "really hard" decision and that those three people are committed to open discussion, despite the clear evidence otherwise When no less than four community members continue to question the process, the response is that these three people stand by their decision. No other information is provided. So, some questions: * Who exactly did Eric Brunner-Williams insult and by saying what? No one on this list has seen any evidence of it. * When exactly did the NARALO chair and secretary get to decide they could introduce arbitrary conditions for membership of the organization? * Where are these discussions documented and why did the parties in question not use the Ombudsman process rather than decide between themselves what the appropriate action was? * Why do "elected" NARALO representatives feel that they do not have to respond to the clear concerns expressed by the community they are there to represent? This is really poor even for the low standards set by NARALO. Kieren Kieren McCarthy CEO | .Nxt, Inc. +1 415 937 1451 kieren@dot-nxt.com | http://dot-nxt.com Find us on: Twitter <http://twitter.com/dotnxtcon> | LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/company/2010841>| Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/dotnxt> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 6:05 PM, Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com>wrote:
Dear all,
as Chair of the ALAC, I am always concerned about a breaking of the inclusive atmosphere in any part of our community.
One such cause is the writing of ad-hominem accusations on the list. This ends up being archived, picked up by search engines and ultimately makes everybody look bad. I too am sad that it had to come to this - but we are all grown up people here and we do not need to pick at each other personally. I understand sometimes that debates and discussions can get out of hand. But offending other people is not the way that we'll manage to better channel the points of view of Internet users into the ICANN process - and it is not the way we'll encourage more people to get involved and to contribute, because a hostile atmosphere will scare them away. For this reason, Garth had my full support for his actions that he had to take as NARALO Chair.
If Eric feels he has been unfairly treated, the Ombudsman is indeed a possible avenue for appeal.
Best regards,
Olivier Crépin-Leblond ALAC Chair
On 21/06/2013 17:07, Thompson, Darlene wrote:
Our Chair can add conditions to re-instatement before a person is allowed back on the list. This particular case was discussed with the ALAC Chair as well as the NARALO leadership and this course was accepted. The Code of Conduct is a document that was agreed to by the NARALO. This action was also not taken upon just one instance of a violation of the Code of Conduct. This was the third time showing a pattern of abuse. Garth really did not want to take this action because of the perception of a "rival to his position" being silenced. However, as Chair, he did have to take action because this was about abuse of our members.
-- Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD http://www.gih.com/ocl.html
------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss
Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------
------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------
I'm afraid that's precisely the point: you have *not* answered the questions to anyone's but your satisfaction. And that simply isn't good enough if you expect to hold yourself out as a representative of others. Kieren Kieren McCarthy CEO | .Nxt, Inc. +1 415 937 1451 kieren@dot-nxt.com | http://dot-nxt.com Find us on: Twitter <http://twitter.com/dotnxtcon> | LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/company/2010841>| Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/dotnxt> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 7:44 PM, Thompson, Darlene <DThompson1@gov.nu.ca>wrote:
I'll let the chair respond. I've pointed to the appropriate regulations enough times and answered the same questions enough times. I think Olivier has put it very well.
D
Darlene A. Thompson CAP Administrator N-CAP/Department of Education P.O. Box 1000, Station 910 Iqaluit, NU X0A 0H0 Phone: (867) 975-5631 Fax: (867) 975-5610 dthompson@gov.nu.ca ________________________________________ From: na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [ na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] on behalf of Kieren McCarthy [ kieren@dot-nxt.com] Sent: Friday, June 21, 2013 10:29 PM To: NA-Discuss Cc: ICANN At-Large Staff Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Suspension of Posting Privileges for Eric Brunner Williams
So, to recap:
During elections, someone who says they wish to stand for chair is:
* Told they insulted someone two months earlier * Suspended from posting to an open list * Told that their credentials are not correct * Informed that they are not eligible to stand for chair
In order to be allowed to continue, this person is told to:
* Apologize for a message that so far no one has been able to ascertain who it is and what he should be apologizing for * To resubmit his ALS application - which presumably would push him past the election time
When this series of events is questioned by other members of the community, we learn the following:
* All the decisions made were made by the Chair and Secretary with some level of consultation with the ALAC chair * That it was a "really hard" decision and that those three people are committed to open discussion, despite the clear evidence otherwise
When no less than four community members continue to question the process, the response is that these three people stand by their decision. No other information is provided.
So, some questions:
* Who exactly did Eric Brunner-Williams insult and by saying what? No one on this list has seen any evidence of it.
* When exactly did the NARALO chair and secretary get to decide they could introduce arbitrary conditions for membership of the organization?
* Where are these discussions documented and why did the parties in question not use the Ombudsman process rather than decide between themselves what the appropriate action was?
* Why do "elected" NARALO representatives feel that they do not have to respond to the clear concerns expressed by the community they are there to represent?
This is really poor even for the low standards set by NARALO.
Kieren
Kieren McCarthy CEO | .Nxt, Inc. +1 415 937 1451 kieren@dot-nxt.com | http://dot-nxt.com
Find us on: Twitter <http://twitter.com/dotnxtcon> | LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/company/2010841>| Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/dotnxt>
On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 6:05 PM, Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com
wrote:
Dear all,
as Chair of the ALAC, I am always concerned about a breaking of the inclusive atmosphere in any part of our community.
One such cause is the writing of ad-hominem accusations on the list. This ends up being archived, picked up by search engines and ultimately makes everybody look bad. I too am sad that it had to come to this - but we are all grown up people here and we do not need to pick at each other personally. I understand sometimes that debates and discussions can get out of hand. But offending other people is not the way that we'll manage to better channel the points of view of Internet users into the ICANN process - and it is not the way we'll encourage more people to get involved and to contribute, because a hostile atmosphere will scare them away. For this reason, Garth had my full support for his actions that he had to take as NARALO Chair.
If Eric feels he has been unfairly treated, the Ombudsman is indeed a possible avenue for appeal.
Best regards,
Olivier Crépin-Leblond ALAC Chair
On 21/06/2013 17:07, Thompson, Darlene wrote:
Our Chair can add conditions to re-instatement before a person is allowed back on the list. This particular case was discussed with the ALAC Chair as well as the NARALO leadership and this course was accepted. The Code of Conduct is a document that was agreed to by the NARALO. This action was also not taken upon just one instance of a violation of the Code of Conduct. This was the third time showing a pattern of abuse. Garth really did not want to take this action because of the perception of a "rival to his position" being silenced. However, as Chair, he did have to take action because this was about abuse of our members.
-- Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD http://www.gih.com/ocl.html
------ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss
Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org ------
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Kieren, All of these concerns questions were addressed in the original notice which I have re-appended here. However, to recap: << Told they insulted someone two months earlier>> Eric was informed at the time and the same request was made. Eric never acknowledged, responded or complied. Instead Eric unsubscribed from the list. List subscription is a condition of unaffiliated membership. Since he was (voluntarily) no longer a member of NARALO it became a moot issue and the Chair did not pursue it further. The incident resulted in VERY specific complaints and has been followed by more complaints in a "pattern of abuse." Eric re-subscribed to the list at some point unbeknownst to the Chair. Had I known in advance, I would have insisted he comply with the original request. << Suspended from posting to an open list>> It is only open in so far as the rules are adhered to. <<Told that their credentials are not correct>> This is a simple fact. Eric was given multiple notices and instructions on how to fulfill the requirements and for unknown reasons did not comply. << Informed that they are not eligible to stand for chair>> My notices have stated otherwise << Apologize for a message that so far no one has been able to ascertain who it is and what he should be apologizing for/ Who exactly did Eric Brunner-Williams insult and by saying what? No one on this list has seen any evidence of it.>> Wrong. I plainly stated in my original notice: "I cannot re-post the offending remark but will explain the situation privately upon request." - Which I have done now on multiple occasions, since you never asked I never provided it. << When exactly did the NARALO chair and secretary get to decide they could introduce arbitrary conditions for membership of the organization?>> All rules have been referenced in the original notice and subsequently. << Where are these discussions documented and why did the parties in question not use the Ombudsman process rather than decide between themselves what the appropriate action was?>> A complete list of incidents and complaints will be made available for our next call. As for the Ombudsman, he is there for the concerned parties at any time. The actions here are completely within the rules of the NARALO rules and did not require consultation with the Ombudsman. <<* All the decisions made were made by the Chair and Secretary with some level of consultation with the ALAC chair * That it was a "really hard" decision and that those three people are committed to open discussion, despite the clear evidence otherwise>> Yes, and the ALAC chair made this all very clear. << Why do "elected" NARALO representatives feel that they do not have to respond to the clear concerns expressed by the community they are there to represent?/>> We have responded to every email. -Garth -----Original Message----- From: na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Kieren McCarthy Sent: Friday, June 21, 2013 10:30 PM To: NA-Discuss Cc: ICANN At-Large Staff Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Suspension of Posting Privileges for Eric Brunner Williams So, to recap: During elections, someone who says they wish to stand for chair is: * Told they insulted someone two months earlier * Suspended from posting to an open list * Told that their credentials are not correct * Informed that they are not eligible to stand for chair In order to be allowed to continue, this person is told to: * Apologize for a message that so far no one has been able to ascertain who it is and what he should be apologizing for * To resubmit his ALS application - which presumably would push him past the election time When this series of events is questioned by other members of the community, we learn the following: * All the decisions made were made by the Chair and Secretary with some level of consultation with the ALAC chair * That it was a "really hard" decision and that those three people are committed to open discussion, despite the clear evidence otherwise When no less than four community members continue to question the process, the response is that these three people stand by their decision. No other information is provided. So, some questions: * Who exactly did Eric Brunner-Williams insult and by saying what? No one on this list has seen any evidence of it. * When exactly did the NARALO chair and secretary get to decide they could introduce arbitrary conditions for membership of the organization? * Where are these discussions documented and why did the parties in question not use the Ombudsman process rather than decide between themselves what the appropriate action was? * Why do "elected" NARALO representatives feel that they do not have to respond to the clear concerns expressed by the community they are there to represent? This is really poor even for the low standards set by NARALO. Kieren Kieren McCarthy CEO | .Nxt, Inc. +1 415 937 1451 kieren@dot-nxt.com | http://dot-nxt.com Find us on: Twitter <http://twitter.com/dotnxtcon> | LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/company/2010841>| Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/dotnxt> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 6:05 PM, Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com>wrote:
Dear all,
as Chair of the ALAC, I am always concerned about a breaking of the inclusive atmosphere in any part of our community.
One such cause is the writing of ad-hominem accusations on the list. This ends up being archived, picked up by search engines and ultimately makes everybody look bad. I too am sad that it had to come to this - but we are all grown up people here and we do not need to pick at each other personally. I understand sometimes that debates and discussions can get out of hand. But offending other people is not the way that we'll manage to better channel the points of view of Internet users into the ICANN process - and it is not the way we'll encourage more people to get involved and to contribute, because a hostile atmosphere will scare them away. For this reason, Garth had my full support for his actions that he had to take as NARALO Chair.
If Eric feels he has been unfairly treated, the Ombudsman is indeed a possible avenue for appeal.
Best regards,
Olivier Crépin-Leblond ALAC Chair
On 21/06/2013 17:07, Thompson, Darlene wrote:
Our Chair can add conditions to re-instatement before a person is allowed back on the list. This particular case was discussed with the ALAC Chair as well as the NARALO leadership and this course was accepted. The Code of Conduct is a document that was agreed to by the NARALO. This action was also not taken upon just one instance of a violation of the Code of Conduct. This was the third time showing a pattern of abuse. Garth really did not want to take this action because of the perception of a "rival to his position" being silenced. However, as Chair, he did have to take action because this was about abuse of our members.
-- Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD http://www.gih.com/ocl.html
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Thank you Olivier. Folks, while this is serious, things are not nearly as grim as they are being made out to be and there are a variety of possible solutions. I have cc'ed Eric so he Is aware of two critical items: 1. I am insisting (in contradiction to my colleagues) that Eric Brunner Williams remain on the ballot for chair. It has been pointed out for a variety of reasons that Eric is not eligible for election, but in the interest of democracy, openness and to truly serve the At-Large membership in the region: I WANT Eric's name on the ballot. 2. The list is merely one of our channels for input in At-Large. I am inviting Eric, in full view of the community, to A) Appear on our next Monthly Call and/or B) Submit a written statement which will be included in the meeting agenda and in the monthly reports explaining his position on this or any other topic. The list has rules and has rules for a reason. If the community is unhappy with the rules there is a formal process for changing them. Thanks, Garth -----Original Message----- From: Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond [mailto:ocl@gih.com] Sent: Friday, June 21, 2013 9:05 PM To: NA-Discuss Cc: Thompson, Darlene; Garth Bruen at KnujOn; ICANN At-Large Staff Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Suspension of Posting Privileges for Eric Brunner Williams Dear all, as Chair of the ALAC, I am always concerned about a breaking of the inclusive atmosphere in any part of our community. One such cause is the writing of ad-hominem accusations on the list. This ends up being archived, picked up by search engines and ultimately makes everybody look bad. I too am sad that it had to come to this - but we are all grown up people here and we do not need to pick at each other personally. I understand sometimes that debates and discussions can get out of hand. But offending other people is not the way that we'll manage to better channel the points of view of Internet users into the ICANN process - and it is not the way we'll encourage more people to get involved and to contribute, because a hostile atmosphere will scare them away. For this reason, Garth had my full support for his actions that he had to take as NARALO Chair. If Eric feels he has been unfairly treated, the Ombudsman is indeed a possible avenue for appeal. Best regards, Olivier Crépin-Leblond ALAC Chair On 21/06/2013 17:07, Thompson, Darlene wrote:
Our Chair can add conditions to re-instatement before a person is allowed back on the list. This particular case was discussed with the ALAC Chair as well as the NARALO leadership and this course was accepted. The Code of Conduct is a document that was agreed to by the NARALO. This action was also not taken upon just one instance of a violation of the Code of Conduct. This was the third time showing a pattern of abuse. Garth really did not want to take this action because of the perception of a "rival to his position" being silenced. However, as Chair, he did have to take action because this was about abuse of our members.
-- Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD http://www.gih.com/ocl.html
participants (12)
-
Annalisa Roger -
Bret Fausett -
Danny Younger -
Evan Leibovitch -
Garth Bruen -
gbruen＠knujon.com
-
Jean Polly -
Kieren McCarthy -
Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond -
Seth M Reiss -
Thompson, Darlene -
Wendy Seltzer