Re: [NA-Discuss] Voting Update
Sorry, I used the wrong email address to send this the first time. On 6/4/07, Ted Ernst <ted@chicagohumanist.org> wrote:
I (Ted Ernst representing Emerging Futures Network) abstain on the Draft Operating Principles at this time. I'm still unclear on much of what we're doing, and how voting works.
Some questions: 1.) What are the boundaries of our region? I ask because I see we use English and French, which presumably covers USA and Canada, but not Spanish, which tells me Mexico is not in our region. Is this correct? 2.) 70% affirmative vote is required to adopt the Operating Principles. Is there a time-limit? Am I free to change my vote anytime before we reach the 70%? 3.) Is the document we're currently voting on fixed until is passes or can it be changed in order to satisfy concerns raised during voting? If it's changed, are previously cast votes void and we start over?
Sorry for my basic ignorance and newness. Hopefully I'll catch up soon.
peace, ted
On 6/4/07, Bret Fausett < bfausett@internet.law.pro> wrote:
Hi folks,
I'm sorry for the short delay in responding to the list. I moved houses last week and much of life has been in and out of boxes since our conference call. Anyway, returning to the matters at hand, on our conference call last week, we asked all accredited ALSs who had either not voted or abstained to review the Draft Operating Principles and the Draft Code of Conduct again and cast an affirmative or negative vote on the documents. We agreed that At Large Staff would reach out to non-voting ALSs to let them know that if they did not cast a vote by tomorrow, Tuesday, June 5th, we would deem them not "active" for purposes of this ratification vote described in Paragraph 15 of the Operating Principles. After the close of the day, Hawaii time, tomorrow, I will send an announcement to the list with our status.
Bret
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http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss_atlarge-lists.ica... --- Draft MoU with ICANN: http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_MOU
Draft Operating Principles: http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_OP
Draft Code of Conduct: http://www.icannwiki.org/NARALO_Code_of_Conduct
-- Humanize the Earth! http://tedernst.com Open more space! http://www.openspaceworld.org skype: TedErnst
-- Humanize the Earth! http://tedernst.com Open more space! http://www.openspaceworld.org skype: TedErnst
Ted: comments below. On 5-Jun-07, at 8:59 AM, Ted Ernst wrote:
Sorry, I used the wrong email address to send this the first time.
On 6/4/07, Ted Ernst <ted@chicagohumanist.org > wrote: I (Ted Ernst representing Emerging Futures Network) abstain on the Draft Operating Principles at this time. I'm still unclear on much of what we're doing, and how voting works.
Some questions: 1.) What are the boundaries of our region? I ask because I see we use English and French, which presumably covers USA and Canada, but not Spanish, which tells me Mexico is not in our region. Is this correct?
The information regarding regions and what countries are included is well documented on the ICANN website (URL below). It has been mentioned a few times on this list and in some of the teleconferences. That being said, as you and others are newcomers - thought it would be a good idea to list the references and comment. relevant URL's (1) Review of ICANN Regions -28 November 2006 http://www.icann.org/announcements/announcement-rev-28nov06.htm (2) Definition of ICANN's Geographic Regions http://www.icann.org/yokohama/geo-topic.htm Countries listed as being included as the "ICANN North american region": American Samoa Canada Guam Northern Mariana Islands Puerto Rico United States Minor Outlying Islands United States Virgin Islands, U.S. - Mexico, which is geographically located in north america is part of the ICANN Latin American and Caribbean region (which I believes is the way Mexico is classified at the United nations) - Official languages: The USA (as stated by congress) is English, Canada's official languages (at a federal level) are English and French http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Canada
2.) 70% affirmative vote is required to adopt the Operating Principles. Is there a time-limit? Am I free to change my vote anytime before we reach the 70%?
70% is the % that is needed for a rough consensus (see ref below) . For the motion on the floor, it specifically means if there is "general agreement" to proceed to adopt the proposed Operating Procedures for the North American (NA) RALO. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rough_consensus Rough consensus is a term used in consensus decision-making to indicate the "sense of the group" concerning a particular matter under consideration. It has been defined as the "dominant view" of a group as determined by its chairperson. The term was first used by the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF) in describing its procedures for working groups. Rough consensus is consistent with other models of consensus, such as Quaker-based consensus. The means to establish rough consensus was described by the IETF (1998) as follows: Working groups make decisions through a "rough consensus" process. IETF consensus does not require that all participants agree although this is, of course, preferred. In general, the dominant view of the working group shall prevail. (However, it must be noted that "dominance" is not to be determined on the basis of volume or persistence, but rather a more general sense of agreement). Consensus can be determined by a show of hands, humming, or any other means on which the WG agrees (by rough consensus, of course). Note that 51% of the working group does not qualify as "rough consensus" and 99% is better than rough. It is up to the Chair to determine if rough consensus has been reached (IETF Working Group Guidelines and Procedures). The creation of at-large RALO's (regional at large structures) were envisioned in documents drafted in 2003 (see url below). The in-trim at-large committee and ALS's were formed with the understanding that their role was to form RALOs. The bylaws and ALS applications clearly mention that. My understanding of the bylaws and ALS application is that signing implied that one would be in support of a regional RALO being formed. if are an at-large structure, then I hope you understood that. Again, as you are new to the group I am including a few references . ref: http://alac.icann.org/framework.htm http://www.icann.org/montreal/alac-organization-topic.htm The latin american, african, asia pacific and european regions have already formed their regional RALOs. We in north america are the last and remaining region yet to organize to create our own regional structure.
3.) Is the document we're currently voting on fixed until is passes or can it be changed in order to satisfy concerns raised during voting? If it's changed, are previously cast votes void and we start over?
The OP needs to be adopted to proceed in the RALO formation processes. In a sense, the question to the NA ALS's are "are you ok with the spirit of the OP and that we proceed towards a RALO". If so, say so. The numerous discussions on this list and the teleconferences have made it clear that the OP is likely to be revised to incorporate suggestions and/or improvements after the regional RALO gets formed.
Sorry for my basic ignorance and newness. Hopefully I'll catch up soon.
I quite understand, it is a complex issue with a great deal of history and with some dissenting views. Though I am in favor of NA RALO formation I do respect the fact that that there are dissenting views. It is my belief that their concerns and issues can be best dealt from working with the existing organizational framework I think more can be achieved working in collaboration with other RALOs to effect positive change both within At large and ICANN as a whole. Perhaps it is a more Canadian view... I hope that with my comments and references are helpful. regards Robert
- Official languages: The USA (as stated by congress) is English, Canada's official languages (at a federal level) are English and French
The US has no official language. But English is the de facto national language. In the discussions I've heard, we agreed that if ICANN reorganized the regions to put Mexico into NA, we would add Spanish as a working langauge. R's, John
Given that Puerto Rico is in NA - should you add Spanish now anyway? There's one ALS from Puerto Rico - ISOC PR. Jacqueline -----Original Message----- From: John L [mailto:johnl@iecc.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 11:48 AM To: Robert Guerra Cc: NA Discuss Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Voting Update
- Official languages: The USA (as stated by congress) is English, Canada's
official languages (at a federal level) are English and French
The US has no official language. But English is the de facto national language. In the discussions I've heard, we agreed that if ICANN reorganized the regions to put Mexico into NA, we would add Spanish as a working langauge. R's, John _______________________________________________ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss_atlarge-lists.ica nn.org --- Draft MoU with ICANN: http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_MOU Draft Operating Principles: http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_OP Draft Code of Conduct: http://www.icannwiki.org/NARALO_Code_of_Conduct No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.9/832 - Release Date: 6/4/2007 6:43 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.9/832 - Release Date: 6/4/2007 6:43 PM
This would also be appealing for inclusion of a significant proportion of US population. On 6/5/07, Jacqueline A. Morris <jam@jacquelinemorris.com> wrote:
Given that Puerto Rico is in NA - should you add Spanish now anyway? There's one ALS from Puerto Rico - ISOC PR. Jacqueline
-----Original Message----- From: John L [mailto:johnl@iecc.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 11:48 AM To: Robert Guerra Cc: NA Discuss Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Voting Update
- Official languages: The USA (as stated by congress) is English, Canada's
official languages (at a federal level) are English and French
The US has no official language. But English is the de facto national language.
In the discussions I've heard, we agreed that if ICANN reorganized the regions to put Mexico into NA, we would add Spanish as a working langauge.
R's, John
_______________________________________________ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org
http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss_atlarge-lists.ica nn.org --- Draft MoU with ICANN: http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_MOU
Draft Operating Principles: http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_OP
Draft Code of Conduct: http://www.icannwiki.org/NARALO_Code_of_Conduct
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Draft Operating Principles: http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_OP
Draft Code of Conduct: http://www.icannwiki.org/NARALO_Code_of_Conduct
-- --------------------------------------------------------------- Executive Director, CTCNet Chicago Chapter Co-Founder, Chicago Digital Access Alliance Co-Chair, Illinois Community Technology Coalition President, Association For Community Networking Support the efforts of the Chicago Digital Access Alliance: http://www.digitalaccessalliance.org
Yes, I think that somebody mentioned quite some time ago that there are more Spanish speakers in the US than there are people in Canada... So, it would definitely make sense. If this is something that we can do WITHOUT taking a separate vote on the OP Principles, we should do it. If not, that should be right near the top of the list (along with making things better for individuals) to get changed in our first year of operation. Or is this something for our MOU? In which case, we DO have time to discuss it as it deserves to be discussed. D Darlene A. Thompson Community Access Program Administrator Nunavut Department of Education/N-CAP c/o P.O. Box 1000, Station 910 Iqaluit, NU X0A 0H0 Phone: (867) 975-6531 Fax: (867) 979-8870 dthompson@gov.nu.ca ________________________________ From: na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Michael Maranda Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 12:21 PM To: jam@jacquelinemorris.com Cc: NA Discuss Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Voting Update This would also be appealing for inclusion of a significant proportion of US population. On 6/5/07, Jacqueline A. Morris < jam@jacquelinemorris.com <mailto:jam@jacquelinemorris.com> > wrote: Given that Puerto Rico is in NA - should you add Spanish now anyway? There's one ALS from Puerto Rico - ISOC PR. Jacqueline -----Original Message----- From: John L [mailto:johnl@iecc.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 11:48 AM To: Robert Guerra Cc: NA Discuss Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Voting Update
- Official languages: The USA (as stated by congress) is English, Canada's
official languages (at a federal level) are English and French
The US has no official language. But English is the de facto national language. In the discussions I've heard, we agreed that if ICANN reorganized the regions to put Mexico into NA, we would add Spanish as a working langauge. R's, John _______________________________________________ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss_atlarge-lists .ica nn.org --- Draft MoU with ICANN: http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_MOU Draft Operating Principles: http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_OP Draft Code of Conduct: http://www.icannwiki.org/NARALO_Code_of_Conduct No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.9/832 - Release Date: 6/4/2007 6:43 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.9/832 - Release Date: 6/4/2007 6:43 PM _______________________________________________ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss_atlarge-lists .icann.org --- Draft MoU with ICANN: http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_MOU Draft Operating Principles: http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_OP Draft Code of Conduct: http://www.icannwiki.org/NARALO_Code_of_Conduct -- --------------------------------------------------------------- Executive Director, CTCNet Chicago Chapter Co-Founder, Chicago Digital Access Alliance Co-Chair, Illinois Community Technology Coalition President, Association For Community Networking Support the efforts of the Chicago Digital Access Alliance: http://www.digitalaccessalliance.org
If the commitment on translations is one where you want ICANN to commit to translating things, then that would go in the MoU - and indeed there is already language in the MoU related to this (which is also the subject of staff comments). -- Regards, Nick Ashton-Hart Director, At-Large ICANN PO Box 32160 London N4 2XY United Kingdom Main Tel: +44 (20) 8800-1011] USA Tel: +1 (202) 657-5460 Fax: +44 (20) 7681-3135 mobile: +44 (7774) 932798 email: nick.ashton-hart@icann.org Win IM: ashtonhart@hotmail.com / AIM/iSight: nashtonhart@mac.com / Skype: nashtonhart Online Bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashtonhart On 5 Jun 2007, at 17:28, Thompson, Darlene wrote:
Yes, I think that somebody mentioned quite some time ago that there are more Spanish speakers in the US than there are people in Canada… So, it would definitely make sense. If this is something that we can do WITHOUT taking a separate vote on the OP Principles, we should do it. If not, that should be right near the top of the list (along with making things better for individuals) to get changed in our first year of operation.
Or is this something for our MOU? In which case, we DO have time to discuss it as it deserves to be discussed.
D
Darlene A. Thompson
Community Access Program Administrator
Nunavut Department of Education/N-CAP
c/o P.O. Box 1000, Station 910
Iqaluit, NU X0A 0H0
Phone: (867) 975-6531
Fax: (867) 979-8870
dthompson@gov.nu.ca
From: na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:na-discuss- bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Michael Maranda Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 12:21 PM To: jam@jacquelinemorris.com Cc: NA Discuss Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Voting Update
This would also be appealing for inclusion of a significant proportion of US population.
On 6/5/07, Jacqueline A. Morris < jam@jacquelinemorris.com> wrote:
Given that Puerto Rico is in NA - should you add Spanish now anyway? There's one ALS from Puerto Rico - ISOC PR. Jacqueline
-----Original Message----- From: John L [mailto:johnl@iecc.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 11:48 AM To: Robert Guerra Cc: NA Discuss Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Voting Update
- Official languages: The USA (as stated by congress) is English, Canada's
official languages (at a federal level) are English and French
The US has no official language. But English is the de facto national language.
In the discussions I've heard, we agreed that if ICANN reorganized the regions to put Mexico into NA, we would add Spanish as a working langauge.
R's, John
_______________________________________________ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss_atlarge- lists.ica nn.org --- Draft MoU with ICANN: http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_MOU
Draft Operating Principles: http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_OP
Draft Code of Conduct: http://www.icannwiki.org/NARALO_Code_of_Conduct
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_______________________________________________ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss_atlarge- lists.icann.org --- Draft MoU with ICANN: http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_MOU
Draft Operating Principles: http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_OP
Draft Code of Conduct: http://www.icannwiki.org/NARALO_Code_of_Conduct
-- --------------------------------------------------------------- Executive Director, CTCNet Chicago Chapter Co-Founder, Chicago Digital Access Alliance Co-Chair, Illinois Community Technology Coalition President, Association For Community Networking
Support the efforts of the Chicago Digital Access Alliance: http://www.digitalaccessalliance.org
_______________________________________________ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss_atlarge- lists.icann.org --- Draft MoU with ICANN: http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_MOU
Draft Operating Principles: http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_OP
Draft Code of Conduct: http://www.icannwiki.org/NARALO_Code_of_Conduct
Nick, The San Juan schedule for Monday 25 June includes "Workshop: Protection of Registrants" at 13:30 - 16:00. Can you find out for us who has arranged this workshop and who the speakers will be? Thanks, Danny ____________________________________________________________________________________ Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. http://new.toolbar.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/index.php
I have already asked about this - it is very much still being planned, and of course knowing how much this subject is of interest to the community I will make sure to pass along details. On 5 Jun 2007, at 19:45, Danny Younger wrote:
Nick,
The San Juan schedule for Monday 25 June includes "Workshop: Protection of Registrants" at 13:30 - 16:00. Can you find out for us who has arranged this workshop and who the speakers will be?
Thanks, Danny
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Michael Maranda wrote:
This would also be appealing for inclusion of a significant proportion of US population. If we used that criteria we should then also include Mandarin, Greek, Hindi, Italian, and probably a few others.
How often must this subject be re-debated? - Evan
I am stating a view, not engaging in debate. I dont see a reason to state the matter as you have. The percentage of Latino's in Chicago (for example) dwarfs any other non-English linguistic-ethnic group. Would we send them to LAC-RALO? I also dont think there needs to be further barrier to their participation. On 6/5/07, Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org> wrote:
Michael Maranda wrote:
This would also be appealing for inclusion of a significant proportion of US population. If we used that criteria we should then also include Mandarin, Greek, Hindi, Italian, and probably a few others.
How often must this subject be re-debated?
- Evan
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http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss_atlarge-lists.ica... --- Draft MoU with ICANN: http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_MOU
Draft Operating Principles: http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_OP
Draft Code of Conduct: http://www.icannwiki.org/NARALO_Code_of_Conduct
-- --------------------------------------------------------------- Executive Director, CTCNet Chicago Chapter Co-Founder, Chicago Digital Access Alliance Co-Chair, Illinois Community Technology Coalition President, Association For Community Networking Support the efforts of the Chicago Digital Access Alliance: http://www.digitalaccessalliance.org
LAC has spanish in their list, so you'd get those translations from that MoU in any case. On 5 Jun 2007, at 17:08, Jacqueline A. Morris wrote:
Given that Puerto Rico is in NA - should you add Spanish now anyway? There's one ALS from Puerto Rico - ISOC PR. Jacqueline
-----Original Message----- From: John L [mailto:johnl@iecc.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 11:48 AM To: Robert Guerra Cc: NA Discuss Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Voting Update
- Official languages: The USA (as stated by congress) is English, Canada's
official languages (at a federal level) are English and French
The US has no official language. But English is the de facto national language.
In the discussions I've heard, we agreed that if ICANN reorganized the regions to put Mexico into NA, we would add Spanish as a working langauge.
R's, John
_______________________________________________ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss_atlarge- lists.ica nn.org --- Draft MoU with ICANN: http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_MOU
Draft Operating Principles: http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_OP
Draft Code of Conduct: http://www.icannwiki.org/NARALO_Code_of_Conduct
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_______________________________________________ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss_atlarge- lists.icann.org --- Draft MoU with ICANN: http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_MOU
Draft Operating Principles: http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_OP
Draft Code of Conduct: http://www.icannwiki.org/NARALO_Code_of_Conduct
Not necessarily - there will probably be some NA documents that aren't of relevance to LAC, and so wouldn't be translated into Spanish for the use of LAC. JAM -----Original Message----- From: Nick Ashton-Hart [mailto:nick.ashton-hart@icann.org] Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 2:06 PM To: jam@jacquelinemorris.com Cc: 'John L'; 'Robert Guerra'; 'NA Discuss' Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Voting Update LAC has spanish in their list, so you'd get those translations from that MoU in any case. On 5 Jun 2007, at 17:08, Jacqueline A. Morris wrote:
Given that Puerto Rico is in NA - should you add Spanish now anyway? There's one ALS from Puerto Rico - ISOC PR. Jacqueline
-----Original Message----- From: John L [mailto:johnl@iecc.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 11:48 AM To: Robert Guerra Cc: NA Discuss Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Voting Update
- Official languages: The USA (as stated by congress) is English, Canada's
official languages (at a federal level) are English and French
The US has no official language. But English is the de facto national language.
In the discussions I've heard, we agreed that if ICANN reorganized the regions to put Mexico into NA, we would add Spanish as a working langauge.
R's, John
_______________________________________________ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss_atlarge- lists.ica nn.org --- Draft MoU with ICANN: http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_MOU
Draft Operating Principles: http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_OP
Draft Code of Conduct: http://www.icannwiki.org/NARALO_Code_of_Conduct
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_______________________________________________ NA-Discuss mailing list NA-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss_atlarge- lists.icann.org --- Draft MoU with ICANN: http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_MOU
Draft Operating Principles: http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_OP
Draft Code of Conduct: http://www.icannwiki.org/NARALO_Code_of_Conduct
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participants (9)
-
Danny Younger -
Evan Leibovitch -
Jacqueline A. Morris -
John L -
Michael Maranda -
Nick Ashton-Hart -
Robert Guerra -
Ted Ernst -
Thompson, Darlene