Proposed addition to RSSAC001v3 for expectations from RSSAC061
Greetings again. During the RSSAC001v3 work party call yesterday, we discussed possibly adding the expectation from RSSAC061 to RSSAC001v3. There was a discussion about whether to add a new section, new callouts in existing sections, or both. My initial proposal is just the first; here is my proposed text. ===== 3.9 Changing IP Addresses [E.3.9-A] Each RSO is expected to adhere to all of the expectations listed in RSSAC061, "Guidelines for Changing IP Addresses". RSSAC061 gives guidance and expectations for RSOs that have already changed service IP addresses, and for those that will change service IP addresses in the future. The expectations in RSSAC061 are incorporated here by reference. These expectations can affect those already in Sections 3.2 and 3.3 of this document. ===== Comments are welcome. --Paul Hoffman
On May 28, 2025, at 11:34 AM, Paul Hoffman via rssac-caucus <rssac-caucus@icann.org> wrote:
Greetings again. During the RSSAC001v3 work party call yesterday, we discussed possibly adding the expectation from RSSAC061 to RSSAC001v3. There was a discussion about whether to add a new section, new callouts in existing sections, or both. My initial proposal is just the first; here is my proposed text.
===== 3.9 Changing IP Addresses
[E.3.9-A] Each RSO is expected to adhere to all of the expectations listed in RSSAC061, "Guidelines for Changing IP Addresses".
RSSAC061 gives guidance and expectations for RSOs that have already changed service IP addresses, and for those that will change service IP addresses in the future. The expectations in RSSAC061 are incorporated here by reference. These expectations can affect those already in Sections 3.2 and 3.3 of this document. =====
Comments are welcome.
--Paul Hoffman
I could probably live with it, but IMO it would be sufficient to say something shorter, like this: ===== 3.9 Other These other RSSAC publications place additional expectations on RSOs in specific circumstances. * RSSAC061 "Guidelines for Changing IP Addresses” ===== DW
On May 28, 2025, at 14:02, Wessels, Duane via rssac-caucus <rssac-caucus@icann.org> wrote:
On May 28, 2025, at 11:34 AM, Paul Hoffman via rssac-caucus <rssac-caucus@icann.org> wrote:
Greetings again. During the RSSAC001v3 work party call yesterday, we discussed possibly adding the expectation from RSSAC061 to RSSAC001v3. There was a discussion about whether to add a new section, new callouts in existing sections, or both. My initial proposal is just the first; here is my proposed text.
===== 3.9 Changing IP Addresses
[E.3.9-A] Each RSO is expected to adhere to all of the expectations listed in RSSAC061, "Guidelines for Changing IP Addresses".
RSSAC061 gives guidance and expectations for RSOs that have already changed service IP addresses, and for those that will change service IP addresses in the future. The expectations in RSSAC061 are incorporated here by reference. These expectations can affect those already in Sections 3.2 and 3.3 of this document. =====
Comments are welcome.
--Paul Hoffman
I could probably live with it, but IMO it would be sufficient to say something shorter, like this:
=====
3.9 Other
These other RSSAC publications place additional expectations on RSOs in specific circumstances.
* RSSAC061 "Guidelines for Changing IP Addresses”
=====
You would do that without a called-out expectation? That seems lax to me. --Paul Hoffman
3.9 Other
These other RSSAC publications place additional expectations on RSOs in specific circumstances.
* RSSAC061 "Guidelines for Changing IP Addresses”
=====
You would do that without a called-out expectation? That seems lax to me.
This problem is also multi-fold, IMHO. I think Duane's suggestion makes some sense: there are requirements from other RSSAC documents that should also be considered expectations. Including 061, 047, and probably some others. So maybe the list should be generic and point to "RSOs are also expected to conform to expectations defined in other published RSSAC documents" and list the ones that we *know* we mean now, but hint that future documents that define "expectations" about a particular subtopic may appear in the future. Then we will have to argue about which documents have real "expectations" in them. Which brings me to my next point: we could probably have made the expectations in 061 a bit more explicit. You'd have to read it (which isn't necessarily a bad thing) to figure out what is an expectation vs other discussion in the document. -- Wes Hardaker USC/ISI
On May 29, 2025, at 12:12, Wes Hardaker <hardaker@isi.edu> wrote:
3.9 Other
These other RSSAC publications place additional expectations on RSOs in specific circumstances.
* RSSAC061 "Guidelines for Changing IP Addresses”
=====
You would do that without a called-out expectation? That seems lax to me.
This problem is also multi-fold, IMHO.
I think Duane's suggestion makes some sense: there are requirements from other RSSAC documents that should also be considered expectations. Including 061, 047, and probably some others.
Ugh, good point. RSSAC047 does hand-wave at expectations, while cautiously saying that the expectations aren't really expectations yet, but might become so with there is a GS in the future.
So maybe the list should be generic and point to "RSOs are also expected to conform to expectations defined in other published RSSAC documents" and list the ones that we *know* we mean now, but hint that future documents that define "expectations" about a particular subtopic may appear in the future.
That makes the reader of 001v3 have to look other places just to understand what the external expectations are. I'd rather at least have some additional sentences for context. The downside of that is that some readers will read those sentences and think that's all there is to it.
Then we will have to argue about which documents have real "expectations" in them.
I would have put the quotes around "real".
Which brings me to my next point: we could probably have made the expectations in 061 a bit more explicit. You'd have to read it (which isn't necessarily a bad thing) to figure out what is an expectation vs other discussion in the document.
Huh. I thought that the expectations in 061 were quite explicit. Maybe let's start a different thread about updating 061 if it is unclear to you, an RSO. --Paul Hoffman
Huh. I thought that the expectations in 061 were quite explicit. Maybe let's start a different thread about updating 061 if it is unclear to you, an RSO.
Apologies for adding confusion, as that's certainly not what I was trying to imply. I retract my suggestions :-) -- Wes Hardaker USC/ISI
On May 28, 2025, at 2:58 PM, Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@icann.org> wrote:
On May 28, 2025, at 14:02, Wessels, Duane via rssac-caucus <rssac-caucus@icann.org> wrote:
On May 28, 2025, at 11:34 AM, Paul Hoffman via rssac-caucus <rssac-caucus@icann.org> wrote:
Greetings again. During the RSSAC001v3 work party call yesterday, we discussed possibly adding the expectation from RSSAC061 to RSSAC001v3. There was a discussion about whether to add a new section, new callouts in existing sections, or both. My initial proposal is just the first; here is my proposed text.
===== 3.9 Changing IP Addresses
[E.3.9-A] Each RSO is expected to adhere to all of the expectations listed in RSSAC061, "Guidelines for Changing IP Addresses".
RSSAC061 gives guidance and expectations for RSOs that have already changed service IP addresses, and for those that will change service IP addresses in the future. The expectations in RSSAC061 are incorporated here by reference. These expectations can affect those already in Sections 3.2 and 3.3 of this document. =====
Comments are welcome.
--Paul Hoffman
I could probably live with it, but IMO it would be sufficient to say something shorter, like this:
=====
3.9 Other
These other RSSAC publications place additional expectations on RSOs in specific circumstances.
* RSSAC061 "Guidelines for Changing IP Addresses”
=====
You would do that without a called-out expectation? That seems lax to me.
Yes I would. I think it provides sufficient awareness to anyone that needs to be aware of RSSAC061. What is the sort of situation where you think it is not sufficient? DW
On 2025/05/30 16:34, Wessels, Duane via rssac-caucus wrote:
Yes I would. I think it provides sufficient awareness to anyone that needs to be aware of RSSAC061.
What is the sort of situation where you think it is not sufficient?
I'd note also that one of the most signficant expectations in RSSAC061 is that the former root service address will be operated in accordance with the expectations in RSSAC001. This then gets rather circular if we do any more than draw the reader's attention to RSSAC061. Ray
On May 30, 2025, at 08:34, Wessels, Duane <dwessels@verisign.com> wrote:
On May 28, 2025, at 2:58 PM, Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@icann.org> wrote:
On May 28, 2025, at 14:02, Wessels, Duane via rssac-caucus <rssac-caucus@icann.org> wrote:
On May 28, 2025, at 11:34 AM, Paul Hoffman via rssac-caucus <rssac-caucus@icann.org> wrote:
Greetings again. During the RSSAC001v3 work party call yesterday, we discussed possibly adding the expectation from RSSAC061 to RSSAC001v3. There was a discussion about whether to add a new section, new callouts in existing sections, or both. My initial proposal is just the first; here is my proposed text.
===== 3.9 Changing IP Addresses
[E.3.9-A] Each RSO is expected to adhere to all of the expectations listed in RSSAC061, "Guidelines for Changing IP Addresses".
RSSAC061 gives guidance and expectations for RSOs that have already changed service IP addresses, and for those that will change service IP addresses in the future. The expectations in RSSAC061 are incorporated here by reference. These expectations can affect those already in Sections 3.2 and 3.3 of this document. =====
Comments are welcome.
--Paul Hoffman
I could probably live with it, but IMO it would be sufficient to say something shorter, like this:
=====
3.9 Other
These other RSSAC publications place additional expectations on RSOs in specific circumstances.
* RSSAC061 "Guidelines for Changing IP Addresses”
=====
You would do that without a called-out expectation? That seems lax to me.
Yes I would. I think it provides sufficient awareness to anyone that needs to be aware of RSSAC061.
What is the sort of situation where you think it is not sufficient?
Non-RSOs reading 001v3 in order to know what RSOs need to do. The rest of 001v3 lists specific things, and this one addtion would be more general (too general for my tastes). I'm not concerned about RSOs: they all understand that they need to follow all relevant RSSAC publications. But Wes has a good point about expectations from 047. I doubt we can define those very well, so saying "here are other RSSAC documents with expectations" might be sufficient for those readers. I want to add more to that one sentence above, but I've tried a few times and they all sound silly, so maybe your wording and a list that contains 047 and 061 is sufficient. --Paul Hoffman
participants (4)
-
Paul Hoffman -
Ray Bellis -
Wes Hardaker -
Wessels, Duane