Hi, This para on skills is good. avri On 22-Feb-17 20:23, Julie Hammer wrote:
Hi Everyone,
My thinking aligns with Avri’s here. I had been thinking of skills in a very broad way, not just technical skills, and so I had viewed that seeking diversity in skills allowed for a much more inclusive approach. I think it is highly likely that our and Tijani’s sentiments are aligned, but that we are looking at this issue from different perspectives and so we think we are disagreeing.
I had seen Avri’s amendment to para 2.6 and thought her words were good; hence why I did not offer any alternate words. However, reacting to Rafik’s request for me to also provide input, I would like to offer the following as an alternate para 2.6 for consideration:
2.6 *Skills:* Diversity in skills contributes to the quality of ICANN policy formulation, decision making and outreach. It is important to highlight and advocate the advantages of individuals bringing different and diverse skills sets into ICANN's many activities. All activities and groups within ICANN will benefit from having a diverse range of skills available. Outcomes formulated from diverse skills and knowledge will have higher probability of being accepted by a diverse community. Achieving diversity in skills should not be seen as a choice between skills and diversity which excludes participation, but rather one which values many skills sets and facilitates inclusion and broad participation.
Cheers, Julie
On 23 Feb 2017, at 9:15 AM, avri doria <avri@apc.org <mailto:avri@apc.org>> wrote:
Hi,
That may the case with some technical skills, but even then I would not doubt that there are technically skilled people in the South. But in policy that requires an understanding of more that just the technical details, there is no way the the north understands or is more skilled than the South. As for any of the other skills like organizational, economic or law, North, South East or West, seem to be equally skilled and experienced, especially when it comes to specialized knowledge about these things in their regions.
avri
On 22-Feb-17 10:43, Seun Ojedeji wrote:
Hello Avri,
I do think the proportion of skills/experience would be more in regions with higher Internet penetration than those with lower penetration. In context of DNS, I think it's logical that there will be more skilled/experienced people in regions with more Registry/Registrar organisation.
So I think applying skill/experience in diversity should not be based solely on people with "higher" skill/experience rating - inessence skills/experience should be applied in regional context if those two items would play a role in ensuring true diversity.
Regards Sent from my LG G4 Kindly excuse brevity and typos
On Feb 22, 2017 14:28, "avri doria" <avri@acm.org <mailto:avri@acm.org> <mailto:avri@acm.org>> wrote:
Hi,
I disagree that skills and experience are mainly of the Global North. I think that misses the point that diversity is an essential element of skills and experience.
avri
On 22-Feb-17 04:35, Tijani BEN JEMAA wrote:
Thank you Avri for summarizing the discussion on skills in the Diversity Sub-Group.
I agree that diversity requirement should not prevail over skills or experience requirements. But I don’t think that skills and experience are elements of diversity, and find this concept dangerous for the diversity; In fact, as everyone knows, skills and experience are mostly present in the north and if they are taken as elements of diversity, the whole diversity will be flooded and we will end up with the same case of a large majority from the north and almost none from the south.
In my opinion, the choice should be done according to the skill and experience without using very narrow criteria, and in the pool of those skilled persons, we have to apply the diversity rules.
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*Tijani BEN JEMAA* Executive Director Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (*FMAI*) Phone: +216 98 330 114 <tel:%2B216%2098%20330%20114> +216 52 385 114 <tel:%2B216%2052%20385%20114>
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Le 22 févr. 2017 à 05:43, avri doria <avri@acm.org <mailto:avri@acm.org>
<mailto:avri@acm.org>
<mailto:avri@acm.org <mailto:avri@acm.org>>> a écrit :
Hi.
I did take a try in the doc at including this idea.
**
*2.6 Skills: A variety of skill is important since it is a reflection of the diverse skill set available within the ICANN Community.While acknowledging the importance of diversity in the accountability mechanisms, some members of WS2 have expressed their view that diversity requirement should not prevail over skills or experience requirements, but should be an equivalent factor. Others have argued that skills and experience are elements of diversity. Whether diversity is an essential element of skills and experience or skill and experience are elements of diversity ensuring that ICANN is open to diverse participation is essential to fulfilling the range of skills and experience necessary for ICANN. If an original assessment of candidates is not sufficiently diverse to fulfill the skill, experience and diversity requirements necessary, then efforts need to be redoubled until diversity is achieved..*
**
avri
On 21-Feb-17 18:32, Rafik Dammak wrote:
Hi,
just to add that during the last call
(https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=64068802 <https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=64068802>),
we had consensus around the proposal from Avri and that is currently in the document, and getting more input on it. @Julie can you please send/add a text around your suggestion i.e. diversity in skill sets?
Best,
Rafik
2017-02-22 7:43 GMT+09:00 Julie Hammer <julie.hammer@bigpond.com <mailto:julie.hammer@bigpond.com> <mailto:julie.hammer@bigpond.com> <mailto:julie.hammer@bigpond.com <mailto:julie.hammer@bigpond.com>> <mailto:julie.hammer@bigpond.com <mailto:julie.hammer@bigpond.com>>>:
*(To Secretariat Staff: would you please release this email to the list. I do not have posting rights. Many thanks.)*
Also to add to Lousewies’s point and to clarify what I was saying on the call: I was suggesting that we shouldn’t be representing this as skills OR diversity, but rather diversity IN skills sets ie. listing skills as an element of diversity means that we should be seeking to have a diversity of (relevant) skills in whatever context we are discussing. In Lousewies’s example, I think that the argument "they just don't have the skills/experience/background” should be turned around on those proposing it by highlighting and advocating the advantages of having diversity IN the skills set. Different people have different skills and I suggest that all situations/groups benefit from having a range of skills available.
So that is the focus that I was trying to suggest we have in the paragraph in question.
I also look forward to seeing everyone in Copenhagen.
Cheers, Julie
On 21 Feb 2017, at 7:10 PM, Lousewies Vanderlaan <lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>>> wrote:
Just to clarify: I was not supporting the formulation persé, I was wondering that if it is kept, whether that was the right place to do it. It seemed more like a general comment, which pertains to all the elements of diversity rather than one which applies only to the point of skills. It is the traditional way in which those who perpetuate the status quo always argue against the diverse candidate: "they just don't have the skills/experience/background". It will be comforting to those who do not yet see the value of diversity, but I would be more in favor of trying to socialize the concept with those people, so that resistance becomes negligible. It is up to the community to decide whether and when skills trump diversity, but I generally agree with those who have said that this is a false dichotomy. On a personal note, I can tell you from long experience I have often seen very competent women bypassed for top jobs, with the arguments that they lack the skill set. I see the risk for abuse of this "escape clause ". I do not think anyone is advocating for an incompetent person from for example an underrepresented region/gender to take a leadership position. If opponents starts to hammer the competence/skills argument, it can be helpful to call this out. The fact is that we either have enough competent people or we should be educating and grooming enough people in the pipeline so that any gap is temporary and this will become a mute point in the future (perhaps we can make this explicit in the document?) In this regard I believe the document can be very helpful: it will encourage the clear measurement and reporting of diversity throughout the organization, board and the community. Once we have identified where the gaps are we can make sure we put resources in those areas to make sure the "argument" of lack of qualified/skilled people becomes irrelevant. Hoping to see many of you in Copenhagen! Lousewies
…… Sent from my phone. Lousewies van der Laan
On 16 Feb 2017, at 13:56, Fiona Asonga <fasonga@kixp.or.ke <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke> <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke> <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke>> <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke>>> wrote:
Dear Mathieu
Thanks for the feedback. I agree that the increased diversity can actually expand the diversity of skills within ICANN but the pair of the conversation we haven't yet considered is the kind of skills that would constitutes skills diversity. Would it be based purely on work experience or academic qualifications or a combination of both? Both you and Lousewies raise important discussion points and look forwards to further discussions.
Kind regards
Fiona Asonga
*From: *"Mathieu Weill" <mathieu.weill@afnic.fr <mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr> <mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr> <mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr <mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr>> <mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr <mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr>>> *To: *"Rafik Dammak" <rafik.dammak@gmail.com <mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com> <mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com> <mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com <mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com>> <mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com <mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com>>>, "Lousewies Vanderlaan" <lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>>> *Cc: *ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org> <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org> <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org>> <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org>> *Sent: *Wednesday, February 15, 2017 5:19:16 PM *Subject: *Re: [Ws2-diversity] Draft 01 Diversity Report
Dear Colleagues,
I apologize for not being able to make many of the calls, but congratulate the group on the progress on the document.
I did post a comment on the Gdoc, about the following sentence : “While acknowledging the importance of diversity in the accountability mechanisms, members of WS2 have expressed their view that diversity requirement should not prevail over skills or experience requirements.”
Lousewies was supporting the formulation, and I understand where she’s coming from on that, but I personally have an issue with it : it implies that there is a mutually exclusive choice to be made between skills on the one side, diversity on the other. I do not share this view. I contend that increased diversity would actually expand the diversity of skills within ICANN.
What do other group members think about it ?
Whatever the outcome of this discussion, it would be useful to detail exactly what kind of skills we want to look at in terms of skills diversity. Is it legal / technical / market ? Others ?
Best Mathieu
*De :* ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org> <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org> <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org>> <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org>> [mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org> <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org>>] *De la part de* Rafik Dammak *Envoyé :* mardi 14 février 2017 01:03 *À :* Lousewies Vanderlaan *Cc :* ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org> <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org> <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org>> <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org>> *Objet :* Re: [Ws2-diversity] Draft 01 Diversity Report
Dear Lousewies,
Thanks for the comments! I moved the document to this google doc so everyone can comment https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ziy7NDZZd9bW08HOxY-CYUx3qQdno5i9Rqp4fOJt... <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ziy7NDZZd9bW08HOxY-CYUx3qQdno5i9Rqp4fOJt...>
<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ziy7NDZZd9bW08HOxY-CYUx3qQdno5i9Rqp4fOJt... <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ziy7NDZZd9bW08HOxY-CYUx3qQdno5i9Rqp4fOJtAT0>>
, the previous document was in word format . it is in suggestion mode, so you can propose edits and changes. I encourage all members of the subgroup to go through the document and add their suggestions. we will add other parts in coming days.
Best,
Rafik
2017-02-12 5:33 GMT+09:00 Lousewies Vanderlaan <lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>>>:
Dear all, Congratulations on a strong first draft. As you know, as board liaison I have been mostly observing, but I have taken the liberty to make some small comments in the document in a personal capacity. Hope its useful. I look forward to seeing many of you in Copenhagen. best, Lousewies
> On 10 Feb 2017, at 17:23, Fiona Asonga <fasonga@kixp.or.ke > <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke> <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke> > <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke>> <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke>>> wrote: > > Hallo All > > Please find on the link below the first draft of the diversity report with consolidated views that have bee shared and discussed so far on diversity. > > https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzFxffuM3Hx_dUV1OWc0cDg5QWc/view?usp=sharin... <https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzFxffuM3Hx_dUV1OWc0cDg5QWc/view?usp=sharin...>
<https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzFxffuM3Hx_dUV1OWc0cDg5QWc/view?usp=sharin... <https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzFxffuM3Hx_dUV1OWc0cDg5QWc/view?usp=sharing>>
> > Since the discussion on the Global Accounts is still ongoing we have considered the input but would like another round of discussion on the same. > > Please feel free to share your feedback and edits to the document. > > Kind regards > > Fiona and Rafik > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Ws2-diversity mailing list > Ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org> > <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org> > <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org>> <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org>> > https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity> <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity>>
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