Dear Lousewies, Thanks for the comments! I moved the document to this google doc so everyone can comment https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ziy7NDZZd9bW08HOxY-CYUx3qQdno5i9Rqp4fOJt... , the previous document was in word format . it is in suggestion mode, so you can propose edits and changes. I encourage all members of the subgroup to go through the document and add their suggestions. we will add other parts in coming days. Best, Rafik 2017-02-12 5:33 GMT+09:00 Lousewies Vanderlaan < lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>:

Dear all, Congratulations on a strong first draft. As you know, as board liaison I have been mostly observing, but I have taken the liberty to make some small comments in the document in a personal capacity. Hope its useful. I look forward to seeing many of you in Copenhagen. best, Lousewies

...

On 10 Feb 2017, at 17:23, Fiona Asonga <fasonga@kixp.or.ke> wrote:

Hallo All

Please find on the link below the first draft of the diversity report with consolidated views that have bee shared and discussed so far on diversity.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzFxffuM3Hx_dUV1OWc0cDg5QWc/view?usp= sharing

Since the discussion on the Global Accounts is still ongoing we have considered the input but would like another round of discussion on the same.

Please feel free to share your feedback and edits to the document.

Kind regards

Fiona and Rafik

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On 15/02/2017 14:19, Mathieu Weill wrote:

I did post a comment on the Gdoc, about the following sentence :

“While acknowledging the importance of diversity in the accountability mechanisms, members of WS2 have expressed their view that diversity requirement should not prevail over skills or experience requirements.”

Lousewies was supporting the formulation, and I understand where she’s coming from on that, but I personally have an issue with it : it implies that there is a mutually exclusive choice to be made between skills on the one side, diversity on the other. I do not share this view. I contend that increased diversity would actually expand the diversity of skills within ICANN.

What do other group members think about it ?

I suggest we keep the existing text, but add the following on the end of it: "Ensuring that ICANN is open to diverse participation will tend to broaden the range of skills and experience available, but rigid application of diversity requirements for selection could in some cases have the opposite effect, and this should be avoided." -- Malcolm Hutty | tel: +44 20 7645 3523 Head of Public Affairs | Read the LINX Public Affairs blog London Internet Exchange | http://publicaffairs.linx.net/ London Internet Exchange Ltd Monument Place, 24 Monument Street London EC3R 8AJ Company Registered in England No. 3137929 Trinity Court, Trinity Street, Peterborough PE1 1DA

Hello, I agree with Avri's rationale as well. However in order not to have an unending assessment process. I suggest slightly modifying Avri's text to: Ensuring that ICANN is open to diverse participation is essential to fulfilling the range of skills and experience necessary for ICANN. If an original assessment of candidates is not sufficiently diverse to fulfill the skill, experience and diversity requirements necessary, then efforts need to be redoubled until diversity is achieved *as much as possible*. Regards Sent from my LG G4 Kindly excuse brevity and typos On Feb 17, 2017 1:30 AM, "avri doria" <avri@acm.org> wrote:

hi,

Apologies for missing some meetings lately, I have let myself become overloaded.

On 15-Feb-17 16:26, Malcolm Hutty wrote:

...

I suggest we keep the existing text, but add the following on the end of it:

"Ensuring that ICANN is open to diverse participation will tend to broaden the range of skills and experience available, but rigid application of diversity requirements for selection could in some cases have the opposite effect, and this should be avoided."

I would havea severe problem with this oppositional statement. It ignores the fact that diversity is a component of skill and experience. Diverse experience can only be obtained through cultural diversity - people or organizations that are steeped in one culture, especially a dominant culture, do not generally understand the full scope of a problem and do not bring a full or appropriate set of skills and experience, no matter how clever they may be. Proper solutions cannot be found without diversity

Likewise the skill often needed is cross cultural sensitivity which cannot be achieved without full scope of diversity.

The set {skill, experience, diversity} cannot be satisfied without full consideration of the full set. Yes one needs skill and experience, but needs to obtain it from a diverse set of actors, becue a non diverse set will not have the necessary skills and experience in any case. If by rigid you mean living without it, then I will argue for rigid application of diversity criteria. I would go so far as to say that any selection process that does not satisfy diversity has failed and does not meet the conditions for global accountability.

On 16-Feb-17 16:13, Malcolm Hutty wrote:

...

"Ensuring that ICANN is open to diverse participation will tend to broaden the range of skills and experience available, but rigid application of diversity requirements for selection could in some cases have the opposite effect, and this should be avoided."

I cannot accept this formulation either. There should not be any statement disparaging the absolute necessity for diversity in every and all ICANN processes. the presumption that is unstated is the diversity means a less skilled set of applicnts and I find this to be very problematic.

On 16-Feb-17 16:30, Mathieu Weill wrote:

...

Thank you for the feedbacks, and for the various suggestions.

Picking up on your proposal Malcolm, how about :

"Ensuring that ICANN is open to diverse participation will tend to broaden the range of skills and experience available, but rigid application of diversity requirements for selection could in some cases have the opposite effect, and this unintended consequence *needs to be carefully assessed*." (instead of "avoided").

Even this goes to far and leaves it as acceptable to avoid diversity. Someone can always try to spin, and will, the argument and say, we have good people even if they aren't diverse and we are unable to satisfy diversity. In this case the response should be to try harder, not throw up one's hands and say oh well diversity is too hard, do not be so rigid. ICANN is a global organization that is accountable to a diverse world. An accountablty that cannot be met without real diversity.

For me this meets the requirement of a die in the ditch position.

I would prefer something like:

Ensuring that ICANN is open to diverse participation is essential to fulfilling the range of skills and experience necessary for ICANN. If an original assessment of candidates is not sufficiently diverse to fulfill the skill, experience and diversity requirements necessary, then efforts need to be redoubled until diversity is achieved.

No more shrugging and saying: diversity was hard therefore we picked all men from WEOG. This is a failure for ICANN and _MUST_ not be accepted by this group, WS2 or ICANN.

thanks avri

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Hi all, Just a quick note to say that I also support Avri's point, as well as the many excellent comments made by Corinne in the Google doc. Although Corinne will not be able to participate in this afternoon's call, I hope we will consider the issues that she raised in the document. Look forward to more discussion in the call, Rachel On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 8:58 AM, Corinne Cath <corinnecath@gmail.com> wrote:

I fully support all that Avri just said and hope we can update the text accordingly.

Best,

On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 06:09 Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Hello,

I agree with Avri's rationale as well. However in order not to have an unending assessment process. I suggest slightly modifying Avri's text to:

Ensuring that ICANN is open to diverse participation is essential to fulfilling the range of skills and experience necessary for ICANN. If an original assessment of candidates is not sufficiently diverse to fulfill the skill, experience and diversity requirements necessary, then efforts need to be redoubled until diversity is achieved *as much as possible*.

Regards Sent from my LG G4 Kindly excuse brevity and typos

On Feb 17, 2017 1:30 AM, "avri doria" <avri@acm.org> wrote:

hi,

Apologies for missing some meetings lately, I have let myself become overloaded.

On 15-Feb-17 16:26, Malcolm Hutty wrote:

...

I suggest we keep the existing text, but add the following on the end of it:

"Ensuring that ICANN is open to diverse participation will tend to broaden the range of skills and experience available, but rigid application of diversity requirements for selection could in some cases have the opposite effect, and this should be avoided."

I would havea severe problem with this oppositional statement. It ignores the fact that diversity is a component of skill and experience. Diverse experience can only be obtained through cultural diversity - people or organizations that are steeped in one culture, especially a dominant culture, do not generally understand the full scope of a problem and do not bring a full or appropriate set of skills and experience, no matter how clever they may be. Proper solutions cannot be found without diversity

Likewise the skill often needed is cross cultural sensitivity which cannot be achieved without full scope of diversity.

The set {skill, experience, diversity} cannot be satisfied without full consideration of the full set. Yes one needs skill and experience, but needs to obtain it from a diverse set of actors, becue a non diverse set will not have the necessary skills and experience in any case. If by rigid you mean living without it, then I will argue for rigid application of diversity criteria. I would go so far as to say that any selection process that does not satisfy diversity has failed and does not meet the conditions for global accountability.

On 16-Feb-17 16:13, Malcolm Hutty wrote:

...

"Ensuring that ICANN is open to diverse participation will tend to broaden the range of skills and experience available, but rigid application of diversity requirements for selection could in some cases have the opposite effect, and this should be avoided."

I cannot accept this formulation either. There should not be any statement disparaging the absolute necessity for diversity in every and all ICANN processes. the presumption that is unstated is the diversity means a less skilled set of applicnts and I find this to be very problematic.

On 16-Feb-17 16:30, Mathieu Weill wrote:

...

Thank you for the feedbacks, and for the various suggestions.

Picking up on your proposal Malcolm, how about :

"Ensuring that ICANN is open to diverse participation will tend to broaden the range of skills and experience available, but rigid application of diversity requirements for selection could in some cases have the opposite effect, and this unintended consequence *needs to be carefully assessed*." (instead of "avoided").

Even this goes to far and leaves it as acceptable to avoid diversity. Someone can always try to spin, and will, the argument and say, we have good people even if they aren't diverse and we are unable to satisfy diversity. In this case the response should be to try harder, not throw up one's hands and say oh well diversity is too hard, do not be so rigid. ICANN is a global organization that is accountable to a diverse world. An accountablty that cannot be met without real diversity.

For me this meets the requirement of a die in the ditch position.

I would prefer something like:

Ensuring that ICANN is open to diverse participation is essential to fulfilling the range of skills and experience necessary for ICANN. If an original assessment of candidates is not sufficiently diverse to fulfill the skill, experience and diversity requirements necessary, then efforts need to be redoubled until diversity is achieved.

No more shrugging and saying: diversity was hard therefore we picked all men from WEOG. This is a failure for ICANN and _MUST_ not be accepted by this group, WS2 or ICANN.

thanks avri

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Makes sense, and I agree. Thanks! PS: Apologies for the call - Environ doesn't permit. Sent from my LG G4 Kindly excuse brevity and typos On Feb 17, 2017 13:41, "avri doria" <avri@apc.org> wrote:

Hi,

Thanks for supporting the rewording.

I worry about adding wiggle room, which allows the powers that be to ignore the requirement. From the point of view of needing diversity, I think the edit defeats the purpose.

In a sense by not defining quota, which I considered suggesting, we are already giving an implicit bit of wiggle room. I do not support adding the extra phrase and think we should consider adding hard quotas. I think the historical evidence is that without quotas, diversity just does happen because it is always more possible to stick with homogeneity.

avri

On 17-Feb-17 05:09, Seun Ojedeji wrote:

...

Hello,

I agree with Avri's rationale as well. However in order not to have an unending assessment process. I suggest slightly modifying Avri's text to:

Ensuring that ICANN is open to diverse participation is essential to fulfilling the range of skills and experience necessary for ICANN. If an original assessment of candidates is not sufficiently diverse to fulfill the skill, experience and diversity requirements necessary, then efforts need to be redoubled until diversity is achieved *as much as possible*.

Regards Sent from my LG G4 Kindly excuse brevity and typos

On Feb 17, 2017 1:30 AM, "avri doria" <avri@acm.org <mailto:avri@acm.org>> wrote:

hi,

Apologies for missing some meetings lately, I have let myself become overloaded.

On 15-Feb-17 16:26, Malcolm Hutty wrote: > I suggest we keep the existing text, but add the following on the end of it: > > "Ensuring that ICANN is open to diverse participation will tend to > broaden the range of skills and experience available, but rigid > application of diversity requirements for selection could in some cases > have the opposite effect, and this should be avoided."

I would havea severe problem with this oppositional statement. It ignores the fact that diversity is a component of skill and experience. Diverse experience can only be obtained through cultural diversity - people or organizations that are steeped in one culture, especially a dominant culture, do not generally understand the full scope of a problem and do not bring a full or appropriate set of skills and experience, no matter how clever they may be. Proper solutions cannot be found without diversity

Likewise the skill often needed is cross cultural sensitivity which cannot be achieved without full scope of diversity.

The set {skill, experience, diversity} cannot be satisfied without full consideration of the full set. Yes one needs skill and experience, but needs to obtain it from a diverse set of actors, becue a non diverse set will not have the necessary skills and experience in any case. If by rigid you mean living without it, then I will argue for rigid application of diversity criteria. I would go so far as to say that any selection process that does not satisfy diversity has failed and does not meet the conditions for global accountability.

On 16-Feb-17 16:13, Malcolm Hutty wrote: > "Ensuring that ICANN is open to diverse participation will tend to > broaden the range of skills and experience available, but rigid > application of diversity requirements for selection could in some cases > have the opposite effect, and this should be avoided."

I cannot accept this formulation either. There should not be any statement disparaging the absolute necessity for diversity in every and all ICANN processes. the presumption that is unstated is the diversity means a less skilled set of applicnts and I find this to be very problematic.

On 16-Feb-17 16:30, Mathieu Weill wrote: > Thank you for the feedbacks, and for the various suggestions. > > Picking up on your proposal Malcolm, how about : > > "Ensuring that ICANN is open to diverse participation will tend to broaden > the range of skills and experience available, but rigid application of > diversity requirements for selection could in some cases have the opposite > effect, and this unintended consequence *needs to be carefully assessed*." > (instead of "avoided").

Even this goes to far and leaves it as acceptable to avoid diversity. Someone can always try to spin, and will, the argument and say, we have good people even if they aren't diverse and we are unable to satisfy diversity. In this case the response should be to try harder, not throw up one's hands and say oh well diversity is too hard, do not be so rigid. ICANN is a global organization that is accountable to a diverse world. An accountablty that cannot be met without real diversity.

For me this meets the requirement of a die in the ditch position.

I would prefer something like:

Ensuring that ICANN is open to diverse participation is essential to fulfilling the range of skills and experience necessary for ICANN. If an original assessment of candidates is not sufficiently diverse to fulfill the skill, experience and diversity requirements necessary, then efforts need to be redoubled until diversity is achieved.

No more shrugging and saying: diversity was hard therefore we picked all men from WEOG. This is a failure for ICANN and _MUST_ not be accepted by this group, WS2 or ICANN.

thanks avri

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sorry, went out too fast: I wanted to also support Mathieu, Avri and others... thx and apologies Jorge ________________________________ Von: Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch <Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch> Datum: 17. Februar 2017 um 16:58:27 MEZ An: avri@apc.org <avri@apc.org> Cc: ws2-diversity@icann.org <ws2-diversity@icann.org> Betreff: Re: [Ws2-diversity] Draft 01 Diversity Report Apologies for missing too many. alls... ________________________________ Von: avri doria <avri@apc.org> Datum: 17. Februar 2017 um 13:41:16 MEZ Cc: ws2-diversity@icann.org <ws2-diversity@icann.org> Betreff: Re: [Ws2-diversity] Draft 01 Diversity Report Hi, Thanks for supporting the rewording. I worry about adding wiggle room, which allows the powers that be to ignore the requirement. From the point of view of needing diversity, I think the edit defeats the purpose. In a sense by not defining quota, which I considered suggesting, we are already giving an implicit bit of wiggle room. I do not support adding the extra phrase and think we should consider adding hard quotas. I think the historical evidence is that without quotas, diversity just does happen because it is always more possible to stick with homogeneity. avri On 17-Feb-17 05:09, Seun Ojedeji wrote:

Hello,

I agree with Avri's rationale as well. However in order not to have an unending assessment process. I suggest slightly modifying Avri's text to:

Ensuring that ICANN is open to diverse participation is essential to fulfilling the range of skills and experience necessary for ICANN. If an original assessment of candidates is not sufficiently diverse to fulfill the skill, experience and diversity requirements necessary, then efforts need to be redoubled until diversity is achieved *as much as possible*.

Regards Sent from my LG G4 Kindly excuse brevity and typos

On Feb 17, 2017 1:30 AM, "avri doria" <avri@acm.org <mailto:avri@acm.org>> wrote:

hi,

Apologies for missing some meetings lately, I have let myself become overloaded.

On 15-Feb-17 16:26, Malcolm Hutty wrote: > I suggest we keep the existing text, but add the following on the end of it: > > "Ensuring that ICANN is open to diverse participation will tend to > broaden the range of skills and experience available, but rigid > application of diversity requirements for selection could in some cases > have the opposite effect, and this should be avoided."

I would havea severe problem with this oppositional statement. It ignores the fact that diversity is a component of skill and experience. Diverse experience can only be obtained through cultural diversity - people or organizations that are steeped in one culture, especially a dominant culture, do not generally understand the full scope of a problem and do not bring a full or appropriate set of skills and experience, no matter how clever they may be. Proper solutions cannot be found without diversity

Likewise the skill often needed is cross cultural sensitivity which cannot be achieved without full scope of diversity.

The set {skill, experience, diversity} cannot be satisfied without full consideration of the full set. Yes one needs skill and experience, but needs to obtain it from a diverse set of actors, becue a non diverse set will not have the necessary skills and experience in any case. If by rigid you mean living without it, then I will argue for rigid application of diversity criteria. I would go so far as to say that any selection process that does not satisfy diversity has failed and does not meet the conditions for global accountability.

On 16-Feb-17 16:13, Malcolm Hutty wrote: > "Ensuring that ICANN is open to diverse participation will tend to > broaden the range of skills and experience available, but rigid > application of diversity requirements for selection could in some cases > have the opposite effect, and this should be avoided."

I cannot accept this formulation either. There should not be any statement disparaging the absolute necessity for diversity in every and all ICANN processes. the presumption that is unstated is the diversity means a less skilled set of applicnts and I find this to be very problematic.

On 16-Feb-17 16:30, Mathieu Weill wrote: > Thank you for the feedbacks, and for the various suggestions. > > Picking up on your proposal Malcolm, how about : > > "Ensuring that ICANN is open to diverse participation will tend to broaden > the range of skills and experience available, but rigid application of > diversity requirements for selection could in some cases have the opposite > effect, and this unintended consequence *needs to be carefully assessed*." > (instead of "avoided").

Even this goes to far and leaves it as acceptable to avoid diversity. Someone can always try to spin, and will, the argument and say, we have good people even if they aren't diverse and we are unable to satisfy diversity. In this case the response should be to try harder, not throw up one's hands and say oh well diversity is too hard, do not be so rigid. ICANN is a global organization that is accountable to a diverse world. An accountablty that cannot be met without real diversity.

For me this meets the requirement of a die in the ditch position.

I would prefer something like:

Ensuring that ICANN is open to diverse participation is essential to fulfilling the range of skills and experience necessary for ICANN. If an original assessment of candidates is not sufficiently diverse to fulfill the skill, experience and diversity requirements necessary, then efforts need to be redoubled until diversity is achieved.

No more shrugging and saying: diversity was hard therefore we picked all men from WEOG. This is a failure for ICANN and _MUST_ not be accepted by this group, WS2 or ICANN.

thanks avri

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Dear all, I am sorry I won't be able to make the call tomorrow but would like to support the concern raised by Mathieu. It does read like diversity and skills are mutually exclusive. I am sure this is not the intended meaning of this text, as such I would like to suggest we do a minor rewrite and change the text from: “While acknowledging the importance of diversity in the accountability mechanisms, members of WS2 have expressed their view that diversity requirement should not prevail over skills or experience requirements.” to: We acknowledge the importance of diversity, but would like to stress that diversity requirements should always be paired with the appropriate level of skills and experience. Best, On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 12:56 PM, Fiona Asonga <fasonga@kixp.or.ke> wrote:

Dear Mathieu

Thanks for the feedback. I agree that the increased diversity can actually expand the diversity of skills within ICANN but the pair of the conversation we haven't yet considered is the kind of skills that would constitutes skills diversity. Would it be based purely on work experience or academic qualifications or a combination of both? Both you and Lousewies raise important discussion points and look forwards to further discussions.

Kind regards

Fiona Asonga

------------------------------ *From: *"Mathieu Weill" <mathieu.weill@afnic.fr> *To: *"Rafik Dammak" <rafik.dammak@gmail.com>, "Lousewies Vanderlaan" < lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org> *Cc: *ws2-diversity@icann.org *Sent: *Wednesday, February 15, 2017 5:19:16 PM *Subject: *Re: [Ws2-diversity] Draft 01 Diversity Report

Dear Colleagues,

I apologize for not being able to make many of the calls, but congratulate the group on the progress on the document.

I did post a comment on the Gdoc, about the following sentence :

“While acknowledging the importance of diversity in the accountability mechanisms, members of WS2 have expressed their view that diversity requirement should not prevail over skills or experience requirements.”

Lousewies was supporting the formulation, and I understand where she’s coming from on that, but I personally have an issue with it : it implies that there is a mutually exclusive choice to be made between skills on the one side, diversity on the other. I do not share this view. I contend that increased diversity would actually expand the diversity of skills within ICANN.

What do other group members think about it ?

Whatever the outcome of this discussion, it would be useful to detail exactly what kind of skills we want to look at in terms of skills diversity. Is it legal / technical / market ? Others ?

Best

Mathieu

*De :* ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@ icann.org] *De la part de* Rafik Dammak *Envoyé :* mardi 14 février 2017 01:03 *À :* Lousewies Vanderlaan *Cc :* ws2-diversity@icann.org *Objet :* Re: [Ws2-diversity] Draft 01 Diversity Report

Dear Lousewies,

Thanks for the comments!

I moved the document to this google doc so everyone can comment https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ziy7NDZZd9bW08HOxY- CYUx3qQdno5i9Rqp4fOJtAT0 , the previous document was in word format . it is in suggestion mode, so you can propose edits and changes.

I encourage all members of the subgroup to go through the document and add their suggestions. we will add other parts in coming days.

Best,

Rafik

2017-02-12 5:33 GMT+09:00 Lousewies Vanderlaan < lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>:

Dear all, Congratulations on a strong first draft. As you know, as board liaison I have been mostly observing, but I have taken the liberty to make some small comments in the document in a personal capacity. Hope its useful. I look forward to seeing many of you in Copenhagen. best, Lousewies

...

On 10 Feb 2017, at 17:23, Fiona Asonga <fasonga@kixp.or.ke> wrote:

Hallo All

Please find on the link below the first draft of the diversity report with consolidated views that have bee shared and discussed so far on diversity.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzFxffuM3Hx_dUV1OWc0cDg5QWc/view?usp= sharing

Since the discussion on the Global Accounts is still ongoing we have considered the input but would like another round of discussion on the same.

Please feel free to share your feedback and edits to the document.

Kind regards

Fiona and Rafik

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Malcolm, All, Thank you for the feedbacks, and for the various suggestions. Picking up on your proposal Malcolm, how about : "Ensuring that ICANN is open to diverse participation will tend to broaden the range of skills and experience available, but rigid application of diversity requirements for selection could in some cases have the opposite effect, and this unintended consequence *needs to be carefully assessed*." (instead of "avoided"). Since this part of the text is at the "definition" level, we should probably not run into any recommendation type of sentence ? Best Mathieu -----Message d'origine----- De : ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org] De la part de Malcolm Hutty Envoyé : jeudi 16 février 2017 17:13 À : ws2-diversity@icann.org Objet : Re: [Ws2-diversity] Draft 01 Diversity Report On 16/02/2017 13:20, Corinne Cath wrote:

“While acknowledging the importance of diversity in the accountability mechanisms, members of WS2 have expressed their view that diversity requirement should not prevail over skills or experience requirements.”

to:

We acknowledge the importance of diversity, but would like to stress that diversity requirements should always be paired with the appropriate level of skills and experience.

Corinne's suggested text would place diversity requirements on an equal footing with skills and experience requirements. That doesn't really address the concern in the previous text - in fact it nullifies it - while at the same time it also doesn't make the point Mathieu was raising that promoting diversity creates a deeper pool from which to draw skills and experience. Perhaps you would be willing to consider my alternative suggestion, "Ensuring that ICANN is open to diverse participation will tend to broaden the range of skills and experience available, but rigid application of diversity requirements for selection could in some cases have the opposite effect, and this should be avoided." which address both concerns. Best, Malcolm.

Best,

On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 12:56 PM, Fiona Asonga <fasonga@kixp.or.ke <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke>> wrote:

Dear Mathieu

Thanks for the feedback. I agree that the increased diversity can actually expand the diversity of skills within ICANN but the pair of the conversation we haven't yet considered is the kind of skills that would constitutes skills diversity. Would it be based purely on work experience or academic qualifications or a combination of both? Both you and Lousewies raise important discussion points and look forwards to further discussions.

Kind regards

Fiona Asonga

------------------------------------------------------------------------ *From: *"Mathieu Weill" <mathieu.weill@afnic.fr <mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr>> *To: *"Rafik Dammak" <rafik.dammak@gmail.com <mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com>>, "Lousewies Vanderlaan" <lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>> *Cc: *ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org> *Sent: *Wednesday, February 15, 2017 5:19:16 PM *Subject: *Re: [Ws2-diversity] Draft 01 Diversity Report

Dear Colleagues,

I apologize for not being able to make many of the calls, but congratulate the group on the progress on the document.

I did post a comment on the Gdoc, about the following sentence :

“While acknowledging the importance of diversity in the accountability mechanisms, members of WS2 have expressed their view that diversity requirement should not prevail over skills or experience requirements.”

Lousewies was supporting the formulation, and I understand where she’s coming from on that, but I personally have an issue with it : it implies that there is a mutually exclusive choice to be made between skills on the one side, diversity on the other. I do not share this view. I contend that increased diversity would actually expand the diversity of skills within ICANN.

What do other group members think about it ?

Whatever the outcome of this discussion, it would be useful to detail exactly what kind of skills we want to look at in terms of skills diversity. Is it legal / technical / market ? Others ?

Best

Mathieu

*De :*ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org>] *De la part de* Rafik Dammak *Envoyé :* mardi 14 février 2017 01:03 *À :* Lousewies Vanderlaan *Cc :* ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org> *Objet :* Re: [Ws2-diversity] Draft 01 Diversity Report

Dear Lousewies,

Thanks for the comments!

I moved the document to this google doc so everyone can comment

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ziy7NDZZd9bW08HOxY-CYUx3qQdno5i9Rqp4fOJt...

<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ziy7NDZZd9bW08HOxY-CYUx3qQdno5i9Rqp4fOJt...> , the previous document was in word format . it is in suggestion mode, so you can propose edits and changes.

I encourage all members of the subgroup to go through the document and add their suggestions. we will add other parts in coming days.

Best,

Rafik

2017-02-12 5:33 GMT+09:00 Lousewies Vanderlaan <lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>>:

Dear all, Congratulations on a strong first draft. As you know, as board liaison I have been mostly observing, but I have taken the liberty to make some small comments in the document in a personal capacity. Hope its useful. I look forward to seeing many of you in Copenhagen. best, Lousewies

> On 10 Feb 2017, at 17:23, Fiona Asonga <fasonga@kixp.or.ke <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke>> wrote: > > Hallo All > > Please find on the link below the first draft of the diversity report with consolidated views that have bee shared and discussed so far on diversity. > >

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzFxffuM3Hx_dUV1OWc0cDg5QWc/view?usp=sharin...

<https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzFxffuM3Hx_dUV1OWc0cDg5QWc/view?usp=sharin...> > > Since the discussion on the Global Accounts is still ongoing we have considered the input but would like another round of discussion on the same. > > Please feel free to share your feedback and edits to the document. > > Kind regards > > Fiona and Rafik > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Ws2-diversity mailing list > Ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org> > https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity>

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Just to clarify: I was not supporting the formulation persé, I was wondering that if it is kept, whether that was the right place to do it. It seemed more like a general comment, which pertains to all the elements of diversity rather than one which applies only to the point of skills. It is the traditional way in which those who perpetuate the status quo always argue against the diverse candidate: "they just don't have the skills/experience/background". It will be comforting to those who do not yet see the value of diversity, but I would be more in favor of trying to socialize the concept with those people, so that resistance becomes negligible. It is up to the community to decide whether and when skills trump diversity, but I generally agree with those who have said that this is a false dichotomy. On a personal note, I can tell you from long experience I have often seen very competent women bypassed for top jobs, with the arguments that they lack the skill set. I see the risk for abuse of this "escape clause ". I do not think anyone is advocating for an incompetent person from for example an underrepresented region/gender to take a leadership position. If opponents starts to hammer the competence/skills argument, it can be helpful to call this out. The fact is that we either have enough competent people or we should be educating and grooming enough people in the pipeline so that any gap is temporary and this will become a mute point in the future (perhaps we can make this explicit in the document?) In this regard I believe the document can be very helpful: it will encourage the clear measurement and reporting of diversity throughout the organization, board and the community. Once we have identified where the gaps are we can make sure we put resources in those areas to make sure the "argument" of lack of qualified/skilled people becomes irrelevant. Hoping to see many of you in Copenhagen! Lousewies …… Sent from my phone. Lousewies van der Laan On 16 Feb 2017, at 13:56, Fiona Asonga <fasonga@kixp.or.ke> wrote: Dear Mathieu Thanks for the feedback. I agree that the increased diversity can actually expand the diversity of skills within ICANN but the pair of the conversation we haven't yet considered is the kind of skills that would constitutes skills diversity. Would it be based purely on work experience or academic qualifications or a combination of both? Both you and Lousewies raise important discussion points and look forwards to further discussions. Kind regards Fiona Asonga ------------------------------ *From: *"Mathieu Weill" <mathieu.weill@afnic.fr> *To: *"Rafik Dammak" <rafik.dammak@gmail.com>, "Lousewies Vanderlaan" < lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org> *Cc: *ws2-diversity@icann.org *Sent: *Wednesday, February 15, 2017 5:19:16 PM *Subject: *Re: [Ws2-diversity] Draft 01 Diversity Report Dear Colleagues, I apologize for not being able to make many of the calls, but congratulate the group on the progress on the document. I did post a comment on the Gdoc, about the following sentence : “While acknowledging the importance of diversity in the accountability mechanisms, members of WS2 have expressed their view that diversity requirement should not prevail over skills or experience requirements.” Lousewies was supporting the formulation, and I understand where she’s coming from on that, but I personally have an issue with it : it implies that there is a mutually exclusive choice to be made between skills on the one side, diversity on the other. I do not share this view. I contend that increased diversity would actually expand the diversity of skills within ICANN. What do other group members think about it ? Whatever the outcome of this discussion, it would be useful to detail exactly what kind of skills we want to look at in terms of skills diversity. Is it legal / technical / market ? Others ? Best Mathieu *De :* ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org [ mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org <ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org>] *De la part de* Rafik Dammak *Envoyé :* mardi 14 février 2017 01:03 *À :* Lousewies Vanderlaan *Cc :* ws2-diversity@icann.org *Objet :* Re: [Ws2-diversity] Draft 01 Diversity Report Dear Lousewies, Thanks for the comments! I moved the document to this google doc so everyone can comment https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ziy7NDZZd9bW08HOxY-CYUx3qQdno5i9Rqp4fOJt... , the previous document was in word format . it is in suggestion mode, so you can propose edits and changes. I encourage all members of the subgroup to go through the document and add their suggestions. we will add other parts in coming days. Best, Rafik 2017-02-12 5:33 GMT+09:00 Lousewies Vanderlaan < lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>: Dear all, Congratulations on a strong first draft. As you know, as board liaison I have been mostly observing, but I have taken the liberty to make some small comments in the document in a personal capacity. Hope its useful. I look forward to seeing many of you in Copenhagen. best, Lousewies

On 10 Feb 2017, at 17:23, Fiona Asonga <fasonga@kixp.or.ke> wrote:

Hallo All

Please find on the link below the first draft of the diversity report with consolidated views that have bee shared and discussed so far on diversity.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzFxffuM3Hx_dUV1OWc0cDg5QWc/view?usp=sharin...

Since the discussion on the Global Accounts is still ongoing we have

considered the input but would like another round of discussion on the same.

Please feel free to share your feedback and edits to the document.

Kind regards

Fiona and Rafik

-- _______________________________________________ Ws2-diversity mailing list Ws2-diversity@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity

_______________________________________________ Ws2-diversity mailing list Ws2-diversity@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity _______________________________________________ Ws2-diversity mailing list Ws2-diversity@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity -- _______________________________________________ Ws2-diversity mailing list Ws2-diversity@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity

(To Secretariat Staff: would you please release this email to the list. I do not have posting rights. Many thanks.) Also to add to Lousewies’s point and to clarify what I was saying on the call: I was suggesting that we shouldn’t be representing this as skills OR diversity, but rather diversity IN skills sets ie. listing skills as an element of diversity means that we should be seeking to have a diversity of (relevant) skills in whatever context we are discussing. In Lousewies’s example, I think that the argument "they just don't have the skills/experience/background” should be turned around on those proposing it by highlighting and advocating the advantages of having diversity IN the skills set. Different people have different skills and I suggest that all situations/groups benefit from having a range of skills available. So that is the focus that I was trying to suggest we have in the paragraph in question. I also look forward to seeing everyone in Copenhagen. Cheers, Julie On 21 Feb 2017, at 7:10 PM, Lousewies Vanderlaan <lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>> wrote: Just to clarify: I was not supporting the formulation persé, I was wondering that if it is kept, whether that was the right place to do it. It seemed more like a general comment, which pertains to all the elements of diversity rather than one which applies only to the point of skills. It is the traditional way in which those who perpetuate the status quo always argue against the diverse candidate: "they just don't have the skills/experience/background". It will be comforting to those who do not yet see the value of diversity, but I would be more in favor of trying to socialize the concept with those people, so that resistance becomes negligible. It is up to the community to decide whether and when skills trump diversity, but I generally agree with those who have said that this is a false dichotomy. On a personal note, I can tell you from long experience I have often seen very competent women bypassed for top jobs, with the arguments that they lack the skill set. I see the risk for abuse of this "escape clause ". I do not think anyone is advocating for an incompetent person from for example an underrepresented region/gender to take a leadership position. If opponents starts to hammer the competence/skills argument, it can be helpful to call this out. The fact is that we either have enough competent people or we should be educating and grooming enough people in the pipeline so that any gap is temporary and this will become a mute point in the future (perhaps we can make this explicit in the document?) In this regard I believe the document can be very helpful: it will encourage the clear measurement and reporting of diversity throughout the organization, board and the community. Once we have identified where the gaps are we can make sure we put resources in those areas to make sure the "argument" of lack of qualified/skilled people becomes irrelevant. Hoping to see many of you in Copenhagen! Lousewies …… Sent from my phone. Lousewies van der Laan On 16 Feb 2017, at 13:56, Fiona Asonga <fasonga@kixp.or.ke <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke>> wrote:

Dear Mathieu

Thanks for the feedback. I agree that the increased diversity can actually expand the diversity of skills within ICANN but the pair of the conversation we haven't yet considered is the kind of skills that would constitutes skills diversity. Would it be based purely on work experience or academic qualifications or a combination of both? Both you and Lousewies raise important discussion points and look forwards to further discussions.

Kind regards

Fiona Asonga

From: "Mathieu Weill" <mathieu.weill@afnic.fr <mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr>> To: "Rafik Dammak" <rafik.dammak@gmail.com <mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com>>, "Lousewies Vanderlaan" <lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>> Cc: ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 5:19:16 PM Subject: Re: [Ws2-diversity] Draft 01 Diversity Report

Dear Colleagues,

I apologize for not being able to make many of the calls, but congratulate the group on the progress on the document.

I did post a comment on the Gdoc, about the following sentence : “While acknowledging the importance of diversity in the accountability mechanisms, members of WS2 have expressed their view that diversity requirement should not prevail over skills or experience requirements.”

Lousewies was supporting the formulation, and I understand where she’s coming from on that, but I personally have an issue with it : it implies that there is a mutually exclusive choice to be made between skills on the one side, diversity on the other. I do not share this view. I contend that increased diversity would actually expand the diversity of skills within ICANN.

What do other group members think about it ?

Whatever the outcome of this discussion, it would be useful to detail exactly what kind of skills we want to look at in terms of skills diversity. Is it legal / technical / market ? Others ?

Best Mathieu

De : ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org>] De la part de Rafik Dammak Envoyé : mardi 14 février 2017 01:03 À : Lousewies Vanderlaan Cc : ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org> Objet : Re: [Ws2-diversity] Draft 01 Diversity Report

Dear Lousewies,

Thanks for the comments! I moved the document to this google doc so everyone can comment https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ziy7NDZZd9bW08HOxY-CYUx3qQdno5i9Rqp4fOJt... <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ziy7NDZZd9bW08HOxY-CYUx3qQdno5i9Rqp4fOJt...> , the previous document was in word format . it is in suggestion mode, so you can propose edits and changes. I encourage all members of the subgroup to go through the document and add their suggestions. we will add other parts in coming days.

Best,

Rafik

2017-02-12 5:33 GMT+09:00 Lousewies Vanderlaan <lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>>: Dear all, Congratulations on a strong first draft. As you know, as board liaison I have been mostly observing, but I have taken the liberty to make some small comments in the document in a personal capacity. Hope its useful. I look forward to seeing many of you in Copenhagen. best, Lousewies

...

On 10 Feb 2017, at 17:23, Fiona Asonga <fasonga@kixp.or.ke <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke>> wrote:

Hallo All

Please find on the link below the first draft of the diversity report with consolidated views that have bee shared and discussed so far on diversity.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzFxffuM3Hx_dUV1OWc0cDg5QWc/view?usp=sharin... <https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzFxffuM3Hx_dUV1OWc0cDg5QWc/view?usp=sharin...>

Since the discussion on the Global Accounts is still ongoing we have considered the input but would like another round of discussion on the same.

Please feel free to share your feedback and edits to the document.

Kind regards

Fiona and Rafik

-- _______________________________________________ Ws2-diversity mailing list Ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity>

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Hi. I did take a try in the doc at including this idea. ** *2.6 Skills: A variety of skill is important since it is a reflection of the diverse skill set available within the ICANN Community.While acknowledging the importance of diversity in the accountability mechanisms, some members of WS2 have expressed their view that diversity requirement should not prevail over skills or experience requirements, but should be an equivalent factor. Others have argued that skills and experience are elements of diversity. Whether diversity is an essential element of skills and experience or skill and experience are elements of diversity ensuring that ICANN is open to diverse participation is essential to fulfilling the range of skills and experience necessary for ICANN. If an original assessment of candidates is not sufficiently diverse to fulfill the skill, experience and diversity requirements necessary, then efforts need to be redoubled until diversity is achieved..* ** avri On 21-Feb-17 18:32, Rafik Dammak wrote:

Hi,

just to add that during the last call (https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=64068802), we had consensus around the proposal from Avri and that is currently in the document, and getting more input on it. @Julie can you please send/add a text around your suggestion i.e. diversity in skill sets?

Best,

Rafik

2017-02-22 7:43 GMT+09:00 Julie Hammer <julie.hammer@bigpond.com <mailto:julie.hammer@bigpond.com>>:

*(To Secretariat Staff: would you please release this email to the list. I do not have posting rights. Many thanks.)*

Also to add to Lousewies’s point and to clarify what I was saying on the call: I was suggesting that we shouldn’t be representing this as skills OR diversity, but rather diversity IN skills sets ie. listing skills as an element of diversity means that we should be seeking to have a diversity of (relevant) skills in whatever context we are discussing. In Lousewies’s example, I think that the argument "they just don't have the skills/experience/background” should be turned around on those proposing it by highlighting and advocating the advantages of having diversity IN the skills set. Different people have different skills and I suggest that all situations/groups benefit from having a range of skills available.

So that is the focus that I was trying to suggest we have in the paragraph in question.

I also look forward to seeing everyone in Copenhagen.

Cheers, Julie

On 21 Feb 2017, at 7:10 PM, Lousewies Vanderlaan <lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>> wrote:

Just to clarify: I was not supporting the formulation persé, I was wondering that if it is kept, whether that was the right place to do it. It seemed more like a general comment, which pertains to all the elements of diversity rather than one which applies only to the point of skills. It is the traditional way in which those who perpetuate the status quo always argue against the diverse candidate: "they just don't have the skills/experience/background". It will be comforting to those who do not yet see the value of diversity, but I would be more in favor of trying to socialize the concept with those people, so that resistance becomes negligible. It is up to the community to decide whether and when skills trump diversity, but I generally agree with those who have said that this is a false dichotomy. On a personal note, I can tell you from long experience I have often seen very competent women bypassed for top jobs, with the arguments that they lack the skill set. I see the risk for abuse of this "escape clause ". I do not think anyone is advocating for an incompetent person from for example an underrepresented region/gender to take a leadership position. If opponents starts to hammer the competence/skills argument, it can be helpful to call this out. The fact is that we either have enough competent people or we should be educating and grooming enough people in the pipeline so that any gap is temporary and this will become a mute point in the future (perhaps we can make this explicit in the document?) In this regard I believe the document can be very helpful: it will encourage the clear measurement and reporting of diversity throughout the organization, board and the community. Once we have identified where the gaps are we can make sure we put resources in those areas to make sure the "argument" of lack of qualified/skilled people becomes irrelevant. Hoping to see many of you in Copenhagen! Lousewies

…… Sent from my phone. Lousewies van der Laan

On 16 Feb 2017, at 13:56, Fiona Asonga <fasonga@kixp.or.ke <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke>> wrote:

...

Dear Mathieu

Thanks for the feedback. I agree that the increased diversity can actually expand the diversity of skills within ICANN but the pair of the conversation we haven't yet considered is the kind of skills that would constitutes skills diversity. Would it be based purely on work experience or academic qualifications or a combination of both? Both you and Lousewies raise important discussion points and look forwards to further discussions.

Kind regards

Fiona Asonga

------------------------------------------------------------------------ *From: *"Mathieu Weill" <mathieu.weill@afnic.fr <mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr>> *To: *"Rafik Dammak" <rafik.dammak@gmail.com <mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com>>, "Lousewies Vanderlaan" <lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>> *Cc: *ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org> *Sent: *Wednesday, February 15, 2017 5:19:16 PM *Subject: *Re: [Ws2-diversity] Draft 01 Diversity Report

Dear Colleagues,

I apologize for not being able to make many of the calls, but congratulate the group on the progress on the document.

I did post a comment on the Gdoc, about the following sentence : “While acknowledging the importance of diversity in the accountability mechanisms, members of WS2 have expressed their view that diversity requirement should not prevail over skills or experience requirements.”

Lousewies was supporting the formulation, and I understand where she’s coming from on that, but I personally have an issue with it : it implies that there is a mutually exclusive choice to be made between skills on the one side, diversity on the other. I do not share this view. I contend that increased diversity would actually expand the diversity of skills within ICANN.

What do other group members think about it ?

Whatever the outcome of this discussion, it would be useful to detail exactly what kind of skills we want to look at in terms of skills diversity. Is it legal / technical / market ? Others ?

Best Mathieu

*De :* ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org>] *De la part de* Rafik Dammak *Envoyé :* mardi 14 février 2017 01:03 *À :* Lousewies Vanderlaan *Cc :* ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org> *Objet :* Re: [Ws2-diversity] Draft 01 Diversity Report

Dear Lousewies,

Thanks for the comments! I moved the document to this google doc so everyone can comment https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ziy7NDZZd9bW08HOxY-CYUx3qQdno5i9Rqp4fOJt... <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ziy7NDZZd9bW08HOxY-CYUx3qQdno5i9Rqp4fOJt...> , the previous document was in word format . it is in suggestion mode, so you can propose edits and changes. I encourage all members of the subgroup to go through the document and add their suggestions. we will add other parts in coming days.

Best,

Rafik

2017-02-12 5:33 GMT+09:00 Lousewies Vanderlaan <lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>>:

Dear all, Congratulations on a strong first draft. As you know, as board liaison I have been mostly observing, but I have taken the liberty to make some small comments in the document in a personal capacity. Hope its useful. I look forward to seeing many of you in Copenhagen. best, Lousewies

> On 10 Feb 2017, at 17:23, Fiona Asonga <fasonga@kixp.or.ke <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke>> wrote: > > Hallo All > > Please find on the link below the first draft of the diversity report with consolidated views that have bee shared and discussed so far on diversity. > > https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzFxffuM3Hx_dUV1OWc0cDg5QWc/view?usp=sharin... <https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzFxffuM3Hx_dUV1OWc0cDg5QWc/view?usp=sharin...> > > Since the discussion on the Global Accounts is still ongoing we have considered the input but would like another round of discussion on the same. > > Please feel free to share your feedback and edits to the document. > > Kind regards > > Fiona and Rafik > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Ws2-diversity mailing list > Ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org> > https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity>

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Hi, I disagree that skills and experience are mainly of the Global North. I think that misses the point that diversity is an essential element of skills and experience. avri On 22-Feb-17 04:35, Tijani BEN JEMAA wrote:

Thank you Avri for summarizing the discussion on skills in the Diversity Sub-Group.

I agree that diversity requirement should not prevail over skills or experience requirements. But I don’t think that skills and experience are elements of diversity, and find this concept dangerous for the diversity; In fact, as everyone knows, skills and experience are mostly present in the north and if they are taken as elements of diversity, the whole diversity will be flooded and we will end up with the same case of a large majority from the north and almost none from the south.

In my opinion, the choice should be done according to the skill and experience without using very narrow criteria, and in the pool of those skilled persons, we have to apply the diversity rules.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------- *Tijani BEN JEMAA* Executive Director Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (*FMAI*) Phone: +216 98 330 114 +216 52 385 114 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

...

Le 22 févr. 2017 à 05:43, avri doria <avri@acm.org <mailto:avri@acm.org>> a écrit :

Hi.

I did take a try in the doc at including this idea.

**

*2.6 Skills: A variety of skill is important since it is a reflection of the diverse skill set available within the ICANN Community.While acknowledging the importance of diversity in the accountability mechanisms, some members of WS2 have expressed their view that diversity requirement should not prevail over skills or experience requirements, but should be an equivalent factor. Others have argued that skills and experience are elements of diversity. Whether diversity is an essential element of skills and experience or skill and experience are elements of diversity ensuring that ICANN is open to diverse participation is essential to fulfilling the range of skills and experience necessary for ICANN. If an original assessment of candidates is not sufficiently diverse to fulfill the skill, experience and diversity requirements necessary, then efforts need to be redoubled until diversity is achieved..*

**

avri

On 21-Feb-17 18:32, Rafik Dammak wrote:

...

Hi,

just to add that during the last call (https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=64068802), we had consensus around the proposal from Avri and that is currently in the document, and getting more input on it. @Julie can you please send/add a text around your suggestion i.e. diversity in skill sets?

Best,

Rafik

2017-02-22 7:43 GMT+09:00 Julie Hammer <julie.hammer@bigpond.com <mailto:julie.hammer@bigpond.com> <mailto:julie.hammer@bigpond.com>>:

*(To Secretariat Staff: would you please release this email to the list. I do not have posting rights. Many thanks.)*

Also to add to Lousewies’s point and to clarify what I was saying on the call: I was suggesting that we shouldn’t be representing this as skills OR diversity, but rather diversity IN skills sets ie. listing skills as an element of diversity means that we should be seeking to have a diversity of (relevant) skills in whatever context we are discussing. In Lousewies’s example, I think that the argument "they just don't have the skills/experience/background” should be turned around on those proposing it by highlighting and advocating the advantages of having diversity IN the skills set. Different people have different skills and I suggest that all situations/groups benefit from having a range of skills available.

So that is the focus that I was trying to suggest we have in the paragraph in question.

I also look forward to seeing everyone in Copenhagen.

Cheers, Julie

On 21 Feb 2017, at 7:10 PM, Lousewies Vanderlaan <lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>> wrote:

Just to clarify: I was not supporting the formulation persé, I was wondering that if it is kept, whether that was the right place to do it. It seemed more like a general comment, which pertains to all the elements of diversity rather than one which applies only to the point of skills. It is the traditional way in which those who perpetuate the status quo always argue against the diverse candidate: "they just don't have the skills/experience/background". It will be comforting to those who do not yet see the value of diversity, but I would be more in favor of trying to socialize the concept with those people, so that resistance becomes negligible. It is up to the community to decide whether and when skills trump diversity, but I generally agree with those who have said that this is a false dichotomy. On a personal note, I can tell you from long experience I have often seen very competent women bypassed for top jobs, with the arguments that they lack the skill set. I see the risk for abuse of this "escape clause ". I do not think anyone is advocating for an incompetent person from for example an underrepresented region/gender to take a leadership position. If opponents starts to hammer the competence/skills argument, it can be helpful to call this out. The fact is that we either have enough competent people or we should be educating and grooming enough people in the pipeline so that any gap is temporary and this will become a mute point in the future (perhaps we can make this explicit in the document?) In this regard I believe the document can be very helpful: it will encourage the clear measurement and reporting of diversity throughout the organization, board and the community. Once we have identified where the gaps are we can make sure we put resources in those areas to make sure the "argument" of lack of qualified/skilled people becomes irrelevant. Hoping to see many of you in Copenhagen! Lousewies

…… Sent from my phone. Lousewies van der Laan

On 16 Feb 2017, at 13:56, Fiona Asonga <fasonga@kixp.or.ke <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke> <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke>> wrote:

...

Dear Mathieu

Thanks for the feedback. I agree that the increased diversity can actually expand the diversity of skills within ICANN but the pair of the conversation we haven't yet considered is the kind of skills that would constitutes skills diversity. Would it be based purely on work experience or academic qualifications or a combination of both? Both you and Lousewies raise important discussion points and look forwards to further discussions.

Kind regards

Fiona Asonga

------------------------------------------------------------------------ *From: *"Mathieu Weill" <mathieu.weill@afnic.fr <mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr> <mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr>> *To: *"Rafik Dammak" <rafik.dammak@gmail.com <mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com> <mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com>>, "Lousewies Vanderlaan" <lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>> *Cc: *ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org> <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org> *Sent: *Wednesday, February 15, 2017 5:19:16 PM *Subject: *Re: [Ws2-diversity] Draft 01 Diversity Report

Dear Colleagues,

I apologize for not being able to make many of the calls, but congratulate the group on the progress on the document.

I did post a comment on the Gdoc, about the following sentence : “While acknowledging the importance of diversity in the accountability mechanisms, members of WS2 have expressed their view that diversity requirement should not prevail over skills or experience requirements.”

Lousewies was supporting the formulation, and I understand where she’s coming from on that, but I personally have an issue with it : it implies that there is a mutually exclusive choice to be made between skills on the one side, diversity on the other. I do not share this view. I contend that increased diversity would actually expand the diversity of skills within ICANN.

What do other group members think about it ?

Whatever the outcome of this discussion, it would be useful to detail exactly what kind of skills we want to look at in terms of skills diversity. Is it legal / technical / market ? Others ?

Best Mathieu

*De :* ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org> <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org>] *De la part de* Rafik Dammak *Envoyé :* mardi 14 février 2017 01:03 *À :* Lousewies Vanderlaan *Cc :* ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org> <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org> *Objet :* Re: [Ws2-diversity] Draft 01 Diversity Report

Dear Lousewies,

Thanks for the comments! I moved the document to this google doc so everyone can comment https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ziy7NDZZd9bW08HOxY-CYUx3qQdno5i9Rqp4fOJt... <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ziy7NDZZd9bW08HOxY-CYUx3qQdno5i9Rqp4fOJt...> , the previous document was in word format . it is in suggestion mode, so you can propose edits and changes. I encourage all members of the subgroup to go through the document and add their suggestions. we will add other parts in coming days.

Best,

Rafik

2017-02-12 5:33 GMT+09:00 Lousewies Vanderlaan <lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>>:

Dear all, Congratulations on a strong first draft. As you know, as board liaison I have been mostly observing, but I have taken the liberty to make some small comments in the document in a personal capacity. Hope its useful. I look forward to seeing many of you in Copenhagen. best, Lousewies

...

On 10 Feb 2017, at 17:23, Fiona Asonga <fasonga@kixp.or.ke <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke> <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke>> wrote:

Hallo All

Please find on the link below the first draft of the diversity report with consolidated views that have bee shared and discussed so far on diversity.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzFxffuM3Hx_dUV1OWc0cDg5QWc/view?usp=sharin... <https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzFxffuM3Hx_dUV1OWc0cDg5QWc/view?usp=sharin...>

Since the discussion on the Global Accounts is still ongoing we have considered the input but would like another round of discussion on the same.

Please feel free to share your feedback and edits to the document.

Kind regards

Fiona and Rafik

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Hello Avri, I do think the proportion of skills/experience would be more in regions with higher Internet penetration than those with lower penetration. In context of DNS, I think it's logical that there will be more skilled/experienced people in regions with more Registry/Registrar organisation. So I think applying skill/experience in diversity should not be based solely on people with "higher" skill/experience rating - inessence skills/experience should be applied in regional context if those two items would play a role in ensuring true diversity. Regards Sent from my LG G4 Kindly excuse brevity and typos On Feb 22, 2017 14:28, "avri doria" <avri@acm.org> wrote:

Hi,

I disagree that skills and experience are mainly of the Global North. I think that misses the point that diversity is an essential element of skills and experience.

avri

On 22-Feb-17 04:35, Tijani BEN JEMAA wrote:

...

Thank you Avri for summarizing the discussion on skills in the Diversity Sub-Group.

I agree that diversity requirement should not prevail over skills or experience requirements. But I don’t think that skills and experience are elements of diversity, and find this concept dangerous for the diversity; In fact, as everyone knows, skills and experience are mostly present in the north and if they are taken as elements of diversity, the whole diversity will be flooded and we will end up with the same case of a large majority from the north and almost none from the south.

In my opinion, the choice should be done according to the skill and experience without using very narrow criteria, and in the pool of those skilled persons, we have to apply the diversity rules.

------------------------------------------------------------

---

...

*Tijani BEN JEMAA* Executive Director Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (*FMAI*) Phone: +216 98 330 114 +216 52 385 114 ------------------------------------------------------------

---

...

...

Le 22 févr. 2017 à 05:43, avri doria <avri@acm.org <mailto:avri@acm.org>> a écrit :

Hi.

I did take a try in the doc at including this idea.

**

*2.6 Skills: A variety of skill is important since it is a reflection of the diverse skill set available within the ICANN Community.While acknowledging the importance of diversity in the accountability mechanisms, some members of WS2 have expressed their view that diversity requirement should not prevail over skills or experience requirements, but should be an equivalent factor. Others have argued that skills and experience are elements of diversity. Whether diversity is an essential element of skills and experience or skill and experience are elements of diversity ensuring that ICANN is open to diverse participation is essential to fulfilling the range of skills and experience necessary for ICANN. If an original assessment of candidates is not sufficiently diverse to fulfill the skill, experience and diversity requirements necessary, then efforts need to be redoubled until diversity is achieved..*

**

avri

On 21-Feb-17 18:32, Rafik Dammak wrote:

...

Hi,

just to add that during the last call (https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=64068802), we had consensus around the proposal from Avri and that is currently in the document, and getting more input on it. @Julie can you please send/add a text around your suggestion i.e. diversity in skill sets?

Best,

Rafik

2017-02-22 7:43 GMT+09:00 Julie Hammer <julie.hammer@bigpond.com <mailto:julie.hammer@bigpond.com> <mailto:julie.hammer@bigpond.com>>:

*(To Secretariat Staff: would you please release this email to the list. I do not have posting rights. Many thanks.)*

Also to add to Lousewies’s point and to clarify what I was saying on the call: I was suggesting that we shouldn’t be representing this as skills OR diversity, but rather diversity IN skills sets ie. listing skills as an element of diversity means that we should be seeking to have a diversity of (relevant) skills in whatever context we are discussing. In Lousewies’s example, I think that the argument "they just don't have the skills/experience/background” should be turned around on those proposing it by highlighting and advocating the advantages of having diversity IN the skills set. Different people have different skills and I suggest that all situations/groups benefit from having a range of skills available.

So that is the focus that I was trying to suggest we have in the paragraph in question.

I also look forward to seeing everyone in Copenhagen.

Cheers, Julie

On 21 Feb 2017, at 7:10 PM, Lousewies Vanderlaan <lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>> wrote:

Just to clarify: I was not supporting the formulation persé, I was wondering that if it is kept, whether that was the right place to do it. It seemed more like a general comment, which pertains to all the elements of diversity rather than one which applies only to the point of skills. It is the traditional way in which those who perpetuate the status quo always argue against the diverse candidate: "they just don't have the skills/experience/background". It will be comforting to those who do not yet see the value of diversity, but I would be more in favor of trying to socialize the concept with those people, so that resistance becomes negligible. It is up to the community to decide whether and when skills trump diversity, but I generally agree with those who have said that this is a false dichotomy. On a personal note, I can tell you from long experience I have often seen very competent women bypassed for top jobs, with the arguments that they lack the skill set. I see the risk for abuse of this "escape clause ". I do not think anyone is advocating for an incompetent person from for example an underrepresented region/gender to take a leadership position. If opponents starts to hammer the competence/skills argument, it can be helpful to call this out. The fact is that we either have enough competent people or we should be educating and grooming enough people in the pipeline so that any gap is temporary and this will become a mute point in the future (perhaps we can make this explicit in the document?) In this regard I believe the document can be very helpful: it will encourage the clear measurement and reporting of diversity throughout the organization, board and the community. Once we have identified where the gaps are we can make sure we put resources in those areas to make sure the "argument" of lack of qualified/skilled people becomes irrelevant. Hoping to see many of you in Copenhagen! Lousewies

…… Sent from my phone. Lousewies van der Laan

On 16 Feb 2017, at 13:56, Fiona Asonga <fasonga@kixp.or.ke <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke> <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke>> wrote:

...

Dear Mathieu

Thanks for the feedback. I agree that the increased diversity can actually expand the diversity of skills within ICANN but the pair of the conversation we haven't yet considered is the kind of skills that would constitutes skills diversity. Would it be based purely on work experience or academic qualifications or a combination of both? Both you and Lousewies raise important discussion points and look forwards to further discussions.

Kind regards

Fiona Asonga

------------------------------------------------------------

------------

...

...

...

...

*From: *"Mathieu Weill" <mathieu.weill@afnic.fr <mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr> <mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr>> *To: *"Rafik Dammak" <rafik.dammak@gmail.com <mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com> <mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com>>, "Lousewies Vanderlaan" <lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>> *Cc: *ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org> <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org> *Sent: *Wednesday, February 15, 2017 5:19:16 PM *Subject: *Re: [Ws2-diversity] Draft 01 Diversity Report

Dear Colleagues,

I apologize for not being able to make many of the calls, but congratulate the group on the progress on the document.

I did post a comment on the Gdoc, about the following sentence : “While acknowledging the importance of diversity in the accountability mechanisms, members of WS2 have expressed their view that diversity requirement should not prevail over skills or experience requirements.”

Lousewies was supporting the formulation, and I understand where she’s coming from on that, but I personally have an issue with it : it implies that there is a mutually exclusive choice to be made between skills on the one side, diversity on the other. I do not share this view. I contend that increased diversity would actually expand the diversity of skills within ICANN.

What do other group members think about it ?

Whatever the outcome of this discussion, it would be useful to detail exactly what kind of skills we want to look at in terms of skills diversity. Is it legal / technical / market ? Others ?

Best Mathieu

*De :* ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org> <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org>] *De la part de* Rafik Dammak *Envoyé :* mardi 14 février 2017 01:03 *À :* Lousewies Vanderlaan *Cc :* ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org> <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org> *Objet :* Re: [Ws2-diversity] Draft 01 Diversity Report

Dear Lousewies,

Thanks for the comments! I moved the document to this google doc so everyone can comment https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ziy7NDZZd9bW08HOxY- CYUx3qQdno5i9Rqp4fOJtAT0 <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ziy7NDZZd9bW08HOxY- CYUx3qQdno5i9Rqp4fOJtAT0> , the previous document was in word format . it is in suggestion mode, so you can propose edits and changes. I encourage all members of the subgroup to go through the document and add their suggestions. we will add other parts in coming days.

Best,

Rafik

2017-02-12 5:33 GMT+09:00 Lousewies Vanderlaan <lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>>:

Dear all, Congratulations on a strong first draft. As you know, as board liaison I have been mostly observing, but I have taken the liberty to make some small comments in the document in a personal capacity. Hope its useful. I look forward to seeing many of you in Copenhagen. best, Lousewies

...

On 10 Feb 2017, at 17:23, Fiona Asonga <fasonga@kixp.or.ke <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke> <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke>> wrote:

Hallo All

Please find on the link below the first draft of the diversity report with consolidated views that have bee shared and discussed so far on diversity.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzFxffuM3Hx_ dUV1OWc0cDg5QWc/view?usp=sharing <https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzFxffuM3Hx_ dUV1OWc0cDg5QWc/view?usp=sharing>

Since the discussion on the Global Accounts is still ongoing we have considered the input but would like another round of discussion on the same.

Please feel free to share your feedback and edits to the document.

Kind regards

Fiona and Rafik

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Hi Everyone, My thinking aligns with Avri’s here. I had been thinking of skills in a very broad way, not just technical skills, and so I had viewed that seeking diversity in skills allowed for a much more inclusive approach. I think it is highly likely that our and Tijani’s sentiments are aligned, but that we are looking at this issue from different perspectives and so we think we are disagreeing. I had seen Avri’s amendment to para 2.6 and thought her words were good; hence why I did not offer any alternate words. However, reacting to Rafik’s request for me to also provide input, I would like to offer the following as an alternate para 2.6 for consideration: 2.6 Skills: Diversity in skills contributes to the quality of ICANN policy formulation, decision making and outreach. It is important to highlight and advocate the advantages of individuals bringing different and diverse skills sets into ICANN's many activities. All activities and groups within ICANN will benefit from having a diverse range of skills available. Outcomes formulated from diverse skills and knowledge will have higher probability of being accepted by a diverse community. Achieving diversity in skills should not be seen as a choice between skills and diversity which excludes participation, but rather one which values many skills sets and facilitates inclusion and broad participation. Cheers, Julie On 23 Feb 2017, at 9:15 AM, avri doria <avri@apc.org <mailto:avri@apc.org>> wrote: Hi, That may the case with some technical skills, but even then I would not doubt that there are technically skilled people in the South. But in policy that requires an understanding of more that just the technical details, there is no way the the north understands or is more skilled than the South. As for any of the other skills like organizational, economic or law, North, South East or West, seem to be equally skilled and experienced, especially when it comes to specialized knowledge about these things in their regions. avri On 22-Feb-17 10:43, Seun Ojedeji wrote:

Hello Avri,

I do think the proportion of skills/experience would be more in regions with higher Internet penetration than those with lower penetration. In context of DNS, I think it's logical that there will be more skilled/experienced people in regions with more Registry/Registrar organisation.

So I think applying skill/experience in diversity should not be based solely on people with "higher" skill/experience rating - inessence skills/experience should be applied in regional context if those two items would play a role in ensuring true diversity.

Regards Sent from my LG G4 Kindly excuse brevity and typos

On Feb 22, 2017 14:28, "avri doria" <avri@acm.org <mailto:avri@acm.org> <mailto:avri@acm.org <mailto:avri@acm.org>>> wrote:

Hi,

I disagree that skills and experience are mainly of the Global North. I think that misses the point that diversity is an essential element of skills and experience.

avri

On 22-Feb-17 04:35, Tijani BEN JEMAA wrote:

...

Thank you Avri for summarizing the discussion on skills in the Diversity Sub-Group.

I agree that diversity requirement should not prevail over skills or experience requirements. But I don’t think that skills and experience are elements of diversity, and find this concept dangerous for the diversity; In fact, as everyone knows, skills and experience are mostly present in the north and if they are taken as elements of diversity, the whole diversity will be flooded and we will end up with the same case of a large majority from the north and almost none from the south.

In my opinion, the choice should be done according to the skill and experience without using very narrow criteria, and in the pool of those skilled persons, we have to apply the diversity rules.

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*Tijani BEN JEMAA* Executive Director Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (*FMAI*) Phone: +216 98 330 114 <tel:%2B216%2098%20330%20114 <tel:%2B216%2098%20330%20114>> +216 52 385 114 <tel:%2B216%2052%20385%20114 <tel:%2B216%2052%20385%20114>>

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Le 22 févr. 2017 à 05:43, avri doria <avri@acm.org <mailto:avri@acm.org>

<mailto:avri@acm.org <mailto:avri@acm.org>>

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<mailto:avri@acm.org <mailto:avri@acm.org> <mailto:avri@acm.org <mailto:avri@acm.org>>>> a écrit :

Hi.

I did take a try in the doc at including this idea.

**

*2.6 Skills: A variety of skill is important since it is a reflection of the diverse skill set available within the ICANN Community.While acknowledging the importance of diversity in the accountability mechanisms, some members of WS2 have expressed their view that diversity requirement should not prevail over skills or experience requirements, but should be an equivalent factor. Others have argued that skills and experience are elements of diversity. Whether diversity is an essential element of skills and experience or skill and experience are elements of diversity ensuring that ICANN is open to diverse participation is essential to fulfilling the range of skills and experience necessary for ICANN. If an original assessment of candidates is not sufficiently diverse to fulfill the skill, experience and diversity requirements necessary, then efforts need to be redoubled until diversity is achieved..*

**

avri

On 21-Feb-17 18:32, Rafik Dammak wrote:

...

Hi,

just to add that during the last call

(https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=64068802 <https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=64068802> <https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=64068802 <https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=64068802>>),

...

we had consensus around the proposal from Avri and that is currently in the document, and getting more input on it. @Julie can you please send/add a text around your suggestion i.e. diversity in skill sets?

Best,

Rafik

2017-02-22 7:43 GMT+09:00 Julie Hammer <julie.hammer@bigpond.com <mailto:julie.hammer@bigpond.com> <mailto:julie.hammer@bigpond.com <mailto:julie.hammer@bigpond.com>> <mailto:julie.hammer@bigpond.com <mailto:julie.hammer@bigpond.com> <mailto:julie.hammer@bigpond.com <mailto:julie.hammer@bigpond.com>>> <mailto:julie.hammer@bigpond.com <mailto:julie.hammer@bigpond.com> <mailto:julie.hammer@bigpond.com <mailto:julie.hammer@bigpond.com>>>>:

*(To Secretariat Staff: would you please release this email to the list. I do not have posting rights. Many thanks.)*

Also to add to Lousewies’s point and to clarify what I was saying on the call: I was suggesting that we shouldn’t be representing this as skills OR diversity, but rather diversity IN skills sets ie. listing skills as an element of diversity means that we should be seeking to have a diversity of (relevant) skills in whatever context we are discussing. In Lousewies’s example, I think that the argument "they just don't have the skills/experience/background” should be turned around on those proposing it by highlighting and advocating the advantages of having diversity IN the skills set. Different people have different skills and I suggest that all situations/groups benefit from having a range of skills available.

So that is the focus that I was trying to suggest we have in the paragraph in question.

I also look forward to seeing everyone in Copenhagen.

Cheers, Julie

On 21 Feb 2017, at 7:10 PM, Lousewies Vanderlaan <lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>>> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>>>> wrote:

Just to clarify: I was not supporting the formulation persé, I was wondering that if it is kept, whether that was the right place to do it. It seemed more like a general comment, which pertains to all the elements of diversity rather than one which applies only to the point of skills. It is the traditional way in which those who perpetuate the status quo always argue against the diverse candidate: "they just don't have the skills/experience/background". It will be comforting to those who do not yet see the value of diversity, but I would be more in favor of trying to socialize the concept with those people, so that resistance becomes negligible. It is up to the community to decide whether and when skills trump diversity, but I generally agree with those who have said that this is a false dichotomy. On a personal note, I can tell you from long experience I have often seen very competent women bypassed for top jobs, with the arguments that they lack the skill set. I see the risk for abuse of this "escape clause ". I do not think anyone is advocating for an incompetent person from for example an underrepresented region/gender to take a leadership position. If opponents starts to hammer the competence/skills argument, it can be helpful to call this out. The fact is that we either have enough competent people or we should be educating and grooming enough people in the pipeline so that any gap is temporary and this will become a mute point in the future (perhaps we can make this explicit in the document?) In this regard I believe the document can be very helpful: it will encourage the clear measurement and reporting of diversity throughout the organization, board and the community. Once we have identified where the gaps are we can make sure we put resources in those areas to make sure the "argument" of lack of qualified/skilled people becomes irrelevant. Hoping to see many of you in Copenhagen! Lousewies

…… Sent from my phone. Lousewies van der Laan

On 16 Feb 2017, at 13:56, Fiona Asonga <fasonga@kixp.or.ke <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke> <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke>> <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke> <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke>>> <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke> <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke>>>> wrote:

...

Dear Mathieu

Thanks for the feedback. I agree that the increased diversity can actually expand the diversity of skills within ICANN but the pair of the conversation we haven't yet considered is the kind of skills that would constitutes skills diversity. Would it be based purely on work experience or academic qualifications or a combination of both? Both you and Lousewies raise important discussion points and look forwards to further discussions.

Kind regards

Fiona Asonga

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*From: *"Mathieu Weill" <mathieu.weill@afnic.fr <mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr> <mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr <mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr>> <mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr <mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr> <mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr <mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr>>> <mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr <mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr> <mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr <mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr>>>> *To: *"Rafik Dammak" <rafik.dammak@gmail.com <mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com> <mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com <mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com>> <mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com <mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com> <mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com <mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com>>> <mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com <mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com> <mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com <mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com>>>>, "Lousewies Vanderlaan" <lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>>> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>>>> *Cc: *ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org> <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org>> <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org> <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org>>> <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org> <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org>>> *Sent: *Wednesday, February 15, 2017 5:19:16 PM *Subject: *Re: [Ws2-diversity] Draft 01 Diversity Report

Dear Colleagues,

I apologize for not being able to make many of the calls, but congratulate the group on the progress on the document.

I did post a comment on the Gdoc, about the following sentence : “While acknowledging the importance of diversity in the accountability mechanisms, members of WS2 have expressed their view that diversity requirement should not prevail over skills or experience requirements.”

Lousewies was supporting the formulation, and I understand where she’s coming from on that, but I personally have an issue with it : it implies that there is a mutually exclusive choice to be made between skills on the one side, diversity on the other. I do not share this view. I contend that increased diversity would actually expand the diversity of skills within ICANN.

What do other group members think about it ?

Whatever the outcome of this discussion, it would be useful to detail exactly what kind of skills we want to look at in terms of skills diversity. Is it legal / technical / market ? Others ?

Best Mathieu

*De :* ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org> <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org>> <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org> <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org>>> <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org> <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org>>> [mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org> <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org>> <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org> <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org>>>] *De la part de* Rafik Dammak *Envoyé :* mardi 14 février 2017 01:03 *À :* Lousewies Vanderlaan *Cc :* ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org> <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org>> <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org> <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org>>> <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org> <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org>>> *Objet :* Re: [Ws2-diversity] Draft 01 Diversity Report

Dear Lousewies,

Thanks for the comments! I moved the document to this google doc so everyone can comment https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ziy7NDZZd9bW08HOxY-CYUx3qQdno5i9Rqp4fOJt... <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ziy7NDZZd9bW08HOxY-CYUx3qQdno5i9Rqp4fOJt...> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ziy7NDZZd9bW08HOxY-CYUx3qQdno5i9Rqp4fOJt... <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ziy7NDZZd9bW08HOxY-CYUx3qQdno5i9Rqp4fOJtAT0>>

<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ziy7NDZZd9bW08HOxY-CYUx3qQdno5i9Rqp4fOJt... <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ziy7NDZZd9bW08HOxY-CYUx3qQdno5i9Rqp4fOJt...> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ziy7NDZZd9bW08HOxY-CYUx3qQdno5i9Rqp4fOJt... <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ziy7NDZZd9bW08HOxY-CYUx3qQdno5i9Rqp4fOJtAT0>>>

...

, the previous document was in word format . it is in suggestion mode, so you can propose edits and changes. I encourage all members of the subgroup to go through the document and add their suggestions. we will add other parts in coming days.

Best,

Rafik

2017-02-12 5:33 GMT+09:00 Lousewies Vanderlaan <lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>>> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>>>>:

Dear all, Congratulations on a strong first draft. As you know, as board liaison I have been mostly observing, but I have taken the liberty to make some small comments in the document in a personal capacity. Hope its useful. I look forward to seeing many of you in Copenhagen. best, Lousewies

...

On 10 Feb 2017, at 17:23, Fiona Asonga <fasonga@kixp.or.ke <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke> <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke>> <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke> <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke>>> <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke> <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke>>>> wrote:

Hallo All

Please find on the link below the first draft of the diversity report with consolidated views that have bee shared and discussed so far on diversity.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzFxffuM3Hx_dUV1OWc0cDg5QWc/view?usp=sharin... <https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzFxffuM3Hx_dUV1OWc0cDg5QWc/view?usp=sharin...> <https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzFxffuM3Hx_dUV1OWc0cDg5QWc/view?usp=sharin... <https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzFxffuM3Hx_dUV1OWc0cDg5QWc/view?usp=sharing>>

<https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzFxffuM3Hx_dUV1OWc0cDg5QWc/view?usp=sharin... <https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzFxffuM3Hx_dUV1OWc0cDg5QWc/view?usp=sharin...> <https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzFxffuM3Hx_dUV1OWc0cDg5QWc/view?usp=sharin... <https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzFxffuM3Hx_dUV1OWc0cDg5QWc/view?usp=sharing>>>

...

...

Since the discussion on the Global Accounts is still ongoing we

have considered the input but would like another round of discussion on the same.

...

Please feel free to share your feedback and edits to the

document.

...

Kind regards

Fiona and Rafik

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Is this really what you think? Sounds like the accusation we hear in the US all the time these days. avri On 23-Feb-17 06:34, Malcolm Hutty wrote:

I was getting the impression that this groups' fundamental understanding of the term "diversity" is to exclude white people and men from consideration for certain positions, on the grounds that we've got too many of them already.

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Hi, I think your understanding of quota differs from mine. When the majority do not include diversity, quota are often the only solution. It by no means prevents those with the majority aspects from being included. I live in the US and am used to such accusations, so they do not make me uncomfortable. They are not truth, though perhaps count as an alternate truth. Not sure. I think this report does take a diverse region outlook and am surprised you do not see that. avri On 23-Feb-17 07:56, Malcolm Hutty wrote:

On 23/02/2017 12:37, avri doria wrote:

...

Is this really what you think?

Sounds like the accusation we hear in the US all the time these days. It's certainly what I think of what you've said Avri. You've explicitly mentioned support in principle for "hard quotas", although you've stopped short of directly calling for that to be included in the report. Hard quotas for race and sex absolutely and unquestionably define certain people as ineligible because of their race or sex.

You may find it uncomfortable for me to point this out, but that doesn't make it any less true.

I'm less certain whether the group really stands behind your point of view, which is why I said what I said in the form of a question.

I would greatly prefer that this report included a commitment to avoid discrimination on the grounds of race or sex (and not just to stop there). I would also wish that this report focused our attention on outreach to less represented regions. Both aspects would combine to fulfil an overarching principle that all should be welcome at ICANN, and that ICANN should take practical steps to assist those who would wish to participate, but find it less easy to do so.

Since this report does not take that focus, I would like to know why. I would like to know whether it is because the group prefers to prioritise shifting group representation over assisting individual participation, and indeed over even-handed treatment for those individuals who do volunteer. If that is not the reason, I would like to know why else the two strands I mention have been omitted.

Malcolm.

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Dear Malcolm, First, speaking as a member of this subgroup, I want to sincerely thank you for staying engaged and expressing your views within this group. While our views differ, it is critical that we keep this dialogue open and constructive. I certainly do not see any of the current recommendations as sexual or racial discrimination, and would happily support additional recommendations to enhance commitments against any such discrimination. I suspect we would differ on what constitutes discrimination and that would be worth discussing further. I also would welcome your suggestions about how to enhance outreach in order for them to effectively increase diversity. Can you elaborate on these proposals ? Best Mathieu -----Message d'origine----- De : ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org] De la part de Malcolm Hutty Envoyé : jeudi 23 février 2017 12:35 À : ws2-diversity@icann.org Objet : Re: [Ws2-diversity] Draft 01 Diversity Report On 23/02/2017 01:23, Julie Hammer wrote:

Achieving diversity in skills should not be seen as a choice between skills and diversity which excludes participation, but rather one which values many skills sets and facilitates inclusion and broad participation.

I'm not sure I understand this sentence. I was getting the impression that this groups' fundamental understanding of the term "diversity" is to exclude white people and men from consideration for certain positions, on the grounds that we've got too many of them already. I assumed this is why the diversity report omits what I would have thought was the most obvious expectation, a commitment to avoid racial or sexual discrimination. Am I mistaken? If so, why is there no such commitment? Malcolm -- Malcolm Hutty | tel: +44 20 7645 3523 Head of Public Affairs | Read the LINX Public Affairs blog London Internet Exchange | http://publicaffairs.linx.net/ London Internet Exchange Ltd Monument Place, 24 Monument Street London EC3R 8AJ Company Registered in England No. 3137929 Trinity Court, Trinity Street, Peterborough PE1 1DA _______________________________________________ Ws2-diversity mailing list Ws2-diversity@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity

On 23-Feb-17 12:39, Malcolm Hutty wrote:

I would like to see a clear commitment that discrimination on the grounds of race, sex, etc should not be tolerated at ICANN.

1. i am comfortable with that as long as we also include sexual orientation and gender expression. 2. we should remember that this is good but not enough (necessary but not sufficinet), as i could fill the broadest diversity of skill, experience, race, gender, national origin, sexual preference, and gender orientation without ever leaving NYC. I think that regional diversity is also critical and that needs to be mandated. As for quotas , I said I was not recommending them at this time. But what I have seen with gender discrimination, let alone regional discrimination in some parts of ICANN does inspire me to want to introduce gender and regional quotas. of what ever race or sexual expression. avri --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

I agree with adding sexual orientation to the grounds of non-discrimination, but am not familiar withe term “gender expression”. In human rights circles “gender identity” is the term used most frequently, and I had always assumed that was a matter of (personal) expression as well. I am fine with either, as long as people know what it means (I have taken some time to explain the difference between sexual orientation and gender identity to the board and it is a foreign concept to many people, regardless of regional background). On a more general note the question is do we list all the possible grounds of discrimination (at the risk of missing some) or do we say “no discrimination on ANY grounds” and add an explanatory or illustrative note/footnote somewhere? No discrimination is the absolute minimum and I am wondering if we can of further? “All parts of the ICANN community will/aim to work in a welcoming, inclusive, non-discriminatory way, in order to achieve (maximum) diversity that reflects the diverse/inclusive nature of the multi-stakeholder model” - or something like that? Catch you on the call (which I will take from a car audio only), Lousewies

On 23 Feb 2017, at 22:19, avri doria <avri@apc.org> wrote:

On 23-Feb-17 12:39, Malcolm Hutty wrote:

...

I would like to see a clear commitment that discrimination on the grounds of race, sex, etc should not be tolerated at ICANN.

1. i am comfortable with that as long as we also include sexual orientation and gender expression.

2. we should remember that this is good but not enough (necessary but not sufficinet), as i could fill the broadest diversity of skill, experience, race, gender, national origin, sexual preference, and gender orientation without ever leaving NYC. I think that regional diversity is also critical and that needs to be mandated.

As for quotas , I said I was not recommending them at this time. But what I have seen with gender discrimination, let alone regional discrimination in some parts of ICANN does inspire me to want to introduce gender and regional quotas. of what ever race or sexual expression.

avri

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Hello Avri, I have no doubt there are skilled people globally. You see there is a small joke about a firm who put a call for employment for graduates and then adds a requirement for work experience of 3-5 years. While there are people globally, who can do the job if given the opportunity, that clause already limits a lot of people. I will then liken this to our discussion; yes we do have "capacity to do" across the globe but when it comes to experience within the ICANN context it isn't evenly distributed globally and I don't think that should be difficult to prove as a quick check on the various community members within ICANN would confirm that (this is not to say it's anyone's fault). I am still of the opinion that experience and skills set needs to be considered within the regional context in other for diversity to be evident. Regards Sent from my LG G4 Kindly excuse brevity and typos On Feb 23, 2017 12:15 AM, "avri doria" <avri@apc.org> wrote:

Hi,

That may the case with some technical skills, but even then I would not doubt that there are technically skilled people in the South. But in policy that requires an understanding of more that just the technical details, there is no way the the north understands or is more skilled than the South. As for any of the other skills like organizational, economic or law, North, South East or West, seem to be equally skilled and experienced, especially when it comes to specialized knowledge about these things in their regions.

avri

On 22-Feb-17 10:43, Seun Ojedeji wrote:

...

Hello Avri,

I do think the proportion of skills/experience would be more in regions with higher Internet penetration than those with lower penetration. In context of DNS, I think it's logical that there will be more skilled/experienced people in regions with more Registry/Registrar organisation.

So I think applying skill/experience in diversity should not be based solely on people with "higher" skill/experience rating - inessence skills/experience should be applied in regional context if those two items would play a role in ensuring true diversity.

Regards Sent from my LG G4 Kindly excuse brevity and typos

On Feb 22, 2017 14:28, "avri doria" <avri@acm.org <mailto:avri@acm.org>> wrote:

Hi,

I disagree that skills and experience are mainly of the Global North. I think that misses the point that diversity is an essential element of skills and experience.

avri

On 22-Feb-17 04:35, Tijani BEN JEMAA wrote: > Thank you Avri for summarizing the discussion on skills in the > Diversity Sub-Group. > > I agree that diversity requirement should not prevail over skills or > experience requirements. > But I don’t think that skills and experience are elements of > diversity, and find this concept dangerous for the diversity; In fact, > as everyone knows, skills and experience are mostly present in the > north and if they are taken as elements of diversity, the whole > diversity will be flooded and we will end up with the same case of a > large majority from the north and almost none from the south. > > In my opinion, the choice should be done according to the skill and > experience without using very narrow criteria, and in the pool of > those skilled persons, we have to apply the diversity rules. > > ------------------------------------------------------------

---

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> *Tijani BEN JEMAA* > Executive Director > Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (*FMAI*) > Phone: +216 98 330 114 <tel:%2B216%2098%20330%20114> > +216 52 385 114 <tel:%2B216%2052%20385%20114> > ------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------

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> > >> Le 22 févr. 2017 à 05:43, avri doria <avri@acm.org <mailto:avri@acm.org> >> <mailto:avri@acm.org <mailto:avri@acm.org>>> a écrit : >> >> Hi. >> >> I did take a try in the doc at including this idea. >> >> ** >> >> *2.6 Skills: A variety of skill is important since it is a reflection of >> the diverse skill set available within the ICANN Community.While >> acknowledging the importance of diversity in the accountability >> mechanisms, some members of WS2 have expressed their view that diversity >> requirement should not prevail over skills or experience requirements, >> but should be an equivalent factor. Others have argued that skills and >> experience are elements of diversity. Whether diversity is an essential >> element of skills and experience or skill and experience are elements of >> diversity ensuring that ICANN is open to diverse participation is >> essential to fulfilling the range of skills and experience necessary for >> ICANN. If an original assessment of candidates is not sufficiently >> diverse to fulfill the skill, experience and diversity

requirements

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>> necessary, then efforts need to be redoubled until diversity is >> achieved..* >> >> ** >> >> avri >> >> On 21-Feb-17 18:32, Rafik Dammak wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> just to add that during the last call >>> (https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=64068802 <https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=64068802 ), >>> we had consensus around the proposal from Avri and that is currently >>> in the document, and getting more input on it. >>> @Julie can you please send/add a text around your suggestion i.e. >>> diversity in skill sets? >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Rafik >>> >>> 2017-02-22 7:43 GMT+09:00 Julie Hammer <julie.hammer@bigpond.com <mailto:julie.hammer@bigpond.com> >>> <mailto:julie.hammer@bigpond.com <mailto:julie.hammer@bigpond.com>> >>> <mailto:julie.hammer@bigpond.com <mailto:julie.hammer@bigpond.com>>>: >>> >>> *(To Secretariat Staff: would you please release this email

to

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>>> the list. I do not have posting rights. Many thanks.)* >>> >>> Also to add to Lousewies’s point and to clarify what I was saying >>> on the call: I was suggesting that we shouldn’t be representing >>> this as skills OR diversity, but rather diversity IN skills sets >>> ie. listing skills as an element of diversity means that we should >>> be seeking to have a diversity of (relevant) skills in

whatever

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>>> context we are discussing. In Lousewies’s example, I think that >>> the argument "they just don't have the >>> skills/experience/background” should be turned around on those >>> proposing it by highlighting and advocating the advantages of >>> having diversity IN the skills set. Different people have >>> different skills and I suggest that all situations/groups benefit >>> from having a range of skills available. >>> >>> So that is the focus that I was trying to suggest we have in the >>> paragraph in question. >>> >>> I also look forward to seeing everyone in Copenhagen. >>> >>> Cheers, Julie >>> >>> On 21 Feb 2017, at 7:10 PM, Lousewies Vanderlaan >>> <lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org> >>> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>> >>> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>>> wrote: >>> >>> Just to clarify: I was not supporting the formulation persé, I was >>> wondering that if it is kept, whether that was the right place to >>> do it. It seemed more like a general comment, which pertains

to

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>>> all the elements of diversity rather than one which applies only >>> to the point of skills. It is the traditional way in which those >>> who perpetuate the status quo always argue against the diverse >>> candidate: "they just don't have the >>> skills/experience/background". It will be comforting to those who >>> do not yet see the value of diversity, but I would be more in >>> favor of trying to socialize the concept with those people, so >>> that resistance becomes negligible. >>> It is up to the community to decide whether and when skills trump >>> diversity, but I generally agree with those who have said that >>> this is a false dichotomy. >>> On a personal note, I can tell you from long experience I have >>> often seen very competent women bypassed for top jobs, with

the

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>>> arguments that they lack the skill set. I see the risk for abuse >>> of this "escape clause ". >>> I do not think anyone is advocating for an incompetent person from >>> for example an underrepresented region/gender to take a leadership >>> position. If opponents starts to hammer the competence/skills >>> argument, it can be helpful to call this out. >>> The fact is that we either have enough competent people or we >>> should be educating and grooming enough people in the pipeline so >>> that any gap is temporary and this will become a mute point in the >>> future (perhaps we can make this explicit in the document?) >>> In this regard I believe the document can be very helpful: it will >>> encourage the clear measurement and reporting of diversity >>> throughout the organization, board and the community. Once we have >>> identified where the gaps are we can make sure we put resources in >>> those areas to make sure the "argument" of lack of >>> qualified/skilled people becomes irrelevant. >>> Hoping to see many of you in Copenhagen! >>> Lousewies >>> >>> …… >>> Sent from my phone. >>> Lousewies van der Laan >>> >>> On 16 Feb 2017, at 13:56, Fiona Asonga <fasonga@kixp.or.ke <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke> >>> <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke>> >>> <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke>>>

wrote:

...

>>> >>>> Dear Mathieu >>>> >>>> Thanks for the feedback. I agree that the increased diversity can >>>> actually expand the diversity of skills within ICANN but the pair >>>> of the conversation we haven't yet considered is the kind of >>>> skills that would constitutes skills diversity. Would it be based >>>> purely on work experience or academic qualifications or a >>>> combination of both? Both you and Lousewies raise important >>>> discussion points and look forwards to further discussions. >>>> >>>> Kind regards >>>> >>>> Fiona Asonga >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------

------------

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>>>> *From: *"Mathieu Weill" <mathieu.weill@afnic.fr <mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr> >>>> <mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr <mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr>> >>>> <mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr <mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr>>> >>>> *To: *"Rafik Dammak" <rafik.dammak@gmail.com <mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com> >>>> <mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com <mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com>> >>>> <mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com <mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com>>>, "Lousewies Vanderlaan" >>>> <lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org> >>>> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>> >>>> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>>> >>>> *Cc: *ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.

org>

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>>>> <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org>> <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org>> >>>> *Sent: *Wednesday, February 15, 2017 5:19:16 PM >>>> *Subject: *Re: [Ws2-diversity] Draft 01 Diversity Report >>>> >>>> Dear Colleagues, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I apologize for not being able to make many of the calls, but >>>> congratulate the group on the progress on the document. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I did post a comment on the Gdoc, about the following sentence : >>>> “While acknowledging the importance of diversity in the >>>> accountability mechanisms, members of WS2 have expressed

their

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>>>> view that diversity requirement should not prevail over skills or >>>> experience requirements.” >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Lousewies was supporting the formulation, and I understand where >>>> she’s coming from on that, but I personally have an issue with it >>>> : it implies that there is a mutually exclusive choice to be made >>>> between skills on the one side, diversity on the other. I do not >>>> share this view. I contend that increased diversity would >>>> actually expand the diversity of skills within ICANN. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> What do other group members think about it ? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Whatever the outcome of this discussion, it would be useful

to

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>>>> detail exactly what kind of skills we want to look at in terms of >>>> skills diversity. Is it legal / technical / market ? Others ? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Best >>>> Mathieu >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *De :* ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org> >>>> <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org>> >>>> <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org>> >>>> [mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org> >>>> <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org>>] *De la part de* Rafik >>>> Dammak >>>> *Envoyé :* mardi 14 février 2017 01:03 >>>> *À :* Lousewies Vanderlaan >>>> *Cc :* ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org> >>>> <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org>> <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org>> >>>> *Objet :* Re: [Ws2-diversity] Draft 01 Diversity Report >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Dear Lousewies, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks for the comments! >>>> I moved the document to this google doc so everyone can >>>> comment https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ziy7NDZZd9bW08HOxY-

CYUx3qQdno5i9Rqp4fOJtAT0

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<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ziy7NDZZd9bW08HOxY-

CYUx3qQdno5i9Rqp4fOJtAT0>

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>>>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ziy7NDZZd9bW08HOxY-

CYUx3qQdno5i9Rqp4fOJtAT0

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<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ziy7NDZZd9bW08HOxY-

CYUx3qQdno5i9Rqp4fOJtAT0>>

...

>>>> , >>>> the previous document was in word format . it is in

suggestion

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>>>> mode, so you can propose edits and changes. >>>> I encourage all members of the subgroup to go through the >>>> document and add their suggestions. we will add other parts

in

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>>>> coming days. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Rafik >>>> >>>> 2017-02-12 5:33 GMT+09:00 Lousewies Vanderlaan >>>> <lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org> >>>> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>> >>>> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>>>: >>>> >>>> Dear all, >>>> Congratulations on a strong first draft. As you know, as board >>>> liaison I have been mostly observing, but I have taken the >>>> liberty to make some small comments in the document in a personal >>>> capacity. Hope its useful. >>>> I look forward to seeing many of you in Copenhagen. >>>> best, Lousewies >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 10 Feb 2017, at 17:23, Fiona Asonga <fasonga@kixp.or.ke <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke> >>>>> <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke>> >>>> <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hallo All >>>>> >>>>> Please find on the link below the first draft of the diversity >>>> report with consolidated views that have bee shared and discussed >>>> so far on diversity. >>>>> >>>>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzFxffuM3Hx_

dUV1OWc0cDg5QWc/view?usp=sharing

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<https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzFxffuM3Hx_

dUV1OWc0cDg5QWc/view?usp=sharing>

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>>>> <https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzFxffuM3Hx_

dUV1OWc0cDg5QWc/view?usp=sharing

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<https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzFxffuM3Hx_

dUV1OWc0cDg5QWc/view?usp=sharing>>

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>>>>> >>>>> Since the discussion on the Global Accounts is still ongoing we >>>> have considered the input but would like another round of >>>> discussion on the same. >>>>> >>>>> Please feel free to share your feedback and edits to the document. >>>>> >>>>> Kind regards >>>>> >>>>> Fiona and Rafik >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Ws2-diversity mailing list >>>>> Ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org> >>>>> <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org>> <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org>> >>>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity> >>>> <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Ws2-diversity mailing list >>>> Ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org> >>>> <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org>> <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org>> >>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity> >>>> <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Ws2-diversity mailing list >>>> Ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org> >>>> <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org>> <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org>> >>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity> >>>> <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> <mail_signature-new logo.jpg> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Ws2-diversity mailing list >>>> Ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org> >>>> <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org>> <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org>> >>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity> >>>> <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Ws2-diversity mailing list >>> Ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org> >>> <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org>> <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org>> >>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity> >>> <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Ws2-diversity mailing list >>> Ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org> >>> <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org>> <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org>> >>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity> >>> <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Ws2-diversity mailing list >>> Ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org> <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org>> >>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity> >> >> >> --- >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus <https://www.avast.com/antivirus> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ws2-diversity mailing list >> Ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org> <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org>> >> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity> >

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I totally agree with Mr. Tijani. ________________________________ From: ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org <ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Tijani BEN JEMAA <tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 11:35 AM To: avri@acm.org Cc: ws2-diversity@icann.org Subject: Re: [Ws2-diversity] Draft 01 Diversity Report Thank you Avri for summarizing the discussion on skills in the Diversity Sub-Group. I agree that diversity requirement should not prevail over skills or experience requirements. But I don’t think that skills and experience are elements of diversity, and find this concept dangerous for the diversity; In fact, as everyone knows, skills and experience are mostly present in the north and if they are taken as elements of diversity, the whole diversity will be flooded and we will end up with the same case of a large majority from the north and almost none from the south. In my opinion, the choice should be done according to the skill and experience without using very narrow criteria, and in the pool of those skilled persons, we have to apply the diversity rules. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tijani BEN JEMAA Executive Director Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (FMAI) Phone: +216 98 330 114 +216 52 385 114 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Le 22 févr. 2017 à 05:43, avri doria <avri@acm.org<mailto:avri@acm.org>> a écrit : Hi. I did take a try in the doc at including this idea. ** *2.6 Skills: A variety of skill is important since it is a reflection of the diverse skill set available within the ICANN Community.While acknowledging the importance of diversity in the accountability mechanisms, some members of WS2 have expressed their view that diversity requirement should not prevail over skills or experience requirements, but should be an equivalent factor. Others have argued that skills and experience are elements of diversity. Whether diversity is an essential element of skills and experience or skill and experience are elements of diversity ensuring that ICANN is open to diverse participation is essential to fulfilling the range of skills and experience necessary for ICANN. If an original assessment of candidates is not sufficiently diverse to fulfill the skill, experience and diversity requirements necessary, then efforts need to be redoubled until diversity is achieved..* ** avri On 21-Feb-17 18:32, Rafik Dammak wrote: Hi, just to add that during the last call (https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=64068802), we had consensus around the proposal from Avri and that is currently in the document, and getting more input on it. @Julie can you please send/add a text around your suggestion i.e. diversity in skill sets? Best, Rafik 2017-02-22 7:43 GMT+09:00 Julie Hammer <julie.hammer@bigpond.com<mailto:julie.hammer@bigpond.com> <mailto:julie.hammer@bigpond.com>>: *(To Secretariat Staff: would you please release this email to the list. I do not have posting rights. Many thanks.)* Also to add to Lousewies’s point and to clarify what I was saying on the call: I was suggesting that we shouldn’t be representing this as skills OR diversity, but rather diversity IN skills sets ie. listing skills as an element of diversity means that we should be seeking to have a diversity of (relevant) skills in whatever context we are discussing. In Lousewies’s example, I think that the argument "they just don't have the skills/experience/background” should be turned around on those proposing it by highlighting and advocating the advantages of having diversity IN the skills set. Different people have different skills and I suggest that all situations/groups benefit from having a range of skills available. So that is the focus that I was trying to suggest we have in the paragraph in question. I also look forward to seeing everyone in Copenhagen. Cheers, Julie On 21 Feb 2017, at 7:10 PM, Lousewies Vanderlaan <lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org<mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>> wrote: Just to clarify: I was not supporting the formulation persé, I was wondering that if it is kept, whether that was the right place to do it. It seemed more like a general comment, which pertains to all the elements of diversity rather than one which applies only to the point of skills. It is the traditional way in which those who perpetuate the status quo always argue against the diverse candidate: "they just don't have the skills/experience/background". It will be comforting to those who do not yet see the value of diversity, but I would be more in favor of trying to socialize the concept with those people, so that resistance becomes negligible. It is up to the community to decide whether and when skills trump diversity, but I generally agree with those who have said that this is a false dichotomy. On a personal note, I can tell you from long experience I have often seen very competent women bypassed for top jobs, with the arguments that they lack the skill set. I see the risk for abuse of this "escape clause ". I do not think anyone is advocating for an incompetent person from for example an underrepresented region/gender to take a leadership position. If opponents starts to hammer the competence/skills argument, it can be helpful to call this out. The fact is that we either have enough competent people or we should be educating and grooming enough people in the pipeline so that any gap is temporary and this will become a mute point in the future (perhaps we can make this explicit in the document?) In this regard I believe the document can be very helpful: it will encourage the clear measurement and reporting of diversity throughout the organization, board and the community. Once we have identified where the gaps are we can make sure we put resources in those areas to make sure the "argument" of lack of qualified/skilled people becomes irrelevant. Hoping to see many of you in Copenhagen! Lousewies …… Sent from my phone. Lousewies van der Laan On 16 Feb 2017, at 13:56, Fiona Asonga <fasonga@kixp.or.ke<mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke> <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke>> wrote: Dear Mathieu Thanks for the feedback. I agree that the increased diversity can actually expand the diversity of skills within ICANN but the pair of the conversation we haven't yet considered is the kind of skills that would constitutes skills diversity. Would it be based purely on work experience or academic qualifications or a combination of both? Both you and Lousewies raise important discussion points and look forwards to further discussions. Kind regards Fiona Asonga ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *From: *"Mathieu Weill" <mathieu.weill@afnic.fr<mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr> <mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr>> *To: *"Rafik Dammak" <rafik.dammak@gmail.com<mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com> <mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com>>, "Lousewies Vanderlaan" <lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org<mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>> *Cc: *ws2-diversity@icann.org<mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org> <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org> *Sent: *Wednesday, February 15, 2017 5:19:16 PM *Subject: *Re: [Ws2-diversity] Draft 01 Diversity Report Dear Colleagues, I apologize for not being able to make many of the calls, but congratulate the group on the progress on the document. I did post a comment on the Gdoc, about the following sentence : “While acknowledging the importance of diversity in the accountability mechanisms, members of WS2 have expressed their view that diversity requirement should not prevail over skills or experience requirements.” Lousewies was supporting the formulation, and I understand where she’s coming from on that, but I personally have an issue with it : it implies that there is a mutually exclusive choice to be made between skills on the one side, diversity on the other. I do not share this view. I contend that increased diversity would actually expand the diversity of skills within ICANN. What do other group members think about it ? Whatever the outcome of this discussion, it would be useful to detail exactly what kind of skills we want to look at in terms of skills diversity. Is it legal / technical / market ? Others ? Best Mathieu *De :* ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org> <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org>] *De la part de* Rafik Dammak *Envoyé :* mardi 14 février 2017 01:03 *À :* Lousewies Vanderlaan *Cc :* ws2-diversity@icann.org<mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org> <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org> *Objet :* Re: [Ws2-diversity] Draft 01 Diversity Report Dear Lousewies, Thanks for the comments! I moved the document to this google doc so everyone can comment https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ziy7NDZZd9bW08HOxY-CYUx3qQdno5i9Rqp4fOJt... <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ziy7NDZZd9bW08HOxY-CYUx3qQdno5i9Rqp4fOJt...> , the previous document was in word format . it is in suggestion mode, so you can propose edits and changes. I encourage all members of the subgroup to go through the document and add their suggestions. we will add other parts in coming days. Best, Rafik 2017-02-12 5:33 GMT+09:00 Lousewies Vanderlaan <lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org<mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>>: Dear all, Congratulations on a strong first draft. As you know, as board liaison I have been mostly observing, but I have taken the liberty to make some small comments in the document in a personal capacity. Hope its useful. I look forward to seeing many of you in Copenhagen. best, Lousewies On 10 Feb 2017, at 17:23, Fiona Asonga <fasonga@kixp.or.ke<mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke> <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke>> wrote: Hallo All Please find on the link below the first draft of the diversity report with consolidated views that have bee shared and discussed so far on diversity. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzFxffuM3Hx_dUV1OWc0cDg5QWc/view?usp=sharin... <https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzFxffuM3Hx_dUV1OWc0cDg5QWc/view?usp=sharin...> Since the discussion on the Global Accounts is still ongoing we have considered the input but would like another round of discussion on the same. Please feel free to share your feedback and edits to the document. Kind regards Fiona and Rafik -- _______________________________________________ Ws2-diversity mailing list Ws2-diversity@icann.org<mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org> <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity> _______________________________________________ Ws2-diversity mailing list Ws2-diversity@icann.org<mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org> <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity> _______________________________________________ Ws2-diversity mailing list Ws2-diversity@icann.org<mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org> <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity> -- <mail_signature-new logo.jpg> _______________________________________________ Ws2-diversity mailing list Ws2-diversity@icann.org<mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org> <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity> _______________________________________________ Ws2-diversity mailing list Ws2-diversity@icann.org<mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org> <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity> _______________________________________________ Ws2-diversity mailing list Ws2-diversity@icann.org<mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org> <mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity> _______________________________________________ Ws2-diversity mailing list Ws2-diversity@icann.org<mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _______________________________________________ Ws2-diversity mailing list Ws2-diversity@icann.org<mailto:Ws2-diversity@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-diversity

Good points, which I share Regards Jorge Von: ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org] Im Auftrag von RAHMOUNI Dalila Gesendet: Donnerstag, 23. Februar 2017 19:57 An: ws2-diversity@icann.org; Mathieu Weill <mathieu.weill@afnic.fr> Cc: MARTINON David <david.martinon@diplomatie.gouv.fr> Betreff: Re: [Ws2-diversity] Draft 01 Diversity Report Hello everyone, Thank you for all these exchanges that show how important diversity, its definition and its modalities are. As noted by several members, I do not think diversity and skills are exclusive. The wording gives the impression that we oppose the two terms assuming that there is a risk that competences are diminished to prevail diversity. On the one hand, as underlined by Mathieu and others, the enhancing diversity will bring new skills and innovation especially! Many studies show how bringing people from different cultures and ways of thinking brings efficiency, creativity and emulation. So diversity and skills are correlated positively. On the other hand, it would be useful to emphasize that in order to promote diversity, ICANN needs to put in place mechanisms to strengthen skills. There are many skills in the south, but we must also face things as Tijani points out: it is necessary to train people who are not from the North who, despite their potential, sometimes have not had access all range of skills. A concret example is the language: many of them are not native English and it is very difficult to participate with efficiency and reactivity to Overall, the report does not have to oppose these notions or imply that the enhancement of diversity would entail a risk to skills but rather to emphasize : 1- Diversity brings new competences in favor of efficiency and innovation 2- ICANN has to ensure that the skills are as complete as possible through the provision of training. For quotas, I believe that at this stage - where we do not yet have a precise definition of diversity - it is not yet relevant to deal with them. The Diversity Office, which would be in charge of recommending tools to improve diversity, could discuss it. Best, Dalila De : ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org] De la part de Mathieu Weill Envoyé : mercredi 15 février 2017 15:19 À : Rafik Dammak; Lousewies Vanderlaan Cc : ws2-diversity@icann.org<mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org> Objet : Re: [Ws2-diversity] Draft 01 Diversity Report Dear Colleagues, I apologize for not being able to make many of the calls, but congratulate the group on the progress on the document. I did post a comment on the Gdoc, about the following sentence : “While acknowledging the importance of diversity in the accountability mechanisms, members of WS2 have expressed their view that diversity requirement should not prevail over skills or experience requirements.” Lousewies was supporting the formulation, and I understand where she’s coming from on that, but I personally have an issue with it : it implies that there is a mutually exclusive choice to be made between skills on the one side, diversity on the other. I do not share this view. I contend that increased diversity would actually expand the diversity of skills within ICANN. What do other group members think about it ? Whatever the outcome of this discussion, it would be useful to detail exactly what kind of skills we want to look at in terms of skills diversity. Is it legal / technical / market ? Others ? Best Mathieu De : ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org] De la part de Rafik Dammak Envoyé : mardi 14 février 2017 01:03 À : Lousewies Vanderlaan Cc : ws2-diversity@icann.org<mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org> Objet : Re: [Ws2-diversity] Draft 01 Diversity Report Dear Lousewies, Thanks for the comments! I moved the document to this google doc so everyone can comment https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ziy7NDZZd9bW08HOxY-CYUx3qQdno5i9Rqp4fOJt... , the previous document was in word format . it is in suggestion mode, so you can propose edits and changes. I encourage all members of the subgroup to go through the document and add their suggestions. we will add other parts in coming days. Best, Rafik 2017-02-12 5:33 GMT+09:00 Lousewies Vanderlaan <lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org<mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>>: Dear all, Congratulations on a strong first draft. As you know, as board liaison I have been mostly observing, but I have taken the liberty to make some small comments in the document in a personal capacity. Hope its useful. I look forward to seeing many of you in Copenhagen. best, Lousewies

On 10 Feb 2017, at 17:23, Fiona Asonga <fasonga@kixp.or.ke<mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke>> wrote:

Hallo All

Please find on the link below the first draft of the diversity report with consolidated views that have bee shared and discussed so far on diversity.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzFxffuM3Hx_dUV1OWc0cDg5QWc/view?usp=sharin...

Since the discussion on the Global Accounts is still ongoing we have considered the input but would like another round of discussion on the same.

Please feel free to share your feedback and edits to the document.

Kind regards

Fiona and Rafik

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