Re: [Ws2-jurisdiction] Welcome to the WS2 Jurisdiction Subgroup!
Jijani The concept of observer is clear The Person who participate at the meeting without the right to express any views without o the consent of the chair . He or she can not intervene more than once unless the lisse i directly touches his or her interest It shall noz eligible to vote 2016-08-13 20:06 GMT+02:00 Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji@gmail.com>:
As I am observer, this most likely would not reach the mailing list(which is right), what may not be accurate(which i also noted to Greg) is that observers are not restricted from joining the calls. They can indeed participate in the call if they so wish. So Tijani's understanding is somewhat how I understood this as well.
Perhaps in the interest of saving funds, observers who wants to join the call may only use the AC and not receive special dialout.
Regards
Sent from my LG G4 Kindly excuse brevity and typos
On 13 Aug 2016 18:51, "Tijani BEN JEMAA" <tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn> wrote:
Kavouss,
There is no mention of « Observers » in the CCWG Charter.
------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------- *Tijani BEN JEMAA* Executive Director Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (*FMAI*) Phone: +216 98 330 114 +216 52 385 114 ------------------------------------------------------------ -----------------
Le 13 août 2016 à 18:20, Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com> a écrit :
Tijani Peut être la définition se trouve dans notre Charter Salutations Kavouss
2016-08-13 19:07 GMT+02:00 Tijani BEN JEMAA <tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn>:
Bonsoir Alain,
Je ne trouve pas de définition des observateurs pour les sous-groupes du WS 2. Maintenant, et d’une manière informelle, ils donnent aux observateurs le statut de « voyeurs » passifs. Au plaisir de te revoir à Hyderabad
------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------- *Tijani BEN JEMAA* Directeur Exécutif Fédération Méditerranéenne des associations d'Internet (*FMAI*) Phone: +216 98 330 114 +216 52 385 114 ------------------------------------------------------------ -----------------
Le 13 août 2016 à 00:18, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> a écrit :
Thanks, Vinay! You are correct.
The page where the roles are discussed is here: https://docs.google.com/ document/d/1Iw5yn9GRk8RcnTJzclwB-JuSe3B6JugEj_0oGOCseqU/edit The document states that observers will not actively participate and will not have posting rights to the list. I believe the role of observers was also described on at least one of the CCWG calls, as well.
Greg
On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 5:31 AM, Vinay Kesari <vinay.kesari@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Parminder,
1. People can check their status here: https://community.icann. org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction
2. Anyone can change their status from 'observer' to 'active participant' at any time. I believe the appropriate way would be to get in touch with staff at <acct-staff@icann.org> and simply request a change. You may perhaps be asked to fill out a Statement of Interest if you haven't already, but I don't think there are any other requirements. As far as you're concerned I think you're an active participant already. Happy to be corrected on all of this by anyone though.
Regards, Vinay
PS: Taking the liberty of responding since Greg will likely (hopefully?) be asleep at this point. :)
On 12 August 2016 at 09:51, parminder <parminder@itforchange.net> wrote:
On Friday 12 August 2016 02:19 AM, Greg Shatan wrote:
All,
I've been reviewing the results of the Doodle polls on call times, and I see that quite a number of votes came from "Observers."
Thanks Greg. Two things; 1. How to know one's status? 2. Can one simply upgrade oneself from observer to member.
best, parminder
As I understand it, "Observers" do not get invited to the calls. If you want to participate in the calls, you will need to upgrade your status to "Member."
I think we will need to find a way to discount the votes of Observers when considering the results, since their time constraints should not affect the outcome (because they won't be on the calls...)
I appreciate the high level of compliance (another subgroup Rapporteur was concerned that their Doodle poll had zero responses), but I'm not sure why "Observers" voted at all.
Please let me know if I'm missing something.
Greg
On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 3:12 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> wrote:
*REMINDER: THE DOODLE POLLS WILL CLOSE TODAY, AUGUST 11, AT 23:59 UTC. PLEASE PARTICIPATE IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY DONE SO. THANK YOU.*
On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 6:21 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Participants in the CCWG-Accountability WS2 Subgroup on > Jurisdiction, > > I’m pleased to welcome you to the WS2 Jurisdiction Subgroup on > behalf of myself and Vinay Kesari. Vinay and I are co-rapporteurs of this > subgroup. We look forward to working with all of you. > > In order to get started we’ll need to determine the best time or > times to have Subgroup calls. The Subgroups can have meetings at 0500, > 1300 and 1900 UTC. There are slots available on all days of the week (but > not all slots are available on all days, since slots have already been > taken by the CCWG and by other subgroups). > > Initially, we expect to have one 1-hour call each week. In order to > determine when to have these calls, we have set up two Doodle polls: > > > 1. *Best time(s) of day for you*. IMPORTANT NOTES: This is a *day > and time *poll only, for the ongoing work of this group*. Please > ignore the specific dates next week.* (For your convenience, > times are shown in your time zone, not UTC.) > > LINK TO DOODLE POLL: http://doodle.com/poll/i9g3gmehaa6muhgr > > 2. *Rotation vs. fixed time*. > > LINK TO DOODLE POLL: http://doodle.com/poll/2ypry3gfgzq4h62b > > Please respond by *23:59 UTC* on *Thursday, August 11*, so that we > can get our process underway. > > Best regards, > > Greg Shatan >
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Based on this thread, it doesn't appear that there's a clear understanding of the role of "Observers" in Work Stream 2 Subgroups. The transcripts of the CCWG F2F in Helsinki and the next meeting after that don't shed any additional light on the matter. (There's no transcript for the most recent meeting yet.) The CCWG Wiki pages say that a Subgroup's Observers (1) don't "actively participate" in the subgroup and (2) won't have posting rights on the list. There's nothing specific about the Observers and the calls, but there's a note that anyone (not just Subgroup "Observers") can be a "silent observer" of any Subgroup call. Rather than speculating further, or exploring the formulations proposed on this thread (which I didn't see any support for in my review of CCWG materials) I will ask CCWG leadership and staff support to clarify the role of the Observers for *all* the Subgroups, including these specific points: 1. Will Observers get call invitations? 2. Can Observers join Adobe Connect and/or phone bridge for the call? 3. If yes, can Observers speak and/or write in the chat, or are they required to be silent/non-participating? 4. Do Observers receive the mailing list posts along with everyone else? 5. Will Observers have posting rights to the email list? I don't see any answers to these questions, except 5, and that's not quite settled, because Observers in this group have posted to this list. Let's see what we hear. Greg P.S. If you really want more detail on this, please see below.... I found the following information on CCWG wiki pages: 1. The wiki page for the Jurisdiction subgroup ( https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction) says: *Active Participants* engage in the day-to-day discussions of the particular topic. Each active participant is expected to spend at least 3-5 hours per week on sub-group work and will have posting rights to the mailing list. *Observers* follow the topic discussion but not actively participate at the sub-group level. Observers are not expected to spend time on sub-group work and will not have posting rights to the mailing list. 2. The wiki page for WS2 plenary meetings (https://community.icann.org/ display/WEIA/Meetings+-+WS2+Plenary) says: This Adobe Connect Room is open for *Subgroup* meetings to any and all silent observers: https://icann.adobeconnect.com/mssi-projects The exact meaning of "not actively participating" is not further explained. I have also noticed that people who are signed up as "Observers" have successfully posted to the list. So I don't think any of this information can lead to any absolute conclusions on the role of Observers in the Subgroups. In GNSO Working Groups, it is clear that Members receive call invitations (with Adobe Connect and dial-in info) and may log in and participate fully in those calls, and have rights to receive and post to the mailing list. On the other hand, it is clear that GNSO WG Observers do not receive the call invitations and do not have posting rights to the mailing list. As a rule, Observers do not attend the calls; if they want to follow the calls, they can use the recordings and transcripts. But the CCWG is not a GNSO WG, so these roles don't lead to absolute conclusions about Observers in the CCWG Subgroups either. On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 5:00 PM, Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com');>> wrote:
Jijani The concept of observer is clear The Person who participate at the meeting without the right to express any views without o the consent of the chair . He or she can not intervene more than once unless the lisse i directly touches his or her interest It shall noz eligible to vote
2016-08-13 20:06 GMT+02:00 Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','seun.ojedeji@gmail.com');>>:
As I am observer, this most likely would not reach the mailing list(which is right), what may not be accurate(which i also noted to Greg) is that observers are not restricted from joining the calls. They can indeed participate in the call if they so wish. So Tijani's understanding is somewhat how I understood this as well.
Perhaps in the interest of saving funds, observers who wants to join the call may only use the AC and not receive special dialout.
Regards
Sent from my LG G4 Kindly excuse brevity and typos
On 13 Aug 2016 18:51, "Tijani BEN JEMAA" <tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn');>> wrote:
Kavouss,
There is no mention of « Observers » in the CCWG Charter.
------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------- *Tijani BEN JEMAA* Executive Director Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (*FMAI*) Phone: +216 98 330 114 +216 52 385 114 ------------------------------------------------------------ -----------------
Le 13 août 2016 à 18:20, Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com');>> a écrit :
Tijani Peut être la définition se trouve dans notre Charter Salutations Kavouss
2016-08-13 19:07 GMT+02:00 Tijani BEN JEMAA <tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn');>>:
Bonsoir Alain,
Je ne trouve pas de définition des observateurs pour les sous-groupes du WS 2. Maintenant, et d’une manière informelle, ils donnent aux observateurs le statut de « voyeurs » passifs. Au plaisir de te revoir à Hyderabad
------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------- *Tijani BEN JEMAA* Directeur Exécutif Fédération Méditerranéenne des associations d'Internet (*FMAI*) Phone: +216 98 330 114 +216 52 385 114 ------------------------------------------------------------ -----------------
Le 13 août 2016 à 00:18, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','gregshatanipc@gmail.com');>> a écrit :
Thanks, Vinay! You are correct.
The page where the roles are discussed is here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Iw5yn9GRk8RcnTJzcl wB-JuSe3B6JugEj_0oGOCseqU/edit The document states that observers will not actively participate and will not have posting rights to the list. I believe the role of observers was also described on at least one of the CCWG calls, as well.
Greg
On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 5:31 AM, Vinay Kesari <vinay.kesari@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','vinay.kesari@gmail.com');>> wrote:
Hi Parminder,
1. People can check their status here: https://community.icann. org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction
2. Anyone can change their status from 'observer' to 'active participant' at any time. I believe the appropriate way would be to get in touch with staff at <acct-staff@icann.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','acct-staff@icann.org');>> and simply request a change. You may perhaps be asked to fill out a Statement of Interest if you haven't already, but I don't think there are any other requirements. As far as you're concerned I think you're an active participant already. Happy to be corrected on all of this by anyone though.
Regards, Vinay
PS: Taking the liberty of responding since Greg will likely (hopefully?) be asleep at this point. :)
On 12 August 2016 at 09:51, parminder <parminder@itforchange.net <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','parminder@itforchange.net');>> wrote:
On Friday 12 August 2016 02:19 AM, Greg Shatan wrote:
All,
I've been reviewing the results of the Doodle polls on call times, and I see that quite a number of votes came from "Observers."
Thanks Greg. Two things; 1. How to know one's status? 2. Can one simply upgrade oneself from observer to member.
best, parminder
As I understand it, "Observers" do not get invited to the calls. If you want to participate in the calls, you will need to upgrade your status to "Member."
I think we will need to find a way to discount the votes of Observers when considering the results, since their time constraints should not affect the outcome (because they won't be on the calls...)
I appreciate the high level of compliance (another subgroup Rapporteur was concerned that their Doodle poll had zero responses), but I'm not sure why "Observers" voted at all.
Please let me know if I'm missing something.
Greg
On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 3:12 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','gregshatanipc@gmail.com');>> wrote:
> *REMINDER: THE DOODLE POLLS WILL CLOSE TODAY, AUGUST 11, AT 23:59 > UTC. PLEASE PARTICIPATE IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY DONE SO. THANK YOU.* > > On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 6:21 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','gregshatanipc@gmail.com');>> wrote: > >> Dear Participants in the CCWG-Accountability WS2 Subgroup on >> Jurisdiction, >> >> I’m pleased to welcome you to the WS2 Jurisdiction Subgroup on >> behalf of myself and Vinay Kesari. Vinay and I are co-rapporteurs of this >> subgroup. We look forward to working with all of you. >> >> In order to get started we’ll need to determine the best time or >> times to have Subgroup calls. The Subgroups can have meetings at 0500, >> 1300 and 1900 UTC. There are slots available on all days of the week (but >> not all slots are available on all days, since slots have already been >> taken by the CCWG and by other subgroups). >> >> Initially, we expect to have one 1-hour call each week. In order >> to determine when to have these calls, we have set up two Doodle polls: >> >> >> 1. *Best time(s) of day for you*. IMPORTANT NOTES: This is a *day >> and time *poll only, for the ongoing work of this group*. Please >> ignore the specific dates next week.* (For your convenience, >> times are shown in your time zone, not UTC.) >> >> LINK TO DOODLE POLL: http://doodle.com/poll/i9g3gmehaa6muhgr >> >> 2. *Rotation vs. fixed time*. >> >> LINK TO DOODLE POLL: http://doodle.com/poll/2ypry3gfgzq4h62b >> >> Please respond by *23:59 UTC* on *Thursday, August 11*, so that we >> can get our process underway. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Greg Shatan >> > >
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Thanks Greg. This is an issue popping up in multiple subgroups - thanks for taking the lead and getting an answer for all of us. Best, Ed Sent from my iPhone
On 14 Aug 2016, at 01:03, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> wrote:
Based on this thread, it doesn't appear that there's a clear understanding of the role of "Observers" in Work Stream 2 Subgroups. The transcripts of the CCWG F2F in Helsinki and the next meeting after that don't shed any additional light on the matter. (There's no transcript for the most recent meeting yet.)
The CCWG Wiki pages say that a Subgroup's Observers (1) don't "actively participate" in the subgroup and (2) won't have posting rights on the list. There's nothing specific about the Observers and the calls, but there's a note that anyone (not just Subgroup "Observers") can be a "silent observer" of any Subgroup call.
Rather than speculating further, or exploring the formulations proposed on this thread (which I didn't see any support for in my review of CCWG materials) I will ask CCWG leadership and staff support to clarify the role of the Observers for all the Subgroups, including these specific points:
1. Will Observers get call invitations? 2. Can Observers join Adobe Connect and/or phone bridge for the call? 3. If yes, can Observers speak and/or write in the chat, or are they required to be silent/non-participating? 4. Do Observers receive the mailing list posts along with everyone else? 5. Will Observers have posting rights to the email list?
I don't see any answers to these questions, except 5, and that's not quite settled, because Observers in this group have posted to this list.
Let's see what we hear.
Greg
P.S. If you really want more detail on this, please see below....
I found the following information on CCWG wiki pages:
1. The wiki page for the Jurisdiction subgroup (https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction) says:
Active Participants engage in the day-to-day discussions of the particular topic. Each active participant is expected to spend at least 3-5 hours per week on sub-group work and will have posting rights to the mailing list.
Observers follow the topic discussion but not actively participate at the sub-group level. Observers are not expected to spend time on sub-group work and will not have posting rights to the mailing list.
2. The wiki page for WS2 plenary meetings (https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Meetings+-+WS2+Plenary) says:
This Adobe Connect Room is open for Subgroup meetings to any and all silent observers: https://icann.adobeconnect.com/mssi-projects
The exact meaning of "not actively participating" is not further explained. I have also noticed that people who are signed up as "Observers" have successfully posted to the list. So I don't think any of this information can lead to any absolute conclusions on the role of Observers in the Subgroups.
In GNSO Working Groups, it is clear that Members receive call invitations (with Adobe Connect and dial-in info) and may log in and participate fully in those calls, and have rights to receive and post to the mailing list. On the other hand, it is clear that GNSO WG Observers do not receive the call invitations and do not have posting rights to the mailing list. As a rule, Observers do not attend the calls; if they want to follow the calls, they can use the recordings and transcripts. But the CCWG is not a GNSO WG, so these roles don't lead to absolute conclusions about Observers in the CCWG Subgroups either.
On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 5:00 PM, Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com> wrote: Jijani The concept of observer is clear The Person who participate at the meeting without the right to express any views without o the consent of the chair . He or she can not intervene more than once unless the lisse i directly touches his or her interest It shall noz eligible to vote
2016-08-13 20:06 GMT+02:00 Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji@gmail.com>:
As I am observer, this most likely would not reach the mailing list(which is right), what may not be accurate(which i also noted to Greg) is that observers are not restricted from joining the calls. They can indeed participate in the call if they so wish. So Tijani's understanding is somewhat how I understood this as well.
Perhaps in the interest of saving funds, observers who wants to join the call may only use the AC and not receive special dialout.
Regards
Sent from my LG G4 Kindly excuse brevity and typos
On 13 Aug 2016 18:51, "Tijani BEN JEMAA" <tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn> wrote: Kavouss,
There is no mention of « Observers » in the CCWG Charter.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tijani BEN JEMAA Executive Director Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (FMAI) Phone: +216 98 330 114 +216 52 385 114 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Le 13 août 2016 à 18:20, Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com> a écrit :
Tijani Peut être la définition se trouve dans notre Charter Salutations Kavouss
2016-08-13 19:07 GMT+02:00 Tijani BEN JEMAA <tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn>:
Bonsoir Alain,
Je ne trouve pas de définition des observateurs pour les sous-groupes du WS 2. Maintenant, et d’une manière informelle, ils donnent aux observateurs le statut de « voyeurs » passifs. Au plaisir de te revoir à Hyderabad
----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tijani BEN JEMAA Directeur Exécutif Fédération Méditerranéenne des associations d'Internet (FMAI) Phone: +216 98 330 114 +216 52 385 114 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Le 13 août 2016 à 00:18, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> a écrit : > > Thanks, Vinay! You are correct. > > The page where the roles are discussed is here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Iw5yn9GRk8RcnTJzclwB-JuSe3B6JugEj_0oGOCs... The document states that observers will not actively participate and will not have posting rights to the list. I believe the role of observers was also described on at least one of the CCWG calls, as well. > > Greg > > >> On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 5:31 AM, Vinay Kesari <vinay.kesari@gmail.com> wrote: >> Hi Parminder, >> >> 1. People can check their status here: https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction >> >> 2. Anyone can change their status from 'observer' to 'active participant' at any time. I believe the appropriate way would be to get in touch with staff at <acct-staff@icann.org> and simply request a change. You may perhaps be asked to fill out a Statement of Interest if you haven't already, but I don't think there are any other requirements. As far as you're concerned I think you're an active participant already. Happy to be corrected on all of this by anyone though. >> >> Regards, >> Vinay >> >> PS: Taking the liberty of responding since Greg will likely (hopefully?) be asleep at this point. :) >> >>> On 12 August 2016 at 09:51, parminder <parminder@itforchange.net> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> On Friday 12 August 2016 02:19 AM, Greg Shatan wrote: >>>> All, >>>> >>>> I've been reviewing the results of the Doodle polls on call times, and I see that quite a number of votes came from "Observers." >>> >>> Thanks Greg. Two things; >>> 1. How to know one's status? >>> 2. Can one simply upgrade oneself from observer to member. >>> >>> best, parminder >>>> >>>> As I understand it, "Observers" do not get invited to the calls. If you want to participate in the calls, you will need to upgrade your status to "Member." >>>> >>>> I think we will need to find a way to discount the votes of Observers when considering the results, since their time constraints should not affect the outcome (because they won't be on the calls...) >>>> >>>> I appreciate the high level of compliance (another subgroup Rapporteur was concerned that their Doodle poll had zero responses), but I'm not sure why "Observers" voted at all. >>>> >>>> Please let me know if I'm missing something. >>>> >>>> Greg >>>> >>>>> On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 3:12 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> REMINDER: THE DOODLE POLLS WILL CLOSE TODAY, AUGUST 11, AT 23:59 UTC. PLEASE PARTICIPATE IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY DONE SO. THANK YOU. >>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 6:21 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> Dear Participants in the CCWG-Accountability WS2 Subgroup on Jurisdiction, >>>>>> I’m pleased to welcome you to the WS2 Jurisdiction Subgroup on behalf of myself and Vinay Kesari. Vinay and I are co-rapporteurs of this subgroup. We look forward to working with all of you. >>>>>> In order to get started we’ll need to determine the best time or times to have Subgroup calls. The Subgroups can have meetings at 0500, 1300 and 1900 UTC. There are slots available on all days of the week (but not all slots are available on all days, since slots have already been taken by the CCWG and by other subgroups). >>>>>> Initially, we expect to have one 1-hour call each week. In order to determine when to have these calls, we have set up two Doodle polls: >>>>>> 1. Best time(s) of day for you. IMPORTANT NOTES: This is a day and time poll only, for the ongoing work of this group. Please ignore the specific dates next week. (For your convenience, times are shown in your time zone, not UTC.) >>>>>> LINK TO DOODLE POLL: http://doodle.com/poll/i9g3gmehaa6muhgr >>>>>> 2. Rotation vs. fixed time. >>>>>> LINK TO DOODLE POLL: http://doodle.com/poll/2ypry3gfgzq4h62b >>>>>> Please respond by 23:59 UTC on Thursday, August 11, so that we can get our process underway. >>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>> Greg Shatan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list >>>> Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org >>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list >>> Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org >>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list >> Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org >> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction > > _______________________________________________ > Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list > Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org > https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction
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Thanks Greg, I made the same search and found the same result. I subscribed to the Jurisdiction Sub-Group as an observer, but when you said that observers don’t have to fill the doodle in, I immediately asked the staff to become member, and I’m now member. That’s why I can post to the mailing list. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tijani BEN JEMAA Executive Director Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (FMAI) Phone: +216 98 330 114 +216 52 385 114 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Le 14 août 2016 à 01:52, Edward Morris <egmorris1@toast.net> a écrit :
Thanks Greg.
This is an issue popping up in multiple subgroups - thanks for taking the lead and getting an answer for all of us.
Best,
Ed
Sent from my iPhone
On 14 Aug 2016, at 01:03, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>> wrote:
Based on this thread, it doesn't appear that there's a clear understanding of the role of "Observers" in Work Stream 2 Subgroups. The transcripts of the CCWG F2F in Helsinki and the next meeting after that don't shed any additional light on the matter. (There's no transcript for the most recent meeting yet.)
The CCWG Wiki pages say that a Subgroup's Observers (1) don't "actively participate" in the subgroup and (2) won't have posting rights on the list. There's nothing specific about the Observers and the calls, but there's a note that anyone (not just Subgroup "Observers") can be a "silent observer" of any Subgroup call.
Rather than speculating further, or exploring the formulations proposed on this thread (which I didn't see any support for in my review of CCWG materials) I will ask CCWG leadership and staff support to clarify the role of the Observers for all the Subgroups, including these specific points:
1. Will Observers get call invitations? 2. Can Observers join Adobe Connect and/or phone bridge for the call? 3. If yes, can Observers speak and/or write in the chat, or are they required to be silent/non-participating? 4. Do Observers receive the mailing list posts along with everyone else? 5. Will Observers have posting rights to the email list?
I don't see any answers to these questions, except 5, and that's not quite settled, because Observers in this group have posted to this list.
Let's see what we hear.
Greg
P.S. If you really want more detail on this, please see below....
I found the following information on CCWG wiki pages:
1. The wiki page for the Jurisdiction subgroup (https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction <https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction>) says:
Active Participants engage in the day-to-day discussions of the particular topic. Each active participant is expected to spend at least 3-5 hours per week on sub-group work and will have posting rights to the mailing list.
Observers follow the topic discussion but not actively participate at the sub-group level. Observers are not expected to spend time on sub-group work and will not have posting rights to the mailing list.
2. The wiki page for WS2 plenary meetings (https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Meetings+-+WS2+Plenary <https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Meetings+-+WS2+Plenary>) says:
This Adobe Connect Room is open for Subgroup meetings to any and all silent observers: https://icann.adobeconnect.com/mssi-projects <https://icann.adobeconnect.com/mssi-projects>
The exact meaning of "not actively participating" is not further explained. I have also noticed that people who are signed up as "Observers" have successfully posted to the list. So I don't think any of this information can lead to any absolute conclusions on the role of Observers in the Subgroups.
In GNSO Working Groups, it is clear that Members receive call invitations (with Adobe Connect and dial-in info) and may log in and participate fully in those calls, and have rights to receive and post to the mailing list. On the other hand, it is clear that GNSO WG Observers do not receive the call invitations and do not have posting rights to the mailing list. As a rule, Observers do not attend the calls; if they want to follow the calls, they can use the recordings and transcripts. But the CCWG is not a GNSO WG, so these roles don't lead to absolute conclusions about Observers in the CCWG Subgroups either.
On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 5:00 PM, Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com');>> wrote: Jijani The concept of observer is clear The Person who participate at the meeting without the right to express any views without o the consent of the chair . He or she can not intervene more than once unless the lisse i directly touches his or her interest It shall noz eligible to vote
2016-08-13 20:06 GMT+02:00 Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','seun.ojedeji@gmail.com');>>: As I am observer, this most likely would not reach the mailing list(which is right), what may not be accurate(which i also noted to Greg) is that observers are not restricted from joining the calls. They can indeed participate in the call if they so wish. So Tijani's understanding is somewhat how I understood this as well.
Perhaps in the interest of saving funds, observers who wants to join the call may only use the AC and not receive special dialout.
Regards
Sent from my LG G4 Kindly excuse brevity and typos
On 13 Aug 2016 18:51, "Tijani BEN JEMAA" <tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn');>> wrote: Kavouss,
There is no mention of « Observers » in the CCWG Charter.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tijani BEN JEMAA Executive Director Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (FMAI) Phone: +216 98 330 114 <tel:%2B216%2098%20330%20114> +216 52 385 114 <tel:%2B216%2052%20385%20114> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Le 13 août 2016 à 18:20, Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com');>> a écrit :
Tijani Peut être la définition se trouve dans notre Charter Salutations Kavouss
2016-08-13 19:07 GMT+02:00 Tijani BEN JEMAA <tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn');>>: Bonsoir Alain,
Je ne trouve pas de définition des observateurs pour les sous-groupes du WS 2. Maintenant, et d’une manière informelle, ils donnent aux observateurs le statut de « voyeurs » passifs. Au plaisir de te revoir à Hyderabad
----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tijani BEN JEMAA Directeur Exécutif Fédération Méditerranéenne des associations d'Internet (FMAI) Phone: +216 98 330 114 <tel:%2B216%2098%20330%20114> +216 52 385 114 <tel:%2B216%2052%20385%20114> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Le 13 août 2016 à 00:18, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','gregshatanipc@gmail.com');>> a écrit :
Thanks, Vinay! You are correct.
The page where the roles are discussed is here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Iw5yn9GRk8RcnTJzclwB-JuSe3B6JugEj_0oGOCs... <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Iw5yn9GRk8RcnTJzclwB-JuSe3B6JugEj_0oGOCs...> The document states that observers will not actively participate and will not have posting rights to the list. I believe the role of observers was also described on at least one of the CCWG calls, as well.
Greg
On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 5:31 AM, Vinay Kesari <vinay.kesari@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','vinay.kesari@gmail.com');>> wrote: Hi Parminder,
1. People can check their status here: https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction <https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction>
2. Anyone can change their status from 'observer' to 'active participant' at any time. I believe the appropriate way would be to get in touch with staff at <acct-staff@icann.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','acct-staff@icann.org');>> and simply request a change. You may perhaps be asked to fill out a Statement of Interest if you haven't already, but I don't think there are any other requirements. As far as you're concerned I think you're an active participant already. Happy to be corrected on all of this by anyone though.
Regards, Vinay
PS: Taking the liberty of responding since Greg will likely (hopefully?) be asleep at this point. :)
On 12 August 2016 at 09:51, parminder <parminder@itforchange.net <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','parminder@itforchange.net');>> wrote:
On Friday 12 August 2016 02:19 AM, Greg Shatan wrote:
All,
I've been reviewing the results of the Doodle polls on call times, and I see that quite a number of votes came from "Observers."
Thanks Greg. Two things; 1. How to know one's status? 2. Can one simply upgrade oneself from observer to member.
best, parminder
As I understand it, "Observers" do not get invited to the calls. If you want to participate in the calls, you will need to upgrade your status to "Member."
I think we will need to find a way to discount the votes of Observers when considering the results, since their time constraints should not affect the outcome (because they won't be on the calls...)
I appreciate the high level of compliance (another subgroup Rapporteur was concerned that their Doodle poll had zero responses), but I'm not sure why "Observers" voted at all.
Please let me know if I'm missing something.
Greg
On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 3:12 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','gregshatanipc@gmail.com');>> wrote: REMINDER: THE DOODLE POLLS WILL CLOSE TODAY, AUGUST 11, AT 23:59 UTC. PLEASE PARTICIPATE IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY DONE SO. THANK YOU.
On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 6:21 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','gregshatanipc@gmail.com');>> wrote: Dear Participants in the CCWG-Accountability WS2 Subgroup on Jurisdiction, I’m pleased to welcome you to the WS2 Jurisdiction Subgroup on behalf of myself and Vinay Kesari. Vinay and I are co-rapporteurs of this subgroup. We look forward to working with all of you. In order to get started we’ll need to determine the best time or times to have Subgroup calls. The Subgroups can have meetings at 0500, 1300 and 1900 UTC. There are slots available on all days of the week (but not all slots are available on all days, since slots have already been taken by the CCWG and by other subgroups). Initially, we expect to have one 1-hour call each week. In order to determine when to have these calls, we have set up two Doodle polls: 1. Best time(s) of day for you. IMPORTANT NOTES: This is a day and time poll only, for the ongoing work of this group. Please ignore the specific dates next week. (For your convenience, times are shown in your time zone, not UTC.) LINK TO DOODLE POLL: http://doodle.com/poll/i9g3gmehaa6muhgr <http://doodle.com/poll/i9g3gmehaa6muhgr> 2. Rotation vs. fixed time. LINK TO DOODLE POLL: http://doodle.com/poll/2ypry3gfgzq4h62b <http://doodle.com/poll/2ypry3gfgzq4h62b> Please respond by 23:59 UTC on Thursday, August 11, so that we can get our process underway. Best regards, Greg Shatan
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Dear Greg and Vinay, Do we have a decision with respect to how to move forward with the scheduling of the first meeting? Based on the answers from Bernard Turcotte, I would suggest we consider the doodle poll answers from subgroup members only. Given that anyone at any time can become a member, I would also say that observers should be able to join the calls in silent (just listening/reading) mode. Kind regards, Secretário Pedro Ivo Ferraz da Silva Divisão da Sociedade da Informação (DI) Ministério das Relações Exteriores - Brasil T: + 55 61 2030-6609 Secretary Pedro Ivo Ferraz da Silva Division of Information Society (DI) Ministry of External Relations - Brazil T: + 55 61 2030-6609 -----Mensagem original----- De: ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org] Em nome de Tijani BEN JEMAA Enviada em: domingo, 14 de agosto de 2016 03:35 Para: Edward Morris Cc: ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org Assunto: Re: [Ws2-jurisdiction] Welcome to the WS2 Jurisdiction Subgroup! Thanks Greg, I made the same search and found the same result. I subscribed to the Jurisdiction Sub-Group as an observer, but when you said that observers don’t have to fill the doodle in, I immediately asked the staff to become member, and I’m now member. That’s why I can post to the mailing list. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tijani BEN JEMAA Executive Director Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (FMAI) Phone: +216 98 330 114 +216 52 385 114 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Le 14 août 2016 à 01:52, Edward Morris <egmorris1@toast.net> a écrit : Thanks Greg. This is an issue popping up in multiple subgroups - thanks for taking the lead and getting an answer for all of us. Best, Ed Sent from my iPhone On 14 Aug 2016, at 01:03, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> wrote: Based on this thread, it doesn't appear that there's a clear understanding of the role of "Observers" in Work Stream 2 Subgroups. The transcripts of the CCWG F2F in Helsinki and the next meeting after that don't shed any additional light on the matter. (There's no transcript for the most recent meeting yet.) The CCWG Wiki pages say that a Subgroup's Observers (1) don't "actively participate" in the subgroup and (2) won't have posting rights on the list. There's nothing specific about the Observers and the calls, but there's a note that anyone (not just Subgroup "Observers") can be a "silent observer" of any Subgroup call. Rather than speculating further, or exploring the formulations proposed on this thread (which I didn't see any support for in my review of CCWG materials) I will ask CCWG leadership and staff support to clarify the role of the Observers for all the Subgroups, including these specific points: 1. Will Observers get call invitations? 2. Can Observers join Adobe Connect and/or phone bridge for the call? 3. If yes, can Observers speak and/or write in the chat, or are they required to be silent/non-participating? 4. Do Observers receive the mailing list posts along with everyone else? 5. Will Observers have posting rights to the email list? I don't see any answers to these questions, except 5, and that's not quite settled, because Observers in this group have posted to this list. Let's see what we hear. Greg P.S. If you really want more detail on this, please see below.... I found the following information on CCWG wiki pages: 1. The wiki page for the Jurisdiction subgroup (https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction <https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction> ) says: Active Participants engage in the day-to-day discussions of the particular topic. Each active participant is expected to spend at least 3-5 hours per week on sub-group work and will have posting rights to the mailing list. Observers follow the topic discussion but not actively participate at the sub-group level. Observers are not expected to spend time on sub-group work and will not have posting rights to the mailing list. 2. The wiki page for WS2 plenary meetings (https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Meetings+-+WS2+Plenary <https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Meetings+-+WS2+Plenary> ) says: This Adobe Connect Room is open for Subgroup meetings to any and all silent observers: https://icann.adobeconnect.com/mssi-projects <https://icann.adobeconnect.com/mssi-projects> The exact meaning of "not actively participating" is not further explained. I have also noticed that people who are signed up as "Observers" have successfully posted to the list. So I don't think any of this information can lead to any absolute conclusions on the role of Observers in the Subgroups. In GNSO Working Groups, it is clear that Members receive call invitations (with Adobe Connect and dial-in info) and may log in and participate fully in those calls, and have rights to receive and post to the mailing list. On the other hand, it is clear that GNSO WG Observers do not receive the call invitations and do not have posting rights to the mailing list. As a rule, Observers do not attend the calls; if they want to follow the calls, they can use the recordings and transcripts. But the CCWG is not a GNSO WG, so these roles don't lead to absolute conclusions about Observers in the CCWG Subgroups either. On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 5:00 PM, Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com');> > wrote: Jijani The concept of observer is clear The Person who participate at the meeting without the right to express any views without o the consent of the chair . He or she can not intervene more than once unless the lisse i directly touches his or her interest It shall noz eligible to vote 2016-08-13 20:06 GMT+02:00 Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','seun.ojedeji@gmail.com');> >: As I am observer, this most likely would not reach the mailing list(which is right), what may not be accurate(which i also noted to Greg) is that observers are not restricted from joining the calls. They can indeed participate in the call if they so wish. So Tijani's understanding is somewhat how I understood this as well. Perhaps in the interest of saving funds, observers who wants to join the call may only use the AC and not receive special dialout. Regards Sent from my LG G4 Kindly excuse brevity and typos On 13 Aug 2016 18:51, "Tijani BEN JEMAA" <tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn');> > wrote: Kavouss, There is no mention of « Observers » in the CCWG Charter. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tijani BEN JEMAA Executive Director Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (FMAI) Phone: +216 98 330 114 <tel:%2B216%2098%20330%20114> +216 52 385 114 <tel:%2B216%2052%20385%20114> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Le 13 août 2016 à 18:20, Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com');> > a écrit : Tijani Peut être la définition se trouve dans notre Charter Salutations Kavouss 2016-08-13 19:07 GMT+02:00 Tijani BEN JEMAA <tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn');> >: Bonsoir Alain, Je ne trouve pas de définition des observateurs pour les sous-groupes du WS 2. Maintenant, et d’une manière informelle, ils donnent aux observateurs le statut de « voyeurs » passifs. Au plaisir de te revoir à Hyderabad ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tijani BEN JEMAA Directeur Exécutif Fédération Méditerranéenne des associations d'Internet (FMAI) Phone: +216 98 330 114 <tel:%2B216%2098%20330%20114> +216 52 385 114 <tel:%2B216%2052%20385%20114> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Le 13 août 2016 à 00:18, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','gregshatanipc@gmail.com');> > a écrit : Thanks, Vinay! You are correct. The page where the roles are discussed is here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Iw5yn9GRk8RcnTJzclwB-JuSe3B6JugEj_0oGOCs... <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Iw5yn9GRk8RcnTJzclwB-JuSe3B6JugEj_0oGOCs...> The document states that observers will not actively participate and will not have posting rights to the list. I believe the role of observers was also described on at least one of the CCWG calls, as well. Greg On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 5:31 AM, Vinay Kesari <vinay.kesari@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','vinay.kesari@gmail.com');> > wrote: Hi Parminder, 1. People can check their status here: https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction <https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction> 2. Anyone can change their status from 'observer' to 'active participant' at any time. I believe the appropriate way would be to get in touch with staff at <acct-staff@icann.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','acct-staff@icann.org');> > and simply request a change. You may perhaps be asked to fill out a Statement of Interest if you haven't already, but I don't think there are any other requirements. As far as you're concerned I think you're an active participant already. Happy to be corrected on all of this by anyone though. Regards, Vinay PS: Taking the liberty of responding since Greg will likely (hopefully?) be asleep at this point. :) On 12 August 2016 at 09:51, parminder <parminder@itforchange.net <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','parminder@itforchange.net');> > wrote: On Friday 12 August 2016 02:19 AM, Greg Shatan wrote: All, I've been reviewing the results of the Doodle polls on call times, and I see that quite a number of votes came from "Observers." Thanks Greg. Two things; 1. How to know one's status? 2. Can one simply upgrade oneself from observer to member. best, parminder As I understand it, "Observers" do not get invited to the calls. If you want to participate in the calls, you will need to upgrade your status to "Member." I think we will need to find a way to discount the votes of Observers when considering the results, since their time constraints should not affect the outcome (because they won't be on the calls...) I appreciate the high level of compliance (another subgroup Rapporteur was concerned that their Doodle poll had zero responses), but I'm not sure why "Observers" voted at all. Please let me know if I'm missing something. Greg On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 3:12 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','gregshatanipc@gmail.com');> > wrote: REMINDER: THE DOODLE POLLS WILL CLOSE TODAY, AUGUST 11, AT 23:59 UTC. PLEASE PARTICIPATE IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY DONE SO. THANK YOU. On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 6:21 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','gregshatanipc@gmail.com');> > wrote: Dear Participants in the CCWG-Accountability WS2 Subgroup on Jurisdiction, I’m pleased to welcome you to the WS2 Jurisdiction Subgroup on behalf of myself and Vinay Kesari. Vinay and I are co-rapporteurs of this subgroup. We look forward to working with all of you. In order to get started we’ll need to determine the best time or times to have Subgroup calls. The Subgroups can have meetings at 0500, 1300 and 1900 UTC. There are slots available on all days of the week (but not all slots are available on all days, since slots have already been taken by the CCWG and by other subgroups). Initially, we expect to have one 1-hour call each week. In order to determine when to have these calls, we have set up two Doodle polls: 1. Best time(s) of day for you. IMPORTANT NOTES: This is a day and time poll only, for the ongoing work of this group. Please ignore the specific dates next week. (For your convenience, times are shown in your time zone, not UTC.) LINK TO DOODLE POLL: http://doodle.com/poll/i9g3gmehaa6muhgr <http://doodle.com/poll/i9g3gmehaa6muhgr> 2. Rotation vs. fixed time. LINK TO DOODLE POLL: http://doodle.com/poll/2ypry3gfgzq4h62b <http://doodle.com/poll/2ypry3gfgzq4h62b> Please respond by 23:59 UTC on Thursday, August 11, so that we can get our process underway. Best regards, Greg Shatan _______________________________________________ Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org');> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction> _______________________________________________ Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org');> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction> _______________________________________________ Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org');> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction> _______________________________________________ Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org');> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction> _______________________________________________ Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org');> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction> _______________________________________________ Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org');> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction> _______________________________________________ Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org');> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction> _______________________________________________ Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction _______________________________________________ Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction
This seems like a sensible approach Best Jorge -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org] Im Auftrag von Pedro Ivo Ferraz da Silva Gesendet: Dienstag, 16. August 2016 20:49 An: ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org Betreff: [Ws2-jurisdiction] RES: Welcome to the WS2 Jurisdiction Subgroup! Dear Greg and Vinay, Do we have a decision with respect to how to move forward with the scheduling of the first meeting? Based on the answers from Bernard Turcotte, I would suggest we consider the doodle poll answers from subgroup members only. Given that anyone at any time can become a member, I would also say that observers should be able to join the calls in silent (just listening/reading) mode. Kind regards, Secretário Pedro Ivo Ferraz da Silva Divisão da Sociedade da Informação (DI) Ministério das Relações Exteriores - Brasil T: + 55 61 2030-6609 Secretary Pedro Ivo Ferraz da Silva Division of Information Society (DI) Ministry of External Relations - Brazil T: + 55 61 2030-6609 -----Mensagem original----- De: ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org] Em nome de Tijani BEN JEMAA Enviada em: domingo, 14 de agosto de 2016 03:35 Para: Edward Morris Cc: ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org Assunto: Re: [Ws2-jurisdiction] Welcome to the WS2 Jurisdiction Subgroup! Thanks Greg, I made the same search and found the same result. I subscribed to the Jurisdiction Sub-Group as an observer, but when you said that observers don’t have to fill the doodle in, I immediately asked the staff to become member, and I’m now member. That’s why I can post to the mailing list. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tijani BEN JEMAA Executive Director Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (FMAI) Phone: +216 98 330 114 +216 52 385 114 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Le 14 août 2016 à 01:52, Edward Morris <egmorris1@toast.net> a écrit : Thanks Greg. This is an issue popping up in multiple subgroups - thanks for taking the lead and getting an answer for all of us. Best, Ed Sent from my iPhone On 14 Aug 2016, at 01:03, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> wrote: Based on this thread, it doesn't appear that there's a clear understanding of the role of "Observers" in Work Stream 2 Subgroups. The transcripts of the CCWG F2F in Helsinki and the next meeting after that don't shed any additional light on the matter. (There's no transcript for the most recent meeting yet.) The CCWG Wiki pages say that a Subgroup's Observers (1) don't "actively participate" in the subgroup and (2) won't have posting rights on the list. There's nothing specific about the Observers and the calls, but there's a note that anyone (not just Subgroup "Observers") can be a "silent observer" of any Subgroup call. Rather than speculating further, or exploring the formulations proposed on this thread (which I didn't see any support for in my review of CCWG materials) I will ask CCWG leadership and staff support to clarify the role of the Observers for all the Subgroups, including these specific points: 1. Will Observers get call invitations? 2. Can Observers join Adobe Connect and/or phone bridge for the call? 3. If yes, can Observers speak and/or write in the chat, or are they required to be silent/non-participating? 4. Do Observers receive the mailing list posts along with everyone else? 5. Will Observers have posting rights to the email list? I don't see any answers to these questions, except 5, and that's not quite settled, because Observers in this group have posted to this list. Let's see what we hear. Greg P.S. If you really want more detail on this, please see below.... I found the following information on CCWG wiki pages: 1. The wiki page for the Jurisdiction subgroup (https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction <https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction> ) says: Active Participants engage in the day-to-day discussions of the particular topic. Each active participant is expected to spend at least 3-5 hours per week on sub-group work and will have posting rights to the mailing list. Observers follow the topic discussion but not actively participate at the sub-group level. Observers are not expected to spend time on sub-group work and will not have posting rights to the mailing list. 2. The wiki page for WS2 plenary meetings (https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Meetings+-+WS2+Plenary <https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Meetings+-+WS2+Plenary> ) says: This Adobe Connect Room is open for Subgroup meetings to any and all silent observers: https://icann.adobeconnect.com/mssi-projects <https://icann.adobeconnect.com/mssi-projects> The exact meaning of "not actively participating" is not further explained. I have also noticed that people who are signed up as "Observers" have successfully posted to the list. So I don't think any of this information can lead to any absolute conclusions on the role of Observers in the Subgroups. In GNSO Working Groups, it is clear that Members receive call invitations (with Adobe Connect and dial-in info) and may log in and participate fully in those calls, and have rights to receive and post to the mailing list. On the other hand, it is clear that GNSO WG Observers do not receive the call invitations and do not have posting rights to the mailing list. As a rule, Observers do not attend the calls; if they want to follow the calls, they can use the recordings and transcripts. But the CCWG is not a GNSO WG, so these roles don't lead to absolute conclusions about Observers in the CCWG Subgroups either. On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 5:00 PM, Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com');> > wrote: Jijani The concept of observer is clear The Person who participate at the meeting without the right to express any views without o the consent of the chair . He or she can not intervene more than once unless the lisse i directly touches his or her interest It shall noz eligible to vote 2016-08-13 20:06 GMT+02:00 Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','seun.ojedeji@gmail.com');> >: As I am observer, this most likely would not reach the mailing list(which is right), what may not be accurate(which i also noted to Greg) is that observers are not restricted from joining the calls. They can indeed participate in the call if they so wish. So Tijani's understanding is somewhat how I understood this as well. Perhaps in the interest of saving funds, observers who wants to join the call may only use the AC and not receive special dialout. Regards Sent from my LG G4 Kindly excuse brevity and typos On 13 Aug 2016 18:51, "Tijani BEN JEMAA" <tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn');> > wrote: Kavouss, There is no mention of « Observers » in the CCWG Charter. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tijani BEN JEMAA Executive Director Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (FMAI) Phone: +216 98 330 114 <tel:%2B216%2098%20330%20114> +216 52 385 114 <tel:%2B216%2052%20385%20114> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Le 13 août 2016 à 18:20, Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com');> > a écrit : Tijani Peut être la définition se trouve dans notre Charter Salutations Kavouss 2016-08-13 19:07 GMT+02:00 Tijani BEN JEMAA <tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn');> >: Bonsoir Alain, Je ne trouve pas de définition des observateurs pour les sous-groupes du WS 2. Maintenant, et d’une manière informelle, ils donnent aux observateurs le statut de « voyeurs » passifs. Au plaisir de te revoir à Hyderabad ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tijani BEN JEMAA Directeur Exécutif Fédération Méditerranéenne des associations d'Internet (FMAI) Phone: +216 98 330 114 <tel:%2B216%2098%20330%20114> +216 52 385 114 <tel:%2B216%2052%20385%20114> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Le 13 août 2016 à 00:18, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','gregshatanipc@gmail.com');> > a écrit : Thanks, Vinay! You are correct. The page where the roles are discussed is here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Iw5yn9GRk8RcnTJzclwB-JuSe3B6JugEj_0oGOCs... <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Iw5yn9GRk8RcnTJzclwB-JuSe3B6JugEj_0oGOCs...> The document states that observers will not actively participate and will not have posting rights to the list. I believe the role of observers was also described on at least one of the CCWG calls, as well. Greg On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 5:31 AM, Vinay Kesari <vinay.kesari@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','vinay.kesari@gmail.com');> > wrote: Hi Parminder, 1. People can check their status here: https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction <https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction> 2. Anyone can change their status from 'observer' to 'active participant' at any time. I believe the appropriate way would be to get in touch with staff at <acct-staff@icann.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','acct-staff@icann.org');> > and simply request a change. You may perhaps be asked to fill out a Statement of Interest if you haven't already, but I don't think there are any other requirements. As far as you're concerned I think you're an active participant already. Happy to be corrected on all of this by anyone though. Regards, Vinay PS: Taking the liberty of responding since Greg will likely (hopefully?) be asleep at this point. :) On 12 August 2016 at 09:51, parminder <parminder@itforchange.net <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','parminder@itforchange.net');> > wrote: On Friday 12 August 2016 02:19 AM, Greg Shatan wrote: All, I've been reviewing the results of the Doodle polls on call times, and I see that quite a number of votes came from "Observers." Thanks Greg. Two things; 1. How to know one's status? 2. Can one simply upgrade oneself from observer to member. best, parminder As I understand it, "Observers" do not get invited to the calls. If you want to participate in the calls, you will need to upgrade your status to "Member." I think we will need to find a way to discount the votes of Observers when considering the results, since their time constraints should not affect the outcome (because they won't be on the calls...) I appreciate the high level of compliance (another subgroup Rapporteur was concerned that their Doodle poll had zero responses), but I'm not sure why "Observers" voted at all. Please let me know if I'm missing something. Greg On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 3:12 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','gregshatanipc@gmail.com');> > wrote: REMINDER: THE DOODLE POLLS WILL CLOSE TODAY, AUGUST 11, AT 23:59 UTC. PLEASE PARTICIPATE IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY DONE SO. THANK YOU. On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 6:21 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','gregshatanipc@gmail.com');> > wrote: Dear Participants in the CCWG-Accountability WS2 Subgroup on Jurisdiction, I’m pleased to welcome you to the WS2 Jurisdiction Subgroup on behalf of myself and Vinay Kesari. Vinay and I are co-rapporteurs of this subgroup. We look forward to working with all of you. In order to get started we’ll need to determine the best time or times to have Subgroup calls. The Subgroups can have meetings at 0500, 1300 and 1900 UTC. There are slots available on all days of the week (but not all slots are available on all days, since slots have already been taken by the CCWG and by other subgroups). Initially, we expect to have one 1-hour call each week. In order to determine when to have these calls, we have set up two Doodle polls: 1. Best time(s) of day for you. IMPORTANT NOTES: This is a day and time poll only, for the ongoing work of this group. Please ignore the specific dates next week. (For your convenience, times are shown in your time zone, not UTC.) LINK TO DOODLE POLL: http://doodle.com/poll/i9g3gmehaa6muhgr <http://doodle.com/poll/i9g3gmehaa6muhgr> 2. Rotation vs. fixed time. LINK TO DOODLE POLL: http://doodle.com/poll/2ypry3gfgzq4h62b <http://doodle.com/poll/2ypry3gfgzq4h62b> Please respond by 23:59 UTC on Thursday, August 11, so that we can get our process underway. Best regards, Greg Shatan _______________________________________________ Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org');> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction> _______________________________________________ Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org');> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction> _______________________________________________ Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org');> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction> _______________________________________________ Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org');> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction> _______________________________________________ Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org');> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction> _______________________________________________ Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org');> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction> _______________________________________________ Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org');> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction> _______________________________________________ Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction _______________________________________________ Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction _______________________________________________ Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction
Pedro, Based on the Doodle Poll, the largest number of positive answers were for: - Meetings at 19:00 UTC - A single meeting time rather than a rotation, with the single meeting time at 19:00 UTC - Monday was the most popular day for a meeting, with Thursday a close second. Only Friday had a significantly lower number of positive answers (not surprising, since this gets into Friday evening and night for many participants, when hopefully we all have better things to do...). These preferences were consistent whether all answers were considered or only those of members. When only members' answers were considered, the above preferences were more pronounced. By far the lowest number of positive answers were for meetings at 05:00 UTC and for any rotation that included meetings at 05:00 UTC. I think we can discard those entirely in our consideration. There were a moderate number of positive answers for meetings at 13:00 UTC, but not very close to those for 19:00 UTC. There were also a moderate number of positive answers for a 13:00/19:00 rotation. I have not yet conferred with Vinay on this point, but based on these answers, the preferred choice would be to have all meetings at 19:00 UTC (and likely on Monday or Thursday). A potential alternative is to have one meeting a month at 13:00, and three at 19:00, roughly reflecting the weight of the preferences. Given the general preference, it seems fair to schedule the first meeting for 19:00 hours (day subject to review of the Master Calendar). In terms of timing, I have been reluctant to schedule our first meeting until the scoping document is available and some time has been allowed for members to review it. I believe it's important for this document to be the subject of discussion on our first call. In addition to scope itself, this would tend to influence our overall work plan. As of now, the scoping document has not yet been published. I will check with staff to get an ETA (it was supposed to be some time this week). If we have an ETA, then we can use that to schedule a first call, even before the document is actually available. As for the role of Observers on calls, I tend to agree that if they are on a call, they should be in listening/reading mode only. Observers will not receive call invitations, so it would be up to them to calendar those calls. It also appears that Observers would need to be on the "honor system"; there appears to be no technical way to put the Observers into listening/reading mode. (I will ask Staff to explore this further, as I believe I've been in Adobe Connect rooms where I could not post in the chat or open my microphone, and I've certainly been on listen-only conference calls. I guess the question is whether this can be done "granularly," allowing for both members and observers at the same time.) Greg On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 2:49 PM, Pedro Ivo Ferraz da Silva < pedro.ivo@itamaraty.gov.br> wrote:
Dear Greg and Vinay,
Do we have a decision with respect to how to move forward with the scheduling of the first meeting? Based on the answers from Bernard Turcotte, I would suggest we consider the doodle poll answers from subgroup members only. Given that anyone at any time can become a member, I would also say that observers should be able to join the calls in silent (just listening/reading) mode.
Kind regards,
Secretário Pedro Ivo Ferraz da Silva Divisão da Sociedade da Informação (DI) Ministério das Relações Exteriores - Brasil T: + 55 61 2030-6609
Secretary Pedro Ivo Ferraz da Silva Division of Information Society (DI) Ministry of External Relations - Brazil T: + 55 61 2030-6609
-----Mensagem original----- De: ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ws2-jurisdiction- bounces@icann.org] Em nome de Tijani BEN JEMAA Enviada em: domingo, 14 de agosto de 2016 03:35 Para: Edward Morris Cc: ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org Assunto: Re: [Ws2-jurisdiction] Welcome to the WS2 Jurisdiction Subgroup!
Thanks Greg,
I made the same search and found the same result. I subscribed to the Jurisdiction Sub-Group as an observer, but when you said that observers don’t have to fill the doodle in, I immediately asked the staff to become member, and I’m now member. That’s why I can post to the mailing list.
------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------- Tijani BEN JEMAA Executive Director Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (FMAI) Phone: +216 98 330 114 +216 52 385 114 ------------------------------------------------------------ -----------------
Le 14 août 2016 à 01:52, Edward Morris <egmorris1@toast.net> a écrit :
Thanks Greg.
This is an issue popping up in multiple subgroups - thanks for taking the lead and getting an answer for all of us.
Best,
Ed
Sent from my iPhone
On 14 Aug 2016, at 01:03, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> wrote:
Based on this thread, it doesn't appear that there's a clear understanding of the role of "Observers" in Work Stream 2 Subgroups. The transcripts of the CCWG F2F in Helsinki and the next meeting after that don't shed any additional light on the matter. (There's no transcript for the most recent meeting yet.)
The CCWG Wiki pages say that a Subgroup's Observers (1) don't "actively participate" in the subgroup and (2) won't have posting rights on the list. There's nothing specific about the Observers and the calls, but there's a note that anyone (not just Subgroup "Observers") can be a "silent observer" of any Subgroup call.
Rather than speculating further, or exploring the formulations proposed on this thread (which I didn't see any support for in my review of CCWG materials) I will ask CCWG leadership and staff support to clarify the role of the Observers for all the Subgroups, including these specific points:
1. Will Observers get call invitations? 2. Can Observers join Adobe Connect and/or phone bridge for the call? 3. If yes, can Observers speak and/or write in the chat, or are they required to be silent/non-participating? 4. Do Observers receive the mailing list posts along with everyone else? 5. Will Observers have posting rights to the email list?
I don't see any answers to these questions, except 5, and that's not quite settled, because Observers in this group have posted to this list.
Let's see what we hear.
Greg
P.S. If you really want more detail on this, please see below....
I found the following information on CCWG wiki pages:
1. The wiki page for the Jurisdiction subgroup ( https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction < https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction> ) says:
Active Participants engage in the day-to-day discussions of the particular topic. Each active participant is expected to spend at least 3-5 hours per week on sub-group work and will have posting rights to the mailing list.
Observers follow the topic discussion but not actively participate at the sub-group level. Observers are not expected to spend time on sub-group work and will not have posting rights to the mailing list.
2. The wiki page for WS2 plenary meetings ( https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Meetings+-+WS2+Plenary < https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Meetings+-+WS2+Plenary> ) says:
This Adobe Connect Room is open for Subgroup meetings to any and all silent observers: https://icann.adobeconnect. com/mssi-projects <https://icann.adobeconnect.com/mssi-projects>
The exact meaning of "not actively participating" is not further explained. I have also noticed that people who are signed up as "Observers" have successfully posted to the list. So I don't think any of this information can lead to any absolute conclusions on the role of Observers in the Subgroups.
In GNSO Working Groups, it is clear that Members receive call invitations (with Adobe Connect and dial-in info) and may log in and participate fully in those calls, and have rights to receive and post to the mailing list. On the other hand, it is clear that GNSO WG Observers do not receive the call invitations and do not have posting rights to the mailing list. As a rule, Observers do not attend the calls; if they want to follow the calls, they can use the recordings and transcripts. But the CCWG is not a GNSO WG, so these roles don't lead to absolute conclusions about Observers in the CCWG Subgroups either.
On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 5:00 PM, Kavouss Arasteh < kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml',' kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com');> > wrote:
Jijani The concept of observer is clear The Person who participate at the meeting without the right to express any views without o the consent of the chair . He or she can not intervene more than once unless the lisse i directly touches his or her interest It shall noz eligible to vote
2016-08-13 20:06 GMT+02:00 Seun Ojedeji < seun.ojedeji@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml',' seun.ojedeji@gmail.com');> >:
As I am observer, this most likely would not reach the mailing list(which is right), what may not be accurate(which i also noted to Greg) is that observers are not restricted from joining the calls. They can indeed participate in the call if they so wish. So Tijani's understanding is somewhat how I understood this as well.
Perhaps in the interest of saving funds, observers who wants to join the call may only use the AC and not receive special dialout.
Regards
Sent from my LG G4 Kindly excuse brevity and typos
On 13 Aug 2016 18:51, "Tijani BEN JEMAA" < tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml',' tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn');> > wrote:
Kavouss,
There is no mention of « Observers » in the CCWG Charter.
------------------------------ ----------------------------------------------- Tijani BEN JEMAA Executive Director Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (FMAI) Phone: +216 98 330 114 <tel:%2B216%2098%20330%20114> +216 52 385 114 <tel:%2B216%2052%20385%20114> ------------------------------ -----------------------------------------------
Le 13 août 2016 à 18:20, Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml',' kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com');> > a écrit :
Tijani Peut être la définition se trouve dans notre Charter Salutations Kavouss
2016-08-13 19:07 GMT+02:00 Tijani BEN JEMAA <tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml',' tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn');> >:
Bonsoir Alain,
Je ne trouve pas de définition des observateurs pour les sous-groupes du WS 2. Maintenant, et d’une manière informelle, ils donnent aux observateurs le statut de « voyeurs » passifs. Au plaisir de te revoir à Hyderabad
------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------- Tijani BEN JEMAA Directeur Exécutif Fédération Méditerranéenne des associations d'Internet (FMAI)
Phone: +216 98 330 114 <tel:%2B216%2098%20330%20114> +216 52 385 114 <tel:%2B216%2052%20385%20114>
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------------
Le 13 août 2016 à 00:18, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','gregshatanipc@gmail.com');> > a écrit :
Thanks, Vinay! You are correct.
The page where the roles are discussed is here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/ 1Iw5yn9GRk8RcnTJzclwB-JuSe3B6JugEj_0oGOCseqU/edit < https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Iw5yn9GRk8RcnTJzclwB- JuSe3B6JugEj_0oGOCseqU/edit> The document states that observers will not actively participate and will not have posting rights to the list. I believe the role of observers was also described on at least one of the CCWG calls, as well.
Greg
On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 5:31 AM, Vinay Kesari <vinay.kesari@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','vinay.kesari@gmail.com');> > wrote:
Hi Parminder,
1. People can check their status here: https://community.icann.org/ display/WEIA/Jurisdiction <https://community.icann.org/ display/WEIA/Jurisdiction>
2. Anyone can change their status from 'observer' to 'active participant' at any time. I believe the appropriate way would be to get in touch with staff at <acct-staff@icann.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml',' acct-staff@icann.org');> > and simply request a change. You may perhaps be asked to fill out a Statement of Interest if you haven't already, but I don't think there are any other requirements. As far as you're concerned I think you're an active participant already. Happy to be corrected on all of this by anyone though.
Regards,
Vinay
PS: Taking the liberty of responding since Greg will likely (hopefully?) be asleep at this point. :)
On 12 August 2016 at 09:51, parminder <parminder@itforchange.net <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','parminder@itforchange.net');> > wrote:
On Friday 12 August 2016 02:19 AM, Greg Shatan wrote:
All,
I've been reviewing the results of the Doodle polls on call times, and I see that quite a number of votes came from "Observers."
Thanks Greg. Two things;
1. How to know one's status?
2. Can one simply upgrade oneself from observer to member.
best, parminder
As I understand it, "Observers" do not get invited to the calls. If you want to participate in the calls, you will need to upgrade your status to "Member."
I think we will need to find a way to discount the votes of Observers when considering the results, since their time constraints should not affect the outcome (because they won't be on the calls...)
I appreciate the high level of compliance (another subgroup Rapporteur was concerned that their Doodle poll had zero responses), but I'm not sure why "Observers" voted at all.
Please let me know if I'm missing something.
Greg
On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 3:12 PM, Greg Shatan < gregshatanipc@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml',' gregshatanipc@gmail.com');> > wrote:
REMINDER: THE DOODLE POLLS WILL CLOSE TODAY, AUGUST 11, AT 23:59 UTC. PLEASE PARTICIPATE IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY DONE SO. THANK YOU.
On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 6:21 PM, Greg Shatan < gregshatanipc@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml',' gregshatanipc@gmail.com');> > wrote:
Dear Participants in the CCWG-Accountability WS2 Subgroup on Jurisdiction,
I’m pleased to welcome you to the WS2 Jurisdiction Subgroup on behalf of myself and Vinay Kesari. Vinay and I are co-rapporteurs of this subgroup. We look forward to working with all of you.
In order to get started we’ll need to determine the best time or times to have Subgroup calls. The Subgroups can have meetings at 0500, 1300 and 1900 UTC. There are slots available on all days of the week (but not all slots are available on all days, since slots have already been taken by the CCWG and by other subgroups).
Initially, we expect to have one 1-hour call each week. In order to determine when to have these calls, we have set up two Doodle polls:
1. Best time(s) of day for you. IMPORTANT NOTES: This is a day and time poll only, for the ongoing work of this group. Please ignore the specific dates next week. (For your convenience, times are shown in your time zone, not UTC.)
LINK TO DOODLE POLL: http://doodle.com/poll/ i9g3gmehaa6muhgr <http://doodle.com/poll/i9g3gmehaa6muhgr>
2. Rotation vs. fixed time.
LINK TO DOODLE POLL: http://doodle.com/poll/ 2ypry3gfgzq4h62b <http://doodle.com/poll/2ypry3gfgzq4h62b>
Please respond by 23:59 UTC on Thursday, August 11, so that we can get our process underway.
Best regards,
Greg Shatan
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On Wednesday 17 August 2016 03:35 AM, Greg Shatan wrote:
Pedro,
Based on the Doodle Poll, the largest number of positive answers were for:
* Meetings at 19:00 UTC * A single meeting time rather than a rotation, with the single meeting time at 19:00 UTC
Greg 1900 UTC means it is past midnight for all those on the east of Iran, which is more than half the world's population. If that is the voting preference of most members that simply says that the group is too heavily west loaded... It will be a pity if by such a timing we cause further exclusions. I would say that apart from just a count of preferences other factors like plausibility for most of the world time zones must also be considered. I really think the second option best below, of 1300 UTC is what we should go for. It gives the most even spread across the world. thanks, parminder
* Monday was the most popular day for a meeting, with Thursday a close second. Only Friday had a significantly lower number of positive answers (not surprising, since this gets into Friday evening and night for many participants, when hopefully we all have better things to do...).
These preferences were consistent whether all answers were considered or only those of members. When only members' answers were considered, the above preferences were more pronounced.
By far the lowest number of positive answers were for meetings at 05:00 UTC and for any rotation that included meetings at 05:00 UTC. I think we can discard those entirely in our consideration.
There were a moderate number of positive answers for meetings at 13:00 UTC, but not very close to those for 19:00 UTC. There were also a moderate number of positive answers for a 13:00/19:00 rotation.
I have not yet conferred with Vinay on this point, but based on these answers, the preferred choice would be to have all meetings at 19:00 UTC (and likely on Monday or Thursday). A potential alternative is to have one meeting a month at 13:00, and three at 19:00, roughly reflecting the weight of the preferences.
Given the general preference, it seems fair to schedule the first meeting for 19:00 hours (day subject to review of the Master Calendar).
In terms of timing, I have been reluctant to schedule our first meeting until the scoping document is available and some time has been allowed for members to review it. I believe it's important for this document to be the subject of discussion on our first call. In addition to scope itself, this would tend to influence our overall work plan. As of now, the scoping document has not yet been published. I will check with staff to get an ETA (it was supposed to be some time this week). If we have an ETA, then we can use that to schedule a first call, even before the document is actually available.
As for the role of Observers on calls, I tend to agree that if they are on a call, they should be in listening/reading mode only. Observers will not receive call invitations, so it would be up to them to calendar those calls. It also appears that Observers would need to be on the "honor system"; there appears to be no technical way to put the Observers into listening/reading mode. (I will ask Staff to explore this further, as I believe I've been in Adobe Connect rooms where I could not post in the chat or open my microphone, and I've certainly been on listen-only conference calls. I guess the question is whether this can be done "granularly," allowing for both members and observers at the same time.)
Greg
On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 2:49 PM, Pedro Ivo Ferraz da Silva <pedro.ivo@itamaraty.gov.br <mailto:pedro.ivo@itamaraty.gov.br>> wrote:
Dear Greg and Vinay,
Do we have a decision with respect to how to move forward with the scheduling of the first meeting? Based on the answers from Bernard Turcotte, I would suggest we consider the doodle poll answers from subgroup members only. Given that anyone at any time can become a member, I would also say that observers should be able to join the calls in silent (just listening/reading) mode.
Kind regards,
Secretário Pedro Ivo Ferraz da Silva Divisão da Sociedade da Informação (DI) Ministério das Relações Exteriores - Brasil T: + 55 61 2030-6609 <tel:%2B%2055%2061%202030-6609>
Secretary Pedro Ivo Ferraz da Silva Division of Information Society (DI) Ministry of External Relations - Brazil T: + 55 61 2030-6609 <tel:%2B%2055%2061%202030-6609>
-----Mensagem original----- De: ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org>] Em nome de Tijani BEN JEMAA Enviada em: domingo, 14 de agosto de 2016 03:35 Para: Edward Morris Cc: ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org <mailto:ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org> Assunto: Re: [Ws2-jurisdiction] Welcome to the WS2 Jurisdiction Subgroup!
Thanks Greg,
I made the same search and found the same result. I subscribed to the Jurisdiction Sub-Group as an observer, but when you said that observers don’t have to fill the doodle in, I immediately asked the staff to become member, and I’m now member. That’s why I can post to the mailing list.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tijani BEN JEMAA Executive Director Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (FMAI) Phone: +216 98 330 114 <tel:%2B216%2098%20330%20114> +216 52 385 114 <tel:%2B216%2052%20385%20114> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Le 14 août 2016 à 01:52, Edward Morris <egmorris1@toast.net <mailto:egmorris1@toast.net>> a écrit :
Thanks Greg.
This is an issue popping up in multiple subgroups - thanks for taking the lead and getting an answer for all of us.
Best,
Ed
Sent from my iPhone
On 14 Aug 2016, at 01:03, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>> wrote:
Based on this thread, it doesn't appear that there's a clear understanding of the role of "Observers" in Work Stream 2 Subgroups. The transcripts of the CCWG F2F in Helsinki and the next meeting after that don't shed any additional light on the matter. (There's no transcript for the most recent meeting yet.)
The CCWG Wiki pages say that a Subgroup's Observers (1) don't "actively participate" in the subgroup and (2) won't have posting rights on the list. There's nothing specific about the Observers and the calls, but there's a note that anyone (not just Subgroup "Observers") can be a "silent observer" of any Subgroup call.
Rather than speculating further, or exploring the formulations proposed on this thread (which I didn't see any support for in my review of CCWG materials) I will ask CCWG leadership and staff support to clarify the role of the Observers for all the Subgroups, including these specific points:
1. Will Observers get call invitations? 2. Can Observers join Adobe Connect and/or phone bridge for the call? 3. If yes, can Observers speak and/or write in the chat, or are they required to be silent/non-participating? 4. Do Observers receive the mailing list posts along with everyone else? 5. Will Observers have posting rights to the email list?
I don't see any answers to these questions, except 5, and that's not quite settled, because Observers in this group have posted to this list.
Let's see what we hear.
Greg
P.S. If you really want more detail on this, please see below....
I found the following information on CCWG wiki pages:
1. The wiki page for the Jurisdiction subgroup (https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction <https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction> <https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction <https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction>> ) says:
Active Participants engage in the day-to-day discussions of the particular topic. Each active participant is expected to spend at least 3-5 hours per week on sub-group work and will have posting rights to the mailing list.
Observers follow the topic discussion but not actively participate at the sub-group level. Observers are not expected to spend time on sub-group work and will not have posting rights to the mailing list.
2. The wiki page for WS2 plenary meetings (https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Meetings+-+WS2+Plenary <https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Meetings+-+WS2+Plenary> <https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Meetings+-+WS2+Plenary <https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Meetings+-+WS2+Plenary>> ) says:
This Adobe Connect Room is open for Subgroup meetings to any and all silent observers: https://icann.adobeconnect.com/mssi-projects <https://icann.adobeconnect.com/mssi-projects> <https://icann.adobeconnect.com/mssi-projects <https://icann.adobeconnect.com/mssi-projects>>
The exact meaning of "not actively participating" is not further explained. I have also noticed that people who are signed up as "Observers" have successfully posted to the list. So I don't think any of this information can lead to any absolute conclusions on the role of Observers in the Subgroups.
In GNSO Working Groups, it is clear that Members receive call invitations (with Adobe Connect and dial-in info) and may log in and participate fully in those calls, and have rights to receive and post to the mailing list. On the other hand, it is clear that GNSO WG Observers do not receive the call invitations and do not have posting rights to the mailing list. As a rule, Observers do not attend the calls; if they want to follow the calls, they can use the recordings and transcripts. But the CCWG is not a GNSO WG, so these roles don't lead to absolute conclusions about Observers in the CCWG Subgroups either.
On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 5:00 PM, Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com <mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com <mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com>');> > wrote:
Jijani The concept of observer is clear The Person who participate at the meeting without the right to express any views without o the consent of the chair . He or she can not intervene more than once unless the lisse i directly touches his or her interest It shall noz eligible to vote
2016-08-13 20:06 GMT+02:00 Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji@gmail.com <mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','seun.ojedeji@gmail.com <mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com>');> >:
As I am observer, this most likely would not reach the mailing list(which is right), what may not be accurate(which i also noted to Greg) is that observers are not restricted from joining the calls. They can indeed participate in the call if they so wish. So Tijani's understanding is somewhat how I understood this as well.
Perhaps in the interest of saving funds, observers who wants to join the call may only use the AC and not receive special dialout.
Regards
Sent from my LG G4 Kindly excuse brevity and typos
On 13 Aug 2016 18:51, "Tijani BEN JEMAA" <tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn <mailto:tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn <mailto:tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn>');> > wrote:
Kavouss,
There is no mention of « Observers » in the CCWG Charter.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tijani BEN JEMAA Executive Director Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (FMAI) Phone: +216 98 330 114 <tel:%2B216%2098%20330%20114> <tel:%2B216%2098%20330%20114> +216 52 385 114 <tel:%2B216%2052%20385%20114> <tel:%2B216%2052%20385%20114>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Le 13 août 2016 à 18:20, Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com <mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com <mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com>');> > a écrit :
Tijani Peut être la définition se trouve dans notre Charter Salutations Kavouss
2016-08-13 19:07 GMT+02:00 Tijani BEN JEMAA <tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn <mailto:tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn <mailto:tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn>');> >:
Bonsoir Alain,
Je ne trouve pas de définition des observateurs pour les sous-groupes du WS 2. Maintenant, et d’une manière informelle, ils donnent aux observateurs le statut de « voyeurs » passifs. Au plaisir de te revoir à Hyderabad
----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tijani BEN JEMAA Directeur Exécutif Fédération Méditerranéenne des associations d'Internet (FMAI)
Phone: +216 98 330 114 <tel:%2B216%2098%20330%20114> <tel:%2B216%2098%20330%20114>
+216 52 385 114 <tel:%2B216%2052%20385%20114> <tel:%2B216%2052%20385%20114>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Le 13 août 2016 à 00:18, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>');> > a écrit :
Thanks, Vinay! You are correct.
The page where the roles are discussed is here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Iw5yn9GRk8RcnTJzclwB-JuSe3B6JugEj_0oGOCs... <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Iw5yn9GRk8RcnTJzclwB-JuSe3B6JugEj_0oGOCs...> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Iw5yn9GRk8RcnTJzclwB-JuSe3B6JugEj_0oGOCs... <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Iw5yn9GRk8RcnTJzclwB-JuSe3B6JugEj_0oGOCseqU/edit>> The document states that observers will not actively participate and will not have posting rights to the list. I believe the role of observers was also described on at least one of the CCWG calls, as well.
Greg
On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 5:31 AM, Vinay Kesari <vinay.kesari@gmail.com <mailto:vinay.kesari@gmail.com> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','vinay.kesari@gmail.com <mailto:vinay.kesari@gmail.com>');> > wrote:
Hi Parminder,
1. People can check their status here: https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction <https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction> <https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction <https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction>>
2. Anyone can change their status from 'observer' to 'active participant' at any time. I believe the appropriate way would be to get in touch with staff at <acct-staff@icann.org <mailto:acct-staff@icann.org> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','acct-staff@icann.org <mailto:acct-staff@icann.org>');> > and simply request a change. You may perhaps be asked to fill out a Statement of Interest if you haven't already, but I don't think there are any other requirements. As far as you're concerned I think you're an active participant already. Happy to be corrected on all of this by anyone though.
Regards,
Vinay
PS: Taking the liberty of responding since Greg will likely (hopefully?) be asleep at this point. :)
On 12 August 2016 at 09:51, parminder <parminder@itforchange.net <mailto:parminder@itforchange.net> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','parminder@itforchange.net <mailto:parminder@itforchange.net>');> > wrote:
On Friday 12 August 2016 02:19 AM, Greg Shatan wrote:
All,
I've been reviewing the results of the Doodle polls on call times, and I see that quite a number of votes came from "Observers."
Thanks Greg. Two things;
1. How to know one's status?
2. Can one simply upgrade oneself from observer to member.
best, parminder
As I understand it, "Observers" do not get invited to the calls. If you want to participate in the calls, you will need to upgrade your status to "Member."
I think we will need to find a way to discount the votes of Observers when considering the results, since their time constraints should not affect the outcome (because they won't be on the calls...)
I appreciate the high level of compliance (another subgroup Rapporteur was concerned that their Doodle poll had zero responses), but I'm not sure why "Observers" voted at all.
Please let me know if I'm missing something.
Greg
On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 3:12 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>');> > wrote:
REMINDER: THE DOODLE POLLS WILL CLOSE TODAY, AUGUST 11, AT 23:59 UTC. PLEASE PARTICIPATE IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY DONE SO. THANK YOU.
On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 6:21 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>');> > wrote:
Dear Participants in the CCWG-Accountability WS2 Subgroup on Jurisdiction,
I’m pleased to welcome you to the WS2 Jurisdiction Subgroup on behalf of myself and Vinay Kesari. Vinay and I are co-rapporteurs of this subgroup. We look forward to working with all of you.
In order to get started we’ll need to determine the best time or times to have Subgroup calls. The Subgroups can have meetings at 0500, 1300 and 1900 UTC. There are slots available on all days of the week (but not all slots are available on all days, since slots have already been taken by the CCWG and by other subgroups).
Initially, we expect to have one 1-hour call each week. In order to determine when to have these calls, we have set up two Doodle polls:
1. Best time(s) of day for you. IMPORTANT NOTES: This is a day and time poll only, for the ongoing work of this group. Please ignore the specific dates next week. (For your convenience, times are shown in your time zone, not UTC.)
LINK TO DOODLE POLL: http://doodle.com/poll/i9g3gmehaa6muhgr <http://doodle.com/poll/i9g3gmehaa6muhgr> <http://doodle.com/poll/i9g3gmehaa6muhgr <http://doodle.com/poll/i9g3gmehaa6muhgr>>
2. Rotation vs. fixed time.
LINK TO DOODLE POLL: http://doodle.com/poll/2ypry3gfgzq4h62b <http://doodle.com/poll/2ypry3gfgzq4h62b> <http://doodle.com/poll/2ypry3gfgzq4h62b <http://doodle.com/poll/2ypry3gfgzq4h62b>>
Please respond by 23:59 UTC on Thursday, August 11, so that we can get our process underway.
Best regards,
Greg Shatan
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Greg: I think it makes sense to alternate the meeting time, especially if there was something near to a bimodal distribution of preferences. While it may be true that a (NA-EU) majority finds the 19:00 UTC time most convenient, by alternating we can incorporate the preferences of a larger segment of the group. In terms of the first meeting, I would suggest, in all seriousness, that we not schedule anything until after September 30 so that we can be sure the transition has been completed as planned. We might have some preliminary stage-setting and planning meetings before then, but I see no point in getting deeply into the substance until we know for sure what is happening. Another point: I may be completely out of touch with what is going on here, but was I correct to see you proposing 4 calls a month? This strikes me as quite excessive. I have trouble imagining what kinds of activities or outcomes are required to sustain that pace. I suspect that increases in the frequency of meetings will be inversely correlated with the quantity and quality of attendance and preparation. I would seriously suggest that we scale back to 2 meetings a month until and unless we are faced with specific project deadlines that would require a more frequent meeting schedule. Dr. Milton L. Mueller Professor, School of Public Policy Georgia Institute of Technology From: ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of parminder Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 12:21 AM To: ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org Subject: Re: [Ws2-jurisdiction] RES: Welcome to the WS2 Jurisdiction Subgroup! On Wednesday 17 August 2016 03:35 AM, Greg Shatan wrote: Pedro, Based on the Doodle Poll, the largest number of positive answers were for: * Meetings at 19:00 UTC * A single meeting time rather than a rotation, with the single meeting time at 19:00 UTC Greg 1900 UTC means it is past midnight for all those on the east of Iran, which is more than half the world's population. If that is the voting preference of most members that simply says that the group is too heavily west loaded... It will be a pity if by such a timing we cause further exclusions. I would say that apart from just a count of preferences other factors like plausibility for most of the world time zones must also be considered. I really think the second option best below, of 1300 UTC is what we should go for. It gives the most even spread across the world. thanks, parminder * Monday was the most popular day for a meeting, with Thursday a close second. Only Friday had a significantly lower number of positive answers (not surprising, since this gets into Friday evening and night for many participants, when hopefully we all have better things to do...). These preferences were consistent whether all answers were considered or only those of members. When only members' answers were considered, the above preferences were more pronounced. By far the lowest number of positive answers were for meetings at 05:00 UTC and for any rotation that included meetings at 05:00 UTC. I think we can discard those entirely in our consideration. There were a moderate number of positive answers for meetings at 13:00 UTC, but not very close to those for 19:00 UTC. There were also a moderate number of positive answers for a 13:00/19:00 rotation. I have not yet conferred with Vinay on this point, but based on these answers, the preferred choice would be to have all meetings at 19:00 UTC (and likely on Monday or Thursday). A potential alternative is to have one meeting a month at 13:00, and three at 19:00, roughly reflecting the weight of the preferences. Given the general preference, it seems fair to schedule the first meeting for 19:00 hours (day subject to review of the Master Calendar). In terms of timing, I have been reluctant to schedule our first meeting until the scoping document is available and some time has been allowed for members to review it. I believe it's important for this document to be the subject of discussion on our first call. In addition to scope itself, this would tend to influence our overall work plan. As of now, the scoping document has not yet been published. I will check with staff to get an ETA (it was supposed to be some time this week). If we have an ETA, then we can use that to schedule a first call, even before the document is actually available. As for the role of Observers on calls, I tend to agree that if they are on a call, they should be in listening/reading mode only. Observers will not receive call invitations, so it would be up to them to calendar those calls. It also appears that Observers would need to be on the "honor system"; there appears to be no technical way to put the Observers into listening/reading mode. (I will ask Staff to explore this further, as I believe I've been in Adobe Connect rooms where I could not post in the chat or open my microphone, and I've certainly been on listen-only conference calls. I guess the question is whether this can be done "granularly," allowing for both members and observers at the same time.) Greg On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 2:49 PM, Pedro Ivo Ferraz da Silva <pedro.ivo@itamaraty.gov.br<mailto:pedro.ivo@itamaraty.gov.br>> wrote: Dear Greg and Vinay, Do we have a decision with respect to how to move forward with the scheduling of the first meeting? Based on the answers from Bernard Turcotte, I would suggest we consider the doodle poll answers from subgroup members only. Given that anyone at any time can become a member, I would also say that observers should be able to join the calls in silent (just listening/reading) mode. Kind regards, Secretário Pedro Ivo Ferraz da Silva Divisão da Sociedade da Informação (DI) Ministério das Relações Exteriores - Brasil T: + 55 61 2030-6609<tel:%2B%2055%2061%202030-6609> Secretary Pedro Ivo Ferraz da Silva Division of Information Society (DI) Ministry of External Relations - Brazil T: + 55 61 2030-6609<tel:%2B%2055%2061%202030-6609> -----Mensagem original----- De: ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org>] Em nome de Tijani BEN JEMAA Enviada em: domingo, 14 de agosto de 2016 03:35 Para: Edward Morris Cc: ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org<mailto:ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org> Assunto: Re: [Ws2-jurisdiction] Welcome to the WS2 Jurisdiction Subgroup! Thanks Greg, I made the same search and found the same result. I subscribed to the Jurisdiction Sub-Group as an observer, but when you said that observers don't have to fill the doodle in, I immediately asked the staff to become member, and I'm now member. That's why I can post to the mailing list. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tijani BEN JEMAA Executive Director Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (FMAI) Phone: +216 98 330 114<tel:%2B216%2098%20330%20114> +216 52 385 114<tel:%2B216%2052%20385%20114> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Le 14 août 2016 à 01:52, Edward Morris <egmorris1@toast.net<mailto:egmorris1@toast.net>> a écrit : Thanks Greg. This is an issue popping up in multiple subgroups - thanks for taking the lead and getting an answer for all of us. Best, Ed Sent from my iPhone On 14 Aug 2016, at 01:03, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>> wrote: Based on this thread, it doesn't appear that there's a clear understanding of the role of "Observers" in Work Stream 2 Subgroups. The transcripts of the CCWG F2F in Helsinki and the next meeting after that don't shed any additional light on the matter. (There's no transcript for the most recent meeting yet.) The CCWG Wiki pages say that a Subgroup's Observers (1) don't "actively participate" in the subgroup and (2) won't have posting rights on the list. There's nothing specific about the Observers and the calls, but there's a note that anyone (not just Subgroup "Observers") can be a "silent observer" of any Subgroup call. Rather than speculating further, or exploring the formulations proposed on this thread (which I didn't see any support for in my review of CCWG materials) I will ask CCWG leadership and staff support to clarify the role of the Observers for all the Subgroups, including these specific points: 1. Will Observers get call invitations? 2. Can Observers join Adobe Connect and/or phone bridge for the call? 3. If yes, can Observers speak and/or write in the chat, or are they required to be silent/non-participating? 4. Do Observers receive the mailing list posts along with everyone else? 5. Will Observers have posting rights to the email list? I don't see any answers to these questions, except 5, and that's not quite settled, because Observers in this group have posted to this list. Let's see what we hear. Greg P.S. If you really want more detail on this, please see below.... I found the following information on CCWG wiki pages: 1. The wiki page for the Jurisdiction subgroup (https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction <https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction> ) says: Active Participants engage in the day-to-day discussions of the particular topic. Each active participant is expected to spend at least 3-5 hours per week on sub-group work and will have posting rights to the mailing list. Observers follow the topic discussion but not actively participate at the sub-group level. Observers are not expected to spend time on sub-group work and will not have posting rights to the mailing list. 2. The wiki page for WS2 plenary meetings (https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Meetings+-+WS2+Plenary <https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Meetings+-+WS2+Plenary> ) says: This Adobe Connect Room is open for Subgroup meetings to any and all silent observers: https://icann.adobeconnect.com/mssi-projects <https://icann.adobeconnect.com/mssi-projects> The exact meaning of "not actively participating" is not further explained. I have also noticed that people who are signed up as "Observers" have successfully posted to the list. So I don't think any of this information can lead to any absolute conclusions on the role of Observers in the Subgroups. In GNSO Working Groups, it is clear that Members receive call invitations (with Adobe Connect and dial-in info) and may log in and participate fully in those calls, and have rights to receive and post to the mailing list. On the other hand, it is clear that GNSO WG Observers do not receive the call invitations and do not have posting rights to the mailing list. As a rule, Observers do not attend the calls; if they want to follow the calls, they can use the recordings and transcripts. But the CCWG is not a GNSO WG, so these roles don't lead to absolute conclusions about Observers in the CCWG Subgroups either. On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 5:00 PM, Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com<mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com<mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com>');> > wrote: Jijani The concept of observer is clear The Person who participate at the meeting without the right to express any views without o the consent of the chair . He or she can not intervene more than once unless the lisse i directly touches his or her interest It shall noz eligible to vote 2016-08-13 20:06 GMT+02:00 Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji@gmail.com<mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','seun.ojedeji@gmail.com<mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com>');> >: As I am observer, this most likely would not reach the mailing list(which is right), what may not be accurate(which i also noted to Greg) is that observers are not restricted from joining the calls. They can indeed participate in the call if they so wish. So Tijani's understanding is somewhat how I understood this as well. Perhaps in the interest of saving funds, observers who wants to join the call may only use the AC and not receive special dialout. Regards Sent from my LG G4 Kindly excuse brevity and typos On 13 Aug 2016 18:51, "Tijani BEN JEMAA" <tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn<mailto:tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn<mailto:tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn>');> > wrote: Kavouss, There is no mention of « Observers » in the CCWG Charter. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tijani BEN JEMAA Executive Director Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (FMAI) Phone: +216 98 330 114<tel:%2B216%2098%20330%20114> <tel:%2B216%2098%20330%20114> +216 52 385 114<tel:%2B216%2052%20385%20114> <tel:%2B216%2052%20385%20114> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Le 13 août 2016 à 18:20, Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com<mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com<mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com>');> > a écrit : Tijani Peut être la définition se trouve dans notre Charter Salutations Kavouss 2016-08-13 19:07 GMT+02:00 Tijani BEN JEMAA <tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn<mailto:tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn<mailto:tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn>');> >: Bonsoir Alain, Je ne trouve pas de définition des observateurs pour les sous-groupes du WS 2. Maintenant, et d'une manière informelle, ils donnent aux observateurs le statut de « voyeurs » passifs. Au plaisir de te revoir à Hyderabad ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tijani BEN JEMAA Directeur Exécutif Fédération Méditerranéenne des associations d'Internet (FMAI) Phone: +216 98 330 114<tel:%2B216%2098%20330%20114> <tel:%2B216%2098%20330%20114> +216 52 385 114<tel:%2B216%2052%20385%20114> <tel:%2B216%2052%20385%20114> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Le 13 août 2016 à 00:18, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>');> > a écrit : Thanks, Vinay! You are correct. The page where the roles are discussed is here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Iw5yn9GRk8RcnTJzclwB-JuSe3B6JugEj_0oGOCs... <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Iw5yn9GRk8RcnTJzclwB-JuSe3B6JugEj_0oGOCs...> The document states that observers will not actively participate and will not have posting rights to the list. I believe the role of observers was also described on at least one of the CCWG calls, as well. Greg On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 5:31 AM, Vinay Kesari <vinay.kesari@gmail.com<mailto:vinay.kesari@gmail.com> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','vinay.kesari@gmail.com<mailto:vinay.kesari@gmail.com>');> > wrote: Hi Parminder, 1. People can check their status here: https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction <https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction> 2. Anyone can change their status from 'observer' to 'active participant' at any time. I believe the appropriate way would be to get in touch with staff at <acct-staff@icann.org<mailto:acct-staff@icann.org> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','acct-staff@icann.org<mailto:acct-staff@icann.org>');> > and simply request a change. You may perhaps be asked to fill out a Statement of Interest if you haven't already, but I don't think there are any other requirements. As far as you're concerned I think you're an active participant already. Happy to be corrected on all of this by anyone though. Regards, Vinay PS: Taking the liberty of responding since Greg will likely (hopefully?) be asleep at this point. :) On 12 August 2016 at 09:51, parminder <parminder@itforchange.net<mailto:parminder@itforchange.net> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','parminder@itforchange.net<mailto:parminder@itforchange.net>');> > wrote: On Friday 12 August 2016 02:19 AM, Greg Shatan wrote: All, I've been reviewing the results of the Doodle polls on call times, and I see that quite a number of votes came from "Observers." Thanks Greg. Two things; 1. How to know one's status? 2. Can one simply upgrade oneself from observer to member. best, parminder As I understand it, "Observers" do not get invited to the calls. If you want to participate in the calls, you will need to upgrade your status to "Member." I think we will need to find a way to discount the votes of Observers when considering the results, since their time constraints should not affect the outcome (because they won't be on the calls...) I appreciate the high level of compliance (another subgroup Rapporteur was concerned that their Doodle poll had zero responses), but I'm not sure why "Observers" voted at all. Please let me know if I'm missing something. Greg On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 3:12 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>');> > wrote: REMINDER: THE DOODLE POLLS WILL CLOSE TODAY, AUGUST 11, AT 23:59 UTC. PLEASE PARTICIPATE IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY DONE SO. THANK YOU. On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 6:21 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>');> > wrote: Dear Participants in the CCWG-Accountability WS2 Subgroup on Jurisdiction, I'm pleased to welcome you to the WS2 Jurisdiction Subgroup on behalf of myself and Vinay Kesari. Vinay and I are co-rapporteurs of this subgroup. We look forward to working with all of you. In order to get started we'll need to determine the best time or times to have Subgroup calls. The Subgroups can have meetings at 0500, 1300 and 1900 UTC. There are slots available on all days of the week (but not all slots are available on all days, since slots have already been taken by the CCWG and by other subgroups). Initially, we expect to have one 1-hour call each week. In order to determine when to have these calls, we have set up two Doodle polls: 1. Best time(s) of day for you. IMPORTANT NOTES: This is a day and time poll only, for the ongoing work of this group. Please ignore the specific dates next week. (For your convenience, times are shown in your time zone, not UTC.) LINK TO DOODLE POLL: http://doodle.com/poll/i9g3gmehaa6muhgr <http://doodle.com/poll/i9g3gmehaa6muhgr> 2. Rotation vs. fixed time. LINK TO DOODLE POLL: http://doodle.com/poll/2ypry3gfgzq4h62b <http://doodle.com/poll/2ypry3gfgzq4h62b> Please respond by 23:59 UTC on Thursday, August 11, so that we can get our process underway. 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I agree with Milton here on all of his points here. We should rotate call times, limit the amount of calls to no more than 2 per month and only do preliminary stage-setting work until the transition is completed on September 30th. Jeffrey J. Neuman Senior Vice President |Valideus USA | Com Laude USA 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600 Mclean, VA 22102, United States E: jeff.neuman@valideus.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@valideus.com> or jeff.neuman@comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com> T: +1.703.635.7514 M: +1.202.549.5079 @Jintlaw From: ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Mueller, Milton L Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 8:26 AM To: ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org Subject: Re: [Ws2-jurisdiction] RES: Welcome to the WS2 Jurisdiction Subgroup! Greg: I think it makes sense to alternate the meeting time, especially if there was something near to a bimodal distribution of preferences. While it may be true that a (NA-EU) majority finds the 19:00 UTC time most convenient, by alternating we can incorporate the preferences of a larger segment of the group. In terms of the first meeting, I would suggest, in all seriousness, that we not schedule anything until after September 30 so that we can be sure the transition has been completed as planned. We might have some preliminary stage-setting and planning meetings before then, but I see no point in getting deeply into the substance until we know for sure what is happening. Another point: I may be completely out of touch with what is going on here, but was I correct to see you proposing 4 calls a month? This strikes me as quite excessive. I have trouble imagining what kinds of activities or outcomes are required to sustain that pace. I suspect that increases in the frequency of meetings will be inversely correlated with the quantity and quality of attendance and preparation. I would seriously suggest that we scale back to 2 meetings a month until and unless we are faced with specific project deadlines that would require a more frequent meeting schedule. Dr. Milton L. Mueller Professor, School of Public Policy Georgia Institute of Technology From: ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of parminder Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 12:21 AM To: ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org<mailto:ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Ws2-jurisdiction] RES: Welcome to the WS2 Jurisdiction Subgroup! On Wednesday 17 August 2016 03:35 AM, Greg Shatan wrote: Pedro, Based on the Doodle Poll, the largest number of positive answers were for: * Meetings at 19:00 UTC * A single meeting time rather than a rotation, with the single meeting time at 19:00 UTC Greg 1900 UTC means it is past midnight for all those on the east of Iran, which is more than half the world's population. If that is the voting preference of most members that simply says that the group is too heavily west loaded... It will be a pity if by such a timing we cause further exclusions. I would say that apart from just a count of preferences other factors like plausibility for most of the world time zones must also be considered. I really think the second option best below, of 1300 UTC is what we should go for. It gives the most even spread across the world. thanks, parminder * Monday was the most popular day for a meeting, with Thursday a close second. Only Friday had a significantly lower number of positive answers (not surprising, since this gets into Friday evening and night for many participants, when hopefully we all have better things to do...). These preferences were consistent whether all answers were considered or only those of members. When only members' answers were considered, the above preferences were more pronounced. By far the lowest number of positive answers were for meetings at 05:00 UTC and for any rotation that included meetings at 05:00 UTC. I think we can discard those entirely in our consideration. There were a moderate number of positive answers for meetings at 13:00 UTC, but not very close to those for 19:00 UTC. There were also a moderate number of positive answers for a 13:00/19:00 rotation. I have not yet conferred with Vinay on this point, but based on these answers, the preferred choice would be to have all meetings at 19:00 UTC (and likely on Monday or Thursday). A potential alternative is to have one meeting a month at 13:00, and three at 19:00, roughly reflecting the weight of the preferences. Given the general preference, it seems fair to schedule the first meeting for 19:00 hours (day subject to review of the Master Calendar). In terms of timing, I have been reluctant to schedule our first meeting until the scoping document is available and some time has been allowed for members to review it. I believe it's important for this document to be the subject of discussion on our first call. In addition to scope itself, this would tend to influence our overall work plan. As of now, the scoping document has not yet been published. I will check with staff to get an ETA (it was supposed to be some time this week). If we have an ETA, then we can use that to schedule a first call, even before the document is actually available. As for the role of Observers on calls, I tend to agree that if they are on a call, they should be in listening/reading mode only. Observers will not receive call invitations, so it would be up to them to calendar those calls. It also appears that Observers would need to be on the "honor system"; there appears to be no technical way to put the Observers into listening/reading mode. (I will ask Staff to explore this further, as I believe I've been in Adobe Connect rooms where I could not post in the chat or open my microphone, and I've certainly been on listen-only conference calls. I guess the question is whether this can be done "granularly," allowing for both members and observers at the same time.) Greg On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 2:49 PM, Pedro Ivo Ferraz da Silva <pedro.ivo@itamaraty.gov.br<mailto:pedro.ivo@itamaraty.gov.br>> wrote: Dear Greg and Vinay, Do we have a decision with respect to how to move forward with the scheduling of the first meeting? Based on the answers from Bernard Turcotte, I would suggest we consider the doodle poll answers from subgroup members only. Given that anyone at any time can become a member, I would also say that observers should be able to join the calls in silent (just listening/reading) mode. Kind regards, Secretário Pedro Ivo Ferraz da Silva Divisão da Sociedade da Informação (DI) Ministério das Relações Exteriores - Brasil T: + 55 61 2030-6609<tel:%2B%2055%2061%202030-6609> Secretary Pedro Ivo Ferraz da Silva Division of Information Society (DI) Ministry of External Relations - Brazil T: + 55 61 2030-6609<tel:%2B%2055%2061%202030-6609> -----Mensagem original----- De: ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org>] Em nome de Tijani BEN JEMAA Enviada em: domingo, 14 de agosto de 2016 03:35 Para: Edward Morris Cc: ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org<mailto:ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org> Assunto: Re: [Ws2-jurisdiction] Welcome to the WS2 Jurisdiction Subgroup! Thanks Greg, I made the same search and found the same result. I subscribed to the Jurisdiction Sub-Group as an observer, but when you said that observers don't have to fill the doodle in, I immediately asked the staff to become member, and I'm now member. That's why I can post to the mailing list. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tijani BEN JEMAA Executive Director Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (FMAI) Phone: +216 98 330 114<tel:%2B216%2098%20330%20114> +216 52 385 114<tel:%2B216%2052%20385%20114> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Le 14 août 2016 à 01:52, Edward Morris <egmorris1@toast.net<mailto:egmorris1@toast.net>> a écrit : Thanks Greg. This is an issue popping up in multiple subgroups - thanks for taking the lead and getting an answer for all of us. Best, Ed Sent from my iPhone On 14 Aug 2016, at 01:03, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>> wrote: Based on this thread, it doesn't appear that there's a clear understanding of the role of "Observers" in Work Stream 2 Subgroups. The transcripts of the CCWG F2F in Helsinki and the next meeting after that don't shed any additional light on the matter. (There's no transcript for the most recent meeting yet.) The CCWG Wiki pages say that a Subgroup's Observers (1) don't "actively participate" in the subgroup and (2) won't have posting rights on the list. There's nothing specific about the Observers and the calls, but there's a note that anyone (not just Subgroup "Observers") can be a "silent observer" of any Subgroup call. Rather than speculating further, or exploring the formulations proposed on this thread (which I didn't see any support for in my review of CCWG materials) I will ask CCWG leadership and staff support to clarify the role of the Observers for all the Subgroups, including these specific points: 1. Will Observers get call invitations? 2. Can Observers join Adobe Connect and/or phone bridge for the call? 3. If yes, can Observers speak and/or write in the chat, or are they required to be silent/non-participating? 4. Do Observers receive the mailing list posts along with everyone else? 5. Will Observers have posting rights to the email list? I don't see any answers to these questions, except 5, and that's not quite settled, because Observers in this group have posted to this list. Let's see what we hear. Greg P.S. If you really want more detail on this, please see below.... I found the following information on CCWG wiki pages: 1. The wiki page for the Jurisdiction subgroup (https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction <https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction> ) says: Active Participants engage in the day-to-day discussions of the particular topic. Each active participant is expected to spend at least 3-5 hours per week on sub-group work and will have posting rights to the mailing list. Observers follow the topic discussion but not actively participate at the sub-group level. Observers are not expected to spend time on sub-group work and will not have posting rights to the mailing list. 2. The wiki page for WS2 plenary meetings (https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Meetings+-+WS2+Plenary <https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Meetings+-+WS2+Plenary> ) says: This Adobe Connect Room is open for Subgroup meetings to any and all silent observers: https://icann.adobeconnect.com/mssi-projects <https://icann.adobeconnect.com/mssi-projects> The exact meaning of "not actively participating" is not further explained. I have also noticed that people who are signed up as "Observers" have successfully posted to the list. So I don't think any of this information can lead to any absolute conclusions on the role of Observers in the Subgroups. In GNSO Working Groups, it is clear that Members receive call invitations (with Adobe Connect and dial-in info) and may log in and participate fully in those calls, and have rights to receive and post to the mailing list. On the other hand, it is clear that GNSO WG Observers do not receive the call invitations and do not have posting rights to the mailing list. As a rule, Observers do not attend the calls; if they want to follow the calls, they can use the recordings and transcripts. But the CCWG is not a GNSO WG, so these roles don't lead to absolute conclusions about Observers in the CCWG Subgroups either. On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 5:00 PM, Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com<mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com<mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com>');> > wrote: Jijani The concept of observer is clear The Person who participate at the meeting without the right to express any views without o the consent of the chair . He or she can not intervene more than once unless the lisse i directly touches his or her interest It shall noz eligible to vote 2016-08-13 20:06 GMT+02:00 Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji@gmail.com<mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','seun.ojedeji@gmail.com<mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com>');> >: As I am observer, this most likely would not reach the mailing list(which is right), what may not be accurate(which i also noted to Greg) is that observers are not restricted from joining the calls. They can indeed participate in the call if they so wish. So Tijani's understanding is somewhat how I understood this as well. Perhaps in the interest of saving funds, observers who wants to join the call may only use the AC and not receive special dialout. Regards Sent from my LG G4 Kindly excuse brevity and typos On 13 Aug 2016 18:51, "Tijani BEN JEMAA" <tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn<mailto:tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn<mailto:tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn>');> > wrote: Kavouss, There is no mention of « Observers » in the CCWG Charter. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tijani BEN JEMAA Executive Director Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (FMAI) Phone: +216 98 330 114<tel:%2B216%2098%20330%20114> <tel:%2B216%2098%20330%20114> +216 52 385 114<tel:%2B216%2052%20385%20114> <tel:%2B216%2052%20385%20114> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Le 13 août 2016 à 18:20, Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com<mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com<mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com>');> > a écrit : Tijani Peut être la définition se trouve dans notre Charter Salutations Kavouss 2016-08-13 19:07 GMT+02:00 Tijani BEN JEMAA <tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn<mailto:tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn<mailto:tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn>');> >: Bonsoir Alain, Je ne trouve pas de définition des observateurs pour les sous-groupes du WS 2. Maintenant, et d'une manière informelle, ils donnent aux observateurs le statut de « voyeurs » passifs. Au plaisir de te revoir à Hyderabad ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tijani BEN JEMAA Directeur Exécutif Fédération Méditerranéenne des associations d'Internet (FMAI) Phone: +216 98 330 114<tel:%2B216%2098%20330%20114> <tel:%2B216%2098%20330%20114> +216 52 385 114<tel:%2B216%2052%20385%20114> <tel:%2B216%2052%20385%20114> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Le 13 août 2016 à 00:18, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>');> > a écrit : Thanks, Vinay! You are correct. The page where the roles are discussed is here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Iw5yn9GRk8RcnTJzclwB-JuSe3B6JugEj_0oGOCs... <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Iw5yn9GRk8RcnTJzclwB-JuSe3B6JugEj_0oGOCs...> The document states that observers will not actively participate and will not have posting rights to the list. I believe the role of observers was also described on at least one of the CCWG calls, as well. Greg On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 5:31 AM, Vinay Kesari <vinay.kesari@gmail.com<mailto:vinay.kesari@gmail.com> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','vinay.kesari@gmail.com<mailto:vinay.kesari@gmail.com>');> > wrote: Hi Parminder, 1. People can check their status here: https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction <https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction> 2. Anyone can change their status from 'observer' to 'active participant' at any time. I believe the appropriate way would be to get in touch with staff at <acct-staff@icann.org<mailto:acct-staff@icann.org> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','acct-staff@icann.org<mailto:acct-staff@icann.org>');> > and simply request a change. You may perhaps be asked to fill out a Statement of Interest if you haven't already, but I don't think there are any other requirements. As far as you're concerned I think you're an active participant already. Happy to be corrected on all of this by anyone though. Regards, Vinay PS: Taking the liberty of responding since Greg will likely (hopefully?) be asleep at this point. :) On 12 August 2016 at 09:51, parminder <parminder@itforchange.net<mailto:parminder@itforchange.net> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','parminder@itforchange.net<mailto:parminder@itforchange.net>');> > wrote: On Friday 12 August 2016 02:19 AM, Greg Shatan wrote: All, I've been reviewing the results of the Doodle polls on call times, and I see that quite a number of votes came from "Observers." Thanks Greg. Two things; 1. How to know one's status? 2. Can one simply upgrade oneself from observer to member. best, parminder As I understand it, "Observers" do not get invited to the calls. If you want to participate in the calls, you will need to upgrade your status to "Member." I think we will need to find a way to discount the votes of Observers when considering the results, since their time constraints should not affect the outcome (because they won't be on the calls...) I appreciate the high level of compliance (another subgroup Rapporteur was concerned that their Doodle poll had zero responses), but I'm not sure why "Observers" voted at all. Please let me know if I'm missing something. Greg On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 3:12 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>');> > wrote: REMINDER: THE DOODLE POLLS WILL CLOSE TODAY, AUGUST 11, AT 23:59 UTC. PLEASE PARTICIPATE IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY DONE SO. THANK YOU. On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 6:21 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>');> > wrote: Dear Participants in the CCWG-Accountability WS2 Subgroup on Jurisdiction, I'm pleased to welcome you to the WS2 Jurisdiction Subgroup on behalf of myself and Vinay Kesari. Vinay and I are co-rapporteurs of this subgroup. We look forward to working with all of you. In order to get started we'll need to determine the best time or times to have Subgroup calls. The Subgroups can have meetings at 0500, 1300 and 1900 UTC. There are slots available on all days of the week (but not all slots are available on all days, since slots have already been taken by the CCWG and by other subgroups). Initially, we expect to have one 1-hour call each week. In order to determine when to have these calls, we have set up two Doodle polls: 1. Best time(s) of day for you. IMPORTANT NOTES: This is a day and time poll only, for the ongoing work of this group. Please ignore the specific dates next week. (For your convenience, times are shown in your time zone, not UTC.) LINK TO DOODLE POLL: http://doodle.com/poll/i9g3gmehaa6muhgr <http://doodle.com/poll/i9g3gmehaa6muhgr> 2. Rotation vs. fixed time. LINK TO DOODLE POLL: http://doodle.com/poll/2ypry3gfgzq4h62b <http://doodle.com/poll/2ypry3gfgzq4h62b> Please respond by 23:59 UTC on Thursday, August 11, so that we can get our process underway. Best regards, Greg Shatan _______________________________________________ Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org<mailto:Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org<mailto:Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org>');> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction> _______________________________________________ Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org<mailto:Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org<mailto:Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org>');> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction> _______________________________________________ Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org<mailto:Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org<mailto:Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org>');> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction> _______________________________________________ Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org<mailto:Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org<mailto:Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org>');> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction> _______________________________________________ Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org<mailto:Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org<mailto:Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org>');> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction> _______________________________________________ Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org<mailto:Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org<mailto:Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org>');> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction> _______________________________________________ Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org<mailto:Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org<mailto:Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org>');> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction> _______________________________________________ Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org<mailto:Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction _______________________________________________ Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org<mailto:Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction _______________________________________________ Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org<mailto:Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction _______________________________________________ Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org<mailto:Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction
On 17 Aug 2016, at 14:26, Mueller, Milton L <milton@gatech.edu> wrote:
Greg: I think it makes sense to alternate the meeting time, especially if there was something near to a bimodal distribution of preferences. While it may be true that a (NA-EU) majority finds the 19:00 UTC time most convenient, by alternating we can incorporate the preferences of a larger segment of the group.
Just as aside - AF finds 19:00 convenient too, but it seems the thoughts of Africa are not that relevant
All, Thanks for your comments to date. We've heard from about a half-dozen members so far, and it would be helpful to hear from more before fixing a long-term slot or rotation. In my view we need to accommodate our members as best we can, so we can do our work; those are the demographics we need to deal with. I will note that "Iran and west" includes not only NA and EU, but also AF (as pointed out by Mike Silber) and SA, as well as the Middle East, Western Asia and portions of Central Asia. I will also note that among the 4 respondents from "east of Iran" the votes for the 13:00 time slot, there were 2 yes votes, 1 if need be and 1 no. All that said, this is a decision to be made by the group, and as such, the more members' voices heard the better. I'm not sure running another doodle poll would help, but I'd rather let the discussion go forward first. One shortcoming of polls is that they do not allow for dialogue. As such, if there is another poll, let's have it after further dialogue, so that the participants can keep in mind various viewpoints as they respond. In the interests of transparency, here are the quantitative results from the Doodle poll. I excluded all results involving the 05:00 time slot, since there was little support for this slot in any configuration. Greg *FIXED TIME VS. ROTATION SURVEY* *MEMBERS ONLY* *Yes* *If Need be* *No* 19:00 Fixed Time 18 1 4 13:00 Fixed Time 10 3 10 13/19 Rotation 11 7 5 *ALL PARTICIPANTS* 19:00 Fixed Time 21 2 7 13:00 Fixed Time 13 5 12 13/19 Rotation 13 9 8 *TIME OF DAY SURVEY *(Yes : If Need Be : No) *MEMBERS ONLY* *Monday* *Tuesday* *Wednesday* *Thursday* *Friday* 19:00 20:0:9 16:1:11 17:1:10 17:0:11 14:0:14 13:00 10:2:17 17:4:11 14:3:11 14:2:12 15:2:11 *ALL PARTICIPANTS* 19:00 24:2:10 19:3:14 21:2:14 20:0:16 18:1:17 13:00 15:2:19 17:5:14 19:3:14 17:2:17 20:2:14 On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 11:13 AM, Mike Silber <silber.mike@gmail.com> wrote:
On 17 Aug 2016, at 14:26, Mueller, Milton L <milton@gatech.edu> wrote:
Greg: I think it makes sense to alternate the meeting time, especially if there was something near to a bimodal distribution of preferences. While it may be true that a (NA-EU) majority finds the 19:00 UTC time most convenient, by alternating we can incorporate the preferences of a larger segment of the group.
Just as aside - AF finds 19:00 convenient too, but it seems the thoughts of Africa are not that relevant
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Thanks Greg and others for moving this forward. I personally think that the time should be rotated to allow for a fair distribution of the inconvenience of participating in off-hours. David David McAuley International Policy Manager Verisign Inc. 703-948-4154 From: ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Greg Shatan Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 1:30 PM To: Mike Silber Cc: ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org Subject: Re: [Ws2-jurisdiction] RES: Welcome to the WS2 Jurisdiction Subgroup! All, Thanks for your comments to date. We've heard from about a half-dozen members so far, and it would be helpful to hear from more before fixing a long-term slot or rotation. In my view we need to accommodate our members as best we can, so we can do our work; those are the demographics we need to deal with. I will note that "Iran and west" includes not only NA and EU, but also AF (as pointed out by Mike Silber) and SA, as well as the Middle East, Western Asia and portions of Central Asia. I will also note that among the 4 respondents from "east of Iran" the votes for the 13:00 time slot, there were 2 yes votes, 1 if need be and 1 no. All that said, this is a decision to be made by the group, and as such, the more members' voices heard the better. I'm not sure running another doodle poll would help, but I'd rather let the discussion go forward first. One shortcoming of polls is that they do not allow for dialogue. As such, if there is another poll, let's have it after further dialogue, so that the participants can keep in mind various viewpoints as they respond. In the interests of transparency, here are the quantitative results from the Doodle poll. I excluded all results involving the 05:00 time slot, since there was little support for this slot in any configuration. Greg FIXED TIME VS. ROTATION SURVEY MEMBERS ONLY Yes If Need be No 19:00 Fixed Time 18 1 4 13:00 Fixed Time 10 3 10 13/19 Rotation 11 7 5 ALL PARTICIPANTS 19:00 Fixed Time 21 2 7 13:00 Fixed Time 13 5 12 13/19 Rotation 13 9 8 TIME OF DAY SURVEY (Yes : If Need Be : No) MEMBERS ONLY Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday 19:00 20:0:9 16:1:11 17:1:10 17:0:11 14:0:14 13:00 10:2:17 17:4:11 14:3:11 14:2:12 15:2:11 ALL PARTICIPANTS 19:00 24:2:10 19:3:14 21:2:14 20:0:16 18:1:17 13:00 15:2:19 17:5:14 19:3:14 17:2:17 20:2:14 On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 11:13 AM, Mike Silber <silber.mike@gmail.com<mailto:silber.mike@gmail.com>> wrote: On 17 Aug 2016, at 14:26, Mueller, Milton L <milton@gatech.edu<mailto:milton@gatech.edu>> wrote: Greg: I think it makes sense to alternate the meeting time, especially if there was something near to a bimodal distribution of preferences. While it may be true that a (NA-EU) majority finds the 19:00 UTC time most convenient, by alternating we can incorporate the preferences of a larger segment of the group. Just as aside - AF finds 19:00 convenient too, but it seems the thoughts of Africa are not that relevant _______________________________________________ Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org<mailto:Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction
Looking at these numbers the only truly conclusive thing is that we should NOT have a 13:00 fixed time, and that we should do at least one of our monthly or biweekly meetings on Monday 19:00. Less clearly, it indicates that we should have a Monday 19:00, and a Tuesday or Friday 13:00 rotation. Pay attention to the “No” votes, which indicate either that someone cannot make it, or really doesn’t want to do it at that time/day. Try to minimize No and Maximize Yes+Ifneedbe. If you go by “Members only” votes, looks like the best rotation would be Monday 19:00, Tuesday 13:00. If you go by All Participants all times other than Monday 19:00 have 14 or more No votes. The highest Yes + Need Be votes and lowest No votes occur on Wednesday and Friday. --MM FIXED TIME VS. ROTATION SURVEY MEMBERS ONLY Yes If Need be No 19:00 Fixed Time 18 1 4 13:00 Fixed Time 10 3 10 13/19 Rotation 11 7 5 ALL PARTICIPANTS 19:00 Fixed Time 21 2 7 13:00 Fixed Time 13 5 12 13/19 Rotation 13 9 8 TIME OF DAY SURVEY (Yes : If Need Be : No) MEMBERS ONLY Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday 19:00 20:0:9 16:1:11 17:1:10 17:0:11 14:0:14 13:00 10:2:17 17:4:11 14:3:11 14:2:12 15:2:11 ALL PARTICIPANTS 19:00 24:2:10 19:3:14 21:2:14 20:0:16 18:1:17 13:00 15:2:19 17:5:14 19:3:14 17:2:17 20:2:14
Dear Greg and Vinay, I agree with Parminder and, based on the results, would humbly suggest a balanced approach with regards the two most preferable timing options: two meetings a month at 19 UTC and the two others at 13 UTC. As to the scoping document, I wonder to what extent it will differ from the WS1 report in terms of substance. This subgroup should work based on what has been agreed by the CCWG as a whole and that is the report we have put together last March. Wouldn't it make sense to have our first meeting next Monday, August 22nd, having the WS1 as a starting point? Thanks and regards, Secretário Pedro Ivo Ferraz da Silva Divisão da Sociedade da Informação (DI) Ministério das Relações Exteriores - Brasil T: + 55 61 2030-6609 Secretary Pedro Ivo Ferraz da Silva Division of Information Society (DI) Ministry of External Relations - Brazil T: + 55 61 2030-6609 -----Mensagem original----- De: ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org] Em nome de parminder Enviada em: quarta-feira, 17 de agosto de 2016 01:21 Para: ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org Assunto: Re: [Ws2-jurisdiction] RES: Welcome to the WS2 Jurisdiction Subgroup! On Wednesday 17 August 2016 03:35 AM, Greg Shatan wrote: Pedro, Based on the Doodle Poll, the largest number of positive answers were for: * Meetings at 19:00 UTC * A single meeting time rather than a rotation, with the single meeting time at 19:00 UTC Greg 1900 UTC means it is past midnight for all those on the east of Iran, which is more than half the world's population. If that is the voting preference of most members that simply says that the group is too heavily west loaded... It will be a pity if by such a timing we cause further exclusions. I would say that apart from just a count of preferences other factors like plausibility for most of the world time zones must also be considered. I really think the second option best below, of 1300 UTC is what we should go for. It gives the most even spread across the world. thanks, parminder * Monday was the most popular day for a meeting, with Thursday a close second. Only Friday had a significantly lower number of positive answers (not surprising, since this gets into Friday evening and night for many participants, when hopefully we all have better things to do...). These preferences were consistent whether all answers were considered or only those of members. When only members' answers were considered, the above preferences were more pronounced. By far the lowest number of positive answers were for meetings at 05:00 UTC and for any rotation that included meetings at 05:00 UTC. I think we can discard those entirely in our consideration. There were a moderate number of positive answers for meetings at 13:00 UTC, but not very close to those for 19:00 UTC. There were also a moderate number of positive answers for a 13:00/19:00 rotation. I have not yet conferred with Vinay on this point, but based on these answers, the preferred choice would be to have all meetings at 19:00 UTC (and likely on Monday or Thursday). A potential alternative is to have one meeting a month at 13:00, and three at 19:00, roughly reflecting the weight of the preferences. Given the general preference, it seems fair to schedule the first meeting for 19:00 hours (day subject to review of the Master Calendar). In terms of timing, I have been reluctant to schedule our first meeting until the scoping document is available and some time has been allowed for members to review it. I believe it's important for this document to be the subject of discussion on our first call. In addition to scope itself, this would tend to influence our overall work plan. As of now, the scoping document has not yet been published. I will check with staff to get an ETA (it was supposed to be some time this week). If we have an ETA, then we can use that to schedule a first call, even before the document is actually available. As for the role of Observers on calls, I tend to agree that if they are on a call, they should be in listening/reading mode only. Observers will not receive call invitations, so it would be up to them to calendar those calls. It also appears that Observers would need to be on the "honor system"; there appears to be no technical way to put the Observers into listening/reading mode. (I will ask Staff to explore this further, as I believe I've been in Adobe Connect rooms where I could not post in the chat or open my microphone, and I've certainly been on listen-only conference calls. I guess the question is whether this can be done "granularly," allowing for both members and observers at the same time.) Greg On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 2:49 PM, Pedro Ivo Ferraz da Silva <pedro.ivo@itamaraty.gov.br> wrote: Dear Greg and Vinay, Do we have a decision with respect to how to move forward with the scheduling of the first meeting? Based on the answers from Bernard Turcotte, I would suggest we consider the doodle poll answers from subgroup members only. Given that anyone at any time can become a member, I would also say that observers should be able to join the calls in silent (just listening/reading) mode. Kind regards, Secretário Pedro Ivo Ferraz da Silva Divisão da Sociedade da Informação (DI) Ministério das Relações Exteriores - Brasil T: + 55 61 2030-6609 <tel:%2B%2055%2061%202030-6609> Secretary Pedro Ivo Ferraz da Silva Division of Information Society (DI) Ministry of External Relations - Brazil T: + 55 61 2030-6609 <tel:%2B%2055%2061%202030-6609> -----Mensagem original----- De: ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org> ] Em nome de Tijani BEN JEMAA Enviada em: domingo, 14 de agosto de 2016 03:35 Para: Edward Morris Cc: ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org Assunto: Re: [Ws2-jurisdiction] Welcome to the WS2 Jurisdiction Subgroup! Thanks Greg, I made the same search and found the same result. I subscribed to the Jurisdiction Sub-Group as an observer, but when you said that observers don't have to fill the doodle in, I immediately asked the staff to become member, and I'm now member. That's why I can post to the mailing list. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tijani BEN JEMAA Executive Director Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (FMAI) Phone: +216 98 330 114 <tel:%2B216%2098%20330%20114> +216 52 385 114 <tel:%2B216%2052%20385%20114> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Le 14 août 2016 à 01:52, Edward Morris <egmorris1@toast.net> a écrit : Thanks Greg. This is an issue popping up in multiple subgroups - thanks for taking the lead and getting an answer for all of us. Best, Ed Sent from my iPhone On 14 Aug 2016, at 01:03, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> wrote: Based on this thread, it doesn't appear that there's a clear understanding of the role of "Observers" in Work Stream 2 Subgroups. The transcripts of the CCWG F2F in Helsinki and the next meeting after that don't shed any additional light on the matter. (There's no transcript for the most recent meeting yet.) The CCWG Wiki pages say that a Subgroup's Observers (1) don't "actively participate" in the subgroup and (2) won't have posting rights on the list. There's nothing specific about the Observers and the calls, but there's a note that anyone (not just Subgroup "Observers") can be a "silent observer" of any Subgroup call. Rather than speculating further, or exploring the formulations proposed on this thread (which I didn't see any support for in my review of CCWG materials) I will ask CCWG leadership and staff support to clarify the role of the Observers for all the Subgroups, including these specific points: 1. Will Observers get call invitations? 2. Can Observers join Adobe Connect and/or phone bridge for the call? 3. If yes, can Observers speak and/or write in the chat, or are they required to be silent/non-participating? 4. Do Observers receive the mailing list posts along with everyone else? 5. Will Observers have posting rights to the email list? I don't see any answers to these questions, except 5, and that's not quite settled, because Observers in this group have posted to this list. Let's see what we hear. Greg P.S. If you really want more detail on this, please see below.... I found the following information on CCWG wiki pages: 1. The wiki page for the Jurisdiction subgroup (https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction <https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction> <https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction <https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction> > ) says: Active Participants engage in the day-to-day discussions of the particular topic. Each active participant is expected to spend at least 3-5 hours per week on sub-group work and will have posting rights to the mailing list. Observers follow the topic discussion but not actively participate at the sub-group level. Observers are not expected to spend time on sub-group work and will not have posting rights to the mailing list. 2. The wiki page for WS2 plenary meetings (https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Meetings+-+WS2+Plenary <https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Meetings+-+WS2+Plenary> <https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Meetings+-+WS2+Plenary <https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Meetings+-+WS2+Plenary> > ) says: This Adobe Connect Room is open for Subgroup meetings to any and all silent observers: https://icann.adobeconnect.com/mssi-projects <https://icann.adobeconnect.com/mssi-projects> <https://icann.adobeconnect.com/mssi-projects <https://icann.adobeconnect.com/mssi-projects> > The exact meaning of "not actively participating" is not further explained. I have also noticed that people who are signed up as "Observers" have successfully posted to the list. So I don't think any of this information can lead to any absolute conclusions on the role of Observers in the Subgroups. In GNSO Working Groups, it is clear that Members receive call invitations (with Adobe Connect and dial-in info) and may log in and participate fully in those calls, and have rights to receive and post to the mailing list. On the other hand, it is clear that GNSO WG Observers do not receive the call invitations and do not have posting rights to the mailing list. As a rule, Observers do not attend the calls; if they want to follow the calls, they can use the recordings and transcripts. But the CCWG is not a GNSO WG, so these roles don't lead to absolute conclusions about Observers in the CCWG Subgroups either. On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 5:00 PM, Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com <mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com> ');> > wrote: Jijani The concept of observer is clear The Person who participate at the meeting without the right to express any views without o the consent of the chair . He or she can not intervene more than once unless the lisse i directly touches his or her interest It shall noz eligible to vote 2016-08-13 20:06 GMT+02:00 Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','seun.ojedeji@gmail.com <mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com> ');> >: As I am observer, this most likely would not reach the mailing list(which is right), what may not be accurate(which i also noted to Greg) is that observers are not restricted from joining the calls. They can indeed participate in the call if they so wish. So Tijani's understanding is somewhat how I understood this as well. Perhaps in the interest of saving funds, observers who wants to join the call may only use the AC and not receive special dialout. Regards Sent from my LG G4 Kindly excuse brevity and typos On 13 Aug 2016 18:51, "Tijani BEN JEMAA" <tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn <mailto:tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn> ');> > wrote: Kavouss, There is no mention of « Observers » in the CCWG Charter. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tijani BEN JEMAA Executive Director Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (FMAI) Phone: +216 98 330 114 <tel:%2B216%2098%20330%20114> <tel:%2B216%2098%20330%20114> +216 52 385 114 <tel:%2B216%2052%20385%20114> <tel:%2B216%2052%20385%20114> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Le 13 août 2016 à 18:20, Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com <mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com> ');> > a écrit : Tijani Peut être la définition se trouve dans notre Charter Salutations Kavouss 2016-08-13 19:07 GMT+02:00 Tijani BEN JEMAA <tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn <mailto:tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn> ');> >: Bonsoir Alain, Je ne trouve pas de définition des observateurs pour les sous-groupes du WS 2. Maintenant, et d'une manière informelle, ils donnent aux observateurs le statut de « voyeurs » passifs. Au plaisir de te revoir à Hyderabad ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tijani BEN JEMAA Directeur Exécutif Fédération Méditerranéenne des associations d'Internet (FMAI) Phone: +216 98 330 114 <tel:%2B216%2098%20330%20114> <tel:%2B216%2098%20330%20114> +216 52 385 114 <tel:%2B216%2052%20385%20114> <tel:%2B216%2052%20385%20114> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Le 13 août 2016 à 00:18, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> ');> > a écrit : Thanks, Vinay! You are correct. The page where the roles are discussed is here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Iw5yn9GRk8RcnTJzclwB-JuSe3B6JugEj_0oGOCs... <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Iw5yn9GRk8RcnTJzclwB-JuSe3B6JugEj_0oGOCs...> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Iw5yn9GRk8RcnTJzclwB-JuSe3B6JugEj_0oGOCs... <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Iw5yn9GRk8RcnTJzclwB-JuSe3B6JugEj_0oGOCs...> > The document states that observers will not actively participate and will not have posting rights to the list. I believe the role of observers was also described on at least one of the CCWG calls, as well. Greg On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 5:31 AM, Vinay Kesari <vinay.kesari@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','vinay.kesari@gmail.com <mailto:vinay.kesari@gmail.com> ');> > wrote: Hi Parminder, 1. People can check their status here: https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction <https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction> <https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction <https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction> > 2. Anyone can change their status from 'observer' to 'active participant' at any time. I believe the appropriate way would be to get in touch with staff at <acct-staff@icann.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','acct-staff@icann.org <mailto:acct-staff@icann.org> ');> > and simply request a change. You may perhaps be asked to fill out a Statement of Interest if you haven't already, but I don't think there are any other requirements. As far as you're concerned I think you're an active participant already. Happy to be corrected on all of this by anyone though. Regards, Vinay PS: Taking the liberty of responding since Greg will likely (hopefully?) be asleep at this point. :) On 12 August 2016 at 09:51, parminder <parminder@itforchange.net <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','parminder@itforchange.net <mailto:parminder@itforchange.net> ');> > wrote: On Friday 12 August 2016 02:19 AM, Greg Shatan wrote: All, I've been reviewing the results of the Doodle polls on call times, and I see that quite a number of votes came from "Observers." Thanks Greg. Two things; 1. How to know one's status? 2. Can one simply upgrade oneself from observer to member. best, parminder As I understand it, "Observers" do not get invited to the calls. If you want to participate in the calls, you will need to upgrade your status to "Member." I think we will need to find a way to discount the votes of Observers when considering the results, since their time constraints should not affect the outcome (because they won't be on the calls...) I appreciate the high level of compliance (another subgroup Rapporteur was concerned that their Doodle poll had zero responses), but I'm not sure why "Observers" voted at all. Please let me know if I'm missing something. Greg On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 3:12 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> ');> > wrote: REMINDER: THE DOODLE POLLS WILL CLOSE TODAY, AUGUST 11, AT 23:59 UTC. PLEASE PARTICIPATE IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY DONE SO. THANK YOU. On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 6:21 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> ');> > wrote: Dear Participants in the CCWG-Accountability WS2 Subgroup on Jurisdiction, I'm pleased to welcome you to the WS2 Jurisdiction Subgroup on behalf of myself and Vinay Kesari. Vinay and I are co-rapporteurs of this subgroup. We look forward to working with all of you. In order to get started we'll need to determine the best time or times to have Subgroup calls. The Subgroups can have meetings at 0500, 1300 and 1900 UTC. There are slots available on all days of the week (but not all slots are available on all days, since slots have already been taken by the CCWG and by other subgroups). Initially, we expect to have one 1-hour call each week. In order to determine when to have these calls, we have set up two Doodle polls: 1. Best time(s) of day for you. IMPORTANT NOTES: This is a day and time poll only, for the ongoing work of this group. Please ignore the specific dates next week. (For your convenience, times are shown in your time zone, not UTC.) LINK TO DOODLE POLL: http://doodle.com/poll/i9g3gmehaa6muhgr <http://doodle.com/poll/i9g3gmehaa6muhgr> <http://doodle.com/poll/i9g3gmehaa6muhgr <http://doodle.com/poll/i9g3gmehaa6muhgr> > 2. Rotation vs. fixed time. LINK TO DOODLE POLL: http://doodle.com/poll/2ypry3gfgzq4h62b <http://doodle.com/poll/2ypry3gfgzq4h62b> <http://doodle.com/poll/2ypry3gfgzq4h62b <http://doodle.com/poll/2ypry3gfgzq4h62b> > Please respond by 23:59 UTC on Thursday, August 11, so that we can get our process underway. 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Greg (and all) I personally prefer the 1900 UTC, but paraminders point is a reasonable one. I can live with 1300 UTC when and as necessary (though it will get harder for those to the West of me ). I write mostly to completely support your instinct that our first meeting should be about scoping and that we cant really have that meeting until we have a strawman scoping document to discuss. Indeed, I suspect strongly that our biggest decision of all will be to define what is and what is not within the ambit of our discussions and so we shouldnt start running until we have defined the distance to be run. Cheers Paul Paul Rosenzweig <mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com> paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com O: +1 (202) 547-0660 M: +1 (202) 329-9650 VOIP: +1 (202) 738-1739 <http://www.redbranchconsulting.com/> www.redbranchconsulting.com My PGP Key: <http://redbranchconsulting.com/who-we-are/public-pgp-key/> http://redbranchconsulting.com/who-we-are/public-pgp-key/ From: ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of parminder Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 12:21 AM To: ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org Subject: Re: [Ws2-jurisdiction] RES: Welcome to the WS2 Jurisdiction Subgroup! On Wednesday 17 August 2016 03:35 AM, Greg Shatan wrote: Pedro, Based on the Doodle Poll, the largest number of positive answers were for: * Meetings at 19:00 UTC * A single meeting time rather than a rotation, with the single meeting time at 19:00 UTC Greg 1900 UTC means it is past midnight for all those on the east of Iran, which is more than half the world's population. If that is the voting preference of most members that simply says that the group is too heavily west loaded... It will be a pity if by such a timing we cause further exclusions. I would say that apart from just a count of preferences other factors like plausibility for most of the world time zones must also be considered. I really think the second option best below, of 1300 UTC is what we should go for. It gives the most even spread across the world. thanks, parminder * Monday was the most popular day for a meeting, with Thursday a close second. Only Friday had a significantly lower number of positive answers (not surprising, since this gets into Friday evening and night for many participants, when hopefully we all have better things to do...). These preferences were consistent whether all answers were considered or only those of members. When only members' answers were considered, the above preferences were more pronounced. By far the lowest number of positive answers were for meetings at 05:00 UTC and for any rotation that included meetings at 05:00 UTC. I think we can discard those entirely in our consideration. There were a moderate number of positive answers for meetings at 13:00 UTC, but not very close to those for 19:00 UTC. There were also a moderate number of positive answers for a 13:00/19:00 rotation. I have not yet conferred with Vinay on this point, but based on these answers, the preferred choice would be to have all meetings at 19:00 UTC (and likely on Monday or Thursday). A potential alternative is to have one meeting a month at 13:00, and three at 19:00, roughly reflecting the weight of the preferences. Given the general preference, it seems fair to schedule the first meeting for 19:00 hours (day subject to review of the Master Calendar). In terms of timing, I have been reluctant to schedule our first meeting until the scoping document is available and some time has been allowed for members to review it. I believe it's important for this document to be the subject of discussion on our first call. In addition to scope itself, this would tend to influence our overall work plan. As of now, the scoping document has not yet been published. I will check with staff to get an ETA (it was supposed to be some time this week). If we have an ETA, then we can use that to schedule a first call, even before the document is actually available. As for the role of Observers on calls, I tend to agree that if they are on a call, they should be in listening/reading mode only. Observers will not receive call invitations, so it would be up to them to calendar those calls. It also appears that Observers would need to be on the "honor system"; there appears to be no technical way to put the Observers into listening/reading mode. (I will ask Staff to explore this further, as I believe I've been in Adobe Connect rooms where I could not post in the chat or open my microphone, and I've certainly been on listen-only conference calls. I guess the question is whether this can be done "granularly," allowing for both members and observers at the same time.) Greg On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 2:49 PM, Pedro Ivo Ferraz da Silva <pedro.ivo@itamaraty.gov.br <mailto:pedro.ivo@itamaraty.gov.br> > wrote: Dear Greg and Vinay, Do we have a decision with respect to how to move forward with the scheduling of the first meeting? Based on the answers from Bernard Turcotte, I would suggest we consider the doodle poll answers from subgroup members only. Given that anyone at any time can become a member, I would also say that observers should be able to join the calls in silent (just listening/reading) mode. Kind regards, Secretário Pedro Ivo Ferraz da Silva Divisão da Sociedade da Informação (DI) Ministério das Relações Exteriores - Brasil T: + 55 61 2030-6609 <tel:%2B%2055%2061%202030-6609> Secretary Pedro Ivo Ferraz da Silva Division of Information Society (DI) Ministry of External Relations - Brazil T: + 55 61 2030-6609 <tel:%2B%2055%2061%202030-6609> -----Mensagem original----- De: ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org> ] Em nome de Tijani BEN JEMAA Enviada em: domingo, 14 de agosto de 2016 03:35 Para: Edward Morris Cc: ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org <mailto:ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org> Assunto: Re: [Ws2-jurisdiction] Welcome to the WS2 Jurisdiction Subgroup! Thanks Greg, I made the same search and found the same result. I subscribed to the Jurisdiction Sub-Group as an observer, but when you said that observers dont have to fill the doodle in, I immediately asked the staff to become member, and Im now member. Thats why I can post to the mailing list. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Tijani BEN JEMAA Executive Director Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (FMAI) Phone: +216 98 330 114 <tel:%2B216%2098%20330%20114> +216 52 385 114 <tel:%2B216%2052%20385%20114> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Le 14 août 2016 à 01:52, Edward Morris <egmorris1@toast.net <mailto:egmorris1@toast.net> > a écrit : Thanks Greg. This is an issue popping up in multiple subgroups - thanks for taking the lead and getting an answer for all of us. Best, Ed Sent from my iPhone On 14 Aug 2016, at 01:03, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> > wrote: Based on this thread, it doesn't appear that there's a clear understanding of the role of "Observers" in Work Stream 2 Subgroups. The transcripts of the CCWG F2F in Helsinki and the next meeting after that don't shed any additional light on the matter. (There's no transcript for the most recent meeting yet.) The CCWG Wiki pages say that a Subgroup's Observers (1) don't "actively participate" in the subgroup and (2) won't have posting rights on the list. There's nothing specific about the Observers and the calls, but there's a note that anyone (not just Subgroup "Observers") can be a "silent observer" of any Subgroup call. Rather than speculating further, or exploring the formulations proposed on this thread (which I didn't see any support for in my review of CCWG materials) I will ask CCWG leadership and staff support to clarify the role of the Observers for all the Subgroups, including these specific points: 1. Will Observers get call invitations? 2. Can Observers join Adobe Connect and/or phone bridge for the call? 3. If yes, can Observers speak and/or write in the chat, or are they required to be silent/non-participating? 4. Do Observers receive the mailing list posts along with everyone else? 5. Will Observers have posting rights to the email list? I don't see any answers to these questions, except 5, and that's not quite settled, because Observers in this group have posted to this list. Let's see what we hear. Greg P.S. If you really want more detail on this, please see below.... I found the following information on CCWG wiki pages: 1. The wiki page for the Jurisdiction subgroup (https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction <https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction> ) says: Active Participants engage in the day-to-day discussions of the particular topic. Each active participant is expected to spend at least 3-5 hours per week on sub-group work and will have posting rights to the mailing list. Observers follow the topic discussion but not actively participate at the sub-group level. Observers are not expected to spend time on sub-group work and will not have posting rights to the mailing list. 2. The wiki page for WS2 plenary meetings (https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Meetings+-+WS2+Plenary <https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Meetings+-+WS2+Plenary> ) says: This Adobe Connect Room is open for Subgroup meetings to any and all silent observers: https://icann.adobeconnect.com/mssi-projects <https://icann.adobeconnect.com/mssi-projects> The exact meaning of "not actively participating" is not further explained. I have also noticed that people who are signed up as "Observers" have successfully posted to the list. So I don't think any of this information can lead to any absolute conclusions on the role of Observers in the Subgroups. In GNSO Working Groups, it is clear that Members receive call invitations (with Adobe Connect and dial-in info) and may log in and participate fully in those calls, and have rights to receive and post to the mailing list. On the other hand, it is clear that GNSO WG Observers do not receive the call invitations and do not have posting rights to the mailing list. As a rule, Observers do not attend the calls; if they want to follow the calls, they can use the recordings and transcripts. But the CCWG is not a GNSO WG, so these roles don't lead to absolute conclusions about Observers in the CCWG Subgroups either. On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 5:00 PM, Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com <mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com <mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com> ');> > wrote: Jijani The concept of observer is clear The Person who participate at the meeting without the right to express any views without o the consent of the chair . He or she can not intervene more than once unless the lisse i directly touches his or her interest It shall noz eligible to vote 2016-08-13 20:06 GMT+02:00 Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji@gmail.com <mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','seun.ojedeji@gmail.com <mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com> ');> >: As I am observer, this most likely would not reach the mailing list(which is right), what may not be accurate(which i also noted to Greg) is that observers are not restricted from joining the calls. They can indeed participate in the call if they so wish. So Tijani's understanding is somewhat how I understood this as well. Perhaps in the interest of saving funds, observers who wants to join the call may only use the AC and not receive special dialout. Regards Sent from my LG G4 Kindly excuse brevity and typos On 13 Aug 2016 18:51, "Tijani BEN JEMAA" <tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn <mailto:tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn <mailto:tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn> ');> > wrote: Kavouss, There is no mention of « Observers » in the CCWG Charter. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Tijani BEN JEMAA Executive Director Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (FMAI) Phone: +216 98 330 114 <tel:%2B216%2098%20330%20114> <tel:%2B216%2098%20330%20114> +216 52 385 114 <tel:%2B216%2052%20385%20114> <tel:%2B216%2052%20385%20114> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Le 13 août 2016 à 18:20, Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com <mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com <mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com> ');> > a écrit : Tijani Peut être la définition se trouve dans notre Charter Salutations Kavouss 2016-08-13 19:07 GMT+02:00 Tijani BEN JEMAA <tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn <mailto:tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn <mailto:tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn> ');> >: Bonsoir Alain, Je ne trouve pas de définition des observateurs pour les sous-groupes du WS 2. Maintenant, et dune manière informelle, ils donnent aux observateurs le statut de « voyeurs » passifs. Au plaisir de te revoir à Hyderabad ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Tijani BEN JEMAA Directeur Exécutif Fédération Méditerranéenne des associations d'Internet (FMAI) Phone: +216 98 330 114 <tel:%2B216%2098%20330%20114> <tel:%2B216%2098%20330%20114> +216 52 385 114 <tel:%2B216%2052%20385%20114> <tel:%2B216%2052%20385%20114> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Le 13 août 2016 à 00:18, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> ');> > a écrit : Thanks, Vinay! You are correct. The page where the roles are discussed is here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Iw5yn9GRk8RcnTJzclwB-JuSe3B6JugEj_0oGOCs eqU/edit <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Iw5yn9GRk8RcnTJzclwB-JuSe3B6JugEj_0oGOC seqU/edit> The document states that observers will not actively participate and will not have posting rights to the list. I believe the role of observers was also described on at least one of the CCWG calls, as well. Greg On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 5:31 AM, Vinay Kesari <vinay.kesari@gmail.com <mailto:vinay.kesari@gmail.com> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','vinay.kesari@gmail.com <mailto:vinay.kesari@gmail.com> ');> > wrote: Hi Parminder, 1. People can check their status here: https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction <https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction> 2. Anyone can change their status from 'observer' to 'active participant' at any time. I believe the appropriate way would be to get in touch with staff at <acct-staff@icann.org <mailto:acct-staff@icann.org> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','acct-staff@icann.org <mailto:acct-staff@icann.org> ');> > and simply request a change. You may perhaps be asked to fill out a Statement of Interest if you haven't already, but I don't think there are any other requirements. As far as you're concerned I think you're an active participant already. Happy to be corrected on all of this by anyone though. Regards, Vinay PS: Taking the liberty of responding since Greg will likely (hopefully?) be asleep at this point. :) On 12 August 2016 at 09:51, parminder <parminder@itforchange.net <mailto:parminder@itforchange.net> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','parminder@itforchange.net <mailto:parminder@itforchange.net> ');> > wrote: On Friday 12 August 2016 02:19 AM, Greg Shatan wrote: All, I've been reviewing the results of the Doodle polls on call times, and I see that quite a number of votes came from "Observers." Thanks Greg. Two things; 1. How to know one's status? 2. Can one simply upgrade oneself from observer to member. best, parminder As I understand it, "Observers" do not get invited to the calls. If you want to participate in the calls, you will need to upgrade your status to "Member." I think we will need to find a way to discount the votes of Observers when considering the results, since their time constraints should not affect the outcome (because they won't be on the calls...) I appreciate the high level of compliance (another subgroup Rapporteur was concerned that their Doodle poll had zero responses), but I'm not sure why "Observers" voted at all. Please let me know if I'm missing something. Greg On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 3:12 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> ');> > wrote: REMINDER: THE DOODLE POLLS WILL CLOSE TODAY, AUGUST 11, AT 23:59 UTC. PLEASE PARTICIPATE IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY DONE SO. THANK YOU. On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 6:21 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> ');> > wrote: Dear Participants in the CCWG-Accountability WS2 Subgroup on Jurisdiction, Im pleased to welcome you to the WS2 Jurisdiction Subgroup on behalf of myself and Vinay Kesari. Vinay and I are co-rapporteurs of this subgroup. We look forward to working with all of you. In order to get started well need to determine the best time or times to have Subgroup calls. The Subgroups can have meetings at 0500, 1300 and 1900 UTC. There are slots available on all days of the week (but not all slots are available on all days, since slots have already been taken by the CCWG and by other subgroups). Initially, we expect to have one 1-hour call each week. In order to determine when to have these calls, we have set up two Doodle polls: 1. Best time(s) of day for you. IMPORTANT NOTES: This is a day and time poll only, for the ongoing work of this group. Please ignore the specific dates next week. (For your convenience, times are shown in your time zone, not UTC.) LINK TO DOODLE POLL: http://doodle.com/poll/i9g3gmehaa6muhgr <http://doodle.com/poll/i9g3gmehaa6muhgr> 2. Rotation vs. fixed time. LINK TO DOODLE POLL: http://doodle.com/poll/2ypry3gfgzq4h62b <http://doodle.com/poll/2ypry3gfgzq4h62b> Please respond by 23:59 UTC on Thursday, August 11, so that we can get our process underway. 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participants (12)
-
Edward Morris -
Greg Shatan -
Jeff Neuman -
Jorge.Cancio＠bakom.admin.ch -
Kavouss Arasteh -
McAuley, David -
Mike Silber -
Mueller, Milton L -
parminder -
Paul Rosenzweig -
Pedro Ivo Ferraz da Silva -
Tijani BEN JEMAA