on the NomCom rebalancing
Hi all This email is about the response to Tripti's letter on the rebalancing of the NomCom. The draft was on our list recently and is downloadable here: https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/228788163/Item%2012%20-%20d... In specific reply to Question 4 almost at the end of the doc, the suggestion is that there be a Cross Community Working Group to do the work of developing a change to the NomCom's balance, which will lead to bylaws changes. I can't think of a different way to do it. * Clearly the Board coming up with a proposal and seeking public comment isn't the right way. * The NomCom can't propose changes to itself. * The SO/AC Chairs leadership forum does not have the mandate to propose specifics in such a potentially contentious area. * Getting some external consultant to do a review would just be an interesting input - we clearly can't just say "ok" to something someone outside the community wrote for us. Perhaps we could expand the point to say something like the following - shared as a rough draft to see what people think... 4. How do you suggest that the NomCom's composition be rebalanced? It is our view that, the rebalancing should be achieved through a cross-community group process, chartered by the community and Board which ultimately would result in suggestions for Bylaw changes. We think work on this question, in whatever form is finally agreed, should start expeditiously since it will take some time to start and some time to do the work. We are prepared to participate in a chartering group in the near future. The goal should be that there is a process of some type proposed for discussion at ICANN78 in October. _______ Jordan Carter Internet Governance and Policy Director jordan.carter@auda.org.au<mailto:jordan.carter@auda.org.au> +61 417 243 647 [https://assets.auda.org.au/a/2020-11/Asset+19.png] .au Domain Administration www.auda.org.au<http://www.auda.org.au/> [cid:image001.png@01D9A00B.66A6C470]<https://www.auda.org.au/join-auda/apply-now> ________________________________ Important Notice This email may contain information which is confidential and/or subject to legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or copy any part of this email. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately.
It's hard to see another way to do it. Does anyone have any insights as to how other participants (such as the GNSO and ALAC) are looking at this? Might be a good idea to coordinate responses, just a thought. From: Ccnso-council <ccnso-council-bounces@icann.org> On Behalf Of Jordan Carter via Ccnso-council Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2023 7:37 PM To: ccnso-Council@icann.org Subject: [ccnso-council] on the NomCom rebalancing Hi all This email is about the response to Tripti's letter on the rebalancing of the NomCom. The draft was on our list recently and is downloadable here: https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/228788163/Item%2012%20-%20d... In specific reply to Question 4 almost at the end of the doc, the suggestion is that there be a Cross Community Working Group to do the work of developing a change to the NomCom's balance, which will lead to bylaws changes. I can't think of a different way to do it. * Clearly the Board coming up with a proposal and seeking public comment isn't the right way. * The NomCom can't propose changes to itself. * The SO/AC Chairs leadership forum does not have the mandate to propose specifics in such a potentially contentious area. * Getting some external consultant to do a review would just be an interesting input - we clearly can't just say "ok" to something someone outside the community wrote for us. Perhaps we could expand the point to say something like the following - shared as a rough draft to see what people think... 4. How do you suggest that the NomCom's composition be rebalanced? It is our view that, the rebalancing should be achieved through a cross-community group process, chartered by the community and Board which ultimately would result in suggestions for Bylaw changes. We think work on this question, in whatever form is finally agreed, should start expeditiously since it will take some time to start and some time to do the work. We are prepared to participate in a chartering group in the near future. The goal should be that there is a process of some type proposed for discussion at ICANN78 in October. _______ Jordan Carter Internet Governance and Policy Director jordan.carter@auda.org.au<mailto:jordan.carter@auda.org.au> +61 417 243 647 [https://secure-web.cisco.com/1UqSlrfCb3SeneKhC7SQWPjkLgv62ociExMSdhFkhMRJXX2...] .au Domain Administration www.auda.org.au<http://secure-web.cisco.com/1tLyEmkjmhYFCWp5bgJQVgSwleEvB7_AwqkIYrVw9tZE9Azq...> [cid:image001.png@01D99FC6.E99976B0]<https://secure-web.cisco.com/1mSZ3hHMSUiPpbxwzjI1buSLfP8VedKPO875ANbK91fQRCG...> ________________________________ Important Notice This email may contain information which is confidential and/or subject to legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or copy any part of this email. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately.
Dear All We had a great ICANN meeting and I hope everyone arrived safely back home. Nick, so far we don't have any input on what other SOs/ACs are going to respond. During one of the Chairs monthly calls it was brought to the table and it seemed that we didn't need coordination. If we feel it would be best to share views before the formal response I can always reach out to them and seek input. Here is the ICANN Correspondence: https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/correspondence There are very few responses already regarding the NomCom rebalancing topic. On the other hand, some of you approached me to be allowed to contribute to the response and here I am sharing the Google Doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OeX5vRNKkgOME5IWbTeAPxffdMhednPE/edit Please add your comments and suggestions by the 22 June. Afterwards the Ad Hoc team will clean it up and circulate a final version for approval on the 26 June. Best regards, Alejandra ******************************************* Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. Sing like nobody's listening. And live like it's Heaven on Earth. ******************************************* On Thu, Jun 15, 2023 at 9:21 PM Nick Wenban-Smith via Ccnso-council < ccnso-council@icann.org> wrote:
It’s hard to see another way to do it.
Does anyone have any insights as to how other participants (such as the GNSO and ALAC) are looking at this? Might be a good idea to coordinate responses, just a thought.
*From:* Ccnso-council <ccnso-council-bounces@icann.org> *On Behalf Of *Jordan Carter via Ccnso-council *Sent:* Thursday, June 15, 2023 7:37 PM *To:* ccnso-Council@icann.org *Subject:* [ccnso-council] on the NomCom rebalancing
Hi all
This email is about the response to Tripti’s letter on the rebalancing of the NomCom.
The draft was on our list recently and is downloadable here: https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/228788163/Item%2012%20-%20d...
In specific reply to Question 4 almost at the end of the doc, the suggestion is that there be a Cross Community Working Group to do the work of developing a change to the NomCom’s balance, which will lead to bylaws changes.
I can’t think of a different way to do it.
- Clearly the Board coming up with a proposal and seeking public comment isn’t the right way. - The NomCom can’t propose changes to itself. - The SO/AC Chairs leadership forum does not have the mandate to propose specifics in such a potentially contentious area. - Getting some external consultant to do a review would just be an interesting input – we clearly can’t just say “ok” to something someone outside the community wrote for us.
Perhaps we could expand the point to say something like the following – shared as a rough draft to see what people think…
*4. How do you suggest that the NomCom’s composition be rebalanced?*
It is our view that, the rebalancing should be achieved through a cross-community group process, chartered by the community and Board which ultimately would result in suggestions for Bylaw changes.
We think work on this question, in whatever form is finally agreed, should start expeditiously since it will take some time to start and some time to do the work. We are prepared to participate in a chartering group in the near future. The goal should be that there is a process of some type proposed for discussion at ICANN78 in October.
_______
*Jordan Carter*
Internet Governance and Policy Director
jordan.carter@auda.org.au
+61 417 243 647
*.au Domain Administration*
www.auda.org.au <http://secure-web.cisco.com/1tLyEmkjmhYFCWp5bgJQVgSwleEvB7_AwqkIYrVw9tZE9Azq...>
<https://secure-web.cisco.com/1mSZ3hHMSUiPpbxwzjI1buSLfP8VedKPO875ANbK91fQRCG...>
------------------------------
*Important Notice* This email may contain information which is confidential and/or subject to legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or copy any part of this email. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately.
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Hi, Further Jordan and Nick’s remarks, I personally do not see how we can achieve a rebalancing effort in any of our lifetimes without an approach that does not involve expansion of the NomCom membership. I just do not see the other SO/AC’s giving up some seats at the table to the ccNSO. So I think, to use an American expression regarding our Supreme court, we need to “ack the NomCom.” Best Regards, Stephen From: Ccnso-council <ccnso-council-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Alejandra Reynoso Barral via Ccnso-council <ccnso-council@icann.org> Reply-To: Alejandra Reynoso Barral <alejandra.reynoso@gmail.com> Date: Monday, June 19, 2023 at 08:29 To: Nick Wenban-Smith <Nick.Wenban-Smith@nominet.uk> Cc: "ccnso-Council@icann.org" <ccnso-council@icann.org> Subject: Re: [ccnso-council] on the NomCom rebalancing Dear All We had a great ICANN meeting and I hope everyone arrived safely back home. Nick, so far we don't have any input on what other SOs/ACs are going to respond. During one of the Chairs monthly calls it was brought to the table and it seemed that we didn't need coordination. If we feel it would be best to share views before the formal response I can always reach out to them and seek input. Here is the ICANN Correspondence: https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/correspondence There are very few responses already regarding the NomCom rebalancing topic. On the other hand, some of you approached me to be allowed to contribute to the response and here I am sharing the Google Doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OeX5vRNKkgOME5IWbTeAPxffdMhednPE/edit Please add your comments and suggestions by the 22 June. Afterwards the Ad Hoc team will clean it up and circulate a final version for approval on the 26 June. Best regards, Alejandra ******************************************* Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. Sing like nobody's listening. And live like it's Heaven on Earth. ******************************************* On Thu, Jun 15, 2023 at 9:21 PM Nick Wenban-Smith via Ccnso-council <ccnso-council@icann.org<mailto:ccnso-council@icann.org>> wrote: It’s hard to see another way to do it. Does anyone have any insights as to how other participants (such as the GNSO and ALAC) are looking at this? Might be a good idea to coordinate responses, just a thought. From: Ccnso-council <ccnso-council-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ccnso-council-bounces@icann.org>> On Behalf Of Jordan Carter via Ccnso-council Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2023 7:37 PM To: ccnso-Council@icann.org<mailto:ccnso-Council@icann.org> Subject: [ccnso-council] on the NomCom rebalancing Hi all This email is about the response to Tripti’s letter on the rebalancing of the NomCom. The draft was on our list recently and is downloadable here: https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/228788163/Item%2012%20-%20d... In specific reply to Question 4 almost at the end of the doc, the suggestion is that there be a Cross Community Working Group to do the work of developing a change to the NomCom’s balance, which will lead to bylaws changes. I can’t think of a different way to do it. * Clearly the Board coming up with a proposal and seeking public comment isn’t the right way. * The NomCom can’t propose changes to itself. * The SO/AC Chairs leadership forum does not have the mandate to propose specifics in such a potentially contentious area. * Getting some external consultant to do a review would just be an interesting input – we clearly can’t just say “ok” to something someone outside the community wrote for us. Perhaps we could expand the point to say something like the following – shared as a rough draft to see what people think… 4. How do you suggest that the NomCom’s composition be rebalanced? It is our view that, the rebalancing should be achieved through a cross-community group process, chartered by the community and Board which ultimately would result in suggestions for Bylaw changes. We think work on this question, in whatever form is finally agreed, should start expeditiously since it will take some time to start and some time to do the work. We are prepared to participate in a chartering group in the near future. The goal should be that there is a process of some type proposed for discussion at ICANN78 in October. _______ Jordan Carter Internet Governance and Policy Director jordan.carter@auda.org.au<mailto:jordan.carter@auda.org.au> +61 417 243 647 [https://secure-web.cisco.com/1UqSlrfCb3SeneKhC7SQWPjkLgv62ociExMSdhFkhMRJXX2...] .au Domain Administration www.auda.org.au<http://secure-web.cisco.com/1tLyEmkjmhYFCWp5bgJQVgSwleEvB7_AwqkIYrVw9tZE9Azq...> [cid:188d39301f74cff311]<https://secure-web.cisco.com/1mSZ3hHMSUiPpbxwzjI1buSLfP8VedKPO875ANbK91fQRCG...> ________________________________ Important Notice This email may contain information which is confidential and/or subject to legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or copy any part of this email. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately. _______________________________________________ Ccnso-council mailing list Ccnso-council@icann.org<mailto:Ccnso-council@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccnso-council _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
Dear All: I agree with Stephen's remark, no SO or AC will give up seats at the table to increase ccNSO's participation. Consequently, it seems to me the logical path is to increase our number to 5 members (1 per region). I would agree to less than five if those that currently have five members cut down their membership to an equal number as the ccNSO. Regards, On Mon, Jun 19, 2023 at 12:09 PM Stephen Deerhake @ ASNIC via Ccnso-council <ccnso-council@icann.org> wrote:
Hi,
Further Jordan and Nick’s remarks, I personally do not see how we can achieve a rebalancing effort in any of our lifetimes without an approach that does not involve expansion of the NomCom membership.
I just do not see the other SO/AC’s giving up some seats at the table to the ccNSO. So I think, to use an American expression regarding our Supreme court, we need to “ack the NomCom.”
Best Regards,
Stephen
*From: *Ccnso-council <ccnso-council-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Alejandra Reynoso Barral via Ccnso-council <ccnso-council@icann.org> *Reply-To: *Alejandra Reynoso Barral <alejandra.reynoso@gmail.com> *Date: *Monday, June 19, 2023 at 08:29 *To: *Nick Wenban-Smith <Nick.Wenban-Smith@nominet.uk> *Cc: *"ccnso-Council@icann.org" <ccnso-council@icann.org> *Subject: *Re: [ccnso-council] on the NomCom rebalancing
Dear All
We had a great ICANN meeting and I hope everyone arrived safely back home.
Nick, so far we don't have any input on what other SOs/ACs are going to respond. During one of the Chairs monthly calls it was brought to the table and it seemed that we didn't need coordination. If we feel it would be best to share views before the formal response I can always reach out to them and seek input.
Here is the ICANN Correspondence: https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/correspondence
There are very few responses already regarding the NomCom rebalancing topic.
On the other hand, some of you approached me to be allowed to contribute to the response and here I am sharing the Google Doc:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OeX5vRNKkgOME5IWbTeAPxffdMhednPE/edit
Please add your comments and suggestions by the 22 June. Afterwards the Ad Hoc team will clean it up and circulate a final version for approval on the 26 June.
Best regards,
Alejandra
******************************************* Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. Sing like nobody's listening. And live like it's Heaven on Earth. *******************************************
On Thu, Jun 15, 2023 at 9:21 PM Nick Wenban-Smith via Ccnso-council < ccnso-council@icann.org> wrote:
It’s hard to see another way to do it.
Does anyone have any insights as to how other participants (such as the GNSO and ALAC) are looking at this? Might be a good idea to coordinate responses, just a thought.
*From:* Ccnso-council <ccnso-council-bounces@icann.org> *On Behalf Of *Jordan Carter via Ccnso-council *Sent:* Thursday, June 15, 2023 7:37 PM *To:* ccnso-Council@icann.org *Subject:* [ccnso-council] on the NomCom rebalancing
Hi all
This email is about the response to Tripti’s letter on the rebalancing of the NomCom.
The draft was on our list recently and is downloadable here: https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/228788163/Item%2012%20-%20d...
In specific reply to Question 4 almost at the end of the doc, the suggestion is that there be a Cross Community Working Group to do the work of developing a change to the NomCom’s balance, which will lead to bylaws changes.
I can’t think of a different way to do it.
- Clearly the Board coming up with a proposal and seeking public comment isn’t the right way. - The NomCom can’t propose changes to itself. - The SO/AC Chairs leadership forum does not have the mandate to propose specifics in such a potentially contentious area. - Getting some external consultant to do a review would just be an interesting input – we clearly can’t just say “ok” to something someone outside the community wrote for us.
Perhaps we could expand the point to say something like the following – shared as a rough draft to see what people think…
*4. How do you suggest that the NomCom’s composition be rebalanced?*
It is our view that, the rebalancing should be achieved through a cross-community group process, chartered by the community and Board which ultimately would result in suggestions for Bylaw changes.
We think work on this question, in whatever form is finally agreed, should start expeditiously since it will take some time to start and some time to do the work. We are prepared to participate in a chartering group in the near future. The goal should be that there is a process of some type proposed for discussion at ICANN78 in October.
_______
*Jordan Carter*
Internet Governance and Policy Director
jordan.carter@auda.org.au
+61 417 243 647
[image: https://secure-web.cisco.com/1UqSlrfCb3SeneKhC7SQWPjkLgv62ociExMSdhFkhMRJXX2...]
*.au Domain Administration*
www.auda.org.au <http://secure-web.cisco.com/1tLyEmkjmhYFCWp5bgJQVgSwleEvB7_AwqkIYrVw9tZE9Azq...>
[image: cid:188d39301f74cff311] <https://secure-web.cisco.com/1mSZ3hHMSUiPpbxwzjI1buSLfP8VedKPO875ANbK91fQRCG...>
------------------------------
*Important Notice* This email may contain information which is confidential and/or subject to legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or copy any part of this email. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately.
_______________________________________________ Ccnso-council mailing list Ccnso-council@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccnso-council _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
_______________________________________________ Ccnso-council mailing list Ccnso-council@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccnso-council _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
Pablo + 1 here! This is an old issue, never resolved. We are severely underrepresented in NomCom... best! demi On 19/06/2023 21:40, Pablo Rodriguez via Ccnso-council wrote:
Dear All: I agree with Stephen's remark, no SO or AC will give up seats at the table to increase ccNSO's participation. Consequently, it seems to me the logical path is to increase our number to 5 members (1 per region). I would agree to less than five if those that currently have five members cut down their membership to an equal number as the ccNSO. Regards,
On Mon, Jun 19, 2023 at 12:09 PM Stephen Deerhake @ ASNIC via Ccnso-council <ccnso-council@icann.org> wrote:
Hi,
Further Jordan and Nick’s remarks, I personally do not see how we can achieve a rebalancing effort in any of our lifetimes without an approach that does not involve expansion of the NomCom membership.
I just do not see the other SO/AC’s giving up some seats at the table to the ccNSO. So I think, to use an American expression regarding our Supreme court, we need to “ack the NomCom.”
Best Regards,
Stephen
*From: *Ccnso-council <ccnso-council-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Alejandra Reynoso Barral via Ccnso-council <ccnso-council@icann.org> *Reply-To: *Alejandra Reynoso Barral <alejandra.reynoso@gmail.com> *Date: *Monday, June 19, 2023 at 08:29 *To: *Nick Wenban-Smith <Nick.Wenban-Smith@nominet.uk> *Cc: *"ccnso-Council@icann.org" <ccnso-council@icann.org> *Subject: *Re: [ccnso-council] on the NomCom rebalancing
Dear All
We had a great ICANN meeting and I hope everyone arrived safely back home.
Nick, so far we don't have any input on what other SOs/ACs are going to respond. During one of the Chairs monthly calls it was brought to the table and it seemed that we didn't need coordination. If we feel it would be best to share views before the formal response I can always reach out to them and seek input.
Here is the ICANN Correspondence: https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/correspondence
There are very few responses already regarding the NomCom rebalancing topic.
On the other hand, some of you approached me to be allowed to contribute to the response and here I am sharing the Google Doc:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OeX5vRNKkgOME5IWbTeAPxffdMhednPE/edit
Please add your comments and suggestions by the 22 June. Afterwards the Ad Hoc team will clean it up and circulate a final version for approval on the 26 June.
Best regards,
Alejandra
******************************************* Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. Sing like nobody's listening. And live like it's Heaven on Earth. *******************************************
On Thu, Jun 15, 2023 at 9:21 PM Nick Wenban-Smith via Ccnso-council <ccnso-council@icann.org> wrote:
It’s hard to see another way to do it.
Does anyone have any insights as to how other participants (such as the GNSO and ALAC) are looking at this? Might be a good idea to coordinate responses, just a thought.
*From:* Ccnso-council <ccnso-council-bounces@icann.org> *On Behalf Of *Jordan Carter via Ccnso-council *Sent:* Thursday, June 15, 2023 7:37 PM *To:* ccnso-Council@icann.org *Subject:* [ccnso-council] on the NomCom rebalancing
Hi all
This email is about the response to Tripti’s letter on the rebalancing of the NomCom.
The draft was on our list recently and is downloadable here: https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/228788163/Item%2012%20-%20d... <https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/228788163/Item%2012%20-%20d...>
In specific reply to Question 4 almost at the end of the doc, the suggestion is that there be a Cross Community Working Group to do the work of developing a change to the NomCom’s balance, which will lead to bylaws changes.
I can’t think of a different way to do it.
* Clearly the Board coming up with a proposal and seeking public comment isn’t the right way. * The NomCom can’t propose changes to itself. * The SO/AC Chairs leadership forum does not have the mandate to propose specifics in such a potentially contentious area. * Getting some external consultant to do a review would just be an interesting input – we clearly can’t just say “ok” to something someone outside the community wrote for us.
Perhaps we could expand the point to say something like the following – shared as a rough draft to see what people think…
*4. How do you suggest that the NomCom’s composition be rebalanced?*
It is our view that, the rebalancing should be achieved through a cross-community group process, chartered by the community and Board which ultimately would result in suggestions for Bylaw changes.
We think work on this question, in whatever form is finally agreed, should start expeditiously since it will take some time to start and some time to do the work. We are prepared to participate in a chartering group in the near future. The goal should be that there is a process of some type proposed for discussion at ICANN78 in October.
_______
*Jordan Carter*
Internet Governance and Policy Director
jordan.carter@auda.org.au <mailto:jordan.carter@auda.org.au>
+61 417 243 647
https://secure-web.cisco.com/1UqSlrfCb3SeneKhC7SQWPjkLgv62ociExMSdhFkhMRJXX2...
*.au Domain Administration*
www.auda.org.au <http://secure-web.cisco.com/1tLyEmkjmhYFCWp5bgJQVgSwleEvB7_AwqkIYrVw9tZE9Azq...>
cid:188d39301f74cff311 <https://secure-web.cisco.com/1mSZ3hHMSUiPpbxwzjI1buSLfP8VedKPO875ANbK91fQRCG...>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Important Notice* This email may contain information which is confidential and/or subject to legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or copy any part of this email. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately.
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Hi all I think I share Irina's concern. In my view, the NomCom is already too big. It would be easier (but still controversial) to make it bigger by adding more ccNSO reps. But that might make the group entirely dysfunctional. Shouldn't we take care to make sure the system can work well, as well as redressing the share of power to more realistically reflect the importance of the ccNSO? Cheers Jordan -----Original Message----- From: Ccnso-council <ccnso-council-bounces@icann.org> On Behalf Of Demi Getschko via Ccnso-council Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2023 11:14 PM To: ccnso-council@icann.org Subject: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [ccnso-council] on the NomCom rebalancing Pablo + 1 here! This is an old issue, never resolved. We are severely underrepresented in NomCom... best! demi On 19/06/2023 21:40, Pablo Rodriguez via Ccnso-council wrote:
Dear All: I agree with Stephen's remark, no SO or AC will give up seats at the table to increase ccNSO's participation. Consequently, it seems to me the logical path is to increase our number to 5 members (1 per region). I would agree to less than five if those that currently have five members cut down their membership to an equal number as the ccNSO. Regards,
On Mon, Jun 19, 2023 at 12:09 PM Stephen Deerhake @ ASNIC via Ccnso-council <ccnso-council@icann.org> wrote:
Hi,
Further Jordan and Nick’s remarks, I personally do not see how we can achieve a rebalancing effort in any of our lifetimes without an approach that does not involve expansion of the NomCom membership.
I just do not see the other SO/AC’s giving up some seats at the table to the ccNSO. So I think, to use an American expression regarding our Supreme court, we need to “ack the NomCom.”
Best Regards,
Stephen
*From: *Ccnso-council <ccnso-council-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Alejandra Reynoso Barral via Ccnso-council <ccnso-council@icann.org> *Reply-To: *Alejandra Reynoso Barral <alejandra.reynoso@gmail.com> *Date: *Monday, June 19, 2023 at 08:29 *To: *Nick Wenban-Smith <Nick.Wenban-Smith@nominet.uk> *Cc: *"ccnso-Council@icann.org" <ccnso-council@icann.org> *Subject: *Re: [ccnso-council] on the NomCom rebalancing
Dear All
We had a great ICANN meeting and I hope everyone arrived safely back home.
Nick, so far we don't have any input on what other SOs/ACs are going to respond. During one of the Chairs monthly calls it was brought to the table and it seemed that we didn't need coordination. If we feel it would be best to share views before the formal response I can always reach out to them and seek input.
Here is the ICANN Correspondence:
https://www/. icann.org%2Fresources%2Fpages%2Fcorrespondence&data=05%7C01%7Cjordan.c arter%40auda.org.au%7C2acd2577d3e6469967e008db71904c54%7C81810bc45d684 5f6ba4e3d6c9fb37e43%7C0%7C0%7C638228637197215157%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb 3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D% 7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=KxmEJw3EtKeBBjUK1hl06JieOFeLnEJXAYuMb4CiIvc%3D&r eserved=0
There are very few responses already regarding the NomCom rebalancing topic.
On the other hand, some of you approached me to be allowed to contribute to the response and here I am sharing the Google Doc:
https://docs/ .google.com%2Fdocument%2Fd%2F1OeX5vRNKkgOME5IWbTeAPxffdMhednPE%2Fedit& data=05%7C01%7Cjordan.carter%40auda.org.au%7C2acd2577d3e6469967e008db7 1904c54%7C81810bc45d6845f6ba4e3d6c9fb37e43%7C0%7C0%7C63822863719721515 7%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6 Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=vtYA7k0iEgcM4D3xdfL0KSFvM k8cEINFpbNSdoHzI8A%3D&reserved=0
Please add your comments and suggestions by the 22 June. Afterwards the Ad Hoc team will clean it up and circulate a final version for approval on the 26 June.
Best regards,
Alejandra
******************************************* Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. Sing like nobody's listening. And live like it's Heaven on Earth. *******************************************
On Thu, Jun 15, 2023 at 9:21 PM Nick Wenban-Smith via Ccnso-council <ccnso-council@icann.org> wrote:
It’s hard to see another way to do it.
Does anyone have any insights as to how other participants (such as the GNSO and ALAC) are looking at this? Might be a good idea to coordinate responses, just a thought.
*From:* Ccnso-council <ccnso-council-bounces@icann.org> *On Behalf Of *Jordan Carter via Ccnso-council *Sent:* Thursday, June 15, 2023 7:37 PM *To:* ccnso-Council@icann.org *Subject:* [ccnso-council] on the NomCom rebalancing
Hi all
This email is about the response to Tripti’s letter on the rebalancing of the NomCom.
The draft was on our list recently and is downloadable here: https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/228788163/Item%2012%20-%20d...
<https://com/ munity.icann.org%2Fdownload%2Fattachments%2F228788163%2FItem%252012%25 20-%2520draft%2520Submission%2520Rebalancing%2520NomCom.pdf%3Fversion% 3D1%26modificationDate%3D1686841335000%26api%3Dv2&data=05%7C01%7Cjorda n.carter%40auda.org.au%7C2acd2577d3e6469967e008db71904c54%7C81810bc45d 6845f6ba4e3d6c9fb37e43%7C0%7C0%7C638228637197215157%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbG Zsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0% 3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=GBaQ81oFiXsV4VmaKV1ldBDt7kPTBC97pekGz0GYaks%3 D&reserved=0>
In specific reply to Question 4 almost at the end of the doc, the suggestion is that there be a Cross Community Working Group to do the work of developing a change to the NomCom’s balance, which will lead to bylaws changes.
I can’t think of a different way to do it.
* Clearly the Board coming up with a proposal and seeking public comment isn’t the right way. * The NomCom can’t propose changes to itself. * The SO/AC Chairs leadership forum does not have the mandate to propose specifics in such a potentially contentious area. * Getting some external consultant to do a review would just be an interesting input – we clearly can’t just say “ok” to something someone outside the community wrote for us.
Perhaps we could expand the point to say something like the following – shared as a rough draft to see what people think…
*4. How do you suggest that the NomCom’s composition be rebalanced?*
It is our view that, the rebalancing should be achieved through a cross-community group process, chartered by the community and Board which ultimately would result in suggestions for Bylaw changes.
We think work on this question, in whatever form is finally agreed, should start expeditiously since it will take some time to start and some time to do the work. We are prepared to participate in a chartering group in the near future. The goal should be that there is a process of some type proposed for discussion at ICANN78 in October.
_______
*Jordan Carter*
Internet Governance and Policy Director
jordan.carter@auda.org.au <mailto:jordan.carter@auda.org.au>
+61 417 243 647
https://secu/ re-web.cisco.com%2F1UqSlrfCb3SeneKhC7SQWPjkLgv62ociExMSdhFkhMRJXX2cCHm 4dWSSrN_4jx8M5xYMvLfjh1DbyI3tt2UWSeLuBJgM9kGoPvBuHDCiL3wwr6nNaFP41i1Ex Lm6-Y-5sLxmO-zpANJCAMzgTcim7Y7B17PUkZt8YV14QaKHO3MKc93Vs_XNiDYzQci9NRj B63_L5QJ0G3bXYdShPSgfkoxlNSaDgXfWbbA7LRsFu_n7OjnPSmU1Mbu8lcCfYVd8Ixs-V s4_FiMRlr-AisnJhd4UDPGlzvkRzO5BA1F7J1rE%2Fhttps%253A%252F%252Fassets.a uda.org.au%252Fa%252F2020-11%252FAsset%252B19.png&data=05%7C01%7Cjorda n.carter%40auda.org.au%7C2acd2577d3e6469967e008db71904c54%7C81810bc45d 6845f6ba4e3d6c9fb37e43%7C0%7C0%7C638228637197215157%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbG Zsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0% 3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=FzmGgrHww0lD79elakWffF6iSq8E84WSPFXHlp2wz9M%3 D&reserved=0
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Increasing the number of the Nom Comm makes no sense. Much better to decrease the representation of others. So, for example if each SO?AC nominated 3 people (and rotated the regions at the end of terms) then the NomComm would be a manageable size and regional diversity could be maintained. Cheers, CD Chris Disspain +44 7880 642456 Donuts and Afilias have rebranded to Identity Digital. identity.digital On 20 Jun 2023 at 16:52 +0100, Jordan Carter via Ccnso-council <ccnso-council@icann.org>, wrote:
Hi all
I think I share Irina's concern. In my view, the NomCom is already too big. It would be easier (but still controversial) to make it bigger by adding more ccNSO reps. But that might make the group entirely dysfunctional.
Shouldn't we take care to make sure the system can work well, as well as redressing the share of power to more realistically reflect the importance of the ccNSO?
Cheers Jordan
-----Original Message----- From: Ccnso-council <ccnso-council-bounces@icann.org> On Behalf Of Demi Getschko via Ccnso-council Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2023 11:14 PM To: ccnso-council@icann.org Subject: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [ccnso-council] on the NomCom rebalancing
Pablo + 1 here!
This is an old issue, never resolved. We are severely underrepresented in NomCom... best!
demi
On 19/06/2023 21:40, Pablo Rodriguez via Ccnso-council wrote:
Dear All: I agree with Stephen's remark, no SO or AC will give up seats at the table to increase ccNSO's participation. Consequently, it seems to me the logical path is to increase our number to 5 members (1 per region). I would agree to less than five if those that currently have five members cut down their membership to an equal number as the ccNSO. Regards,
On Mon, Jun 19, 2023 at 12:09 PM Stephen Deerhake @ ASNIC via Ccnso-council <ccnso-council@icann.org> wrote:
Hi,
Further Jordan and Nick’s remarks, I personally do not see how we can achieve a rebalancing effort in any of our lifetimes without an approach that does not involve expansion of the NomCom membership.
I just do not see the other SO/AC’s giving up some seats at the table to the ccNSO. So I think, to use an American expression regarding our Supreme court, we need to “ack the NomCom.”
Best Regards,
Stephen
*From: *Ccnso-council <ccnso-council-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Alejandra Reynoso Barral via Ccnso-council <ccnso-council@icann.org> *Reply-To: *Alejandra Reynoso Barral <alejandra.reynoso@gmail.com> *Date: *Monday, June 19, 2023 at 08:29 *To: *Nick Wenban-Smith <Nick.Wenban-Smith@nominet.uk> *Cc: *"ccnso-Council@icann.org" <ccnso-council@icann.org> *Subject: *Re: [ccnso-council] on the NomCom rebalancing
Dear All
We had a great ICANN meeting and I hope everyone arrived safely back home.
Nick, so far we don't have any input on what other SOs/ACs are going to respond. During one of the Chairs monthly calls it was brought to the table and it seemed that we didn't need coordination. If we feel it would be best to share views before the formal response I can always reach out to them and seek input.
Here is the ICANN Correspondence:
https://www/. icann.org%2Fresources%2Fpages%2Fcorrespondence&data=05%7C01%7Cjordan.c arter%40auda.org.au%7C2acd2577d3e6469967e008db71904c54%7C81810bc45d684 5f6ba4e3d6c9fb37e43%7C0%7C0%7C638228637197215157%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb 3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D% 7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=KxmEJw3EtKeBBjUK1hl06JieOFeLnEJXAYuMb4CiIvc%3D&r eserved=0
There are very few responses already regarding the NomCom rebalancing topic.
On the other hand, some of you approached me to be allowed to contribute to the response and here I am sharing the Google Doc:
https://docs/ .google.com%2Fdocument%2Fd%2F1OeX5vRNKkgOME5IWbTeAPxffdMhednPE%2Fedit& data=05%7C01%7Cjordan.carter%40auda.org.au%7C2acd2577d3e6469967e008db7 1904c54%7C81810bc45d6845f6ba4e3d6c9fb37e43%7C0%7C0%7C63822863719721515 7%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6 Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=vtYA7k0iEgcM4D3xdfL0KSFvM k8cEINFpbNSdoHzI8A%3D&reserved=0
Please add your comments and suggestions by the 22 June. Afterwards the Ad Hoc team will clean it up and circulate a final version for approval on the 26 June.
Best regards,
Alejandra
******************************************* Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. Sing like nobody's listening. And live like it's Heaven on Earth. *******************************************
On Thu, Jun 15, 2023 at 9:21 PM Nick Wenban-Smith via Ccnso-council <ccnso-council@icann.org> wrote:
It’s hard to see another way to do it.
Does anyone have any insights as to how other participants (such as the GNSO and ALAC) are looking at this? Might be a good idea to coordinate responses, just a thought.
*From:* Ccnso-council <ccnso-council-bounces@icann.org> *On Behalf Of *Jordan Carter via Ccnso-council *Sent:* Thursday, June 15, 2023 7:37 PM *To:* ccnso-Council@icann.org *Subject:* [ccnso-council] on the NomCom rebalancing
Hi all
This email is about the response to Tripti’s letter on the rebalancing of the NomCom.
The draft was on our list recently and is downloadable here: https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/228788163/Item%2012%20-%20d...
<https://com/ munity.icann.org%2Fdownload%2Fattachments%2F228788163%2FItem%252012%25 20-%2520draft%2520Submission%2520Rebalancing%2520NomCom.pdf%3Fversion% 3D1%26modificationDate%3D1686841335000%26api%3Dv2&data=05%7C01%7Cjorda n.carter%40auda.org.au%7C2acd2577d3e6469967e008db71904c54%7C81810bc45d 6845f6ba4e3d6c9fb37e43%7C0%7C0%7C638228637197215157%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbG Zsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0% 3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=GBaQ81oFiXsV4VmaKV1ldBDt7kPTBC97pekGz0GYaks%3 D&reserved=0>
In specific reply to Question 4 almost at the end of the doc, the suggestion is that there be a Cross Community Working Group to do the work of developing a change to the NomCom’s balance, which will lead to bylaws changes.
I can’t think of a different way to do it.
* Clearly the Board coming up with a proposal and seeking public comment isn’t the right way. * The NomCom can’t propose changes to itself. * The SO/AC Chairs leadership forum does not have the mandate to propose specifics in such a potentially contentious area. * Getting some external consultant to do a review would just be an interesting input – we clearly can’t just say “ok” to something someone outside the community wrote for us.
Perhaps we could expand the point to say something like the following – shared as a rough draft to see what people think…
*4. How do you suggest that the NomCom’s composition be rebalanced?*
It is our view that, the rebalancing should be achieved through a cross-community group process, chartered by the community and Board which ultimately would result in suggestions for Bylaw changes.
We think work on this question, in whatever form is finally agreed, should start expeditiously since it will take some time to start and some time to do the work. We are prepared to participate in a chartering group in the near future. The goal should be that there is a process of some type proposed for discussion at ICANN78 in October.
_______
*Jordan Carter*
Internet Governance and Policy Director
jordan.carter@auda.org.au <mailto:jordan.carter@auda.org.au>
+61 417 243 647
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Hi, I agree with Demi, and Pablo. This is an old and recurrent issue that is never solved, each SO and AC Should have the same amount of seats. Equal representation is relevant as the main role of nomcom is selecting HALF of the ICANN Board members, which is a fact that impacts all SO and AC. A number of 5 reps, one per region could be ok, but have in mind that today: 7 seats there are for GNSO 5 seats there are for ALAC, one per region rest SO and AC have one GAC does not appoint a representative in Nomcom for more than a decade.... see details here: https://www.icann.org/nomcom2023 Regards Olga El mar, 20 jun 2023 a las 9:14, Demi Getschko via Ccnso-council (< ccnso-council@icann.org>) escribió:
Pablo + 1 here!
This is an old issue, never resolved. We are severely underrepresented in NomCom... best!
demi
On 19/06/2023 21:40, Pablo Rodriguez via Ccnso-council wrote:
Dear All: I agree with Stephen's remark, no SO or AC will give up seats at the table to increase ccNSO's participation. Consequently, it seems to me the logical path is to increase our number to 5 members (1 per region). I would agree to less than five if those that currently have five members cut down their membership to an equal number as the ccNSO. Regards,
On Mon, Jun 19, 2023 at 12:09 PM Stephen Deerhake @ ASNIC via Ccnso-council <ccnso-council@icann.org> wrote:
Hi,
Further Jordan and Nick’s remarks, I personally do not see how we can achieve a rebalancing effort in any of our lifetimes without an approach that does not involve expansion of the NomCom membership.
I just do not see the other SO/AC’s giving up some seats at the table to the ccNSO. So I think, to use an American expression regarding our Supreme court, we need to “ack the NomCom.”
Best Regards,
Stephen
*From: *Ccnso-council <ccnso-council-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Alejandra Reynoso Barral via Ccnso-council <ccnso-council@icann.org> *Reply-To: *Alejandra Reynoso Barral <alejandra.reynoso@gmail.com> *Date: *Monday, June 19, 2023 at 08:29 *To: *Nick Wenban-Smith <Nick.Wenban-Smith@nominet.uk> *Cc: *"ccnso-Council@icann.org" <ccnso-council@icann.org> *Subject: *Re: [ccnso-council] on the NomCom rebalancing
Dear All
We had a great ICANN meeting and I hope everyone arrived safely back home.
Nick, so far we don't have any input on what other SOs/ACs are going to respond. During one of the Chairs monthly calls it was brought to the table and it seemed that we didn't need coordination. If we feel it would be best to share views before the formal response I can always reach out to them and seek input.
Here is the ICANN Correspondence: https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/correspondence
There are very few responses already regarding the NomCom rebalancing topic.
On the other hand, some of you approached me to be allowed to contribute to the response and here I am sharing the Google Doc:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OeX5vRNKkgOME5IWbTeAPxffdMhednPE/edit
Please add your comments and suggestions by the 22 June. Afterwards the Ad Hoc team will clean it up and circulate a final version for approval on the 26 June.
Best regards,
Alejandra
******************************************* Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. Sing like nobody's listening. And live like it's Heaven on Earth. *******************************************
On Thu, Jun 15, 2023 at 9:21 PM Nick Wenban-Smith via Ccnso-council <ccnso-council@icann.org> wrote:
It’s hard to see another way to do it.
Does anyone have any insights as to how other participants (such as the GNSO and ALAC) are looking at this? Might be a good idea to coordinate responses, just a thought.
*From:* Ccnso-council <ccnso-council-bounces@icann.org> *On Behalf Of *Jordan Carter via Ccnso-council *Sent:* Thursday, June 15, 2023 7:37 PM *To:* ccnso-Council@icann.org *Subject:* [ccnso-council] on the NomCom rebalancing
Hi all
This email is about the response to Tripti’s letter on the rebalancing of the NomCom.
The draft was on our list recently and is downloadable here:
https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/228788163/Item%2012%20-%20d...
<
https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/228788163/Item%2012%20-%20d...
In specific reply to Question 4 almost at the end of the doc, the suggestion is that there be a Cross Community Working Group to do the work of developing a change to the NomCom’s balance, which will lead to bylaws changes.
I can’t think of a different way to do it.
* Clearly the Board coming up with a proposal and seeking public comment isn’t the right way. * The NomCom can’t propose changes to itself. * The SO/AC Chairs leadership forum does not have the mandate to propose specifics in such a potentially contentious area. * Getting some external consultant to do a review would just be an interesting input – we clearly can’t just say “ok” to something someone outside the community wrote for us.
Perhaps we could expand the point to say something like the following – shared as a rough draft to see what people think…
*4. How do you suggest that the NomCom’s composition be rebalanced?*
It is our view that, the rebalancing should be achieved through a cross-community group process, chartered by the community and Board which ultimately would result in suggestions for Bylaw changes.
We think work on this question, in whatever form is finally agreed, should start expeditiously since it will take some time to start and some time to do the work. We are prepared to participate in a chartering group in the near future. The goal should be that there is a process of some type proposed for discussion at ICANN78 in October.
_______
*Jordan Carter*
Internet Governance and Policy Director
jordan.carter@auda.org.au <mailto:jordan.carter@auda.org.au>
+61 417 243 647
https://secure-web.cisco.com/1UqSlrfCb3SeneKhC7SQWPjkLgv62ociExMSdhFkhMRJXX2...
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*Important Notice* This email may contain information which is confidential and/or subject to legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or copy any part of this email. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately.
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_______________________________________________ Ccnso-council mailing list Ccnso-council@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccnso-council _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your
personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
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Greetings all. Upon further reflection (and I like the healthy discourse on this topic on the list btw)... First, let's look at the beast we call the NomCom (ICANN Bylaws, Article 8) that we are dealing with: Its composition is as follows (voting members): 1. ALAC 5 2. GNSO Business Constituency 2 1 representing small business users 1 representing large business users 3. GNSO Registry Constituency 1 4. GNSO Registrars Constituency 1 5. GNSO Intellectual Property Constituency 1 6. GNSO Non-cemeterial Users Constituency 1 7. ccNSO 1 8. Address Supporting Organization (ASO) 1 9. Board appointee representing academic interests 1 10. IETF 1 11. ICANN Technical Liaison Group 1 Total voting members 16 Plus the following non-voting members: 1. Non-voting Chair 1 2. Non-voting Associate Chair 1 3 .Non-voting Immediately previous Chair 1 4. Non-voting Liaison appointed by the RSSAC 1 5. Non-voting Liaison appointed by the SSAC 1 6. Non-voting Liaison appointed by the GAC 1 Total non-voting members 6 Grand total: 22 I do not recall what we were all smoking back in the day when we thought this was a brilliant idea, but in retrospect, we collectively created a monster... I assume that the heavy lift is provided by the voting members (Pablo, since you served penitence on the NomCom, please correct me if I misstate anything here going forward...), so breaking it all down by SO/AC votes, we have: GNSO 6 ALAC 5 ccNSO 1 ASO 1 Board appointee 1 IETF 1 ICANN 1 I believe it was Nick who brought up in this thread the point about Community burnout, and implicitly how it would be difficult to recruit Community members to fill the potential four new slot as initially proposed. I cannot agree with Nick more. We are all (at each individual level) somewhat burned out, as we are the 20% within the 80-20% maxim regarding community participation overall. Having thought about this further, I think we need to focus on keeping the number of active voting members as it is, at 16. Between the GNSO, ALAC, and the ccNSO, we have 12 votes. Historically, the ASO “just doesn’t give a damn” about anything ICANN related. I experienced this whilst holding the inaugural ccNSO Empowered Community Administration (ECA) seat on behalf of the ccNSO for several years after the transition. I also suspect that the IETF has a similar attitude as that of the ASO, but I am less certain about this. Note that ICANN has two votes already, so I think that is both stable and non-negotiable. We thus have 12 votes amongst the ALAC, the GNSO, and the ccNSO. The simplest solution of course is to simply allocate them on an equal basis, 4 each, but that may well prove tricky, as it will require a one vote reduction from ALAC, and a two vote reduction from the GNSO. Could we peel away the ASO and IETF seats? I have no idea; If they do not actually participate, then perhaps. I defer to Pablo for some insight on their past participation. If we could, I’d be happy with going from one seat to three at the selection table. Otherwise, I really do not see a way forward other than years of grid-lock on this issue at the Community level. It may well end up being something that the Board, after considerable (and likely contentious) Community input, proposes a solution for this mess, which would be subject to an Empowered Community rejection action (the text of Article 8 is not considered a “Fundamental” Bylaw, as proscribed in Article 25.2 of the ICANN Bylaws), which will most likely fail, which will let the Board’s proposal prevail. This is my (somewhat, and perhaps deranged) thinking on this matter at this point.. Best Regards, Stephen From: Ccnso-council <ccnso-council-bounces@icann.org> On Behalf Of Javier Rua via Ccnso-council Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2023 6:31 PM To: Olga Cavalli <olgacavalli@gmail.com> Cc: ccnso-council@icann.org Subject: Re: [ccnso-council] on the NomCom rebalancing +1 Hard for me to understand such a huge disbalance Javier Rúa-Jovet +1-787-396-6511 twitter: @javrua skype: javier.rua1 https://www.linkedin.com/in/javrua On Jun 20, 2023, at 5:26 PM, Olga Cavalli via Ccnso-council <ccnso-council@icann.org<mailto:ccnso-council@icann.org>> wrote: Hi, I agree with Demi, and Pablo. This is an old and recurrent issue that is never solved, each SO and AC Should have the same amount of seats. Equal representation is relevant as the main role of nomcom is selecting HALF of the ICANN Board members, which is a fact that impacts all SO and AC. A number of 5 reps, one per region could be ok, but have in mind that today: 7 seats there are for GNSO 5 seats there are for ALAC, one per region rest SO and AC have one GAC does not appoint a representative in Nomcom for more than a decade.... see details here: https://www.icann.org/nomcom2023 Regards Olga El mar, 20 jun 2023 a las 9:14, Demi Getschko via Ccnso-council (<ccnso-council@icann.org<mailto:ccnso-council@icann.org>>) escribió: Pablo + 1 here! This is an old issue, never resolved. We are severely underrepresented in NomCom... best! demi On 19/06/2023 21:40, Pablo Rodriguez via Ccnso-council wrote:
Dear All: I agree with Stephen's remark, no SO or AC will give up seats at the table to increase ccNSO's participation. Consequently, it seems to me the logical path is to increase our number to 5 members (1 per region). I would agree to less than five if those that currently have five members cut down their membership to an equal number as the ccNSO. Regards,
On Mon, Jun 19, 2023 at 12:09 PM Stephen Deerhake @ ASNIC via Ccnso-council <ccnso-council@icann.org<mailto:ccnso-council@icann.org>> wrote:
Hi,
Further Jordan and Nick’s remarks, I personally do not see how we can achieve a rebalancing effort in any of our lifetimes without an approach that does not involve expansion of the NomCom membership.
I just do not see the other SO/AC’s giving up some seats at the table to the ccNSO. So I think, to use an American expression regarding our Supreme court, we need to “ack the NomCom.”
Best Regards,
Stephen
*From: *Ccnso-council <ccnso-council-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ccnso-council-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Alejandra Reynoso Barral via Ccnso-council <ccnso-council@icann.org<mailto:ccnso-council@icann.org>> *Reply-To: *Alejandra Reynoso Barral <alejandra.reynoso@gmail.com<mailto:alejandra.reynoso@gmail.com>> *Date: *Monday, June 19, 2023 at 08:29 *To: *Nick Wenban-Smith <Nick.Wenban-Smith@nominet.uk<mailto:Nick.Wenban-Smith@nominet.uk>> *Cc: *"ccnso-Council@icann.org<mailto:ccnso-Council@icann.org>" <ccnso-council@icann.org<mailto:ccnso-council@icann.org>> *Subject: *Re: [ccnso-council] on the NomCom rebalancing
Dear All
We had a great ICANN meeting and I hope everyone arrived safely back home.
Nick, so far we don't have any input on what other SOs/ACs are going to respond. During one of the Chairs monthly calls it was brought to the table and it seemed that we didn't need coordination. If we feel it would be best to share views before the formal response I can always reach out to them and seek input.
Here is the ICANN Correspondence: https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/correspondence
There are very few responses already regarding the NomCom rebalancing topic.
On the other hand, some of you approached me to be allowed to contribute to the response and here I am sharing the Google Doc:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OeX5vRNKkgOME5IWbTeAPxffdMhednPE/edit
Please add your comments and suggestions by the 22 June. Afterwards the Ad Hoc team will clean it up and circulate a final version for approval on the 26 June.
Best regards,
Alejandra
******************************************* Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. Sing like nobody's listening. And live like it's Heaven on Earth. *******************************************
On Thu, Jun 15, 2023 at 9:21 PM Nick Wenban-Smith via Ccnso-council <ccnso-council@icann.org<mailto:ccnso-council@icann.org>> wrote:
It’s hard to see another way to do it.
Does anyone have any insights as to how other participants (such as the GNSO and ALAC) are looking at this? Might be a good idea to coordinate responses, just a thought.
*From:* Ccnso-council <ccnso-council-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ccnso-council-bounces@icann.org>> *On Behalf Of *Jordan Carter via Ccnso-council *Sent:* Thursday, June 15, 2023 7:37 PM *To:* ccnso-Council@icann.org<mailto:ccnso-Council@icann.org> *Subject:* [ccnso-council] on the NomCom rebalancing
Hi all
This email is about the response to Tripti’s letter on the rebalancing of the NomCom.
The draft was on our list recently and is downloadable here: https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/228788163/Item%2012%20-%20d... <https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/228788163/Item%2012%20-%20d...>
In specific reply to Question 4 almost at the end of the doc, the suggestion is that there be a Cross Community Working Group to do the work of developing a change to the NomCom’s balance, which will lead to bylaws changes.
I can’t think of a different way to do it.
* Clearly the Board coming up with a proposal and seeking public comment isn’t the right way. * The NomCom can’t propose changes to itself. * The SO/AC Chairs leadership forum does not have the mandate to propose specifics in such a potentially contentious area. * Getting some external consultant to do a review would just be an interesting input – we clearly can’t just say “ok” to something someone outside the community wrote for us.
Perhaps we could expand the point to say something like the following – shared as a rough draft to see what people think…
*4. How do you suggest that the NomCom’s composition be rebalanced?*
It is our view that, the rebalancing should be achieved through a cross-community group process, chartered by the community and Board which ultimately would result in suggestions for Bylaw changes.
We think work on this question, in whatever form is finally agreed, should start expeditiously since it will take some time to start and some time to do the work. We are prepared to participate in a chartering group in the near future. The goal should be that there is a process of some type proposed for discussion at ICANN78 in October.
_______
*Jordan Carter*
Internet Governance and Policy Director
jordan.carter@auda.org.au<mailto:jordan.carter@auda.org.au> <mailto:jordan.carter@auda.org.au<mailto:jordan.carter@auda.org.au>>
+61 417 243 647
https://secure-web.cisco.com/1UqSlrfCb3SeneKhC7SQWPjkLgv62ociExMSdhFkhMRJXX2...
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Dear All Thank you for the discussion. These are all good points to bring to the table when a process to rebalance the NomCom is defined and running. In the meantime, please do have a look at the current response draft circulated to the mailing list and let me know if you agree with it or if anything should be modified. Best regards, Alejandra ******************************************* Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. Sing like nobody's listening. And live like it's Heaven on Earth. ******************************************* On Wed, Jun 21, 2023 at 1:46 PM Javier Rua via Ccnso-council < ccnso-council@icann.org> wrote:
Great data points @Stephen. Agree with your thinking.
- The extremely low representation of ccNSO (or GNSO & ALAC overrepresentation depending on perspective) in NomCom is IMHO simply unjustifiable. I cannot understand how it has held up for so long. I would strongly support action on this balancing front.
Javier Rúa-Jovet
+1-787-396-6511 twitter: @javrua skype: javier.rua1 https://www.linkedin.com/in/javrua
On Jun 21, 2023, at 1:42 AM, Stephen Deerhake @ ASNIC <sdeerhake@nic.as> wrote:
Greetings all.
Upon further reflection (and I like the healthy discourse on this topic on the list btw)...
First, let's look at the beast we call the NomCom (ICANN Bylaws, Article 8) that we are dealing with:
Its composition is as follows (voting members):
1. ALAC 5
2. GNSO Business Constituency 2
1 representing small business users
1 representing large business users
3. GNSO Registry Constituency 1
4. GNSO Registrars Constituency 1
5. GNSO Intellectual Property Constituency 1
6. GNSO Non-cemeterial Users Constituency 1
7. ccNSO 1
8. Address Supporting Organization (ASO) 1
9. Board appointee representing academic interests 1
10. IETF 1
11. ICANN Technical Liaison Group 1
Total voting members 16
Plus the following non-voting members:
1. Non-voting Chair 1
2. Non-voting Associate Chair 1
3 .Non-voting Immediately previous Chair 1
4. Non-voting Liaison appointed by the RSSAC 1
5. Non-voting Liaison appointed by the SSAC 1
6. Non-voting Liaison appointed by the GAC 1
Total non-voting members 6
Grand total: 22
I do not recall what we were all smoking back in the day when we thought this was a brilliant idea, but in retrospect, we collectively created a monster...
I assume that the heavy lift is provided by the voting members (Pablo, since you served penitence on the NomCom, please correct me if I misstate anything here going forward...), so breaking it all down by SO/AC votes, we have:
GNSO 6
ALAC 5
ccNSO 1
ASO 1
Board appointee 1
IETF 1
ICANN 1
I believe it was Nick who brought up in this thread the point about Community burnout, and implicitly how it would be difficult to recruit Community members to fill the potential four new slot as initially proposed.
I cannot agree with Nick more. We are all (at each individual level) somewhat burned out, as we are the 20% within the 80-20% maxim regarding community participation overall.
Having thought about this further, I think we need to focus on keeping the number of active voting members as it is, at 16.
Between the GNSO, ALAC, and the ccNSO, we have 12 votes.
Historically, the ASO “just doesn’t give a damn” about anything ICANN related. I experienced this whilst holding the inaugural ccNSO Empowered Community Administration (ECA) seat on behalf of the ccNSO for several years after the transition.
I also suspect that the IETF has a similar attitude as that of the ASO, but I am less certain about this.
Note that ICANN has two votes already, so I think that is both stable and non-negotiable.
We thus have 12 votes amongst the ALAC, the GNSO, and the ccNSO. The simplest solution of course is to simply allocate them on an equal basis, 4 each, but that may well prove tricky, as it will require a one vote reduction from ALAC, and a two vote reduction from the GNSO.
Could we peel away the ASO and IETF seats? I have no idea; If they do not actually participate, then perhaps. I defer to Pablo for some insight on their past participation. If we could, I’d be happy with going from one seat to three at the selection table.
Otherwise, I really do not see a way forward other than years of grid-lock on this issue at the Community level.
It may well end up being something that the Board, after considerable (and likely contentious) Community input, proposes a solution for this mess, which would be subject to an Empowered Community rejection action (the text of Article 8 is not considered a “Fundamental” Bylaw, as proscribed in Article 25.2 of the ICANN Bylaws), which will most likely fail, which will let the Board’s proposal prevail.
This is my (somewhat, and perhaps deranged) thinking on this matter at this point..
Best Regards,
Stephen
*From:* Ccnso-council <ccnso-council-bounces@icann.org> *On Behalf Of *Javier Rua via Ccnso-council *Sent:* Tuesday, June 20, 2023 6:31 PM *To:* Olga Cavalli <olgacavalli@gmail.com> *Cc:* ccnso-council@icann.org *Subject:* Re: [ccnso-council] on the NomCom rebalancing
+1
Hard for me to understand such a huge disbalance
Javier Rúa-Jovet
+1-787-396-6511
twitter: @javrua
skype: javier.rua1
https://www.linkedin.com/in/javrua
On Jun 20, 2023, at 5:26 PM, Olga Cavalli via Ccnso-council < ccnso-council@icann.org> wrote:
Hi,
I agree with Demi, and Pablo. This is an old and recurrent issue that is never solved, each SO and AC Should have the same amount of seats.
Equal representation is relevant as the main role of nomcom is selecting HALF of the ICANN Board members, which is a fact that impacts all SO and AC.
A number of 5 reps, one per region could be ok, but have in mind that today:
7 seats there are for GNSO
5 seats there are for ALAC, one per region
rest SO and AC have one
GAC does not appoint a representative in Nomcom for more than a decade....
see details here:
https://www.icann.org/nomcom2023
Regards
Olga
El mar, 20 jun 2023 a las 9:14, Demi Getschko via Ccnso-council (< ccnso-council@icann.org>) escribió:
Pablo + 1 here!
This is an old issue, never resolved. We are severely underrepresented in NomCom... best!
demi
On 19/06/2023 21:40, Pablo Rodriguez via Ccnso-council wrote:
Dear All: I agree with Stephen's remark, no SO or AC will give up seats at the table to increase ccNSO's participation. Consequently, it seems to me the logical path is to increase our number to 5 members (1 per region). I would agree to less than five if those that currently have five members cut down their membership to an equal number as the ccNSO. Regards,
On Mon, Jun 19, 2023 at 12:09 PM Stephen Deerhake @ ASNIC via Ccnso-council <ccnso-council@icann.org> wrote:
Hi,
Further Jordan and Nick’s remarks, I personally do not see how we can achieve a rebalancing effort in any of our lifetimes without an approach that does not involve expansion of the NomCom membership.
I just do not see the other SO/AC’s giving up some seats at the table to the ccNSO. So I think, to use an American expression regarding our Supreme court, we need to “ack the NomCom.”
Best Regards,
Stephen
*From: *Ccnso-council <ccnso-council-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Alejandra Reynoso Barral via Ccnso-council <ccnso-council@icann.org> *Reply-To: *Alejandra Reynoso Barral <alejandra.reynoso@gmail.com> *Date: *Monday, June 19, 2023 at 08:29 *To: *Nick Wenban-Smith <Nick.Wenban-Smith@nominet.uk> *Cc: *"ccnso-Council@icann.org" <ccnso-council@icann.org> *Subject: *Re: [ccnso-council] on the NomCom rebalancing
Dear All
We had a great ICANN meeting and I hope everyone arrived safely back home.
Nick, so far we don't have any input on what other SOs/ACs are going to respond. During one of the Chairs monthly calls it was brought to the table and it seemed that we didn't need coordination. If we feel it would be best to share views before the formal response I can always reach out to them and seek input.
Here is the ICANN Correspondence: https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/correspondence
There are very few responses already regarding the NomCom rebalancing topic.
On the other hand, some of you approached me to be allowed to contribute to the response and here I am sharing the Google Doc:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OeX5vRNKkgOME5IWbTeAPxffdMhednPE/edit
Please add your comments and suggestions by the 22 June. Afterwards the Ad Hoc team will clean it up and circulate a final version for approval on the 26 June.
Best regards,
Alejandra
******************************************* Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. Sing like nobody's listening. And live like it's Heaven on Earth. *******************************************
On Thu, Jun 15, 2023 at 9:21 PM Nick Wenban-Smith via Ccnso-council <ccnso-council@icann.org> wrote:
It’s hard to see another way to do it.
Does anyone have any insights as to how other participants (such as the GNSO and ALAC) are looking at this? Might be a good idea to coordinate responses, just a thought.
*From:* Ccnso-council <ccnso-council-bounces@icann.org> *On Behalf Of *Jordan Carter via Ccnso-council *Sent:* Thursday, June 15, 2023 7:37 PM *To:* ccnso-Council@icann.org *Subject:* [ccnso-council] on the NomCom rebalancing
Hi all
This email is about the response to Tripti’s letter on the rebalancing of the NomCom.
The draft was on our list recently and is downloadable here:
https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/228788163/Item%2012%20-%20d...
<
https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/228788163/Item%2012%20-%20d...
In specific reply to Question 4 almost at the end of the doc, the suggestion is that there be a Cross Community Working Group to do the work of developing a change to the NomCom’s balance, which will lead to bylaws changes.
I can’t think of a different way to do it.
* Clearly the Board coming up with a proposal and seeking public comment isn’t the right way. * The NomCom can’t propose changes to itself. * The SO/AC Chairs leadership forum does not have the mandate to propose specifics in such a potentially contentious area. * Getting some external consultant to do a review would just be an interesting input – we clearly can’t just say “ok” to something someone outside the community wrote for us.
Perhaps we could expand the point to say something like the following – shared as a rough draft to see what people think…
*4. How do you suggest that the NomCom’s composition be rebalanced?*
It is our view that, the rebalancing should be achieved through a cross-community group process, chartered by the community and Board which ultimately would result in suggestions for Bylaw changes.
We think work on this question, in whatever form is finally agreed, should start expeditiously since it will take some time to start and some time to do the work. We are prepared to participate in a chartering group in the near future. The goal should be that there is a process of some type proposed for discussion at ICANN78 in October.
_______
*Jordan Carter*
Internet Governance and Policy Director
jordan.carter@auda.org.au <mailto:jordan.carter@auda.org.au>
+61 417 243 647
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participants (10)
-
Alejandra Reynoso Barral -
Chris Disspain -
Demi Getschko -
Javier Rua -
Jordan Carter -
Nick Wenban-Smith -
Olga Cavalli -
Pablo Rodriguez -
Sean Copeland -
Stephen Deerhake ＠ ASNIC