- Gnso-igo-ingo-crp - lists.icann.org

MP3, Attendance & AC Chat for IGO-INGO CRP PDP WG call on Thursday, 15 June 2017
by Terri Agnew June 15, 2017

June 15, 2017

Dear All, Please find the attendance and MP3 recording along with the AC recording and chat below for the IGO-INGO Curative Rights Protection PDP WG Meeting held on Thursday, 15 June 2017 at 16:00 UTC. Mp3: https://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-igo-ingo-crp-access-15jun17-en.mp3 AC Recording: <https://participate.icann.org/p4vgo7ydly3/?OWASP_CSRFTOKEN=fe4916c8d08a1d57 b6033c272f8baf21b82328e1f63d18ee81e3277664cd772f> https://participate.icann.org/p4vgo7ydly3/ The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page: <https://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar> https://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar Attendees: George Kirikos Petter Rindforth Paul Tattersfield David Maher Phil Corwin Jay Chapman Paul Keating Apologies: Mason Cole ICANN staff: Mary Wong Steve Chan Berry Cobb Dennis Chang Terri Agnew ** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list ** Mailing list archives: <http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-igo-ingo-crp/> http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-igo-ingo-crp/ Wiki Agenda page: <https://community.icann.org/x/SEfwAw> https://community.icann.org/x/SEfwAw Thank you. Kind regards, Terri ------------------------------- Adobe Connect chat transcript for Thursday, 15 June 2017 Terri Agnew:Welcome to the IGO-INGO Access to Curative Rights Protection Mechanisms Working Group call on Thursday, 15 June 2017 at 16:00 UTC for 90 minutes Terri Agnew:agenda wiki page: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_S EfwAw <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_ SEfwAw&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpC IgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=94kudPvxsE4Kv6BchTlNVXy_Uhf4K5cGOJwfk32lb- A&s=tWz0YM622-NQssQii9SogtfAHC5py1wAc2SrUPdpivk&e> &d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXh FzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=94kudPvxsE4Kv6BchTlNVXy_Uhf4K5cGOJwfk32lb-A&s=tW z0YM622-NQssQii9SogtfAHC5py1wAc2SrUPdpivk&e= George Kirikos:Hi folks. Petter Rindforth:Hi there! Paul Tattersfield:Hi Philip Corwin:Hello all Terri Agnew:Welcome Paul Keating Paul Keating:Hello all. George Kirikos:Can we get the documents in PDF format, by the way? (as I noted on the list) The spreadsheet in particular is causing me problems. Berry Cobb:@George - I will do the XLS in PDF after the call. It will take me time to size each sheet so that it will print in PDF in a useful way. Some tabs have over 3000+ rows. Apologies for not thinking of it prior to the call. Paul Tattersfield:I think the spreadsheet will require a lot of reformating to get in a pdf format because of the quantity of data Mary Wong:The impact analysis document has also been posted to the WG wiki space as a PDF: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_S EfwAw <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_ SEfwAw&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpC IgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=94kudPvxsE4Kv6BchTlNVXy_Uhf4K5cGOJwfk32lb- A&s=tWz0YM622-NQssQii9SogtfAHC5py1wAc2SrUPdpivk&e> &d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXh FzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=94kudPvxsE4Kv6BchTlNVXy_Uhf4K5cGOJwfk32lb-A&s=tW z0YM622-NQssQii9SogtfAHC5py1wAc2SrUPdpivk&e= Mary Wong:@Paul T, yes Mary Wong:@Steve, thank you - nothing from me George Kirikos:Or, save the spreadsheet in Open Office or Google Docs formats, instead, if Excel will export to those. George Kirikos:Since, Excel format is causing various problems. Berry Cobb:@George, I will try that as well. George Kirikos:(e.g. Intro Tab is completely blank for me in one piece of software, normal in other) Paul Tattersfield:the raw data is very useful. If you have the correct software it is far easier to analyse it in a spreadsheet format rather than a pdf George Kirikos:2nd setennce is now answered by "yes", since the lawsuit is over at that point, so they can transfer. Berry Cobb:I'd just add to this document (not including George's comments) is really just meant as a starter draft to spur deliberations on the advantages/disadvantages. The content statements are very much in raw form, and it is up to the WG to decide whether they are useful or should be amended. George Kirikos:Mute? Paul Keating:To Clarify: the court's order must be to dismiss as a result of teh NGO's motion or defense asserting immunity. George Kirikos:3 years, yes. Mary Wong:@Paul, to the extent that the vitiation is contingent on a court's substantive ruling (rather than just a ruling that an IGO has immunity), that will probably need to be clarified and added to the Final Report. Paul Keating:@PHIL, Option 1 changes the UDRP. We must insert the vitiation language.. Otherwise, the Respondent would lose the domain based upon the post-UDRP dismissal based on immunity. Paul Keating:@Mary, I agree completely. The vitiation must be limited to a dismissal based upon immunity. George Kirikos:@Paul: it doesn't change the UDRP. It negates the UDRP --- it's an instruction to the registrars, that they are to ignore the UDRP ruling. Mary Wong:@George, that is why the staff is raising the concern we did - how is that dealt with legally? George Kirikos:It's like saying a registrar is free to ignore a court action, if it's not brought in a competent forum. George Kirikos:e.g. someone sues me in Iran, which has no jurisdiction over a matter. Tucows is free to ignore anything coming from an Iranian court. Paul Keating:Easy. Domain is transferred based on the UDRP. Paul Keating:THis is the same that would occur if the case were dismissed for any reason. Philip Corwin:I greatly respect Paul's opinion on UDRP matters, and his response is consistent with that of other UDRP panelists and litigating attorneys that I have discussed this with. George Kirikos:IGOs are trying to have it both ways, then, that they're concerned about "Mutual Jurisdiction" being a waiver, and then arguing that it's not a waiver. Option 1 helps clarify that. George Kirikos:Option 1 is consistent with the 'grand bargain' that created the UDRP, that it was not intended to create any new rights that were superior to those from the courts. Mary Wong:@Paul, agree - that's why we are raising the issue. As things stand, the fate of the panel decision lies with the court - there is no rule about vitiation. Philip Corwin:Concur that Option 1 would require some change in the UDRP -- as would Option 2. They are equivalent in that respect. Paul Keating:@Peter - would the UDRP be handled by WIPO :-) Philip Corwin:Does it matter which accredited UDRP provider handles the UDRP if the judicial appeal (or arbitration per Option 2) is a completely de novo procedure per the national law it was brought under? George Kirikos:Who is talking? Terri Agnew:Paul, we can hear you Philip Corwin:Whether WIPO should be permitted to handle a post-UDRP scenario under Option 2 is something we should discuss in another meeting when we discuss potential elements of an Option2 procedure. Terri Agnew:Paul Keating is speaking Paul Tattersfield:yes Philip Corwin:Prior post shoud have read "post-UDRP arbitration scenario" George Kirikos:Also, which remedies, etc (in law, transfer of the domain need not be the required remedy). George Kirikos:Trying to reinvent/copy the law --- that reinforces that the court of law is the ideal forum. George Kirikos:Since, any differences would be biased in favour of IGOs. i.e. basic game theory is that IGOs would only assert that immunity if they believe that it's a benefit to them. George Kirikos:Basic forum shopping. Mary Wong:@Paul, thanks for the topic suggestions - another we'd add is, what are the arbitration rules that would apply George Kirikos:"We're going to follow Canadian law, but with less qualified decision-makers" === bad Jay Chapman:A lot of work, Paul K, but I don't disagree George Kirikos:Option 3 = limit the scope of the immunity waiver. George Kirikos:Paul had proposed that years ago, but it hadn't been seriously considered by the group. Philip Corwin:@Paul--detailed discussion of key elements of a post-immunity arbitration can certainly consider waiver of monetray damages and other key issues Paul Keating:correct George Kirikos:What Paul was saying, though, was to KEEP IT IN THE COURTS, but limit what the court can consider (i.e. only consider the fate of the domain). George Kirikos:i.e. the "cause of action" that can be brought by a loser in a UDRP is only about the fate of the domain name, not $100,000 ACPA damages, or employment issues with an IGO, or fraud by the IGO, or other causes of action. George Kirikos:But, the IGO explicilty must waive immunity and agrees to the court's jurisdiction, but only to the extent that it concerns the fate of the domain. Paul Tattersfield:I think we need to remember the IGO's are looking to seize other people's property not defend their own property, limiting their liability runs the risk of frivolous UDRPs Jay Chapman:Hard to imagine any court granting a judgment against an IGO other than in a case of an abusive filing Paul Keating:@Paul - That is indeed a risk. You would end up with a RDNH finding, a post UDRP court action and a Post-UDRP judgment confirming posession to the Respondent. The only other "remedy" would be the sh aming factor. That is enough for me given teh limited number of UDRPs we are discussing here. Philip Corwin:So Option 3 would be to eliminate the possibility of arbitration but requite the domain registrant to waive any possibility of monetary damages? Does ICANN have authority to limit the scope of national laws? Paul Keating:@Phil We need to modify the UDRP and the RA. That is, however, the case with any of the options we are considering. George Kirikos:@Phil: it'd be saying that the scope of the UDRP waiver is only with respect to the domain name aspect. If someone wanted to raise the "damages" issue, the IGO could properly assert immunity, i.e. they would argue they *didn't* waive that issue for immunity. Jay Chapman:Paul, do you have an outlined version of "Option 3" you could share via the email list? George Kirikos:Likelihood = 3, Impact = 1 Paul Keating:@George, I think part of the bargain would be to eliminate the potential for a damage claim regardless of the NGO's poisition relative to immunity. Otherwise they will insist on the arbitration process. George Kirikos:(negligible damage) George Kirikos:They already successfully used licensee. Paul Keating:I have one somehwere. I had sent this out as an option earlier. I will try to dig up the email. Jay Chapman:Thx Paul Tattersfield:By agreeing to mutual jurisdiction they waive immunity George Kirikos:Option 1 says "court is supreme" --- entirely consistent with the premise that the UDRP was created not to supercede laws. Mary Wong:@Paul T, that is a fundamental challenge regarding Rec 4 as it stands (irrespective of whether Option 1 or 2, or some other option, is preferred) George Kirikos:Courts should be deciding which ones are IGOs. George Kirikos:An IGO that has no connection to Canada (no treaty rights, etc), e.g. some of these Asian or European or Caribbean or African IGOs would have no treaty rights in Canada or the USA. George Kirikos:If Canada/USA is not a member of the "Pacific Islands Forum", for example, their IGO has no special rights, even if they're on the GAC list. George Kirikos:Same for OPEC. Mary Wong:@George, if the Canadian govt signed on to a treaty or other instrument that grants national rights to an IGO, then that IGO would have rights within Canadian jurisdiction. Berry Cobb:To Phil's comment: Recall the NGPC's small group proposal with their version of an RPM did limit the scope to only the 192 orgs as pwer the 2013 GAC advice Paul Tattersfield:@Mary I'm also troubled with the concept of IGO's being entitled to immunity when they are looking to seize the assets of others for what ever reason. George Kirikos:@Mary: yes, if Canada was a member of OPEC, then their immunity might exist in Canada. Philip Corwin:@Berry--thanks for noting that -- although again I'm not sure it's the task of this WG to decide which IGOs are "real" George Kirikos:(OPEC might be a bad example, since the government might recognize them) Mary Wong:@Paul T, thing is, whether jurisdictional immunity exists in any one case is not dependent on any motive for going to court or pleading it. Berry Cobb:@Phil - that is perhaps correct. I'm just viewing it as a possible considerdation as it can likely reconcile to the GAC advice and in terms of an IGO's concern on MJ. George Kirikos:+1 Paul. Option 1 is more consistent with the UDRP. Says that the procedure is that the dispute should be decided by courts, not arbitrators. Mary Wong:@Paul K, yes Philip Corwin:Paul, your description is correct Mary Wong:And hence the point staff just brought up, about whether agreeing to MJ in the first place = waiver of immunity (such that it cannot be successfully pleaded after the fact) George Kirikos:@Mary: yes, the intent of the UDRP was that it was a mandatory waiver of jurisdiction. Option 1 simply clears up any loopholes, that IGOs raise doubts about. Mary Wong:@George, but if that is the case, then how can an IGO ever successfully plead immunity where it is deemed to have ALREADY waived it? Paul Tattersfield:@Mary I agree, I'm just concerned the working group is considering granting rights that should not be granted. I think I need to make the time to consider the principle(s) behind immunity again. George Kirikos:When there was a dispute in the PUPA.com case, I went to court immediately, before the UDRP case was decided. Paul Keating:@George, Excellent point. I had not thought of a pre-UDRP decision action by the respondent. That will be more difficult. George Kirikos:(and the UDRP panel decided it would defer to the courts) George Kirikos:(and terminated the UDRP) George Kirikos:Tucows and others have done the same. George Kirikos:Option 1 has fewer of these loopholes. George Kirikos:After the filing, though, but before the UDRP was decided (i.e. after the UDRP was filed, the IGO waives its immunity). George Kirikos:Before the UDRP is filed, there's not the explicit waver. Paul Tattersfield:@George before the UDRP is an offensive action rather than a defensive action that is what immunity is for to prevent offensive actions Mary Wong:@Phil, while we haven't looked at the matter in great detail, staff is inclined to agree with you in respect of ICANN's limited authority on pre-UDRP strategies and actions. George Kirikos:ICANN59 planning? Philip Corwin:Well, George's scenario was a post-UDRP filing but pre-UDRP decision defensive litigation one, just to be clear. IMHO we have zero authroity to opine on what a court does if litigation is filed before a UDRP is filed. Paul Tattersfield:The data was very good thank you Berry Cobb:@Petter - NP. I will work on other formats to present it to the WG. George Kirikos:Did the spreadsheet look at both "www.example.com <http://www.example.com> " and "example.com" URLs? I think some sites that don't resolve without the 'www' might resolve with the 'www' (common webmaster mistake). Paul Tattersfield:We should also look at discusing the raw data at ICANN59 because on first pass at least it shows very little if not zero need for any special IGO UDRP exceptions George Kirikos:The "raw acronym data" seems to imply that just the "apex name" was looked at (column F), not the "www" subdomain. Mary Wong:@Paul T, @Phil - thank you, yes - sorry I forgot to mention the data sampling which does seem useful to include in the ICANN59 discussion. George Kirikos:True, Paul. Very few cases of impersonation. George Kirikos:And it's unclear why law enforcement hasn't been involved for those cases, or registrar/registry abuse, webhosting providers, etc. George Kirikos:(I meant Column "E" earlier, not column F) Paul Tattersfield:There were a few redirects to offical sites but that doesn't really lead to any harm Mary Wong:We will work with Petter and Phil on the co-chairs' strawman for Option 2. Philip Corwin:Safe travel to all heading to Joburg George Kirikos:Data appears faulty. e.g. it says "acp.info" doesn't resolve. But, it resolves for me. Paul Tattersfield:thanks all bye Jay Chapman:thanks, all Paul Keating:goo night

1 0

FOR DISCUSSION: Updated documents on Options 1 & 2/Rec 4
by Mary Wong June 15, 2017

June 15, 2017

Dear all, Please find attached: (1) an updated Pros/Cons document regarding Options 1 & 2 for Preliminary Recommendation #4; and (2) an illustrative, limited sampling of data of domain registrations relating to the IGOs currently on the GAC’s 2013 list. As noted in the document, none of its contents nor the data sampling is meant to indicate a staff view on the topic under discussion; rather, we are providing these in the hope that they will facilitate the Working Group’s discussion. Please note also that under the GNSO’s rules of procedure, Working Groups are encouraged to perform an impact analysis as part of preparation of final recommendations – we therefore hope that these drafts are helpful in that regard as well. We will also post these to the Working Group wiki space shortly. Thanks and cheers Mary

4 4

REMINDER: Announcement: Pre-ICANN59 Policy Update Webinar Thursday, 15 June 2017 at 10:00 UTC and 19:00 UTC
by Terri Agnew June 12, 2017

June 12, 2017

https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2017-05-22-en Please RSVP via <https://goo.gl/forms/LTVbnZ8zXIBp5fFm1> this form by 13 June 2017. You will receive remote participation details the week of 12 June 2017. The ICANN Policy Development Support Team will host a Policy Update Webinar on Thursday, 15 June 2017 at 10:00 and 19:00 Coordinated Universal Time (UTC), in preparation for the upcoming ICANN59 Policy Forum in Johannesburg, South Africa. The purpose of the webinar is to summarize policy activities across the ICANN policy development community and to brief the community on the Empowered Community consultation and cross-community sessions taking place in Johannesburg. Briefings on the Empowered Community Consultation and Cross-Community Sessions: * Special session on the Proposed Fundamental Bylaws Amendments * Next-Generation Generic Top-Level Domain (gTLD) Registration Directory Services (RDS) policy requirements * General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) * Geographic names * Operational side of ICANN's Operating Plan and Budget * Who sets ICANN's priorities? Updates on Supporting Organizations and Advisory Committees: * Address Supporting Organization (ASO) and regional Internet registries (RIR) policy development * Country Code Names Supporting Organization (ccNSO) * Generic Names Supporting Organization (GNSO) * At-Large Advisory Committee (ALAC) and At-Large Community * Governmental Advisory Committee (GAC) * Root Server System Advisory Committee (RSSAC) * Security and Stability Advisory Committee (SSAC) The two sessions are duplicates, scheduled to accommodate different time zones. Each session runs in English for 90 minutes. The webinar will be conducted via Adobe Connect along with a dial-in conference bridge for audio. Participants will have the opportunity to ask questions at the end of each session. During the course of the webinar, participants may submit questions using the chat function in Adobe Connect. Recordings of the webinars will be made available <https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/presentations-2012-08-27-en> here. The Policy Development Support Team is always available to answer any questions via email at <mailto:policyinfo@icann.org> policyinfo(a)icann.org. Please RSVP via <https://goo.gl/forms/LTVbnZ8zXIBp5fFm1> this form by 13 June 2017. You will receive remote participation details the week of 12 June 2017. Ozan Sahin Community Engagement Support Coordinator Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) Direct Line: +90.212.999.6218 Mobile: +90.533.641.0007 Email: ozan.sahin(a)icann.org <mailto:ozan.sahin@icann.org> Skype: ozan.sahin.icann www.icann.org

1 0

Article on Forced Arbitration and Bias
by George Kirikos June 10, 2017

June 10, 2017

Hi folks, There was a timely article re: forced arbitration today that documents the biases inherent in such systems: https://politics.slashdot.org/story/17/06/09/0033255/att-uses-forced-arbitr… "Forced arbitration provisions in telecommunications contracts erode Americans' ability to seek justice in the courts by forcing them into a privatized system that is inherently biased in favor of providers and which offers virtually no way to challenge a biased outcome," This article speaks to the inherent flaws in the position of those advocating Option 2 in our discussions. Sincerely, George Kirikos 416-588-0269 http://www.leap.com/

2 2

MP3, Attendance & AC Chat for IGO-INGO CRP PDP WG call on Thursday, 08 June 2017
by Terri Agnew June 8, 2017

June 8, 2017

Dear All, Please find the attendance and MP3 recording along with the AC recording and chat below for the IGO-INGO Curative Rights Protection PDP WG Meeting held on Thursday, 08 June 2017 at 16:00 UTC. Mp3: https://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-igo-ingo-crp-access-08jun17-en.mp3 AC Recording: <https://participate.icann.org/p5mr9ivogrq/?OWASP_CSRFTOKEN=980ecc2001b7c56d b17d5aadc92897136cc52b6e4e095d668c49bb166b20dd87> https://participate.icann.org/p5mr9ivogrq/ The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page: <https://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar> https://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar Attendees: George Kirikos Petter Rindforth Mason Cole Paul Tattersfield David Maher Phil Corwin Osvaldo Novoa Nat Cohen Apologies: Jay Chapman ICANN staff: Mary Wong Steve Chan Berry Cobb Dennis Chang Terri Agnew ** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list ** Mailing list archives: <http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-igo-ingo-crp/> http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-igo-ingo-crp/ Wiki Agenda page: <https://community.icann.org/x/njbwAw> https://community.icann.org/x/njbwAw Thank you. Kind regards, Terri ------------------------------- Adobe Connect chat transcript for Thursday, 08 June 2017 Terri Agnew:Welcome to the IGO-INGO Access to Curative Rights Protection Mechanisms Working Group call on Thursday, 08 June 2017 at 16:00 UTC for 90 minutes Terri Agnew:agenda wiki page: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_n jbwAw <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_ njbwAw&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpC IgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=6mVdPjzVIZckSMOhJSVWWtazk8FKYoq1c43se8Fqgr U&s=Qa7PjOFu7h7HJz0e1PcJumAwWdsy5SYtYtSqh_YmMmc&e> &d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXh FzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=6mVdPjzVIZckSMOhJSVWWtazk8FKYoq1c43se8FqgrU&s=Qa 7PjOFu7h7HJz0e1PcJumAwWdsy5SYtYtSqh_YmMmc&e= George Kirikos:Hi folks. Paul Tattersfield:Hi everyone George Kirikos:Hi Paul. Osvaldo Novoa:Hello all. George Kirikos:Hi Osvaldo. George Kirikos:I think the agenda is to go over the pros/cons doc that went out today. George Kirikos:?? George Kirikos:i.e. alternative procedure Petter Rindforth:...and finally I reached by phone as well :-) George Kirikos:We've already identified cases in the Swaine report on UDRP cases brought by IGOs. George Kirikos:(Swaine repeated the cases we'd identified on the mailing list, etc.) George Kirikos:2 weeks ago (no call last week). Berry Cobb:@Phil - yes. It is now part of GNSO Op Procedures as part of DMPM recommendations. Impact analysis on proposed recommendations. Berry Cobb:Data & Metrics for Policy Making. A WG concluded in 2013. About data driven analysis in policy development. Mason Cole:Feedback on the line George Kirikos:Someone's slurping a drink? Mary Wong:sorry I'm having connectivity problems Paul Tattersfield:Steve what are you classing as "their domains"? George Kirikos:I understand the idea of a risk assessment. Just concerned about ICANN staff doing self-directed data collection/analysis, that hadn't gone through the working group members first. Mary Wong:the staff research is supposed to assist with the risk analysis the WG agreed to last week and that steve just clarified Berry Cobb:I'll defer to next week, please. I'm not dialed in. George Kirikos:Staff are here to support the working group, and shouldn't be doing independent/self-directed research, in my view. Paul Tattersfield:Is there a list of the 192? IGOs that the GAC wanted to "protect"? Mary Wong:paul, yes - it's the GAC list from 2013 that is out predecessor wg looked at and used too Paul Tattersfield:thanks Mary, has there been any updates to it? Mary Wong:paul, no Mary Wong:note that this is a staff draft meant to facilitate WG discussion and not intended as conclusory or any sort of staff view Paul Tattersfield:I think it's also worth noting he articles of the IGO's require them to settle disputes in an appropriate forum this doesn't necessarily ean only the forum that the IGO chooses. Paul Tattersfield:ean=mean George Kirikos:Same for country-code TLDs. Petter Rindforth:Again, a separate DRP seems to be an easy way in the first thought, but once anyone study all the details it seems more difficult to create and to work in a practical and acceptable way George Kirikos:+1 Petter. George Kirikos:US Govt was also concerned about "fake" IGOs. George Kirikos:Small group proposal was sloppy, confusing and/or in a few places, etc., i.e. not just "forum shopping", but legal test shopping. Paul Tattersfield:That's another list I think it would be helpful to see George George Kirikos:Indeed, Paul. Mason Cole:need to head to another call. see some of you in jo'burg. thanks Petter and Phil. Petter Rindforth:See you there! Mary Wong:on the down how negative in point 3, I think we could have phrased it better as a drp that is "based on something other than trademark rights" (instead of "not on trademark rights"). sorry for the confusion. George Kirikos:Option 2 is not best for the domain owner! Mary Wong: ** double (not down how) George Kirikos:Is anyone supporting a separate DRP? Perhaps a straw poll? George Kirikos:X to oppose? Petter Rindforth:George, I see your hands up ;-) Mary Wong:should we also take this question to the mailing list? Petter Rindforth:Yes George Kirikos:"Full consensus" George Kirikos::-) George Kirikos:Dennis = staff George Kirikos:So, that's everyone. George Kirikos:Subject to anyone on the mailing list objecting, though, as Mary suggested. George Kirikos:Add that as an Action Item, perhaps. George Kirikos:Ask if anyone objects to closing the "Separate DRP" topic. Mary Wong:will there be a meeting on 22 June? Terri Agnew:ICANN59 final schedule: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__icann59johannesburg2017 .sched.com_ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__icann59johannesburg201 7.sched.com_&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dX AvSFpCIgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=6mVdPjzVIZckSMOhJSVWWtazk8FKYoq1c43s e8FqgrU&s=_qz_J664p21UjYhPcO1clI7UZE6BC99x11tnlqehnq8&e> &d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXh FzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=6mVdPjzVIZckSMOhJSVWWtazk8FKYoq1c43se8FqgrU&s=_q z_J664p21UjYhPcO1clI7UZE6BC99x11tnlqehnq8&e= George Kirikos:So, will there be another GNSO council status update, meeting with IGOs, etc? Mary Wong:we can discuss the joburg agenda on next week's call perhaps Steve Chan:Thanks Terri, and here is the link to the specific meeting: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__sched.co_B49J <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__sched.co_B49J&d=DwIFaQ& c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfq a0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=6mVdPjzVIZckSMOhJSVWWtazk8FKYoq1c43se8FqgrU&s=v72o-APNeyoY oNM5Hmwubx7sab5arVySOPMMTS35qjw&e> &d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXh FzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=6mVdPjzVIZckSMOhJSVWWtazk8FKYoq1c43se8FqgrU&s=v7 2o-APNeyoYoNM5Hmwubx7sab5arVySOPMMTS35qjw&e= Terri Agnew:working group taking place Tuesday, 27 June 10:30-12:00 local time Steve Chan:FYI, Mary and I are both traveling the 22nd. George Kirikos:Ugh, that's in the middle of the night in North America. Terri Agnew:The next IGO-INGO Access to Curative Rights Protection Mechanisms Working Group call will take place on Thursday, 15 June 2017 at 16:00 UTC for 90 minutes Petter Rindforth:Ballroom 2... George Kirikos:4:30 am Toronto/NYC time. :-) George Kirikos:(6 hours difference) George Kirikos:Bye folks. Mary Wong:there will prob also be a chance for phil and petter to update the Council on Monday Paul Tattersfield:thanks Phil, all bye

1 0

Draft document for review: pros/cons of a separate dispute resolution process
by Mary Wong June 8, 2017

June 8, 2017

Dear all, Please find attached an initial draft of a pros/cons document relating to the possibility of a separate dispute resolution process for IGOs. Please note that the co-chairs have not yet fully reviewed the draft, so for now it remains a staff draft and subject to edits and comments from them and everyone. They have also requested that staff outline for the Working Group the rationale for further considering this option on the call later today. Thanks and cheers Mary

1 0

- Outstanding Action Items
by Steve Chan May 31, 2017

May 31, 2017

Dear WG Members, This message is to confirm a couple of action items that staff still needs to work on. Regarding the pros and cons around recommendation 4 and the 2 options, try and integrate an element of a risk analysis and/or data analysis to the existing document. Develop a pros and cons document related to a separate dispute resolution process With other commitments, staff has not yet been able to devote adequate time to these action items, but just wanted to let you all know that the work is in progress. Best, Steve Steven Chan  Sr. Policy Manager   ICANN 12025 Waterfront Drive, Suite 300 Los Angeles, CA 90094-2536  steve.chan(a)icann.org mobile: +1.310.339.4410 office tel: +1.310.301.5800 office fax: +1.310.823.8649 Find out more about the GNSO by taking our interactive courses and visiting the GNSO Newcomer pages. Follow @GNSO on Twitter: https://twitter.com/ICANN_GNSO Follow the GNSO on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/icanngnso/ http://gnso.icann.org/en/

3 2

Recordings, Attendance & AC Chat from IGO-INGO Curative Rights Protection PDP WG call on Thursday, 25 May 2017 at 16:00 UTC
by Michelle DeSmyter May 25, 2017

May 25, 2017

Dear All, Please find the attendance and MP3 recording along with the AC recording and chat below for the IGO-INGO Curative Rights Protection PDP WG Meeting held on Thursday, 25 May 2017 at 16:00 UTC. Mp3: https://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-igo-ingo-crp-pdp-25may17-en.mp3 <https://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-igo-ingo-crp-pdp-25may17-en.mp3> AC Recording: https://participate.icann.org/p4b9arbzl24/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__audio.icann.org_gnso_gn…> On page: https://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar[gnso.icann.org]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__gnso.icann.org_en_grou…> The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page: http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__gnso.icann.org_en_group…> Attendees: George Kirikos – Individual Jay Chapman – Individual Paul Tattersfield – Individual Petter Rindforth – IPC (co-chair) Mason Cole – RySG Osvaldo Novoa - ISPCP David Maher - RySG Apologies: Phil Corwin – BC (co-chair) Mary Wong - staff ICANN staff: Steve Chan Dennis Chang Michelle DeSmyter ** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list ** Mailing list archives: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-igo-ingo-crp/ Wiki Agenda page: https://community.icann.org/x/RhPfAw Thank you. Kind regards, Michelle ------------------------------- Adobe Connect chat transcript for Thursday, 25 May 2017 Michelle DeSmyter:Welcome to the IGO-INGO Access to Curative Rights Protection Mechanisms Working Group call on Thursday, 25 May 2017 at 16:00 UTC for 90 minutes. Michelle DeSmyter:Meeting agenda page: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_… George Kirikos:Hi folks. Petter Rindforth:Hi George George Kirikos:Hi Petter. Paul Tattersfield:Hi George, Petter George Kirikos:Hi Paul. George Kirikos:What's a quorum? 5? Osvaldo Novoa:Hello all George Kirikos:Hi Osvaldo. Steve Chan:Hi George, it's up to chair discretion. George Kirikos:We have 5 now. Welcome, Mason. Steve Chan:At least we have 4 + chair now though! Mason Cole:Greetings George Kirikos:Hi again. George Kirikos:Adobe totally died on me. George Kirikos:I sent some of my thoughts on the discussion document to the mailing list, see: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-igo-ingo-crp/2017-May/000742.html Steve Chan:@Petter, It's available on the Wiki - I can provide a link George Kirikos:Certainty as to applicable law --- not certainty as to the result, though. George Kirikos:(law and venue) Steve Chan:You can find a number of background documents on the Wiki here: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_di… Steve Chan:The specific WIPO document is here: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_do… Jay Chapman:reasonable, legitimate points, George. Paul Tattersfield:intersting points George, thanks for explaining them George Kirikos:New, in terms of the finality, since Option 1 is a final decision in court, vs. Option 2 is a final decision with less transparency. Jay Chapman:Would option 2 have the effect of preventing a registrant from going to a court of mutual prior to the rendering of a UDRP decision? George Kirikos:Good point, Jay. Paul Tattersfield:Perhaps we could have the best of both options, go with option 1 and recommend the RPM WG looks at offering an arbitration option only with agreement from both parties for all domain names not just IGO names? George Kirikos:@Paul: no need for a policy on that, as parties can always voluntarily decide to do so. Jay Chapman:Even if the answer to my question is "No", wouldn't the practical effect of option 2 be encouraging a court to punt? Jay Chapman:That's a valid point as well, George. Paul Tattersfield:@george in the us yes but not in the uk for example George Kirikos:Where is the IGO special procedure created by the USPTO?? George Kirikos:I'm sure TM holders want all the protections of the courts, and wouldn't agree to procedural changes that reduce their rights simply because an opponent is an IGO. Paul Tattersfield:6ter listing? George Kirikos:(i.e if an IGO wanted to challenge an issued TM in the US, for example) Paul Tattersfield:in rem even? Jay Chapman:just for clarification, how many people are in the "Full" wg? George Kirikos:28: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_pa… Steve Chan:Jay, the membership list is here: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_pa… George Kirikos:Lots of inactive members. Jay Chapman:We've averaged less than 10 for the past several months on the calls Paul Tattersfield:https://community.icann.org/display/gnsoicrpmpdp/Attendance+Re… George Kirikos:Weight the voting by attendance, perhaps. :-) Jay Chapman:thx Paul, Steve George Kirikos:That's a good idea. George Kirikos:"Registration OR use" vs. "AND", but also the rest of the terms on page 6 (section 4(a)) reflect gaming by IGOs, to rewrite the legal test to make it easier for them to win. George Kirikos:And the last part, "must prove that ANY of the elements" instead of ALL elements, etc. Paul Tattersfield:@george strange how indpendent people would try and make those extra changes along wih the main issues George Kirikos:Page 34, very last point, also raises the point of treating new gTLDs differently from existing domain names. George Kirikos:That's what they claim, but the small group proposal was also one-sided. George Kirikos:We saw their small group proposal. Paul Tattersfield:but the small group report was exparte this was a staff draft George Kirikos:We already know IGOs have used the existing UDRP successfully. Just need to educate them more, on their existing options. George Kirikos:@Paul: yes, was referencing Petter's statement that the IGOs only wanted a tweak of the UDRP. But, their small group report was more than a tweak. George Kirikos:I wrote about the 2007 staff report back in 2007, see CircleID blog post: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.circleid.com_posts_… George Kirikos:Recall (as pointed out in the comments to that blog post) all the fear-mongering about the .biz TLD raised by the Bank for International Settlements. George Kirikos:Too much FUD created by IGOs. George Kirikos:We can use the small group proposal, perhaps? George Kirikos:Other mailing list, with IGOs: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/discussion-igo-rc/2017-May/date.html Steve Chan:@Petter, I tried to adjust the action item to take into account your comments just now. Please let know if I've not captured it correctly. Steve Chan:Nothing from me Petter, thanks Osvaldo Novoa:Thank you and Bye George Kirikos:Bye folks! Paul Tattersfield:thanks Petter, All, bye Jay Chapman:Thanks, all

1 0

Draft pros/cons document for Recommendation #4, Options 1 & 2
by Mary Wong May 25, 2017

May 25, 2017

Dear Working Group members, Please find attached a preliminary draft document that staff has prepared pursuant to the group’s request on the call last week. The document attempts to summarize the benefits and disadvantages of recommending either Option 1 or Option 2, in relation to the IGO immunity question and the appropriate handling of further proceedings based on an initial UDRP/URS panel decision. As this is a “living document”, please let us know what your comments and any additional pros/cons are. We can also put the document into a Google Doc format if that will make it easier for everyone to comment and edit. Thanks and cheers Mary

2 1

Announcement: Pre-ICANN59 Policy Update Webinar Thursday, 15 June 2017 at 10:00 UTC and 19:00 UTC
by Terri Agnew May 22, 2017

May 22, 2017

https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2017-05-22-en Please RSVP via <https://goo.gl/forms/LTVbnZ8zXIBp5fFm1> this form by 13 June 2017. You will receive remote participation details the week of 12 June 2017. The ICANN Policy Development Support Team will host a Policy Update Webinar on Thursday, 15 June 2017 at 10:00 and 19:00 Coordinated Universal Time (UTC), in preparation for the upcoming ICANN59 Policy Forum in Johannesburg, South Africa. The purpose of the webinar is to summarize policy activities across the ICANN policy development community and to brief the community on the Empowered Community consultation and cross-community sessions taking place in Johannesburg. Briefings on the Empowered Community Consultation and Cross-Community Sessions: * Special session on the Proposed Fundamental Bylaws Amendments * Next-Generation Generic Top-Level Domain (gTLD) Registration Directory Services (RDS) policy requirements * General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) * Geographic names * Operational side of ICANN's Operating Plan and Budget * Who sets ICANN's priorities? Updates on Supporting Organizations and Advisory Committees: * Address Supporting Organization (ASO) and regional Internet registries (RIR) policy development * Country Code Names Supporting Organization (ccNSO) * Generic Names Supporting Organization (GNSO) * At-Large Advisory Committee (ALAC) and At-Large Community * Governmental Advisory Committee (GAC) * Root Server System Advisory Committee (RSSAC) * Security and Stability Advisory Committee (SSAC) The two sessions are duplicates, scheduled to accommodate different time zones. Each session runs in English for 90 minutes. The webinar will be conducted via Adobe Connect along with a dial-in conference bridge for audio. Participants will have the opportunity to ask questions at the end of each session. During the course of the webinar, participants may submit questions using the chat function in Adobe Connect. Recordings of the webinars will be made available <https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/presentations-2012-08-27-en> here. The Policy Development Support Team is always available to answer any questions via email at <mailto:policyinfo@icann.org> policyinfo(a)icann.org. Please RSVP via <https://goo.gl/forms/LTVbnZ8zXIBp5fFm1> this form by 13 June 2017. You will receive remote participation details the week of 12 June 2017. Ozan Sahin Community Engagement Support Coordinator Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) Direct Line: +90.212.999.6218 Mobile: +90.533.641.0007 Email: ozan.sahin(a)icann.org <mailto:ozan.sahin@icann.org> Skype: ozan.sahin.icann www.icann.org

1 0