Thanks Greg!

Very interesting but I'm afraid our scope is limited to the top level.....

On April 29, 2018 1:31:59 PM CST, Javier Rua <javrua@gmail.com> wrote:
>Thanks Greg.
>
>Javier Rúa-Jovet
>
>+1-787-396-6511
>twitter: @javrua
>skype: javier.rua1
>https://www.linkedin.com/in/javrua 
>
>
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 2:05 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>> 
>> I thought this article would be of interest to WT5.
>> 
>> Greg
>> 
>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>> From: Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com>
>> Date: Sun, Apr 29, 2018 at 12:37 PM
>> Subject: France seizes France.com from man who’s had it since ‘94, so
>he sues - Ars Technica
>> To: <gregshatanipc@gmail.com>
>> 
>> 
>> France seizes France.com from man who’s had it since ‘94, so he sues
>- Ars Technica
>> 
>> 
>> https://apple.news/AxM_G3MkGSXW8YOXTibo8wg
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list
>> Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org
>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

It is also a reminder of the level of bullying that some governments are capable of doing in this space and their disregard for the legitimate rights of others to use words in the DNS. This is a serious concern -- to see such little regard for the freedom of expression rights to use words with a geographic meaning. Absent an actual internationally agreed legal rule that holds people can’t use the word “France” or other words with geographic meanings, it would be a huge mistake for ICANN to adopt such an anti-innovation and pro-censorship position in domain name policy as demanded by some govts here. Robin

On Apr 29, 2018, at 3:36 PM, farzaneh badii <farzaneh.badii@gmail.com> wrote:

Great, lets keep it limited. But thanks Greg for reminding us where we can end up.. some supported two-letter second level domain names that correspond to cctlds to go to governments and cctld managers in new gtlds. Some of those were generic pronouns like in and it. But no one had mercy on generic names and no justifiable reason was given other than oh governments own everything when it comes to their cctld... or at least can claim ownership. The irony? Some of those cctld managers are actually private companies benefiting handsomely from this.

Farzaneh

On Sun, Apr 29, 2018 at 4:17 PM, Carlos Raul Gutierrez <carlosraul@gutierrez.se <mailto:carlosraul@gutierrez.se>> wrote: Thanks Greg!

Very interesting but I'm afraid our scope is limited to the top level.....

On April 29, 2018 1:31:59 PM CST, Javier Rua <javrua@gmail.com <mailto:javrua@gmail.com>> wrote: Thanks Greg.

Javier Rúa-Jovet

+1-787-396-6511 twitter: @javrua skype: javier.rua1 https://www.linkedin.com/in/javrua <https://www.linkedin.com/in/javrua>

On Apr 29, 2018, at 2:05 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>> wrote:

...

I thought this article would be of interest to WT5.

Greg

---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>> Date: Sun, Apr 29, 2018 at 12:37 PM Subject: France seizes France.com <http://france.com/> from man who’s had it since ‘94, so he sues - Ars Technica To: <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>>

France seizes France.com <http://france.com/> from man who’s had it since ‘94, so he sues - Ars Technica

https://apple.news/AxM_G3MkGSXW8YOXTibo8wg <https://apple.news/AxM_G3MkGSXW8YOXTibo8wg> _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org <mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5> -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

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I can’t but agree with you more Greg. In our blinkered view of a limited mandate we disregard the big picture. But ICANN seems confused on how to tackle the governmental autocracy. The issue lies there - diplomacy or war? Yours sincerely, Aslam G Mohamed. IP Attorney International Legal Consulting M: +1 646 243 9857.

On Apr 30, 2018, at 1:35 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> wrote:

I’m well aware of the scope of the WG. However, we don’t operate in a vacuum, and this case is both relevant and instructive — in terms of issues and arguments and for outcomes.

Greg

...

On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 1:24 PM Robin Gross <robin@ipjustice.org> wrote: It is also a reminder of the level of bullying that some governments are capable of doing in this space and their disregard for the legitimate rights of others to use words in the DNS. This is a serious concern -- to see such little regard for the freedom of expression rights to use words with a geographic meaning. Absent an actual internationally agreed legal rule that holds people can’t use the word “France” or other words with geographic meanings, it would be a huge mistake for ICANN to adopt such an anti-innovation and pro-censorship position in domain name policy as demanded by some govts here.

Robin

...

On Apr 29, 2018, at 3:36 PM, farzaneh badii <farzaneh.badii@gmail.com> wrote:

Great, lets keep it limited. But thanks Greg for reminding us where we can end up.. some supported two-letter second level domain names that correspond to cctlds to go to governments and cctld managers in new gtlds. Some of those were generic pronouns like in and it. But no one had mercy on generic names and no justifiable reason was given other than oh governments own everything when it comes to their cctld... or at least can claim ownership. The irony? Some of those cctld managers are actually private companies benefiting handsomely from this.

Farzaneh

...

On Sun, Apr 29, 2018 at 4:17 PM, Carlos Raul Gutierrez <carlosraul@gutierrez.se> wrote: Thanks Greg!

Very interesting but I'm afraid our scope is limited to the top level.....

...

On April 29, 2018 1:31:59 PM CST, Javier Rua <javrua@gmail.com> wrote: Thanks Greg.

Javier Rúa-Jovet

+1-787-396-6511 twitter: @javrua skype: javier.rua1 https://www.linkedin.com/in/javrua

...

On Apr 29, 2018, at 2:05 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> wrote:

I thought this article would be of interest to WT5.

Greg

---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> Date: Sun, Apr 29, 2018 at 12:37 PM Subject: France seizes France.com from man who’s had it since ‘94, so he sues - Ars Technica To: <gregshatanipc@gmail.com>

France seizes France.com from man who’s had it since ‘94, so he sues - Ars Technica

https://apple.news/AxM_G3MkGSXW8YOXTibo8wg _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5

-- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

_______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5

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---

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I'm sure you are Greg! And it was only meant a a slow ball to open up the discussion as you already know me well :) :) :) I have hear from some active members of the WT5 than come from the ccTLD side that they worry more about what happens with GeoNames at the second level than at the top one. The artificial lmits we have set on the scope of thirs WT, as well as in previous charters like the ccNSO-GNSO CWG on Country and Territory names, are the best example of the fact that by dragging its feet in the relevant policy issue, we are in the process of make ourselves irrelevant and others will fill the vacuum sooner rather than later. The asymmetries between the top and the second level, the asymmetries between worldwide generics and global TLDs, and the asymmetries in the different levels of restrictions within the new generics are not only a serious limitation in the openness of the internet, but are creating great opportunities to deal with the peoples wishes in other, closed platforms. Look forward to our call tomorrow Tuesday in my case, for some fast balls. --- Carlos Raúl Gutiérrez -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- mQENBFqh7xwBCAC7PBUUek72U8teLrAieWI+JBo/nz0rQObzKgzGNWm2bb+i90mD roNsrvwDJiGOsB/VAhJy6ilIhs++QrxhVEzMz6oKJa8ANaNNvnK2Z8heYm1aC97E qY6y1z853b6F3XrN8262dor9NZEqaK28NVwLsFTfkGKhb4f3rJlCDmhwxt5VHhBQ MHKGxyutq0fyJpG6QpoAoRLaYXrq+xjXARhN9JBjeRRzbjnBbWt7+lRdCrZdOxfD ivRut9F2zMJq8RmeI5goTcq03IRLtKf41A6Np5K//HLe7GlHWH9g4pSKF+UB+EMe S506TxI0dVbyT3jlTnhhfNA/bpQXHcdCZ5EhABEBAAG0F2Nhcmxvc3JhdWxAZ3V0 aWVycmV6LnNliQEcBBABAgAGBQJaoe8cAAoJEOkK/VKjr2tvztgH/1zInwNszd4w 21UilxVmXX2J1SPZG6xXwbwU5BukIm7iBVYwxxPlIAZdJbG0/QynK2oWU1e1Zjed vBemfJtjOn2yRWo3P13PUV/2/trHWgUk5bA3eIUbWDW5fQRLW+TaHC7TuRKgRaJC NgdBItEniQz7DakGzld3PWmsTvIWd4N/fqzATD3DOZmONF52lyVuAEvKoF4rMRTR emvCrL66xEu19u9+Urk7R+DQuFQMNuX0MqC6/vIsmXYZPH7jnV6ZDyzb0BUnjYcx 6MH/YwJx29yjA4iN1NpwCpy1hc+YP1oavz2t+6isM6wB0mXlAazw2d83zwypsH6C 8xgjuRFm9xQ= =RX04 -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- El 2018-04-30 11:35, Greg Shatan escribió:

I'm well aware of the scope of the WG. However, we don't operate in a vacuum, and this case is both relevant and instructive -- in terms of issues and arguments and for outcomes.

Greg

On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 1:24 PM Robin Gross <robin@ipjustice.org> wrote: It is also a reminder of the level of bullying that some governments are capable of doing in this space and their disregard for the legitimate rights of others to use words in the DNS. This is a serious concern -- to see such little regard for the freedom of expression rights to use words with a geographic meaning. Absent an actual internationally agreed legal rule that holds people can't use the word "France" or other words with geographic meanings, it would be a huge mistake for ICANN to adopt such an anti-innovation and pro-censorship position in domain name policy as demanded by some govts here.

Robin

On Apr 29, 2018, at 3:36 PM, farzaneh badii <farzaneh.badii@gmail.com> wrote:

Great, lets keep it limited. But thanks Greg for reminding us where we can end up.. some supported two-letter second level domain names that correspond to cctlds to go to governments and cctld managers in new gtlds. Some of those were generic pronouns like in and it. But no one had mercy on generic names and no justifiable reason was given other than oh governments own everything when it comes to their cctld... or at least can claim ownership. The irony? Some of those cctld managers are actually private companies benefiting handsomely from this.

Farzaneh On Sun, Apr 29, 2018 at 4:17 PM, Carlos Raul Gutierrez <carlosraul@gutierrez.se> wrote:

Thanks Greg!

Very interesting but I'm afraid our scope is limited to the top level.....

On April 29, 2018 1:31:59 PM CST, Javier Rua <javrua@gmail.com> wrote: Thanks Greg.

Javier Rúa-Jovet

+1-787-396-6511 twitter: @javrua skype: javier.rua1 https://www.linkedin.com/in/javrua

On Apr 29, 2018, at 2:05 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> wrote:

I thought this article would be of interest to WT5.

Greg

---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> Date: Sun, Apr 29, 2018 at 12:37 PM Subject: France seizes France.com [1] from man who's had it since '94, so he sues - Ars Technica To: <gregshatanipc@gmail.com>

France seizes France.com [1] from man who's had it since '94, so he sues - Ars Technica

https://apple.news/AxM_G3MkGSXW8YOXTibo8wg _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 Links: ------ [1] http://france.com/

it is a difficult one to sort out as we will always never get it right. Unless we find something that tally or resolves the issue. The way i am seeing it we need a solution else we will still keep turning around without a way forward. I kept giving these discussions a thought. .france or anything else. We know there are cities, states (Countries), companies or else. This is just a suggestion since we are focussed on geonames. How about we include something like for city “ ct.france” or state/country “st.france” something like this. I know unfortunately it won’t be just .france but sublevel it so that we can ensure a way forward. This is just a thought. The issue i see is perhaps some geonames may be problematic in time for example .london there are cities around the world with london in ontario canada as much as london in texas, usa and of course london, UK. In this case how about for city “ uk.london, us.london” etc., am not sure it solves the issues we face but we still need to look at the prospects of the business that runs underneath. Limitation is good but we should also perhaps look further down the line in anticipation. Just some thoughts. Kris

On May 1, 2018, at 10:15, Annebeth Lange <annebeth.lange@norid.no> wrote:

Hi Greg

Thanks for your response. I am sorry that I was unclear. For me second level is totally different from first level, as there are so many possibilities today to have a name, be it geographical or purely generic, at second level, since there are so many TLDs now, after 2012. And it will be impossible for one «word» to register under all TLDs.

As there will be only one applicant that can have the same word at first level, as TLD, in my view france.com <http://france.com/> and .france are different.

Kindly Annebeth

Annebeth B Lange Special Adviser International Policy UNINETT Norid AS Phone: +47 959 11 559 Mail: annebeth.lange@norid.no <mailto:annebeth.lange@norid.no>

30. apr. 2018 kl. 19:36 skrev Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>>:

...

I’m well aware of the scope of the WG. However, we don’t operate in a vacuum, and this case is both relevant and instructive — in terms of issues and arguments and for outcomes.

Greg

On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 1:24 PM Robin Gross <robin@ipjustice.org <mailto:robin@ipjustice.org>> wrote: It is also a reminder of the level of bullying that some governments are capable of doing in this space and their disregard for the legitimate rights of others to use words in the DNS. This is a serious concern -- to see such little regard for the freedom of expression rights to use words with a geographic meaning. Absent an actual internationally agreed legal rule that holds people can’t use the word “France” or other words with geographic meanings, it would be a huge mistake for ICANN to adopt such an anti-innovation and pro-censorship position in domain name policy as demanded by some govts here.

Robin

...

On Apr 29, 2018, at 3:36 PM, farzaneh badii <farzaneh.badii@gmail.com <mailto:farzaneh.badii@gmail.com>> wrote:

Great, lets keep it limited. But thanks Greg for reminding us where we can end up.. some supported two-letter second level domain names that correspond to cctlds to go to governments and cctld managers in new gtlds. Some of those were generic pronouns like in and it. But no one had mercy on generic names and no justifiable reason was given other than oh governments own everything when it comes to their cctld... or at least can claim ownership. The irony? Some of those cctld managers are actually private companies benefiting handsomely from this.

Farzaneh

On Sun, Apr 29, 2018 at 4:17 PM, Carlos Raul Gutierrez <carlosraul@gutierrez.se <mailto:carlosraul@gutierrez.se>> wrote: Thanks Greg!

Very interesting but I'm afraid our scope is limited to the top level.....

On April 29, 2018 1:31:59 PM CST, Javier Rua <javrua@gmail.com <mailto:javrua@gmail.com>> wrote: Thanks Greg.

Javier Rúa-Jovet

+1-787-396-6511 twitter: @javrua skype: javier.rua1 https://www.linkedin.com/in/javrua <https://www.linkedin.com/in/javrua>

On Apr 29, 2018, at 2:05 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>> wrote:

...

I thought this article would be of interest to WT5.

Greg

---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>> Date: Sun, Apr 29, 2018 at 12:37 PM Subject: France seizes France.com <http://france.com/> from man who’s had it since ‘94, so he sues - Ars Technica To: <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>>

France seizes France.com <http://france.com/> from man who’s had it since ‘94, so he sues - Ars Technica

https://apple.news/AxM_G3MkGSXW8YOXTibo8wg <https://apple.news/AxM_G3MkGSXW8YOXTibo8wg> _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org <mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5> -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

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---

Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org <mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5>_______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org <mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5>_______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5

Kris Seeburn seeburn.k@gmail.com www.linkedin.com/in/kseeburn/ <http://www.linkedin.com/in/kseeburn/> "Life is a Beach, it all depends at how you look at it"

An interesting case. Will be following the case very closely. There's case for both sides. Keen to see the ruling as it will set a precedence for other country names with .com. Regards *Ali Hussein* *Principal* *AHK & Associates* Tel: +254 713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim> 13th Floor , Delta Towers, Oracle Wing, Chiromo Road, Westlands, Nairobi, Kenya. Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with. On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 4:53 PM, Alexander Schubert < alexander@schubert.berlin> wrote:

Robin,

People are free to “use” the term “FRANCE” as much as they want – obviously in the DNS as well. But cybersquatting on “.france” or “.paris” is a bad idea. The term “Paris” doesn’t “belong” to the French Government, or the City Government of Paris, France. And nobody ever said so – and OBVIOUSLY there is no legal reasoning that would support such notion. But the underlying problem is a bit like “access to beaches”: Do you want that the entire coast of California would be closed off to the public – because some real estate corporation reserved all access rights – and grants access only to those they fancy (e.g. people who have a house at the beach – so they have their private beach)? That would be the result if a “brand” squatted in “.paris”.

There might be a “brand” or a “innovative business idea” that wants to cybersquat on .paris – but the good people of Paris (essentially all Parises in the world) have a right (and it doesn’t matter whether that right is written in stone or not – whether there is a “law” of any sorts) to use the name of their city as identifier. So IF somebody wanted to use .paris (I know it’s delegated) – then shouldn’t the people of Paris France (and potentially other significant places called Paris, such as in TX) be at least looped in? And that’s what the 2012 AG does: It requires that the representatives of The People in a given location sign off on the gTLD operation plan. I do not really understand what is so crazy terrible “off” on such notion?

If there are no prerequisite requirements (letter of non-objection) for applying for a city TLD I can GUARANTEE you that ALL cities with a population larger 500,000 (hint: it’s over 1,000 cities that fall in that category) will be applied for by just a handful of applicants – in an attempt to blanket the city space. And they have ZERO intention to do good for the people in that city – they just want to plunder the namespace. A city gTLD is a valuable infrastructure resource just as the street grid – and needs to be operated, managed and policed with GREATEST care – and in conjunction with the local authorities and operators. Anything else is BONKERS. At least in my mind.

Sorry for ranting – but city gTLDs are something that touches my heart. Not EVERYTHING on this planet should be “for sale for the highest bid”. At some point the “common good” is more important. Maybe I am too German.

Thanks,

Alexander.berlin

*From:* Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 [mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org] *On Behalf Of *Robin Gross *Sent:* Monday, April 30, 2018 8:24 PM *To:* Icann Gnso Newgtld Wg Wt5 <gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org> *Subject:* Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] France seizes France.com from man who’s had it since ‘94, so he sues - Ars Technica

It is also a reminder of the level of bullying that some governments are capable of doing in this space and their disregard for the legitimate rights of others to use words in the DNS. This is a serious concern -- to see such little regard for the freedom of expression rights to use words with a geographic meaning. Absent an actual internationally agreed legal rule that holds people can’t use the word “France” or other words with geographic meanings, it would be a huge mistake for ICANN to adopt such an anti-innovation and pro-censorship position in domain name policy as demanded by some govts here.

Robin

On Apr 29, 2018, at 3:36 PM, farzaneh badii <farzaneh.badii@gmail.com> wrote:

Great, lets keep it limited. But thanks Greg for reminding us where we can end up.. some supported two-letter second level domain names that correspond to cctlds to go to governments and cctld managers in new gtlds. Some of those were generic pronouns like in and it. But no one had mercy on generic names and no justifiable reason was given other than oh governments own everything when it comes to their cctld... or at least can claim ownership. The irony? Some of those cctld managers are actually private companies benefiting handsomely from this.

Farzaneh

On Sun, Apr 29, 2018 at 4:17 PM, Carlos Raul Gutierrez < carlosraul@gutierrez.se> wrote:

Thanks Greg!

Very interesting but I'm afraid our scope is limited to the top level.....

On April 29, 2018 1:31:59 PM CST, Javier Rua <javrua@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Greg.

Javier Rúa-Jovet

+1-787-396-6511

twitter: @javrua

skype: javier.rua1

https://www.linkedin.com/in/javrua

On Apr 29, 2018, at 2:05 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> wrote:

I thought this article would be of interest to WT5.

Greg

---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> Date: Sun, Apr 29, 2018 at 12:37 PM Subject: France seizes France.com <http://france.com/> from man who’s had it since ‘94, so he sues - Ars Technica To: <gregshatanipc@gmail.com>

France seizes France.com <http://france.com/> from man who’s had it since ‘94, so he sues - Ars Technica

https://apple.news/AxM_G3MkGSXW8YOXTibo8wg

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