possible requirements from GAC / law enforcement recommended documents
Despite the domain name I sometimes use (crankycanuck.ca), I don't really like to be cranky. But sending a note to at least dozens of people with "please see attached", no context, and a couple of Word documents raises my malware hackles (there's no reason any more to believe that anyone is actually in control of their mail accounts). Before I open these, could you say something about what might be in them, so that I can at least be reasonably certain you're not a bot infecting me? A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com
Before I open these, could you say something about what might be in them, so that I can at least be reasonably certain you're not a bot infecting me?
The GAC doc essentially says that WHOIS does the job they want it to, but they would like more validation and verification The LEA doc is one of their "wants lists" relating to the 2013 RAA - much of it it unnecessary and even unreasonable IMHO. Some of it went into the RAA despite strong objections. Some of it was rejected during RAA negotiations, but it appeared ICANN staff took it upon themselves to add it to the RAA "between drafts" anyway. TL:DR; "Law Enforcement" want Registrars to be unpaid, unwilling, contractually-obliged mass data collectors, becoming forced participants in the continued extension of (probably illegal) global surveillance Rob
One might add that a lot of the demands by law enforcement show that they have no idea about how registrars work and demands information that registrars may not even have legal or actual access to. Volker Am 13.07.2016 um 04:54 schrieb Rob Golding:
Before I open these, could you say something about what might be in them, so that I can at least be reasonably certain you're not a bot infecting me?
The GAC doc essentially says that WHOIS does the job they want it to, but they would like more validation and verification
The LEA doc is one of their "wants lists" relating to the 2013 RAA - much of it it unnecessary and even unreasonable IMHO. Some of it went into the RAA despite strong objections. Some of it was rejected during RAA negotiations, but it appeared ICANN staff took it upon themselves to add it to the RAA "between drafts" anyway.
TL:DR;
"Law Enforcement" want Registrars to be unpaid, unwilling, contractually-obliged mass data collectors, becoming forced participants in the continued extension of (probably illegal) global surveillance
Rob _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
Volker, parts of the Law Enforcement document seem to apply to the RAA in general and are out of scope for this PDP. That notwithstanding, it would be useful (or at least interesting) to know which data elements you are referring to (I suspect I know a couple, but that would be pure hypothesis on my part). Alan At 13/07/2016 05:16 AM, Volker Greimann wrote:
One might add that a lot of the demands by law enforcement show that they have no idea about how registrars work and demands information that registrars may not even have legal or actual access to.
Volker
Am 13.07.2016 um 04:54 schrieb Rob Golding:
Before I open these, could you say something about what might be in them, so that I can at least be reasonably certain you're not a bot infecting me?
The GAC doc essentially says that WHOIS does the job they want it to, but they would like more validation and verification
The LEA doc is one of their "wants lists" relating to the 2013 RAA - much of it it unnecessary and even unreasonable IMHO. Some of it went into the RAA despite strong objections. Some of it was rejected during RAA negotiations, but it appeared ICANN staff took it upon themselves to add it to the RAA "between drafts" anyway.
TL:DR;
"Law Enforcement" want Registrars to be unpaid, unwilling, contractually-obliged mass data collectors, becoming forced participants in the continued extension of (probably illegal) global surveillance
Rob _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net
Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann - legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net
Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems
CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
_______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
I believe you are moving onto deliberation territory again and I don't think we're there yet. Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 13, 2016, at 5:42 AM, Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca> wrote:
Volker, parts of the Law Enforcement document seem to apply to the RAA in general and are out of scope for this PDP. That notwithstanding, it would be useful (or at least interesting) to know which data elements you are referring to (I suspect I know a couple, but that would be pure hypothesis on my part).
Alan
At 13/07/2016 05:16 AM, Volker Greimann wrote:
One might add that a lot of the demands by law enforcement show that they have no idea about how registrars work and demands information that registrars may not even have legal or actual access to.
Volker
Am 13.07.2016 um 04:54 schrieb Rob Golding:
Before I open these, could you say something about what might be in them, so that I can at least be reasonably certain you're not a bot infecting me?
The GAC doc essentially says that WHOIS does the job they want it to, but they would like more validation and verification
The LEA doc is one of their "wants lists" relating to the 2013 RAA - much of it it unnecessary and even unreasonable IMHO. Some of it went into the RAA despite strong objections. Some of it was rejected during RAA negotiations, but it appeared ICANN staff took it upon themselves to add it to the RAA "between drafts" anyway.
TL:DR;
"Law Enforcement" want Registrars to be unpaid, unwilling, contractually-obliged mass data collectors, becoming forced participants in the continued extension of (probably illegal) global surveillance
Rob _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net
Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann - legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net
Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems
CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
_______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
_______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
Thanks for reminding everyone of this Victoria. It's nice not to have to do that myself. With regard to in scope or not, I want to make sure that everyone understands that the fact that something is in the RAA does not make it out of scope and I am quite sure that that is not what Alan was suggesting. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Victoria Sheckler Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2016 6:40 AM To: Alan Greenberg Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] possible requirements from GAC / law enforcement recommended documents I believe you are moving onto deliberation territory again and I don't think we're there yet. Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 13, 2016, at 5:42 AM, Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca> wrote:
Volker, parts of the Law Enforcement document seem to apply to the RAA in general and are out of scope for this PDP. That notwithstanding, it would be useful (or at least interesting) to know which data elements you are referring to (I suspect I know a couple, but that would be pure hypothesis on my part).
Alan
At 13/07/2016 05:16 AM, Volker Greimann wrote:
One might add that a lot of the demands by law enforcement show that they have no idea about how registrars work and demands information that registrars may not even have legal or actual access to.
Volker
Am 13.07.2016 um 04:54 schrieb Rob Golding:
Before I open these, could you say something about what might be in them, so that I can at least be reasonably certain you're not a bot infecting me?
The GAC doc essentially says that WHOIS does the job they want it to, but they would like more validation and verification
The LEA doc is one of their "wants lists" relating to the 2013 RAA - much of it it unnecessary and even unreasonable IMHO. Some of it went into the RAA despite strong objections. Some of it was rejected during RAA negotiations, but it appeared ICANN staff took it upon themselves to add it to the RAA "between drafts" anyway.
TL:DR;
"Law Enforcement" want Registrars to be unpaid, unwilling, contractually-obliged mass data collectors, becoming forced participants in the continued extension of (probably illegal) global surveillance
Rob _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net
Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann - legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net
Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems
CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
_______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
_______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
participants (6)
-
Alan Greenberg -
Andrew Sullivan -
Gomes, Chuck -
Rob Golding -
Victoria Sheckler -
Volker Greimann