January 2014 - Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg

Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] PPSAI Work Plan
by Mary Wong Feb. 5, 2014

Feb. 5, 2014

Dear Don, Jim and everyone, One of the various items for consideration in developing the WG's Work Plan will involve the planned timing of deliverables relating to each category of questions (however many there ultimately are or whether each category is tackled by a different sub-team). The WG may wish to consider, for example, whether certain questions/categories need to be addressed before others. Hopefully our next iteration of the Mind Map and proposed timeline/work plan will assist the WG in discussing Jim's suggestions, which reflects the methodology used in a couple of other WGs (and it is good to know that your team felt the IGO-INGO WG experience was productive and helpful, Jim!). The work plan is likely change over time depending on the nature and outcome of the WG (or sub-team) discussions, and as Jim notes certain categories (e.g. Main Issues) may be more organic than others. Should the WG decide to proceed via sub-teams, another thing to consider would be ensuring that the work is spread evenly across the WG rather than have a small group of people spread across various sub-teams (especially if the deliverables from those are due in short order!). I hope these thoughts are useful. To assist with your review of Jim's suggestions, I attach an updated version of Jim's document which adds the threshold question for Section III discussed on the call yesterday (using Steve's suggested wording) and with a couple of comments inserted to help provide context to one or two sub-questions that Kathy had asked about. Thanks and cheers Mary Mary Wong Senior Policy Director Internet Corporation for Assigned Names & Numbers (ICANN) Telephone: +1 603 574 4892 Email: mary.wong(a)icann.org * One World. One Internet. * From: Don Blumenthal <dblumenthal(a)pir.org> Date: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 9:45 AM To: Jim Bikoff <jbikoff(a)sgbdc.com>, "gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg(a)icann.org" <gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg(a)icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] PPSAI Work Plan > Jim, > > Thanks very much for all the work you put in on this. I am very anxious to see > the group¹s thoughts on it. I will reserve mine for now except to note that > reviewing seven reports each week is inducing cold sweats already. :) > > I will note up front though that apart from process considerations, staff > support availability will have to be part of our work plan decisions. > > Best, > > Don > > From: Jim Bikoff <jbikoff(a)sgbdc.com> > Date: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 at 6:04 PM > To: Don Blumenthal <dblumenthal(a)pir.org>, PPSAI <gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg(a)icann.org> > Subject: PPSAI Work Plan > > Dear Don, > > As you indicated, a Work Plan should help guide our Group's efforts over the > upcoming weeks. We have some suggestions, based on our positive experience in > the IGO/INGO PDP Working Group. > > Please give us the benefit of your thoughts on the following suggested Work > Plan: > > 1. Summarize and compile Working Group survey responses --possibly in an > Excel file, circulated among Group members. This should be a task for ICANN > Staff. > > > > 2. Based on Working Group survey responses, clarify the terminology and > issues in each Group of the Charter questions. Identify consensus or > near-consensus responses and hold Consensus Call on these issues. > > > > 3. Create Working Group sub-teams to work on issues by group: (a) > Registration; (b) Maintenance; (c) Contact; (d) Relay; (e) Reveal; (f) > Publication; (g) Termination. Note that the current groupings of questions do > not include ³Publication² or ³Termination² categories. We propose adding > these categories, which would include questions taken out of other current > categories, as identified in the attached redline draft. Note also that the > remaining questions in the Main Issues group, an overarching category, would > be addressed organically as a result of this proposed process. > > > > a) Each sub-team produces a report, which is delivered to Don by each > Friday or Saturday at the latest, so it can be combined by staff with the > other sub-team reports and discussed at the upcoming Tuesday Working Group > teleconference. > > > > b) When the responses to the survey come in from the other > constituencies, ICANN staff summarizes the responses for the Working Group. > Each sub-team then analyzes the constituencies' and Working Group's responses > (including majority and minority views) in its area, and delivers the result > to Don by Friday or Saturday, so ICANN staff can combine it all in one > document, such as an Excel file, for full Working Group review. > > > > 4. Working Group holds Consensus Call and revises final Excel file of > responses to survey accordingly. > > > > 5. Draft report presenting (1) Consensus Proposals (if any); (2) > Non-Consensus Proposals w/ Levels of Support; (3) Minority Views w/Levels of > Support. > > > > 6. Present Report for Public Comment. > > > > This process will provide a means to circle back to the remaining Main Issues > questions. > > Regards, > > Jim > > James L. Bikoff > Silverberg, Goldman & Bikoff, LLP > 1101 30th Street, NW > Suite 120 > Washington, DC 20007 > Tel: 202-944-3303 > Fax: 202-944-3306 > jbikoff(a)sgbdc.com > >

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Questions
by Don Blumenthal Jan. 31, 2014

Jan. 31, 2014

Thanks for all of your contributions that last few days. I took Michele’s last version and tweaked it add Hector’s comments. That should capture everything since Tuesday. I am attaching a 1/31 iteration. However, our focus now needs to be the work plan, and locking the initial questions down is the first step. With that in mind, we will distribute a version of today’s file on them. You won’t see the substantive points in the next file that comes your way, except where the points address why an item should or should not be in the list. We will work off this document next Tuesday. Regards, Don

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Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] PPSAI Work Plan
by Michele Neylon - Blacknight Jan. 30, 2014

Jan. 30, 2014

Some more comments on the comments and comments on the text .. -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting & Colocation, Domains http://www.blacknight.co/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Locall: 1850 929 929 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Fax. +353 (0) 1 4811 763 Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces(a)icann.org [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Kathy Kleiman Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2014 7:34 PM To: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg(a)icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] PPSAI Work Plan And an additional edit (while still reviewing those newly added). Best, Kathy : Hi all, I made some minor changes and added some comments to those of Gema. Best, Volker Am 30.01.2014 13:09, schrieb Campillos Gonzalez, Gema Maria: Dear Group, I have worked on the PPSAI Charter Questions Grouping and here you have the result. Best regards, Gema Campillos Deputy Director of Information Society Services Secretary of State for Telecommunications and Information Society SPAIN De: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces(a)icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] En nombre de Mary Wong Enviado el: miércoles, 29 de enero de 2014 16:57 Para: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg(a)icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org> Asunto: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] PPSAI Work Plan Dear Don, Jim and everyone, One of the various items for consideration in developing the WG's Work Plan will involve the planned timing of deliverables relating to each category of questions (however many there ultimately are or whether each category is tackled by a different sub-team). The WG may wish to consider, for example, whether certain questions/categories need to be addressed before others. Hopefully our next iteration of the Mind Map and proposed timeline/work plan will assist the WG in discussing Jim's suggestions, which reflects the methodology used in a couple of other WGs (and it is good to know that your team felt the IGO-INGO WG experience was productive and helpful, Jim!). The work plan is likely change over time depending on the nature and outcome of the WG (or sub-team) discussions, and as Jim notes certain categories (e.g. Main Issues) may be more organic than others. Should the WG decide to proceed via sub-teams, another thing to consider would be ensuring that the work is spread evenly across the WG rather than have a small group of people spread across various sub-teams (especially if the deliverables from those are due in short order!). I hope these thoughts are useful. To assist with your review of Jim's suggestions, I attach an updated version of Jim's document which adds the threshold question for Section III discussed on the call yesterday (using Steve's suggested wording) and with a couple of comments inserted to help provide context to one or two sub-questions that Kathy had asked about. Thanks and cheers Mary Mary Wong Senior Policy Director Internet Corporation for Assigned Names & Numbers (ICANN) Telephone: +1 603 574 4892 Email: mary.wong(a)icann.org<mailto:mary.wong@icann.org> * One World. One Internet. * From: Don Blumenthal <dblumenthal(a)pir.org<mailto:dblumenthal@pir.org>> Date: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 9:45 AM To: Jim Bikoff <jbikoff(a)sgbdc.com<mailto:jbikoff@sgbdc.com>>, "gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg(a)icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org>" <gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg(a)icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] PPSAI Work Plan Jim, Thanks very much for all the work you put in on this. I am very anxious to see the group's thoughts on it. I will reserve mine for now except to note that reviewing seven reports each week is inducing cold sweats already. :) I will note up front though that apart from process considerations, staff support availability will have to be part of our work plan decisions. Best, Don From: Jim Bikoff <jbikoff(a)sgbdc.com<mailto:jbikoff@sgbdc.com>> Date: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 at 6:04 PM To: Don Blumenthal <dblumenthal(a)pir.org<mailto:dblumenthal@pir.org>>, PPSAI <gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg(a)icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Subject: PPSAI Work Plan Dear Don, As you indicated, a Work Plan should help guide our Group's efforts over the upcoming weeks. We have some suggestions, based on our positive experience in the IGO/INGO PDP Working Group. Please give us the benefit of your thoughts on the following suggested Work Plan: 1. Summarize and compile Working Group survey responses --possibly in an Excel file, circulated among Group members. This should be a task for ICANN Staff. 2. Based on Working Group survey responses, clarify the terminology and issues in each Group of the Charter questions. Identify consensus or near-consensus responses and hold Consensus Call on these issues. 3. Create Working Group sub-teams to work on issues by group: (a) Registration; (b) Maintenance; (c) Contact; (d) Relay; (e) Reveal; (f) Publication; (g) Termination. Note that the current groupings of questions do not include "Publication" or "Termination" categories. We propose adding these categories, which would include questions taken out of other current categories, as identified in the attached redline draft. Note also that the remaining questions in the Main Issues group, an overarching category, would be addressed organically as a result of this proposed process. a) Each sub-team produces a report, which is delivered to Don by each Friday or Saturday at the latest, so it can be combined by staff with the other sub-team reports and discussed at the upcoming Tuesday Working Group teleconference. b) When the responses to the survey come in from the other constituencies, ICANN staff summarizes the responses for the Working Group. Each sub-team then analyzes the constituencies' and Working Group's responses (including majority and minority views) in its area, and delivers the result to Don by Friday or Saturday, so ICANN staff can combine it all in one document, such as an Excel file, for full Working Group review. 4. Working Group holds Consensus Call and revises final Excel file of responses to survey accordingly. 5. Draft report presenting (1) Consensus Proposals (if any); (2) Non-Consensus Proposals w/ Levels of Support; (3) Minority Views w/Levels of Support. 6. Present Report for Public Comment. This process will provide a means to circle back to the remaining Main Issues questions. Regards, Jim James L. Bikoff Silverberg, Goldman & Bikoff, LLP 1101 30th Street, NW Suite 120 Washington, DC 20007 Tel: 202-944-3303 Fax: 202-944-3306 jbikoff(a)sgbdc.com<mailto:jbikoff@sgbdc.com> _______________________________________________ Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg(a)icann.org<mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg -- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. 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Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] PPSAI Work Plan
by Michele Neylon - Blacknight Jan. 30, 2014

Jan. 30, 2014

TBH I think subteams at this juncture is possibly counter-productive We've used them in past working groups when we were quite advanced in our work and needed to break off a small group of people to work on a specific issue / problem / hypothesis and then fold their work back into the main group. At this stage we're nowhere near that .. As others have pointed out, some people will want to participate in several subteams - again this down to the premature stage of development of the WG's work Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting & Colocation, Domains http://www.blacknight.co/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Locall: 1850 929 929 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Fax. +353 (0) 1 4811 763 Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces(a)icann.org [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of McGrady, Paul D. Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 6:24 PM To: Tim Ruiz; Mary Wong Cc: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg(a)icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] PPSAI Work Plan I would greatly appreciate any comments based on anyone's past experience regarding whether or not the subteam model (in cases where their conclusions are not governing) speed the process, or just add layers. Best, Paul From: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces(a)icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Tim Ruiz Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 11:57 AM To: Mary Wong Cc: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg(a)icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] PPSAI Work Plan One issue I have seen with the subteam concept is that there are many who end up wanting to be on several or every subteam (including myself in that at times). So it is crucial that everyone feels comfortable with the fact that the subteam will not be making final decisions, but only informing the group to aid with consensus decisions, and will not have undue influence on the decision to be made. In any event, many may still want to be on many or all subteams and I feel it is not appropriate to tell anyone what they may or may not participate in. Tim On Jan 29, 2014, at 10:57 AM, "Mary Wong" <mary.wong(a)icann.org<mailto:mary.wong@icann.org>> wrote: Dear Don, Jim and everyone, One of the various items for consideration in developing the WG's Work Plan will involve the planned timing of deliverables relating to each category of questions (however many there ultimately are or whether each category is tackled by a different sub-team). The WG may wish to consider, for example, whether certain questions/categories need to be addressed before others. Hopefully our next iteration of the Mind Map and proposed timeline/work plan will assist the WG in discussing Jim's suggestions, which reflects the methodology used in a couple of other WGs (and it is good to know that your team felt the IGO-INGO WG experience was productive and helpful, Jim!). The work plan is likely change over time depending on the nature and outcome of the WG (or sub-team) discussions, and as Jim notes certain categories (e.g. Main Issues) may be more organic than others. Should the WG decide to proceed via sub-teams, another thing to consider would be ensuring that the work is spread evenly across the WG rather than have a small group of people spread across various sub-teams (especially if the deliverables from those are due in short order!). I hope these thoughts are useful. To assist with your review of Jim's suggestions, I attach an updated version of Jim's document which adds the threshold question for Section III discussed on the call yesterday (using Steve's suggested wording) and with a couple of comments inserted to help provide context to one or two sub-questions that Kathy had asked about. Thanks and cheers Mary Mary Wong Senior Policy Director Internet Corporation for Assigned Names & Numbers (ICANN) Telephone: +1 603 574 4892 Email: mary.wong(a)icann.org<mailto:mary.wong@icann.org> * One World. One Internet. * From: Don Blumenthal <dblumenthal(a)pir.org<mailto:dblumenthal@pir.org>> Date: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 9:45 AM To: Jim Bikoff <jbikoff(a)sgbdc.com<mailto:jbikoff@sgbdc.com>>, "gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg(a)icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org>" <gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg(a)icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] PPSAI Work Plan Jim, Thanks very much for all the work you put in on this. I am very anxious to see the group's thoughts on it. I will reserve mine for now except to note that reviewing seven reports each week is inducing cold sweats already. :) I will note up front though that apart from process considerations, staff support availability will have to be part of our work plan decisions. Best, Don From: Jim Bikoff <jbikoff(a)sgbdc.com<mailto:jbikoff@sgbdc.com>> Date: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 at 6:04 PM To: Don Blumenthal <dblumenthal(a)pir.org<mailto:dblumenthal@pir.org>>, PPSAI <gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg(a)icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Subject: PPSAI Work Plan Dear Don, As you indicated, a Work Plan should help guide our Group's efforts over the upcoming weeks. We have some suggestions, based on our positive experience in the IGO/INGO PDP Working Group. Please give us the benefit of your thoughts on the following suggested Work Plan: 1. Summarize and compile Working Group survey responses --possibly in an Excel file, circulated among Group members. This should be a task for ICANN Staff. 2. Based on Working Group survey responses, clarify the terminology and issues in each Group of the Charter questions. Identify consensus or near-consensus responses and hold Consensus Call on these issues. 3. Create Working Group sub-teams to work on issues by group: (a) Registration; (b) Maintenance; (c) Contact; (d) Relay; (e) Reveal; (f) Publication; (g) Termination. Note that the current groupings of questions do not include "Publication" or "Termination" categories. We propose adding these categories, which would include questions taken out of other current categories, as identified in the attached redline draft. Note also that the remaining questions in the Main Issues group, an overarching category, would be addressed organically as a result of this proposed process. a) Each sub-team produces a report, which is delivered to Don by each Friday or Saturday at the latest, so it can be combined by staff with the other sub-team reports and discussed at the upcoming Tuesday Working Group teleconference. b) When the responses to the survey come in from the other constituencies, ICANN staff summarizes the responses for the Working Group. Each sub-team then analyzes the constituencies' and Working Group's responses (including majority and minority views) in its area, and delivers the result to Don by Friday or Saturday, so ICANN staff can combine it all in one document, such as an Excel file, for full Working Group review. 4. Working Group holds Consensus Call and revises final Excel file of responses to survey accordingly. 5. Draft report presenting (1) Consensus Proposals (if any); (2) Non-Consensus Proposals w/ Levels of Support; (3) Minority Views w/Levels of Support. 6. Present Report for Public Comment. This process will provide a means to circle back to the remaining Main Issues questions. Regards, Jim James L. Bikoff Silverberg, Goldman & Bikoff, LLP 1101 30th Street, NW Suite 120 Washington, DC 20007 Tel: 202-944-3303 Fax: 202-944-3306 jbikoff(a)sgbdc.com<mailto:jbikoff@sgbdc.com> <PPSAI Charter Questions Grouping - 29 Jan 2014 - kk.gb.mw.docx> _______________________________________________ Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg(a)icann.org<mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg The contents of this message may be privileged and confidential. Therefore, if this message has been received in error, please delete it without reading it. Your receipt of this message is not intended to waive any applicable privilege. Please do not disseminate this message without the permission of the author. ****************************************************************************** Any tax advice contained in this email was not intended to be used, and cannot be used, by you (or any other taxpayer) to avoid penalties under the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as amended.

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Continuation of GNSO WG Newcomer Open House Sessions
by Glen de Saint Géry Jan. 30, 2014

Jan. 30, 2014

http://gnso.icann.org/en/announcements/announcement-28jan14-en.htm Continuation of GNSO WG Newcomer Open House Sessions Following a successful GNSO WG Newcomer Open House session pilot session<http://www.ispcp.info/policy-resources/gnso-working-groups-newcomer-open-ho…> in December of last year, we would like to continue with these sessions to allow for new GNSO WG participants to come together and ask any questions they may have about GNSO Working Groups, procedures and/or processes. We know there is a lot of information to digest when you join a GNSO Working Group and would like to offer this opportunity to come together, talk and answer any questions you may have. To allow for maximum participation in these calls, the proposed schedule is as follows: Thursday 6 February at 12.00 UTC Thursday 6 March at 20.00 UTC Thursday 3 April at 12.00 UTC Thursday 1 May at 20.00 UTC Thursday 5 June at 12.00 UTC Thursday 3 July at 20.00 UTC Thursday 7 August at 12.00 UTC Thursday 4 September at 20.00 UTC Thursday 2 October at 12.00 UTC Thursday 6 November at 20.00 UTC Thursday 4 December at 12.00 UTC To convert to your local time zone, please see http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converter.html. If you are interested to join the next meeting on 6 February or any of the future meetings, please let the GNSO Secretariat know (gnso-secs(a)icann.org<mailto:gnso-secs@icann.org>) and they will send you the call details. If there are any specific questions you already have, or any overviews or introductions you think would be helpful (e.g. GNSO Policy Development Process or GNSO Working Group guidelines), please let us know in advance and we will prepare materials accordingly. Feel free to share this invitation with others that you think may be interested. We look forward to welcoming you at the next meeting! Glen de Saint Géry GNSO Secretariat gnso.secretariat(a)gnso.icann.org<mailto:gnso.secretariat@gnso.icann.org> http://gnso.icann.org

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UPDATED: MP3 PPSAI WG - Tuesday 28 January 2014 at 1500UTC
by Nathalie Peregrine Jan. 29, 2014

Jan. 29, 2014

With additional participants. Kind regards Nathalie From: owner-gnso-secs(a)icann.org [mailto:owner-gnso-secs@icann.org] On Behalf Of Nathalie Peregrine Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 5:26 PM To: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg(a)icann.org Cc: gnso-secs(a)icann.org Subject: [gnso-secs] MP3 PPSAI WG - Tuesday 28 January 2014 at 1500UTC Dear All, Please find the MP3 recording for the Privacy and Proxy Services Accreditation Issues PDP Working group call held on Tuesday 28 January 2014 at 15:00 UTC at: http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-ppsa-20140128-en.mp3 On page: http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#<http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#may>jan The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page: http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/ Attendees: Don Blumenthal - RySG Luc Seufer - RrSG Marie-Laure Lemineur - NPOC Michele Neylon - RrSG Volker Greimann - RrSG Griffin Barnett - IPC Justin Macy - CBUC Kathy Kleiman - RySG Jim Bikoff - IPC Graeme Bunton - RrSG Tatiana Khramstova - RrSG Nic Steinbach - RrSG David Heasley - IPC James Bladel - RrSG Susan Prosser - RrSG Kiran Malancharuvil - IPC David Cake - NCSG Todd Williams - IPC Valeriya Sherman - IPC Alex Deacon - IPC Steve Metalitz - IPC Amr Elsadr - NCUC Tobias Sattler - RrSG Kristina Rosette - IPC Gema Campillos - GAC Carlton Samuels - ALAC Paul McGrady - IPC Darcy Southwell - RrSG Ben Anderson - RrSG Billy Watenpaugh - RrSG Emily Emanual - BC Apologies: Statton Hammock - RySG Holly Raiche - ALAC Osvaldo Novoa - ISPCP Roy Balleste - NCUC Stephanie Perrin - NCUC Joe Catapano ICANN staff: Marika Konings Mary Wong Amy Bivins Mike Zupke Nathalie Peregrine ** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list ** Mailing list archives: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg/ Wiki page: https://community.icann.org/x/9iCfAg Thank you. Kind regards, Nathalie Peregrine Marika Konings:Welcome to the PPSAI WG Meeting of 28 January 2014 Paul McGrady:Good morning everyone from Frozen Chicago! Mike Zupke:Greetings, Paul. Bladel:@Paul, just a few hours west of you...it's not so bad today. We are already above zero! Michele Neylon:If you hear anything odd from my end it's because the building is being power washed Michele Neylon:it's like working in a car wash today Michele Neylon:http://instagram.com/p/jt0nhNmJ36/ Nathalie Peregrine:Luc Seufer has joined Michele Neylon:in case anyone doesn't believe me :) Nathalie Peregrine:Volker Greimann has joined Valeriya Sherman:David Heasley is also on the call Nathalie Peregrine:Nic Steinbach has joined Nathalie Peregrine:thank you Valeriya, noted Nathalie Peregrine:Gema Campillos is also on the call Volker Greimann:I am on Gema Campillos:Hi everybody! I´m back! I understand the letters have already been sent out. GAC members have not received them yet. I´ll brief my colleagues about the WG when the letter arrives. Nathalie Peregrine:Amr Elsadr is also on the call Amr Elsadr:dialling in now. Mary Wong 2:Thanks, Gema, for the note. We will follow up with our colleagues who support the GAC to ensure that the letter (sent to the GAC Chair) is distributed to members. Amr Elsadr:Hi. Just joined the call. Kathy Kleiman:I think we will wind up spending way too much time on definitions if we don't have an initial threshold questions... Nathalie Peregrine:Kristina Rosette has joined the AC room Nathalie Peregrine:Susan Prosser has joined the call Mary Wong 2:@James - would adding "registered" to III. (1) address your point? Bladel:Hi Mary. I'm not sure. We can talk about the "domain name used for" or the "content associated with a domain name" which is probably a website, but could be email (commercial or non-commercial) or an app, or something eelse. Mary Wong 2:@Michele, the SO/AC/SG/C responses may help the WG fine tune its work/questions further. You can also go back to them with additional questions/requests at some point if appropriate. Mary Wong 2:@James, thanks. Perhaps the group can consider adding another bullet point about this under III. (1) then? Nathalie Peregrine:Carlton Samuels has joined the AC room Carlton Samuels:Hi everybody. My apologies for the late join Graeme Bunton:Akin to a conditional survey Bladel:Maybe doesn't need to be done formally, but should be kept in mind or "flagged" when found. Nathalie Peregrine:David Cake has joinjed the call Marie-laure Lemineur:+1 Michele Amr Elsadr:@Michele: +1. Carlton Samuels:No audio to me on the A/C Michele Neylon:dial in :) Michele Neylon:also Don seems to be coming and going volume wise Carlton Samuels:Was about to try Skype to US TF :-) Mary Wong 2:@Michele, are you on AC audio or phone bridge? The latter tends to be clearer and more stable. Amr Elsadr:@Carlton. That's what I'm using. Working well. Graeme Bunton:Don sounds fine to me using the AC Audio Nathalie Peregrine:Carlton, we can dial out to you if you would rather not dial in Kathy Kleiman:Ques 1 for III. Registration: Should the WG create categories of p/p customers - or continue to support the current system in which proxy/privacy services are available to companies, noncommercial organizations and individuals? Valeriya Sherman:How and when are we planning to use the results of the WG member survey? Michele Neylon:+1 Gema Michele Neylon:on the audio Michele Neylon:not on anything else :) Marika Konings:@Valeriya - the idea would be to include these together with feedback received from SG/C/AC/SOs as input for the WG to consider in relation to each of these charter questions. Mary Wong 2:All, FYI - the date by which we requested that SO/AC/SG/Cs send us their input is Friday 28 Feb. Luc Seufer:I think Carlton ihas dialed in. Nathalie Peregrine:Carlton, I have muted your AC mic Carlton Samuels:No trouble. I'm finally in!! Kathy Kleiman:Welcome! Valeriya Sherman:Thanks @Marika and Mary. Mary Wong 2:@Steve, that is correct - the PDP Manual obligates every WG to seek SO/AC input as early as possible in its deliberations. It does not say you have to wait till they all come in before proceeding. Mary Wong 2:But one advantage of early input is of course that it can be helpful to the WG as it begins its work. Marika Konings:Identifying these sub-questions may also help the WG to identify whether there are any areas that require additional data or research. Marika Konings:as well as planning how to tackle its work (which should form the basis for the work plan) Graeme Bunton:sounds better Bladel:Much better! Susan Prosser:much better Marie-laure Lemineur:so have we reached an agreement re> Kathy' s question? Gema Campillos:I hear to you better, Don. Michele Neylon:I'll try to come back Nathalie Peregrine:the line has been muted Gema Campillos:hear you, sorry Carlton Samuels:@Steve: +1 We move it along and add input from SOs/ACs as we go along. Early input - any input would be Very Helpful and will always help the conversations towards consensus Mary Wong 2:@Marie-Laure, we will add a footnote/reference to capture Kathy's, James' and Steve's input on that and have a revised document by the next meeting. Kathy Kleiman:Great, tx Steve! Kathy Kleiman:Right, agree with Steve. Kathy Kleiman:Perfect. Marie-laure Lemineur:@steve I agree.. Kathy Kleiman:Steve: can you edit the text per the change - and we can add it as a formal ques in Section III? Carlton Samuels:@Steve: But before we say change, let's ask the questions that probe any disability or deleterious impact associated with status quo Bladel:How about this: What is the threshold for determining that a "class" or "category" of user/user should be denied from accessing these services? Kathy Kleiman:James: but is there a threshold? Gema Campillos:I have some comments, but are not related to the categories issue. May I ask them now or bring them on the mailing list? Amr Elsadr:Wether categorzation of domain name registrants should be required of accredited service providers is the charter question, isn't it? Mary Wong 2:@Gema, do raise your hand so Don can see it and you can speak. Don Blumenthal:I see Gemas Don Blumenthal:'s question. Go ahead with what you want to raise Luc Seufer:I still have faith in ENUM! Kathy Kleiman:I think we have agreemend on the threshold question: and I would be happy to accept Steve's edits... Valeriya Sherman:It would make sense for us to review and incorporate input from the surveys of the WG members before we get input from SOs/ACs on Feb 28. Might help us clarify issues/definitions, identify sub-questions and move towards consensus. Thoughts? Mary Wong 2:@Amr, that was the point Steve made initially. As mentioned we will capture these discussions in the document by way of a footnote - it may be confusing to add so many suggestions on the same point as additional questions or bullet points. Kathy Kleiman:@Mary, the proposal is for a threshold question - a Ques. #1 in III. Registration. steve metalitz:@Kathy, how about something like this: Currently, proxy/privacy services are available to companies, noncommercial organizations and individuals. Should there be any change to this aspect of the current system in the new accreditation standards? Kathy Kleiman:There seems to be convergence on the language. Graeme Bunton:Good points James Carlton Samuels:@James: +1. I agree we start at looking at the issue and impacts, decide which ones are bad for business, set a standard for accessing and suggest a pathway to access the services Amr Elsadr:@Mary: My understanding is as per Kathy's comment - changing the txt of the threshold question. Kathy Kleiman:@Steve: good wording! Mary Wong 2:@Kathy, I had thought Don had agreed to a footnote some time ago. However, if Steve and James and you agree on wording we can add this as a bullet point. indicating that it is a threshold question for III(1). Kathy Kleiman:@Mary: I think we can add it as a threshold question in III... Mary Wong 2:Or we can add it at the top as a threshold question. Mary Wong 2:Yes Kathy! :) Kathy Kleiman:Second option - tx :-) Amr Elsadr:@Kathy: +1 (to Mary's second option). It seems there is no objection as per Steve's last suggestion. Amr Elsadr:@Steve: Correct me if I'm mistaken please. :) Amr Elsadr:Are there laws regarding p/p services, or are they more focused on contact data being published on the actual website's content? Luc Seufer:@Amr not as far as know. Here, laws on hosting uses deal with hosting requirements. Kathy Kleiman:@Marika - there seems to be some ambiguity of use of "reveal" and "publish" - should I point that out on the list? Amr Elsadr:@Luc: Thanks. That's my understanding as well, but I am not an expert. :) Mary Wong 2:@Kathy, that may be something for the Reveal sub group to discuss. Mary Wong 2:(if that is how the WG decides to proceed; hence it would be helpful to decide the approach sooner rathr than later). Graeme Bunton:INFINITY! Kathy Kleiman:Wow Alice in Wonderland! Mary Wong 2:And we have multiple screens too when supporting WG calls :) Luc Seufer:Inception? IPCand NC agreeing, I knew I was dreaming Luc Seufer:;-) Amr Elsadr::) Marika Konings:@Kathy - as Mary said, developing definitions is probably something that will occur as part of the WG deliberations on these questions. Kathy Kleiman:@Marika and Mary, I think there is a place in the new bullets where the word "publish" is used in lieu of "reveal." big difference in implications so it is something i will share. Kathy Kleiman:... in upcoming comments. Paul McGrady:While it took some time, I thought today's discussion was extremely helpful. Thank you all. Volker Greimann:yes, provided it is not at 7:30 in the morning Nathalie Peregrine:Phil Marano has joined the AC room Marie-laure Lemineur:I support the idea of a F2F meeting in Singapore Amr Elsadr:@Volker: +1 Phil Marano:Very sorry to be so late, I had a meeting run long. Phil Marano:I'll listen to the recording when it is published. Mary Wong 2:Assuming the main schedule doesn't change much, Thursday morning is usually good. Mary Wong 2:That is what we used for the first meeting in Buenos Aires. Carlton Samuels:@Kathy: There is indeed a difference even in the basic grammar between 'publish' and 'reveal'. In this context this is even of greater importance to respect the difference in meaning. Tobias Sattler:@Volker: +1 Amr Elsadr:@Mary: There were some WG meetings at 07:30 in BA. They didn't attract as much participation as we would hope. Mary Wong 2:@Amr, same thing for evenings :( Bladel:Wait...isn't PIR a sponsor? Amr Elsadr:I know scheduling is not easy, but WG f2f is important. Tobias Sattler:Thank you Amr Elsadr:Thanks Don. Bye. Graeme Bunton:Thanks Don Justin Macy:Thanks! Kathy Kleiman:@ Carlton: I'll put out more details soon. Marie-laure Lemineur:tx Don and all Luc Seufer:Thanks, bye David Cake:thanks all Carlton Samuels:Thanks Don. Thanks all. Stimulating discussion Susan Prosser:thanks Don.

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PPSAI Work Plan
by Jim Bikoff Jan. 29, 2014

Jan. 29, 2014

Dear Don, As you indicated, a Work Plan should help guide our Group's efforts over the upcoming weeks. We have some suggestions, based on our positive experience in the IGO/INGO PDP Working Group. Please give us the benefit of your thoughts on the following suggested Work Plan: 1. Summarize and compile Working Group survey responses --possibly in an Excel file, circulated among Group members. This should be a task for ICANN Staff. 2. Based on Working Group survey responses, clarify the terminology and issues in each Group of the Charter questions. Identify consensus or near-consensus responses and hold Consensus Call on these issues. 3. Create Working Group sub-teams to work on issues by group: (a) Registration; (b) Maintenance; (c) Contact; (d) Relay; (e) Reveal; (f) Publication; (g) Termination. Note that the current groupings of questions do not include "Publication" or "Termination" categories. We propose adding these categories, which would include questions taken out of other current categories, as identified in the attached redline draft. Note also that the remaining questions in the Main Issues group, an overarching category, would be addressed organically as a result of this proposed process. a) Each sub-team produces a report, which is delivered to Don by each Friday or Saturday at the latest, so it can be combined by staff with the other sub-team reports and discussed at the upcoming Tuesday Working Group teleconference. b) When the responses to the survey come in from the other constituencies, ICANN staff summarizes the responses for the Working Group. Each sub-team then analyzes the constituencies' and Working Group's responses (including majority and minority views) in its area, and delivers the result to Don by Friday or Saturday, so ICANN staff can combine it all in one document, such as an Excel file, for full Working Group review. 4. Working Group holds Consensus Call and revises final Excel file of responses to survey accordingly. 5. Draft report presenting (1) Consensus Proposals (if any); (2) Non-Consensus Proposals w/ Levels of Support; (3) Minority Views w/Levels of Support. 6. Present Report for Public Comment. This process will provide a means to circle back to the remaining Main Issues questions. Regards, Jim James L. Bikoff Silverberg, Goldman & Bikoff, LLP 1101 30th Street, NW Suite 120 Washington, DC 20007 Tel: 202-944-3303 Fax: 202-944-3306 jbikoff(a)sgbdc.com<mailto:jbikoff@sgbdc.com>

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Apologies
by Michele Neylon - Blacknight Jan. 28, 2014

Jan. 28, 2014

All Just a quick note to apologise for making you all suffer through our "on hold" music etc., during the call this afternoon. I completely forgot that it would kick in when I picked up a call on another line Hopefully that won't happen again! Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting & Colocation, Domains http://www.blacknight.co/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Locall: 1850 929 929 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Fax. +353 (0) 1 4811 763 Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845

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A few small, but significant, revisions
by Kathy Kleiman Jan. 28, 2014

Jan. 28, 2014

Hi All, Per the invitation on the call today, I would like to propose a few small but significant revisions to our charter group questions document -- mostly to clarify suggestions already made and partially included in the new bullet points. Tx to Mary and Marika for taking a close look! (and track changes used, as requested :-)) Best, Kathy

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MP3 PPSAI WG - Tuesday 28 January 2014 at 1500UTC
by Nathalie Peregrine Jan. 28, 2014

Jan. 28, 2014

Dear All, Please find the MP3 recording for the Privacy and Proxy Services Accreditation Issues PDP Working group call held on Tuesday 28 January 2014 at 15:00 UTC at: http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-ppsa-20140128-en.mp3 On page: http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#<http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#may>jan The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page: http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/ Attendees: Don Blumenthal - RySG Luc Seufer - RrSG Marie-Laure Lemineur - NPOC Michele Neylon - RrSG Volker Greimann - RrSG Griffin Barnett - IPC Justin Macy - CBUC Kathy Kleiman - RySG Jim Bikoff - IPC Graeme Bunton - RrSG Tatiana Khramstova - RrSG Nic Steinbach - RrSG David Heasley - IPC James Bladel - RrSG Susan Prosser - RrSG Kiran Malancharuvil - IPC David Cake - NCSG Todd Williams - IPC Valeriya Sherman - IPC Alex Deacon - IPC Steve Metalitz - IPC Amr Elsadr - NCUC Tobias Sattler - RrSG Kristina Rosette - IPC Gema Campillos - GAC Carlton Samuels - ALAC Paul McGrady - IPC Darcy Southwell - RrSG Ben Anderson - RrSG Billy Watenpaugh - RrSG Emily Emanual - BC Apologies: Statton Hammock - RySG Holly Raiche - ALAC Osvaldo Novoa - ISPCP Roy Balleste - NCUC Stephanie Perrin - NCUC Joe Catapano ICANN staff: Marika Konings Mary Wong Nathalie Peregrine ** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list ** Mailing list archives: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg/ Wiki page: https://community.icann.org/x/9iCfAg Thank you. Kind regards, Nathalie Peregrine Marika Konings:Welcome to the PPSAI WG Meeting of 28 January 2014 Paul McGrady:Good morning everyone from Frozen Chicago! Mike Zupke:Greetings, Paul. Bladel:@Paul, just a few hours west of you...it's not so bad today. We are already above zero! Michele Neylon:If you hear anything odd from my end it's because the building is being power washed Michele Neylon:it's like working in a car wash today Michele Neylon:http://instagram.com/p/jt0nhNmJ36/ Nathalie Peregrine:Luc Seufer has joined Michele Neylon:in case anyone doesn't believe me :) Nathalie Peregrine:Volker Greimann has joined Valeriya Sherman:David Heasley is also on the call Nathalie Peregrine:Nic Steinbach has joined Nathalie Peregrine:thank you Valeriya, noted Nathalie Peregrine:Gema Campillos is also on the call Volker Greimann:I am on Gema Campillos:Hi everybody! I´m back! I understand the letters have already been sent out. GAC members have not received them yet. I´ll brief my colleagues about the WG when the letter arrives. Nathalie Peregrine:Amr Elsadr is also on the call Amr Elsadr:dialling in now. Mary Wong 2:Thanks, Gema, for the note. We will follow up with our colleagues who support the GAC to ensure that the letter (sent to the GAC Chair) is distributed to members. Amr Elsadr:Hi. Just joined the call. Kathy Kleiman:I think we will wind up spending way too much time on definitions if we don't have an initial threshold questions... Nathalie Peregrine:Kristina Rosette has joined the AC room Nathalie Peregrine:Susan Prosser has joined the call Mary Wong 2:@James - would adding "registered" to III. (1) address your point? Bladel:Hi Mary. I'm not sure. We can talk about the "domain name used for" or the "content associated with a domain name" which is probably a website, but could be email (commercial or non-commercial) or an app, or something eelse. Mary Wong 2:@Michele, the SO/AC/SG/C responses may help the WG fine tune its work/questions further. You can also go back to them with additional questions/requests at some point if appropriate. Mary Wong 2:@James, thanks. Perhaps the group can consider adding another bullet point about this under III. (1) then? Nathalie Peregrine:Carlton Samuels has joined the AC room Carlton Samuels:Hi everybody. My apologies for the late join Graeme Bunton:Akin to a conditional survey Bladel:Maybe doesn't need to be done formally, but should be kept in mind or "flagged" when found. Nathalie Peregrine:David Cake has joinjed the call Marie-laure Lemineur:+1 Michele Amr Elsadr:@Michele: +1. Carlton Samuels:No audio to me on the A/C Michele Neylon:dial in :) Michele Neylon:also Don seems to be coming and going volume wise Carlton Samuels:Was about to try Skype to US TF :-) Mary Wong 2:@Michele, are you on AC audio or phone bridge? The latter tends to be clearer and more stable. Amr Elsadr:@Carlton. That's what I'm using. Working well. Graeme Bunton:Don sounds fine to me using the AC Audio Nathalie Peregrine:Carlton, we can dial out to you if you would rather not dial in Kathy Kleiman:Ques 1 for III. Registration: Should the WG create categories of p/p customers - or continue to support the current system in which proxy/privacy services are available to companies, noncommercial organizations and individuals? Valeriya Sherman:How and when are we planning to use the results of the WG member survey? Michele Neylon:+1 Gema Michele Neylon:on the audio Michele Neylon:not on anything else :) Marika Konings:@Valeriya - the idea would be to include these together with feedback received from SG/C/AC/SOs as input for the WG to consider in relation to each of these charter questions. Mary Wong 2:All, FYI - the date by which we requested that SO/AC/SG/Cs send us their input is Friday 28 Feb. Luc Seufer:I think Carlton ihas dialed in. Nathalie Peregrine:Carlton, I have muted your AC mic Carlton Samuels:No trouble. I'm finally in!! Kathy Kleiman:Welcome! Valeriya Sherman:Thanks @Marika and Mary. Mary Wong 2:@Steve, that is correct - the PDP Manual obligates every WG to seek SO/AC input as early as possible in its deliberations. It does not say you have to wait till they all come in before proceeding. Mary Wong 2:But one advantage of early input is of course that it can be helpful to the WG as it begins its work. Marika Konings:Identifying these sub-questions may also help the WG to identify whether there are any areas that require additional data or research. Marika Konings:as well as planning how to tackle its work (which should form the basis for the work plan) Graeme Bunton:sounds better Bladel:Much better! Susan Prosser:much better Marie-laure Lemineur:so have we reached an agreement re> Kathy' s question? Gema Campillos:I hear to you better, Don. Michele Neylon:I'll try to come back Nathalie Peregrine:the line has been muted Gema Campillos:hear you, sorry Carlton Samuels:@Steve: +1 We move it along and add input from SOs/ACs as we go along. Early input - any input would be Very Helpful and will always help the conversations towards consensus Mary Wong 2:@Marie-Laure, we will add a footnote/reference to capture Kathy's, James' and Steve's input on that and have a revised document by the next meeting. Kathy Kleiman:Great, tx Steve! Kathy Kleiman:Right, agree with Steve. Kathy Kleiman:Perfect. Marie-laure Lemineur:@steve I agree.. Kathy Kleiman:Steve: can you edit the text per the change - and we can add it as a formal ques in Section III? Carlton Samuels:@Steve: But before we say change, let's ask the questions that probe any disability or deleterious impact associated with status quo Bladel:How about this: What is the threshold for determining that a "class" or "category" of user/user should be denied from accessing these services? Kathy Kleiman:James: but is there a threshold? Gema Campillos:I have some comments, but are not related to the categories issue. May I ask them now or bring them on the mailing list? Amr Elsadr:Wether categorzation of domain name registrants should be required of accredited service providers is the charter question, isn't it? Mary Wong 2:@Gema, do raise your hand so Don can see it and you can speak. Don Blumenthal:I see Gemas Don Blumenthal:'s question. Go ahead with what you want to raise Luc Seufer:I still have faith in ENUM! Kathy Kleiman:I think we have agreemend on the threshold question: and I would be happy to accept Steve's edits... Valeriya Sherman:It would make sense for us to review and incorporate input from the surveys of the WG members before we get input from SOs/ACs on Feb 28. Might help us clarify issues/definitions, identify sub-questions and move towards consensus. Thoughts? Mary Wong 2:@Amr, that was the point Steve made initially. As mentioned we will capture these discussions in the document by way of a footnote - it may be confusing to add so many suggestions on the same point as additional questions or bullet points. Kathy Kleiman:@Mary, the proposal is for a threshold question - a Ques. #1 in III. Registration. steve metalitz:@Kathy, how about something like this: Currently, proxy/privacy services are available to companies, noncommercial organizations and individuals. Should there be any change to this aspect of the current system in the new accreditation standards? Kathy Kleiman:There seems to be convergence on the language. Graeme Bunton:Good points James Carlton Samuels:@James: +1. I agree we start at looking at the issue and impacts, decide which ones are bad for business, set a standard for accessing and suggest a pathway to access the services Amr Elsadr:@Mary: My understanding is as per Kathy's comment - changing the txt of the threshold question. Kathy Kleiman:@Steve: good wording! Mary Wong 2:@Kathy, I had thought Don had agreed to a footnote some time ago. However, if Steve and James and you agree on wording we can add this as a bullet point. indicating that it is a threshold question for III(1). Kathy Kleiman:@Mary: I think we can add it as a threshold question in III... Mary Wong 2:Or we can add it at the top as a threshold question. Mary Wong 2:Yes Kathy! :) Kathy Kleiman:Second option - tx :-) Amr Elsadr:@Kathy: +1 (to Mary's second option). It seems there is no objection as per Steve's last suggestion. Amr Elsadr:@Steve: Correct me if I'm mistaken please. :) Amr Elsadr:Are there laws regarding p/p services, or are they more focused on contact data being published on the actual website's content? Luc Seufer:@Amr not as far as know. Here, laws on hosting uses deal with hosting requirements. Kathy Kleiman:@Marika - there seems to be some ambiguity of use of "reveal" and "publish" - should I point that out on the list? Amr Elsadr:@Luc: Thanks. That's my understanding as well, but I am not an expert. :) Mary Wong 2:@Kathy, that may be something for the Reveal sub group to discuss. Mary Wong 2:(if that is how the WG decides to proceed; hence it would be helpful to decide the approach sooner rathr than later). Graeme Bunton:INFINITY! Kathy Kleiman:Wow Alice in Wonderland! Mary Wong 2:And we have multiple screens too when supporting WG calls :) Luc Seufer:Inception? IPCand NC agreeing, I knew I was dreaming Luc Seufer:;-) Amr Elsadr::) Marika Konings:@Kathy - as Mary said, developing definitions is probably something that will occur as part of the WG deliberations on these questions. Kathy Kleiman:@Marika and Mary, I think there is a place in the new bullets where the word "publish" is used in lieu of "reveal." big difference in implications so it is something i will share. Kathy Kleiman:... in upcoming comments. Paul McGrady:While it took some time, I thought today's discussion was extremely helpful. Thank you all. Volker Greimann:yes, provided it is not at 7:30 in the morning Nathalie Peregrine:Phil Marano has joined the AC room Marie-laure Lemineur:I support the idea of a F2F meeting in Singapore Amr Elsadr:@Volker: +1 Phil Marano:Very sorry to be so late, I had a meeting run long. Phil Marano:I'll listen to the recording when it is published. Mary Wong 2:Assuming the main schedule doesn't change much, Thursday morning is usually good. Mary Wong 2:That is what we used for the first meeting in Buenos Aires. Carlton Samuels:@Kathy: There is indeed a difference even in the basic grammar between 'publish' and 'reveal'. In this context this is even of greater importance to respect the difference in meaning. Tobias Sattler:@Volker: +1 Amr Elsadr:@Mary: There were some WG meetings at 07:30 in BA. They didn't attract as much participation as we would hope. Mary Wong 2:@Amr, same thing for evenings :( Bladel:Wait...isn't PIR a sponsor? Amr Elsadr:I know scheduling is not easy, but WG f2f is important. Tobias Sattler:Thank you Amr Elsadr:Thanks Don. Bye. Graeme Bunton:Thanks Don Justin Macy:Thanks! Kathy Kleiman:@ Carlton: I'll put out more details soon. Marie-laure Lemineur:tx Don and all Luc Seufer:Thanks, bye David Cake:thanks all Carlton Samuels:Thanks Don. Thanks all. Stimulating discussion Susan Prosser:thanks Don.

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