Network Solutions Sued For Defrauding Millions - ICANN also named in Class Action
For your information HYPERLINK "http://sev.prnewswire.com/computer-electronics/20080225/LAM06125022008-1.ht ml"http://sev.prnewswire.com/computer-electronics/20080225/LAM06125022008-1. html LOS ANGELES, Feb. 25 /PRNewswire/ -- Network Solutions has forced millions of people to buy Internet domain names from them instead of cheaper competitors through a scheme that's netted the firm millions of dollars, a federal class action lawsuit filed today by Kabateck Brown Kellner, LLP states. ICANN, whose policies facilitate the scheme, is also named in the suit, filed in U.S. District Court, Central District of California. "Imagine if you asked a car dealer if they had a black convertible and were then forced to buy the car from them. Would you get a good deal? Each time someone asks Network Solutions about a domain name, the firm creates a monopoly for itself, forcing consumers to pay the price they demand," said Brian Kabateck, lead counsel in the class action and Kabateck Brown Kellner's Managing Partner. Whenever someone searches for the availability of a domain name through Network Solutions' website, the company immediately registers the name for itself, preventing other companies from selling it and forcing consumers to pay Network Solutions' expensive fees. If a consumer were to go to another, cheaper site to register the name, they would find the name is "unavailable." Consumers are never informed that inquiring as to a name's availability through Network Solutions results in the company holding a monopoly on selling that name. This allows Network Solutions to continue charging substantially higher prices for domain name registration. Network Solutions charged $34.99 to register the name sought by this suit's lead plaintiff. A competitor would have charged $9.99. Network Solutions' scheme is made possible by ICANN. ICANN allows companies that sell domain names to avoid paying registration fees for names cancelled within five days. Thus, Network Solutions can defraud customers at no cost to itself. ICANN is aware that Network Solutions is abusing this policy and yet continues to facilitate its actions. ICANN is the international organization, headquartered in Marina Del Rey, CA, that regulates domain names and other Internet protocols. Kabateck Brown Kellner is one of the nation's foremost consumer law firms. Its clients have won more than $750 million against Google, Yahoo!, Farmer's Insurance, Eli Lilly and others. As a plaintiff's-only firm, Kabateck Brown Kellner is always on the consumers' side. Sébastien Bachollet Président HYPERLINK "mailto:sebastien.bachollet@isoc.fr"sebastien.bachollet@isoc.fr HYPERLINK "http://www.egeni.org"www.egeni.org HYPERLINK "http://www.isoc.fr"www.isoc.fr No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1298 - Release Date: 25/02/2008 20:45
Interesting article, Sebastian! What should ALAC's position be? Support this? Or keep distance? izumi 2008/2/27, Sébastien Bachollet <sebastien.bachollet@isoc.fr>:
For your information
http://sev.prnewswire.com/computer-electronics/20080225/LAM06125022008-1.htm...
LOS ANGELES, Feb. 25 /PRNewswire/ -- Network Solutions has forced millions of people to buy Internet domain names from them instead of cheaper competitors through a scheme that's netted the firm millions of dollars, a federal class action lawsuit filed today by Kabateck Brown Kellner, LLP states. ICANN, whose policies facilitate the scheme, is also named in the suit, filed in U.S. District Court, Central District of California.
"Imagine if you asked a car dealer if they had a black convertible and were then forced to buy the car from them. Would you get a good deal? Each time someone asks Network Solutions about a domain name, the firm creates a monopoly for itself, forcing consumers to pay the price they demand," said Brian Kabateck, lead counsel in the class action and Kabateck Brown Kellner's Managing Partner.
Whenever someone searches for the availability of a domain name through Network Solutions' website, the company immediately registers the name for itself, preventing other companies from selling it and forcing consumers to pay Network Solutions' expensive fees.
If a consumer were to go to another, cheaper site to register the name, they would find the name is "unavailable." Consumers are never informed that inquiring as to a name's availability through Network Solutions results in the company holding a monopoly on selling that name.
This allows Network Solutions to continue charging substantially higher prices for domain name registration. Network Solutions charged $34.99 to register the name sought by this suit's lead plaintiff. A competitor would have charged $9.99.
Network Solutions' scheme is made possible by ICANN. ICANN allows companies that sell domain names to avoid paying registration fees for names cancelled within five days. Thus, Network Solutions can defraud customers at no cost to itself.
ICANN is aware that Network Solutions is abusing this policy and yet continues to facilitate its actions.
ICANN is the international organization, headquartered in Marina Del Rey, CA, that regulates domain names and other Internet protocols.
Kabateck Brown Kellner is one of the nation's foremost consumer law firms. Its clients have won more than $750 million against Google, Yahoo!, Farmer's Insurance, Eli Lilly and others. As a plaintiff's-only firm, Kabateck Brown Kellner is always on the consumers' side.
Sébastien Bachollet
Président
sebastien.bachollet@isoc.fr
www.egeni.org
www.isoc.fr
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_______________________________________________ ALAC mailing list ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org
At-Large Official Site: http://www.alac.icann.org ALAC Independent: http://www.icannalac.org
-- >> Izumi Aizu << Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita Kumon Center, Tama University, Tokyo Japan * * * * * << Writing the Future of the History >> www.anr.org
Hi everyone This was discussed by the At Large to some extent in Delhi - maybe Alan or Nick might have the notes to remind us what the ALAC discussed and any conclusions drawn/decisions made about NetSol's front running? re the lawsuit I am not sure that the ALAC can do anything with regard to the lawsuit - as it doesn't exist on its own but as a part of ICANN, what standing would it have in a class action lawsuit against ICANN? Jacqueline Izumi AIZU wrote:
Interesting article, Sebastian! What should ALAC's position be? Support this? Or keep distance?
izumi
2008/2/27, Sébastien Bachollet <sebastien.bachollet@isoc.fr>:
For your information
http://sev.prnewswire.com/computer-electronics/20080225/LAM06125022008-1.htm...
LOS ANGELES, Feb. 25 /PRNewswire/ -- Network Solutions has forced millions of people to buy Internet domain names from them instead of cheaper competitors through a scheme that's netted the firm millions of dollars, a federal class action lawsuit filed today by Kabateck Brown Kellner, LLP states. ICANN, whose policies facilitate the scheme, is also named in the suit, filed in U.S. District Court, Central District of California.
"Imagine if you asked a car dealer if they had a black convertible and were then forced to buy the car from them. Would you get a good deal? Each time someone asks Network Solutions about a domain name, the firm creates a monopoly for itself, forcing consumers to pay the price they demand," said Brian Kabateck, lead counsel in the class action and Kabateck Brown Kellner's Managing Partner.
Whenever someone searches for the availability of a domain name through Network Solutions' website, the company immediately registers the name for itself, preventing other companies from selling it and forcing consumers to pay Network Solutions' expensive fees.
If a consumer were to go to another, cheaper site to register the name, they would find the name is "unavailable." Consumers are never informed that inquiring as to a name's availability through Network Solutions results in the company holding a monopoly on selling that name.
This allows Network Solutions to continue charging substantially higher prices for domain name registration. Network Solutions charged $34.99 to register the name sought by this suit's lead plaintiff. A competitor would have charged $9.99.
Network Solutions' scheme is made possible by ICANN. ICANN allows companies that sell domain names to avoid paying registration fees for names cancelled within five days. Thus, Network Solutions can defraud customers at no cost to itself.
ICANN is aware that Network Solutions is abusing this policy and yet continues to facilitate its actions.
ICANN is the international organization, headquartered in Marina Del Rey, CA, that regulates domain names and other Internet protocols.
Kabateck Brown Kellner is one of the nation's foremost consumer law firms. Its clients have won more than $750 million against Google, Yahoo!, Farmer's Insurance, Eli Lilly and others. As a plaintiff's-only firm, Kabateck Brown Kellner is always on the consumers' side.
Sébastien Bachollet
Président
sebastien.bachollet@isoc.fr
www.egeni.org
www.isoc.fr
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_______________________________________________ ALAC mailing list ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org
At-Large Official Site: http://www.alac.icann.org ALAC Independent: http://www.icannalac.org
Izumi and all, I psoted this article yeaterday. However the ALAC would be WISE to supprot this legal action IMO. Failure to do so will be exposing users to other and further abuses. Izumi AIZU wrote:
Interesting article, Sebastian! What should ALAC's position be? Support this? Or keep distance?
izumi
2008/2/27, Sébastien Bachollet <sebastien.bachollet@isoc.fr>:
For your information
http://sev.prnewswire.com/computer-electronics/20080225/LAM06125022008-1.htm...
LOS ANGELES, Feb. 25 /PRNewswire/ -- Network Solutions has forced millions of people to buy Internet domain names from them instead of cheaper competitors through a scheme that's netted the firm millions of dollars, a federal class action lawsuit filed today by Kabateck Brown Kellner, LLP states. ICANN, whose policies facilitate the scheme, is also named in the suit, filed in U.S. District Court, Central District of California.
"Imagine if you asked a car dealer if they had a black convertible and were then forced to buy the car from them. Would you get a good deal? Each time someone asks Network Solutions about a domain name, the firm creates a monopoly for itself, forcing consumers to pay the price they demand," said Brian Kabateck, lead counsel in the class action and Kabateck Brown Kellner's Managing Partner.
Whenever someone searches for the availability of a domain name through Network Solutions' website, the company immediately registers the name for itself, preventing other companies from selling it and forcing consumers to pay Network Solutions' expensive fees.
If a consumer were to go to another, cheaper site to register the name, they would find the name is "unavailable." Consumers are never informed that inquiring as to a name's availability through Network Solutions results in the company holding a monopoly on selling that name.
This allows Network Solutions to continue charging substantially higher prices for domain name registration. Network Solutions charged $34.99 to register the name sought by this suit's lead plaintiff. A competitor would have charged $9.99.
Network Solutions' scheme is made possible by ICANN. ICANN allows companies that sell domain names to avoid paying registration fees for names cancelled within five days. Thus, Network Solutions can defraud customers at no cost to itself.
ICANN is aware that Network Solutions is abusing this policy and yet continues to facilitate its actions.
ICANN is the international organization, headquartered in Marina Del Rey, CA, that regulates domain names and other Internet protocols.
Kabateck Brown Kellner is one of the nation's foremost consumer law firms. Its clients have won more than $750 million against Google, Yahoo!, Farmer's Insurance, Eli Lilly and others. As a plaintiff's-only firm, Kabateck Brown Kellner is always on the consumers' side.
Sébastien Bachollet
Président
sebastien.bachollet@isoc.fr
www.egeni.org
www.isoc.fr
No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1298 - Release Date: 25/02/2008 20:45
_______________________________________________ ALAC mailing list ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org
At-Large Official Site: http://www.alac.icann.org ALAC Independent: http://www.icannalac.org
-- >> Izumi Aizu <<
Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita Kumon Center, Tama University, Tokyo Japan * * * * * << Writing the Future of the History >> www.anr.org
_______________________________________________ ALAC mailing list ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org
At-Large Official Site: http://www.alac.icann.org ALAC Independent: http://www.icannalac.org
Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 277k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827
How can ALAC which only exists as a part of ICANN (Advisory Committee) support a legal action against ICANN? As a non-USian and a non-lawyer, it seems strange to me, but I am willing to be enlightened by the US lawyers (as it is a US legal matter) Jacqueline Jeffrey A. Williams wrote:
Izumi and all,
I psoted this article yeaterday. However the ALAC would be WISE to supprot this legal action IMO. Failure to do so will be exposing users to other and further abuses.
Izumi AIZU wrote:
Interesting article, Sebastian! What should ALAC's position be? Support this? Or keep distance?
izumi
2008/2/27, Sébastien Bachollet <sebastien.bachollet@isoc.fr>:
For your information
http://sev.prnewswire.com/computer-electronics/20080225/LAM06125022008-1.htm...
LOS ANGELES, Feb. 25 /PRNewswire/ -- Network Solutions has forced millions of people to buy Internet domain names from them instead of cheaper competitors through a scheme that's netted the firm millions of dollars, a federal class action lawsuit filed today by Kabateck Brown Kellner, LLP states. ICANN, whose policies facilitate the scheme, is also named in the suit, filed in U.S. District Court, Central District of California.
"Imagine if you asked a car dealer if they had a black convertible and were then forced to buy the car from them. Would you get a good deal? Each time someone asks Network Solutions about a domain name, the firm creates a monopoly for itself, forcing consumers to pay the price they demand," said Brian Kabateck, lead counsel in the class action and Kabateck Brown Kellner's Managing Partner.
Whenever someone searches for the availability of a domain name through Network Solutions' website, the company immediately registers the name for itself, preventing other companies from selling it and forcing consumers to pay Network Solutions' expensive fees.
If a consumer were to go to another, cheaper site to register the name, they would find the name is "unavailable." Consumers are never informed that inquiring as to a name's availability through Network Solutions results in the company holding a monopoly on selling that name.
This allows Network Solutions to continue charging substantially higher prices for domain name registration. Network Solutions charged $34.99 to register the name sought by this suit's lead plaintiff. A competitor would have charged $9.99.
Network Solutions' scheme is made possible by ICANN. ICANN allows companies that sell domain names to avoid paying registration fees for names cancelled within five days. Thus, Network Solutions can defraud customers at no cost to itself.
ICANN is aware that Network Solutions is abusing this policy and yet continues to facilitate its actions.
ICANN is the international organization, headquartered in Marina Del Rey, CA, that regulates domain names and other Internet protocols.
Kabateck Brown Kellner is one of the nation's foremost consumer law firms. Its clients have won more than $750 million against Google, Yahoo!, Farmer's Insurance, Eli Lilly and others. As a plaintiff's-only firm, Kabateck Brown Kellner is always on the consumers' side.
Sébastien Bachollet
Président
sebastien.bachollet@isoc.fr
www.egeni.org
www.isoc.fr
No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1298 - Release Date: 25/02/2008 20:45
_______________________________________________ ALAC mailing list ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org
At-Large Official Site: http://www.alac.icann.org ALAC Independent: http://www.icannalac.org
-- >> Izumi Aizu <<
Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita Kumon Center, Tama University, Tokyo Japan * * * * * << Writing the Future of the History >> www.anr.org
_______________________________________________ ALAC mailing list ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org
At-Large Official Site: http://www.alac.icann.org ALAC Independent: http://www.icannalac.org
Regards,
Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 277k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln
"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827
_______________________________________________ ALAC mailing list ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org
At-Large Official Site: http://www.alac.icann.org ALAC Independent: http://www.icannalac.org
Jacqueline and all my friends, As a organ of ICANN the ALAC cannot do so. However as individual users that may have been effected which are those that are registrants, any number of ALAC members can do so. If enough do so decide to enjoin said legal action or file separately and/or collectively on similar grounds, than the ALAC has "Effectively" decided in the majority or to the extent of the number of members whom have filed or enjoined to support this legal action. "Jacqueline A. Morris" wrote:
How can ALAC which only exists as a part of ICANN (Advisory Committee) support a legal action against ICANN? As a non-USian and a non-lawyer, it seems strange to me, but I am willing to be enlightened by the US lawyers (as it is a US legal matter) Jacqueline Jeffrey A. Williams wrote:
Izumi and all,
I psoted this article yeaterday. However the ALAC would be WISE to supprot this legal action IMO. Failure to do so will be exposing users to other and further abuses.
Izumi AIZU wrote:
Interesting article, Sebastian! What should ALAC's position be? Support this? Or keep distance?
izumi
2008/2/27, Sébastien Bachollet <sebastien.bachollet@isoc.fr>:
For your information
http://sev.prnewswire.com/computer-electronics/20080225/LAM06125022008-1.htm...
LOS ANGELES, Feb. 25 /PRNewswire/ -- Network Solutions has forced millions of people to buy Internet domain names from them instead of cheaper competitors through a scheme that's netted the firm millions of dollars, a federal class action lawsuit filed today by Kabateck Brown Kellner, LLP states. ICANN, whose policies facilitate the scheme, is also named in the suit, filed in U.S. District Court, Central District of California.
"Imagine if you asked a car dealer if they had a black convertible and were then forced to buy the car from them. Would you get a good deal? Each time someone asks Network Solutions about a domain name, the firm creates a monopoly for itself, forcing consumers to pay the price they demand," said Brian Kabateck, lead counsel in the class action and Kabateck Brown Kellner's Managing Partner.
Whenever someone searches for the availability of a domain name through Network Solutions' website, the company immediately registers the name for itself, preventing other companies from selling it and forcing consumers to pay Network Solutions' expensive fees.
If a consumer were to go to another, cheaper site to register the name, they would find the name is "unavailable." Consumers are never informed that inquiring as to a name's availability through Network Solutions results in the company holding a monopoly on selling that name.
This allows Network Solutions to continue charging substantially higher prices for domain name registration. Network Solutions charged $34.99 to register the name sought by this suit's lead plaintiff. A competitor would have charged $9.99.
Network Solutions' scheme is made possible by ICANN. ICANN allows companies that sell domain names to avoid paying registration fees for names cancelled within five days. Thus, Network Solutions can defraud customers at no cost to itself.
ICANN is aware that Network Solutions is abusing this policy and yet continues to facilitate its actions.
ICANN is the international organization, headquartered in Marina Del Rey, CA, that regulates domain names and other Internet protocols.
Kabateck Brown Kellner is one of the nation's foremost consumer law firms. Its clients have won more than $750 million against Google, Yahoo!, Farmer's Insurance, Eli Lilly and others. As a plaintiff's-only firm, Kabateck Brown Kellner is always on the consumers' side.
Sébastien Bachollet
Président
sebastien.bachollet@isoc.fr
www.egeni.org
www.isoc.fr
No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1298 - Release Date: 25/02/2008 20:45
_______________________________________________ ALAC mailing list ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org
At-Large Official Site: http://www.alac.icann.org ALAC Independent: http://www.icannalac.org
-- >> Izumi Aizu <<
Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita Kumon Center, Tama University, Tokyo Japan * * * * * << Writing the Future of the History >> www.anr.org
_______________________________________________ ALAC mailing list ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org
At-Large Official Site: http://www.alac.icann.org ALAC Independent: http://www.icannalac.org
Regards,
Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 277k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln
"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827
Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 277k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827
Sébastien Bachollet wrote:
Network Solutions' scheme is made possible by ICANN. ICANN allows companies that sell domain names to avoid paying registration fees for names cancelled within five days. Thus, Network Solutions can defraud customers at no cost to itself.
On one hand, I would love nothing better than to have ICANN found partially responsible for this mess by allowing the AGP to persist. If the risk of legal exposure causes ICANN to yank the AGP over the howls of registries and registrars, that suits me just fine. (I am aware that there may be certain benefits to the AGP; however they are massively outweighed by demonstrated misuse.) On the other hand, it does not speak well to ICANN's ongoing public consultation process if courts are proven able to accomplish what internal diplomacy can not. - Evan
Evan and all, Diplomacy in and of itself solves nothing, never has. Action that works is the only internal method of solutions. Ergo, if the courts can effect a actual action that works, than unfortunately I am in support of doing so. It has been clear for years that internal discussions more often than not with ICANN Bod and staff, do not address the problems as they occur or at all. Of course with phoney Email addresses, cloesed lists, closed meetings, and far too many discussion lists, ICANN has made in part, it's own mess. However they were warned about this aspect of ICANN's many problems time and time again for years, but those warnings went either ignored or dismissed for whatever reason(s). To me this all boils down to poor leadership from the very beginning of ICANN. Evan Leibovitch wrote:
Sébastien Bachollet wrote:
Network Solutions' scheme is made possible by ICANN. ICANN allows companies that sell domain names to avoid paying registration fees for names cancelled within five days. Thus, Network Solutions can defraud customers at no cost to itself.
On one hand, I would love nothing better than to have ICANN found partially responsible for this mess by allowing the AGP to persist. If the risk of legal exposure causes ICANN to yank the AGP over the howls of registries and registrars, that suits me just fine.
(I am aware that there may be certain benefits to the AGP; however they are massively outweighed by demonstrated misuse.)
On the other hand, it does not speak well to ICANN's ongoing public consultation process if courts are proven able to accomplish what internal diplomacy can not.
- Evan
_______________________________________________ ALAC mailing list ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org
At-Large Official Site: http://www.alac.icann.org ALAC Independent: http://www.icannalac.org
Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 277k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827
All before you go either way, you should get independent technical advice and legal advice. Then form your opinion. Get both side of the story and do not jump the gun. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Franck Martin franck.martin@gmail.com http://www.peachymango.org/ "Toute connaissance est une réponse à une question" G. Bachelard
I agree in principle - to hear from all sides, and then make a sound judgement based on our mission - to reflect global individual users voices on this issue and within ICANN's mandate. If we are part of ICANN decision making process and are on the Board of ICANN, yes, we are very much responsible for the decisions it made, but if we are an advisory, that is, to some degree, different. In any case, we should consider this case on our own merit, and if we think ICANN has made a mistake, we should not hesitate to say so with firm material. BUT if not, we should not just jump in. izumi 2008/2/27, Franck Martin <franck.martin@gmail.com>:
All before you go either way, you should get independent technical advice and legal advice.
Then form your opinion. Get both side of the story and do not jump the gun.
-- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Franck Martin franck.martin@gmail.com http://www.peachymango.org/ "Toute connaissance est une réponse à une question" G. Bachelard _______________________________________________ ALAC mailing list ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org
At-Large Official Site: http://www.alac.icann.org ALAC Independent: http://www.icannalac.org
-- >> Izumi Aizu << Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita Kumon Center, Tama University, Tokyo Japan * * * * * << Writing the Future of the History >> www.anr.org
My feeling is that ALAC does not exists. I think only the ALS and may be the RALO have a legal setup, as such can be involved in legal proceedings. Also, I would query if the ALAC appointees are protected against lawsuit during the course of their business at ALAC. I fear the legal route may be forbidden to ALAC, but it would not stop ALAC to release publicly an opinion on the matter. Cheers On 27/02/2008, Izumi AIZU <iza@anr.org> wrote:
I agree in principle - to hear from all sides, and then make a sound judgement based on our mission - to reflect global individual users voices on this issue and within ICANN's mandate.
If we are part of ICANN decision making process and are on the Board of ICANN, yes, we are very much responsible for the decisions it made, but if we are an advisory, that is, to some degree, different. In any case, we should consider this case on our own merit, and if we think ICANN has made a mistake, we should not hesitate to say so with firm material. BUT if not, we should not just jump in.
izumi
2008/2/27, Franck Martin <franck.martin@gmail.com>:
All before you go either way, you should get independent technical advice and legal advice.
Then form your opinion. Get both side of the story and do not jump the gun.
-- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Franck Martin franck.martin@gmail.com http://www.peachymango.org/ "Toute connaissance est une réponse à une question" G. Bachelard
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--
>> Izumi Aizu <<
Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita Kumon Center, Tama University, Tokyo Japan * * * * * << Writing the Future of the History >> www.anr.org
-- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Franck Martin franck.martin@gmail.com http://www.peachymango.org/ "Toute connaissance est une réponse à une question" G. Bachelard
Izumi and all my friends, Well it is clear that the ALAC IS an organ of ICANN. The rest of your remarks and comments do not apply as you state them accordingly. However the ALAC is not responsible for ICANN's complicity as the ALAC has elected no board members, nor any GNSO members. This grave and ill considered judgment is rightly that of the ICANN Board and staff. The buck stops there regardless of where from within ICANN it originated... However again, let me be very clear as I have already questioned, it may very be that DOC/NTIA as oversight authority under the MOU, is also complicit as well though they are not "currently" named in this legal action. My guess is that in the E-Discovery phase of this legal action that some of the GNSO and its Constituency members will be named, their PC's confiscated for forensic evidence investigation, and remanded to testify as witnesses. I have been encouraging our members that were, or may have been damaged by ICANN's breach of fiduciary responsibility to come forward with any and all information or evidence in respect to this action or related to same lest they be surprised in such a way as to be a disruption to their lives accordingly. I myself am compiling an archive of any and all Emails I have sent, and I archive all of them related to ICANN, to DVD and offering that data to the current plaintiff in the case that data may be relevant. This would include all said data related to RegistryFly and GoDaddy. Izumi AIZU wrote:
I agree in principle - to hear from all sides, and then make a sound judgement based on our mission - to reflect global individual users voices on this issue and within ICANN's mandate.
If we are part of ICANN decision making process and are on the Board of ICANN, yes, we are very much responsible for the decisions it made, but if we are an advisory, that is, to some degree, different. In any case, we should consider this case on our own merit, and if we think ICANN has made a mistake, we should not hesitate to say so with firm material. BUT if not, we should not just jump in.
izumi
2008/2/27, Franck Martin <franck.martin@gmail.com>:
All before you go either way, you should get independent technical advice and legal advice.
Then form your opinion. Get both side of the story and do not jump the gun.
-- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Franck Martin franck.martin@gmail.com http://www.peachymango.org/ "Toute connaissance est une réponse à une question" G. Bachelard _______________________________________________ ALAC mailing list ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org
At-Large Official Site: http://www.alac.icann.org ALAC Independent: http://www.icannalac.org
-- >> Izumi Aizu <<
Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita Kumon Center, Tama University, Tokyo Japan * * * * * << Writing the Future of the History >> www.anr.org
Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 277k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827
All before you go either way, you should get independent technical advice and legal advice.
I checked PACER, the systems that US courts use to manage case documents, and this case hasn't even been entered yet. Until we can see what the complaint says, one can't tell what NetSol and ICANN are alleged to be doing. On the other hand, we can certainly decry NetSol's admitted frontrunning as yet another anti-consumer abuse that ICANN's ill-considered AGP enables. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Information Superhighwayman wanna-be, http://www.johnlevine.com, ex-Mayor "More Wiener schnitzel, please", said Tom, revealingly.
Over the weekend, the Pakistan Telecom Authority ordered Pakistan's ISPs to block YouTube. The ISPs shared BGP (Border gateway protocol) data, which advertised routes to nowhere for YouTube. But, the routes were "accidentally" shared with a company in Hong Kong. Because the routes were very concise, and because no one bothered to see if they were accurate, routers all over accepted the routes as the best path to YouTube. The following article gives more information, including the suggestion that secure BGP be adopted. http://www.macworld.com/article/132256/2008/02/networking.html This article http://www.9wsyr.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=3786d02a-34e5-4f04-ad9... provides more information, including this quote: "Misrouting occurs every year or so among the world's Internet carriers, usually as a result of typos or other errors, Underwood said. In a more severe example, a Turkish telecom provider in 2004 started advertising that it was the best route to all of the Internet, causing widespread outages for many Web sites over several hours. "Nobody ran any viruses or worms or malicious code. This is just the way the Internet works. And it's not very secure or reliable," Underwood said, adding that there is no real solution to the problem on the table. While most route hijacking is unintentional, some Yahoo networks were apparently taken over a few years ago to distribute spam. "To be honest, there's not a single thing preventing this from happening to E-Trade, or Bank of America, or the FBI, or the White House, or the Clinton campaign," Underwood said. "I think it's a useful moment for people to decide just how important it is that we fix problems like this." How stable is the Internet, anyway? Perhaps ALAC would like to discuss. Jean Armour Polly
Dear all, Thank you, Jean Armour to remind this situation. IMHO this kind of issue shows the need for the ALAC to liaise with, or to have @large representatives at the IETF, and to exercise QA advice and control on Internet protocols, solutions and architecture, the same as it to be an ICANN advisor. The best way for this would be through a formal MoU with the IETF. We have to understand that one way or another the IGF/WSIS is going to do this too (possibly through a WSIS Technical Forum). Then the ALAC will be able to fully play its role of ICANN community interface with the Members of the IGF/Enhanced Cooperation. At that time it would very good for the ALAC credibility to show some results or at least established debate. The point you do today, seems to be also a good reasons for ALAC to get informed/investigate about the ROAP IETF/IAB issue (ROuting and Adressing Problem) leading to a possible disruption of the routing due to IPv6 management. On a more general perspective I would suggest that ALAC could start from the US cyberspace review and consider the status of the US cyberspace strategy which are probably the most active, but probably late. The reference is http://white-house.giv/pcipb. BGP is one of the priorities assigned by this strategy devised after 9/11. It was more than 5 years ago. jfc At 03:39 27/02/2008, Jean Armour Polly wrote:
Over the weekend, the Pakistan Telecom Authority ordered Pakistan's ISPs to block YouTube. The ISPs shared BGP (Border gateway protocol) data, which advertised routes to nowhere for YouTube.
But, the routes were "accidentally" shared with a company in Hong Kong. Because the routes were very concise, and because no one bothered to see if they were accurate, routers all over accepted the routes as the best path to YouTube.
The following article gives more information, including the suggestion that secure BGP be adopted. http://www.macworld.com/article/132256/2008/02/networking.html
This article http://www.9wsyr.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=3786d02a-34e5-4f04-ad9... provides more information, including this quote: "Misrouting occurs every year or so among the world's Internet carriers, usually as a result of typos or other errors, Underwood said. In a more severe example, a Turkish telecom provider in 2004 started advertising that it was the best route to all of the Internet, causing widespread outages for many Web sites over several hours.
"Nobody ran any viruses or worms or malicious code. This is just the way the Internet works. And it's not very secure or reliable," Underwood said, adding that there is no real solution to the problem on the table.
While most route hijacking is unintentional, some Yahoo networks were apparently taken over a few years ago to distribute spam. "To be honest, there's not a single thing preventing this from happening to E-Trade, or Bank of America, or the FBI, or the White House, or the Clinton campaign," Underwood said. "I think it's a useful moment for people to decide just how important it is that we fix problems like this."
How stable is the Internet, anyway? Perhaps ALAC would like to discuss.
Jean Armour Polly _______________________________________________ ALAC mailing list ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org
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Jean Armour Polly wrote:
Over the weekend, the Pakistan Telecom Authority ordered Pakistan's ISPs to block YouTube. The ISPs shared BGP (Border gateway protocol) data, which advertised routes to nowhere for YouTube. [...]
How stable is the Internet, anyway? Perhaps ALAC would like to discuss. I question whether ICANN -- and thus ALAC -- has a role in this.
I've always been conscious of vision-bloat, and we have a hard enough time churning policy that IS relevant to ICANN. The Pakistan issue, so far as I can tell, is one of abuse of the routing system, not of fraudulent or manipulative abuse of domain names. ICANN is not IGF or IETF or WSIS; its mandate is fairly specific. Unless there is a direct relevance to ICANN policy, I don't think this is a useful forum to debate the Pakistani actions. - Evan
Evan and all my friends, Sorry Evan the IETF IS part of the ICANN structure, and the IAB and IESG are part of the IETF structure. See:http://www.icann.org/structure/ Evan Leibovitch wrote:
Jean Armour Polly wrote:
Over the weekend, the Pakistan Telecom Authority ordered Pakistan's ISPs to block YouTube. The ISPs shared BGP (Border gateway protocol) data, which advertised routes to nowhere for YouTube. [...]
How stable is the Internet, anyway? Perhaps ALAC would like to discuss. I question whether ICANN -- and thus ALAC -- has a role in this.
I've always been conscious of vision-bloat, and we have a hard enough time churning policy that IS relevant to ICANN. The Pakistan issue, so far as I can tell, is one of abuse of the routing system, not of fraudulent or manipulative abuse of domain names.
ICANN is not IGF or IETF or WSIS; its mandate is fairly specific. Unless there is a direct relevance to ICANN policy, I don't think this is a useful forum to debate the Pakistani actions.
- Evan
Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 277k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827
Hi Evan-- this isn't about whether or not Pakistan censored the Internet. Clearly, that's outside ICANN's mission. But Internet stability certainly ICANN's mission. In fact the very first sentence on the ICANN "About" page is "To reach another person on the Internet you have to type an address into your computer - a name or a number. That address has to be unique so computers know where to find each other. ICANN coordinates these unique identifiers across the world. Without that coordination we wouldn't have one global Internet." If 2/3rds of the Internet couldn't get to a particular site, I'd have to ask if ICANN should not be looking at that. best, Jean Armour Polly At 1:28 AM -0500 2/27/08, Evan Leibovitch recently said:
Jean Armour Polly wrote:
Over the weekend, the Pakistan Telecom Authority ordered Pakistan's ISPs to block YouTube. The ISPs shared BGP (Border gateway protocol) data, which advertised routes to nowhere for YouTube. [...]
How stable is the Internet, anyway? Perhaps ALAC would like to discuss. I question whether ICANN -- and thus ALAC -- has a role in this.
I've always been conscious of vision-bloat, and we have a hard enough time churning policy that IS relevant to ICANN. The Pakistan issue, so far as I can tell, is one of abuse of the routing system, not of fraudulent or manipulative abuse of domain names.
ICANN is not IGF or IETF or WSIS; its mandate is fairly specific. Unless there is a direct relevance to ICANN policy, I don't think this is a useful forum to debate the Pakistani actions.
- Evan
But Internet stability certainly ICANN's mission.
It is? Not in my opinion. ICANN's mission is much narrower. Focussed on coordination of certain global identifiers. To be even more clear, a key word is "coordination". The main part of that system where "Internet stability" comes in is some parts of the DNS (e.g., TLDs and the root zone). It is not ICANN's mission to deal with every aspect of Internet security or stability, and the Pakistan YouTube incident is far out of scope (or competence/ability) for ICANN to get involved. Thomas
It is not ICANN's mission to deal with every aspect of Internet security or stability, and the Pakistan YouTube incident is far out of scope (or competence/ability) for ICANN to get involved.
You beat me to it. The only tangential connection that ICANN has to routing is that IANA hands out the IP addresses and ASN numbers that routing uses. (The RIRs do the day to day work of assigning them to networks.) The lack of security in BGP is a well known issue which networks will address when the pain level gets high enough. ICANN can't deal with the matters it does control. Let's worry about those. R's, John
Thomas Narten wrote:
It is not ICANN's mission to deal with every aspect of Internet security or stability, and the Pakistan YouTube incident is far out of scope (or competence/ability) for ICANN to get involved.
Agree. Another case that comes to my mind is the cut of the undersea cable earlier this month: it affected connectivity, but was not in ICANN's scope either. Cheers, Roberto
Agree Thomas . ICANN's real mission is hardly understood in all of its essence. I believe that Paul Levans still has some more work to do in this field, clarifying more and more which issues are and are not under ICANN's "coordination". It is an endless task but needs to be done. rgs Vanda Scartezini Polo Consultores Associados Alameda Santos 1470 #1407 Tel - +55113266.6253 Mob- +55118181.1464 vanda@uol.com.br Before print think about the Environment "The information contained in this message - and attached files - is restricted, and its confidentiality protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this message and notify the sender immediately. Please be advised that the improper use of the aforementioned information will create grounds for legal action." "As informações existentes nesta mensagem e nos arquivos anexados são para uso restrito, com sigilo protegido por lei. Caso não seja o destinatário, favor apagar esta mensagem e notificar o remetente. O uso impróprio das informações desta mensagem será tratado conforme a legislação em vigor." -----Mensagem original----- De: alac-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:alac-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] Em nome de Thomas Narten Enviada em: quarta-feira, 27 de fevereiro de 2008 11:47 Para: Jean Armour Polly Cc: At-Large Worldwide Assunto: Re: [At-Large] Pakistan YouTube Block affected wider Internet
But Internet stability certainly ICANN's mission.
It is? Not in my opinion. ICANN's mission is much narrower. Focussed on coordination of certain global identifiers. To be even more clear, a key word is "coordination". The main part of that system where "Internet stability" comes in is some parts of the DNS (e.g., TLDs and the root zone). It is not ICANN's mission to deal with every aspect of Internet security or stability, and the Pakistan YouTube incident is far out of scope (or competence/ability) for ICANN to get involved. Thomas _______________________________________________ ALAC mailing list ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org At-Large Official Site: http://www.alac.icann.org ALAC Independent: http://www.icannalac.org
Thomas and all my friends, Ok, "Coordinate", I shall not quibble over the nuance which is of questionable difference or value. In any event, ICANN hasn't "Coordinated" with Pakistan very well now has it? Seems not. And that is of course, not at all surprising, but is rather a demonstration of it's weak leadership and judgment by same. Thomas Narten wrote:
But Internet stability certainly ICANN's mission.
It is? Not in my opinion.
ICANN's mission is much narrower. Focussed on coordination of certain global identifiers. To be even more clear, a key word is "coordination".
The main part of that system where "Internet stability" comes in is some parts of the DNS (e.g., TLDs and the root zone).
It is not ICANN's mission to deal with every aspect of Internet security or stability, and the Pakistan YouTube incident is far out of scope (or competence/ability) for ICANN to get involved.
Thomas
Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 277k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827
Jean and all my friends, I disagree, ICANN is International Corporation of Assigned Names and Numbers, and this is a technical coordination issue which is squarely/centerally in ICANN's mission and responsibility. ICANN isn't however at fault here, but it can cut the ccTLD out of the Root Servers routing tables to influence Pakistan to discontinue this activity. Further however, YouTube/Google could have been much more sensitive to Pakistans social structure and practices as well, but obviously it is not. Shame on YouTube/Google. Hopefully the DOC/NTIA will council Vint and YouTube/Google appropriately, and soon as well as in the sternest of tone and manner! Jean Armour Polly wrote:
Hi Evan-- this isn't about whether or not Pakistan censored the Internet. Clearly, that's outside ICANN's mission. But Internet stability certainly ICANN's mission.In fact the very first sentence on the ICANN "About" page is"To reach another person on the Internet you have to type an address into your computer - a name or a number. That address has to be unique so computers know where to find each other. ICANN coordinates these unique identifiers across the world. Without that coordination we wouldn't have one global Internet." If 2/3rds of the Internet couldn't get to a particular site, I'd have to ask if ICANN should not be looking at that. best, Jean Armour Polly At 1:28 AM -0500 2/27/08, Evan Leibovitch recently said:
Jean Armour Polly wrote:
Over the weekend, the Pakistan Telecom Authority ordered Pakistan's ISPs to block YouTube. The ISPs shared BGP (Border gateway protocol) data, which advertised routes to nowhere for YouTube. [...]
How stable is the Internet, anyway? Perhaps ALAC would like to discuss. I question whether ICANN -- and thus ALAC -- has a role in this.
I've always been conscious of vision-bloat, and we have a hard enough time churning policy that IS relevant to ICANN. The Pakistan issue, so far as I can tell, is one of abuse of the routing system, not of fraudulent or manipulative abuse of domain names.
ICANN is not IGF or IETF or WSIS; its mandate is fairly specific. Unless there is a direct relevance to ICANN policy, I don't think this is a
useful forum to debate the Pakistani actions.
- Evan
----------------------------------------------------------------
Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 277k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827
Jean and all, Yes see: http://blog.washingtonpost.com/securityfix/2008/02/pakistan_censorship_order... and http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9878655-7.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-... and http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7262071.stm The first link is the best one... And the ugly saga of ICANN's ill managed and incompatant organs continues unabated and by ICANN direct policy decision leadership... Jean Armour Polly wrote:
Over the weekend, the Pakistan Telecom Authority ordered Pakistan's ISPs to block YouTube. The ISPs shared BGP (Border gateway protocol) data, which advertised routes to nowhere for YouTube. But, the routes were "accidentally" shared with a company in Hong Kong. Because the routes were very concise, and because no one bothered to see if they were accurate, routers all over accepted the routes as the best path to YouTube. The following article gives more information, including the suggestion that secure BGP be adopted.http://www.macworld.com/article/132256/2008/02/networking.html This articlehttp://www.9wsyr.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=3786d02a-34e5-4f04-ad9... more information, including this quote:"Misrouting occurs every year or so among the world's Internet carriers, usually as a result of typos or other errors, Underwood said. In a more severe example, a Turkish telecom provider in 2004 started advertising that it was the best route to all of the Internet, causing widespread outages for many Web sites over several hours.
"Nobody ran any viruses or worms or malicious code. This is just the way the Internet works. And it's not very secure or reliable," Underwood said, adding that there is no real solution to the problem on the table.
While most route hijacking is unintentional, some Yahoo networks were apparently taken over a few years ago to distribute spam."To be honest, there's not a single thing preventing this from happening to E-Trade, or Bank of America, or the FBI, or the White House, or the Clinton campaign," Underwood said. "I think it's a useful moment for people to decide just how important it is that we fix problems like this." How stable is the Internet, anyway? Perhaps ALAC would like to discuss. Jean Armour Polly
---------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ ALAC mailing list ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org
At-Large Official Site: http://www.alac.icann.org ALAC Independent: http://www.icannalac.org
Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 277k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827
John and all, In the ICANN-NSOL relationship, it's who's the dog and who's the tail, if you catch my drift. Right now and for some time, it seems NSOL is the dog wagging the ICANN tail. That's backwards, IMHO. But you can bet NSOL is going to put up a hell of a fight. What ICANN has to decide is whether it's going to fight with NSOL or seek to weasel out from underneath. My guess is that ICANN will fold and eventually plead for mercy from the court so that none of the Board members have to pay any penalties to registrants out of their personal pockets. In any event, sooner or later the worm turns... John Leaven wrote:
All before you go either way, you should get independent technical advice and legal advice.
I checked PACER, the systems that US courts use to manage case documents, and this case hasn't even been entered yet. Until we can see what the complaint says, one can't tell what NetSol and ICANN are alleged to be doing.
On the other hand, we can certainly decry NetSol's admitted frontrunning as yet another anti-consumer abuse that ICANN's ill-considered AGP enables.
Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Information Superhighwayman wanna-be, http://www.johnlevine.com, ex-Mayor "More Wiener schnitzel, please", said Tom, revealingly.
_______________________________________________ ALAC mailing list ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org
At-Large Official Site: http://www.alac.icann.org ALAC Independent: http://www.icannalac.org
And what will be the ultimate result of all of that following your scenario? Carry on! don't leave the suspense in the middle point. On 27/02/2008, Jeffrey A. Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
John and all,
In the ICANN-NSOL relationship, it's who's the dog and who's the tail, if you catch my drift. Right now and for some time, it seems NSOL is the dog wagging the ICANN tail. That's backwards, IMHO. But you can bet NSOL is going to put up a hell of a fight.
What ICANN has to decide is whether it's going to fight with NSOL or seek to weasel out from underneath. My guess is that ICANN will fold and eventually plead for mercy from the court so that none of the Board members have to pay any penalties to registrants out of their personal pockets.
In any event, sooner or later the worm turns...
John Leaven wrote:
All before you go either way, you should get independent technical advice and legal advice.
I checked PACER, the systems that US courts use to manage case documents, and this case hasn't even been entered yet. Until we can see what the complaint says, one can't tell what NetSol and ICANN are alleged to be doing.
On the other hand, we can certainly decry NetSol's admitted frontrunning as yet another anti-consumer abuse that ICANN's ill-considered AGP enables.
Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Information Superhighwayman wanna-be, http://www.johnlevine.com, ex-Mayor "More Wiener schnitzel, please", said Tom, revealingly.
_______________________________________________ ALAC mailing list ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org
http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org
At-Large Official Site: http://www.alac.icann.org ALAC Independent: http://www.icannalac.org
_______________________________________________ ALAC mailing list ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org
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At-Large Official Site: http://www.alac.icann.org ALAC Independent: http://www.icannalac.org
-- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Franck Martin franck.martin@gmail.com http://www.peachymango.org/ "Toute connaissance est une réponse à une question" G. Bachelard
I wrote a couple of blog entries on this suit that people may find of interest, at http://weblog.johnlevine.com/2008/02/27 One word summary: fuggedaboutit. R's, John
John and all my friends, Thanks for the link, it has been passed on to our members accordingly. My own personal *unfettered* comments are: 1.) I am not surprised at your opinion. 2.) I do not share your opinion. 3.) I am of the unqualified opinion that your position and/or opinion is an attempt to down play this class action suit and as such, perhaps desire to diswage the significance of likely illegal activity as if such were acceptable. It is definitely not! 4.) If ICANN and NSOL are truly intrested in stoping Frontrunning they do have the necessary tools by which to do so. Why they have not, and when they will is the central concern and likely necessity. 5.) Poo-Pooing illegal activity is definately not a reasonable position for anyone of good conscience or sound mind to take. John L wrote:
I wrote a couple of blog entries on this suit that people may find of interest, at http://weblog.johnlevine.com/2008/02/27
One word summary: fuggedaboutit.
R's, John
Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 277k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827
participants (13)
-
Evan Leibovitch -
Franck Martin -
Izumi AIZU -
Jacqueline A. Morris -
Jean Armour Polly -
Jeffrey A. Williams -
JFC Morfin -
John L -
John Levine
-
Roberto Gaetano -
Sébastien Bachollet -
Thomas Narten -
Vanda Scartezini UOL