December 2010 - Rt4-whois - lists.icann.org

Good meeting yesterday
by Kathy Kleiman Dec. 7, 2010

Dec. 7, 2010

Great thanks to all who attended our Whois RT meeting yesterday - in person and by phone. Unfortunately, many of our members could not attend, and some were caught in air traffic difficult. I hope your travels ended easily and well. It was a good meeting. We are now working on our notes, and I will compare my notes with those Alice took on our behalf, and put out a draft on the Wiki (within the next day). We look forward to your additions, comments and questions. A base for London! Best, Kathy Kleiman Director of Policy .ORG, The Public Interest Registry Direct: +1 703-889-5756 | Mobile:+1 703-371-6846| www.pir.org <http://www.pir.org> | Find us on Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/pir.org> | .ORG Blog <http://www.pir.org/orgbuzz> | Flickr <http://flickr.com/orgbuzz> | YouTube <http://youtube.com/orgbuzz> | Twitter <http://twitter.com/ORGBuzz> | Confidentiality Note: Proprietary and confidential to .ORG, The Public Interest Registry. If received in error, please inform sender and then delete.

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Error w/Calendar
by Bill Smith Dec. 7, 2010

Dec. 7, 2010

I was checking our calendar today and noticed that the dates for London are incorrect (as displayed on the team site). I've done some investigation and Google has an error with embedded calendars. This appears to be something "new" as of 2 Dec or so. THey are aware of it and hopefully will have it fixed soon. Sorry for any inconvenience.

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Re: [Rt4-whois] Good meeting yesterday
by lynn＠goodsecurityconsulting.com Dec. 7, 2010

Dec. 7, 2010

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Calendar error
by Smith, Bill Dec. 7, 2010

Dec. 7, 2010

I was checking our calendar today and noticed that the dates for London are incorrect (as displayed on the team site). I've done some investigation and Google has an error with embedded calendars. This appears to be something "new" as of 2 Dec or so. THey are aware of it and hopefully will have it fixed soon. Sorry for any inconvenience.

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Fwd: ATRT session @CTG
by Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet Dec. 6, 2010

Dec. 6, 2010

Dear Members of RT4, I made a couple of notes during the report of the ATRT, and the discussion, regarding lines of discussion that might also be relevant input for our considerations, too. Just fyi, maybe they are of some use... Wilfried. -------- Original Message -------- > Definition of "public interest"? Everyone has his or her own :-) may be relevant to our discussion who or what is a "consumer"? > Metrics and Benchmarks? what are the metrics or the scale to measure ICANN'S compliance with expectations against? > What is "Public Policy"? in the context of relationship with GAC. we may want to consider a potential GAC'S view on this and/or specifically invite the GAC to submit their points of views > public interest --> global public interest just for the beauty of this :-) > ICANN Community --> Global Community, > including those who haven't joined yet so, the consumer may also be seen as those not yet on the 'net? -ww

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Link
by Smith, Bill Dec. 5, 2010

Dec. 5, 2010

https://community.icann.org/display/whoisreview/WHOIS+Background+Information

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Today's session
by Alice Jansen Dec. 5, 2010

Dec. 5, 2010

Dear Review Team Members, Please be kindly reminded that a WHOIS Review Team informal meeting is scheduled for today. The meeting will begin at 19:00 UTC - 14:00 COT in room Comision 3 A/B. Timing of the session is divided into 3 remote participation sections, namely: a. General conference bridge for the first 15 minutes - Introduction/Overview b. Subgroup bridges for 45 minutes - Discussion on draft scope of work c. General conference bridge for 60 minutes - Remainder of session Remote participants should have received all bridge details. If not, please feel free to email me. Note that we will run an Adobe Connect. Please make sure to join the virtual meeting room as discussion material will be projected. The URL may be found at http://cartagena39.icann.org/node/15335 Please do not hesitate to contact me should you have further questions or concerns. Thanks, Kind regards Alice Alice E. Jansen -------------------------- ICANN Assistant, Organizational & Affirmation Reviews alice.jansen(a)icann.org Direct Dial: +32.2.234.78.64 Mobile: +32.4.73.31.76.56 Office Fax: +32.2.234.78.48 Skype: alice_jansen_icann -------------------------- 6, Rond Point Schuman B-1040 Brussels, Belgium

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Re: [Rt4-whois] Planning our next steps
by sharon.lemon＠soca.x.gsi.gov.uk Dec. 4, 2010

Dec. 4, 2010

NOT PROTECTIVELY MARKED -- Converted from text/plain format --> I would be very interested in having a presentation on previous Whois Reviews, their findings, outcomes, learning points etc., Sharon Sharon Lemon OBE. Deputy Director e-Crime, Crime Techniques, Prevention and Alerts | Serious Organised Crime Agency | PO BOX 8000 | London | SE11 5EN | Tel: +44 (0)20 7238 8583 | Mobile: +44 (0)7768 290902 | Email: sharon.lemon(a)soca.x.gsi.gov.uk Get Safe Online Week 2010 runs from 15th-19th November. Visit the website to learn more or follow us on twitter @GetSafeOnline Get Safe Online is a joint initiative between the Government, the Serious Organised Crime Agency, and public and private sector sponsors from the worlds of technology, communication, retail and finance to raise awareness of internet security, and help individuals and smaller businesses in the UK to use the internet confidently and safely. -----Original Message----- From: rt4-whois-bounces(a)icann.org [mailto:rt4-whois-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Smith, Bill Sent: 12 November 2010 19:32 To: Kim G. von Arx Cc: rt4-whois(a)icann.org Subject: Re: [Rt4-whois] Planning our next steps Kim, I agree we'll have to make those "hard decisions". As someone who has already done a WHOIS review, what are the limitations of a forward-looking policy that considers two broad classes of "users"; those that want to restrict access, and those that want to have "open" access. To my mind, this seems a simple and elegant framework, at least for discussion purposes. Regards, Bill > -----Original Message----- > From: Kim G. von Arx [mailto:kim@vonarx.ca] > Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 10:20 AM > To: Smith, Bill > Cc: rt4-whois(a)icann.org > Subject: Re: [Rt4-whois] Planning our next steps > > Hi Bill: > > I agree that grouping various interests/people etc is artificial, but > I submit that that is always the case and is a general problem of any > policy review and development. In light of that, we will have to > eventually make those distinctions and categorization otherwise it > will be impossible to review the effectiveness of the WHOIS. I truly > agree with you that there are a myriad of different and legitimate > interests which, in theory, would call for a broad and global public > consultation to ascertain and determine as many views as possible. > However, this raises three major problems: > > 1. Knowledge of the issues at discussion - this requires a fairly > significant amount of education. When we did the CIRA WHOIS review > and development we had a total of 3 public consultations with > extensive background information to explain the WHOIS issues. Also, > we had various public fora across the country to discuss and collect > further information from our stakeholders. > > 2. Lack of interest - with the lack of knowledge of the issues, there > comes a fairly large amount of disinterest. We always related it to > electricity. We are all happy when we plug in a device in to the > outlet and all works and expect it to work, but the majority of us > have no idea and, indeed, no interest to learn more about the > policies, regulatory framework, etc. that affect the provision of > those services. > > 3. The global canvass - a public consultation would require a huge > amount of time, effort, and money to reach as many people as possible. > Just looking at the new TLD outreach, I submit that, despite the > enormous and laudable attempts by ICANN to inform the global community > only a very very small fraction of the Internet community have any > understanding of the implications, issues, problems, and benefits of > this new TLD initiative. > > Therefore, in short, we will have to make the hard decisions of who > our stakeholders are and how we define/categorize each. > > Kim > > > > > On 12 Nov 2010, at 12:57, Smith, Bill wrote: > > > Hi Kim, > > > > I agree that these groups have legitimate interests. The grouping > > you > have proposed is easily understood and would provide a framework for > us to invite input. > > > > However, I submit that the grouping is in some ways artificial and > consequently could be problematic if we try and weigh the issues and > concerns of one group against the other. > > > > As examples consider consumer advocates and registrants. Some > consumer advocates might argue for strict limitation on access to > WHOIS records while others would argue for a more liberal approach > (privacy vs fraud prevention/detection). Similarly, some registrants > will want anonymity and therefore a strict limitation on access (e.g. > dissidents) while others will argue for easier access in order to > enhance the security of the Internet generally (e.g. to reduce spam, > phishing, malware, and the like). > > > > In my opinion, there are legitimate reasons for both "open" and > restricted access. Those reasons need not neatly fall into groups, > regardless of how we attempt to organize things. From my perspective, > that is the larger issue; how to grant legitimate access to certain > pieces of information traditionally carried by WHOIS and at the same > time, restrict access to information carried in WHOIS. > > > > Finally, the grouping follows "ICANN tradition" and may tend to pit, > for example, some registrants against some registrars/registries. In > my opinion, that would be unfortunate if it causes groups/individuals > to resort to the entrenched positions that have been held for years. I > believe we need a different approach for a way forward. > > > > Regards, > > > > Bill > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Kim G. von Arx [mailto:kim@vonarx.ca] > >> Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 9:16 AM > >> To: Smith, Bill > >> Cc: rt4-whois(a)icann.org > >> Subject: Re: [Rt4-whois] Planning our next steps > >> > >> Hi Bill: > >> > >> I am not suggesting that we give them a preferred position, nor do > >> I think we should give anyone a preferred position, but listen to > >> the various stakeholders. This, of course, raises the issue, as we > >> had discussed on our last call, who are stakeholders are. > >> > >> I agree with you that it is a large group of varied interests, but > >> I think we need to start somewhere and the known and strong > >> advocates > so > >> far are law enforcement, consumer advocates, rights holders, and > >> registrants in general. I think that, in general, those three > groups > >> will cover a large majority of the interest groups provided we keep > >> each broad enough. > >> > >> In light of that, my suggestion was simply to give us the various > >> perspective of a number of different interest groups. I suspect > that > >> we will have various other people speak at our face to face > >> meetings > to > >> provide their respective views. > >> > >> Kim > >> > >> > >> On 12 Nov 2010, at 12:01, Smith, Bill wrote: > >> > >>> With a broad interpretation, should there be any limitation > regarding > >> where concerns originate from? I think not. > >>> > >>> Copyright and trademark owners wish to protect their property. > >> Certain website/domain owners wish to protect their legitimate need > for > >> anonymity. Yet other entities wish to address issues related to > >> phishing, spam, malware, fraud, etc. via legitimate efforts to > protect > >> their customers and good name. And there are many, many more such > >> scenarios. > >>> > >>> I'd hesitate to give "rights holders", or any other stakeholder a > >> preferred position at our table. All have legitimate interests. > >>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: rt4-whois-bounces(a)icann.org [mailto:rt4-whois- > >> bounces(a)icann.org] > >>>> On Behalf Of Kim G. von Arx > >>>> Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 8:31 AM > >>>> To: Woeber(a)CC.UniVie.ac.at > >>>> Cc: rt4-whois(a)icann.org > >>>> Subject: Re: [Rt4-whois] Planning our next steps > >>>> > >>>> Hi Wilfried: > >>>> > >>>> I don't think we should necessarily limit it to just trademark > >> owners, > >>>> but IP rights holders in general as issues may arise with respect > >> to, > >>>> e.g., copyright. > >>>> > >>>> Kim > >>>> > >>>> On 12 Nov 2010, at 11:20, Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Hi Kim, Team! > >>>>> > >>>>> Kim G. von Arx wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Hi Emily et al: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> - What is ICANN's policy at the moment? Would any member of > the > >>>> Team be in a position to do a presentation on this? Or should we > >>>> invite someone from the staff to cover this point? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I would suggest a staff member to make that presentation > >>>>> > >>>>> +1, actually it would be nice if some information for this topic > >>>> would > >>>>> already be available (probably only in rough draft format) for > the > >>>> Sunday > >>>>> get-together. > >>>>> > >>>>> Alternatively, a set of pointers to relevant information or > >>>> documents. > >>>>> > >>>>>> I agree with all of the items listed, but hope that we will > >>>>>> have > >>>> started most of the work already. My thinking is that our face > >>>> to > >> face > >>>> meetings, however, should focus on fine tuning rough brushstroke > >>>> proposals and advance contentious and problematic areas as well > >>>> as provide expert presentations to assist us to reach consensus. > >>>> I > >> would > >>>> like to also suggest that we invite someone from the > >>>> rights-holder constituency to bring their concerns to the table. > >>>> With respect > to > >>>> format, I think it would be best if we start all of our face to > face > >>>> meetings with administrative issues first and then dive in to the > >>>> presentations for half a day and then commence the substantive > work > >> for > >>>> the remaining 1.5 days. > >>>>> > >>>>> "rights-holder" to be understood as trademark owners? > >>>>> > >>>>>>> Attendance at San Francisco and other ICANN meetings > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I would welcome the Team's thoughts on this. I'd like to > propose > >>>> the following format for all ICANN meetings that time place > >>>> during > >> our > >>>> mandate > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> - We all aim to have a 1.5 day Team meeting > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I would suggest that we aim for a 2-day team meeting to utilize > >> our > >>>> face to face time as much as possible. > >>>>> > >>>>> OK for me. > >>>>> > >>>>>>> - In addition, we should use ICANN meetings for outreach to: > >>>>>>> - the Supporting Organisations and Advisory Committees > >>>>>>> - the Board > >>>>>>> - any local stakeholder groups who are relevant to our task > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I would like to use the outreach sessions to build liaison > >>>>>>> with > >> the > >>>> relevant SO/ACs, inform them about how and what we're doing, ask > >> them > >>>> what they think we should be doing, and how they can contribute > >>>> to > >> our > >>>> task. Would it be possible for those who have been put forward > by > >>>> different SO/ACs to accompany the Chair/Vice Chair to those > meetings > >>>> and help lead the discussions? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> agreed > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Our next call > >>>>>>> I propose that in our next call we focus on: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> - broad brush stakeholder identification, from a global > >> perspective > >>>>>>> - identifying what, if any, external resources we need. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> agreed. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>> - > -- > >> -- > >>>> ---- > >>>>> > >>>>> Wilfried > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Rt4-whois mailing list > >>>> Rt4-whois(a)icann.org > >>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/rt4-whois > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Rt4-whois mailing list > >>> Rt4-whois(a)icann.org > >>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/rt4-whois > > =0A_______________________________________________ Rt4-whois mailing list Rt4-whois(a)icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/rt4-whois All E-Mail sent and received by SOCA is scanned and subject to assessment. 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Cartagena draft agenda -
by Alice Jansen Dec. 2, 2010

Dec. 2, 2010

Dear Review Team Members, Please find attached the Cartagena agenda drafted by Emily and Kathy. Attached, you will also find the draft scope (as posted on the wiki) for your convenience. Please note that bridge details for Members participating remotely will be circulated in the upcoming hour. Thank you, Kind regards Alice Alice E. Jansen -------------------------- ICANN Assistant, Organizational & Affirmation Reviews alice.jansen(a)icann.org Direct Dial: +32.2.234.78.64 Mobile: +32.4.73.31.76.56 Office Fax: +32.2.234.78.48 Skype: alice_jansen_icann -------------------------- 6, Rond Point Schuman B-1040 Brussels, Belgium

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Agenda ideas for Cartagena
by Emily Taylor Dec. 2, 2010

Dec. 2, 2010

Hi I'm aware that many of the Team will be beginning the long journey to Cartagena in the next day or two. I have a specific question with regard to the Agenda, on which I'd appreciate your views. Wilfried, during our last call, suggested that we ask for a speaker from ICANN to give us some context on the AoC. Considering the draft agenda with Kathy, it also seems fair to invite a speaker from the US Government (the other signatory to the AoC) to present their views too. I understand that both Rod Beckstrom and Larry Strickling (USG) will be in Cartagena, and there is a possibility that they could be available to join us. My specific question is this: Given that many of us will be participating remotely, including me, are there any objections to having these speakers join us at a meeting at which we are not all physically present? Alice is starting her journey tomorrow, and it would be helpful if I could have any urgent objections or other comments in the next 24 hours. Thanks, and safe travels! Emily 76 Temple Road, Oxford OX4 2EZ UK telephone: 01865 582 811 mobile: 07540 049 322 emily.taylor(a)etlaw.co.uk www.etlaw.co.uk

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