September 2014 - ChineseGP - lists.icann.org

Re: [ChineseGP] [lgr] [vip] Email Address Internationalization (EAI) and Gmail
by Tan Tanaka, Dennis Nov. 11, 2014

Nov. 11, 2014

This is indeed good news, however I’d like to confirm what you’ve heard at ICANN London (the link to the transcript below is not working for me). Is it EAI (eg 福祥(a)xn--2d4a.xn--fiqs8s<mailto:福祥@邓.中国>) what they claim gmail will support or is it just IDN email (ie dennis(a)xn--2d4a.xn--fiqs8s<mailto:dennis@邓.中国>). I recently watched a presentation in Google I/O where they also talked about IDNs in email but it was not clear whether they will be supporting full EAI. If anyone could shed some light on this, it’d be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Dennis From: Jiankang Yao [mailto:healthyao@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2014 9:56 PM To: Fahd Batayneh; TF-AIDN (tf-aidn(a)meswg.org) LGR Mailing List; Variant IDN Project (vip(a)icann.org) Subject: Re: [vip] Email Address Internationalization (EAI) and Gmail A big news for EAI! ________________________________ Jiankang Yao From: Fahd Batayneh<mailto:fahd.batayneh@icann.org> Date: 2014-06-27 00:08 To: TF-AIDN (tf-aidn(a)meswg.org)<mailto:tf-aidn@meswg.org>; LGR Mailing List<mailto:lgr@icann.org>; Variant IDN Project (vip(a)icann.org)<mailto:vip@icann.org> Subject: [vip] Email Address Internationalization (EAI) and Gmail Friends and Colleagues, During the Public Forum at ICANN 50 in London, Jordyn Buchanan from Google confirmed that Gmail will support EAI on their platform by the end of this month. … by the end of this month gmail is going to be the first major mail platform with full EAI support, so you'll be able to email back and forth with gmail users at least … You can find the scribe at http://www.streamtext.net/player/carttranscript?event=SANDRINGHAM-26Jun2014. A good step forward for Universal Acceptance of IDNs. Thank you, Fahd Batayneh ICANN _______________________________________________ lgr mailing list lgr(a)icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/lgr

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Chinese Community Steps Forward for Chinese TLDs - Forms Generation Panel for Root Zone Label Generation Ruleset (LGR)
by Jia-Juh Kimoto Sept. 25, 2014

Sept. 25, 2014

Dear All, Please note that we have announce the formation of the Chinese Script Generation Panel on Wednesday, 24 September 2014. On behalf of ICANN, we would like to take this opportunity to thank each of the members for offering their time and expertise to volunteer for the Chinese Script Generation Panel. The announcement is on the ICANN website at: https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2014-09-24-en . Best regards, Jia Jia-Juh Yuh Kimoto IDN Program Team ICANN - Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers 12025 Waterfront Drive, Suite 300 Los Angeles, CA 90094

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[lgr] Chinese Community Steps Forward for Chinese TLDs - Forms Generation Panel for Root Zone Label Generation Ruleset (LGR)
by Jia-Juh Kimoto Sept. 24, 2014

Sept. 24, 2014

Dear All, Please note that we have announce the formation of the Chinese Script Generation Panel on Wednesday, 24 September 2014. On behalf of ICANN, we would like to take this opportunity to thank each of the members for offering their time and expertise to volunteer for the Chinese Script Generation Panel. The announcement is on the ICANN website at: https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2014-09-24-en . Best regards, Jia Jia-Juh Yuh Kimoto IDN Program Team ICANN - Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers 12025 Waterfront Drive, Suite 300 Los Angeles, CA 90094 _______________________________________________ lgr mailing list lgr(a)icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/lgr

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Again C-J Variants ， Creteria and Coordingnating Process
by ZhangJoe Sept. 22, 2014

Sept. 22, 2014

亊 U+4E8A vs 事 U+4E8B 鉱 U+9271 vs 鑛 U+945B 礦 U+7926.vs 砿 U+783F 非常高兴Chris可以看懂我写的中文邮件，而且愿意帮我们译为通畅的英文，太好了！太感谢了！ Chris 的邮件还给了我两个有意思的提示，供大家参考： 1．大家看问题的角度和重点不一样。作为文字专家，Chris喜欢参考日本的《常用汉字表》之类资料，中国大陆的文字专家可能会强调《通用规范汉字表》；我作为一个IT工作者，可能会重视Unicode建立时引用的各国编码字符集，对日本而言，可能JIS x0208会被重视些。以上这些字，可能不在某个字表中，但却都存在于日本的基本集JIS x0208中，在IRG中，我们记作J0。0，代表基本、重要。这些尺度和准则（creteria），需要大家坐在一起讨论清楚，然后一个字一个字地敲定，不能泛泛而谈。否则永远得不出有工程意义的结论。 2．现在我们考察一个汉字是否另一个汉字的“变体字”，第一步先不能强调在某个语境“常用不常用”、“规范不规范”、“正规不正规”，而是要看他们“是不是”变体（同义乎？同源同用乎？）因为在一个语境中被认作是“异体字”的往往使用较少，不正规（unoffiacial）；但在另一语境就未必。把这个“是不是”的问题解决了，我们再走第二步：“常用否？”、“值得列入TLD 中吗？”鑛是一个很好的例子。在hans,矿的变体字组可能是：矿礦鑛在hant,礦的变体字组可能是：礦鑛在jpan,鉱的变体字组可能是：鉱砿礦鑛经过讨论协商，coordination，也许会滤除一些频度很低的变体字，建立如下的异体关系：矿for hans-礦for hant-鉱for jpan 当然还可能有其他选择。但这表示了一个工作步骤和coordinating的过程和目标。张轴材发件人: chinesegp-bounces(a)icann.org [mailto:chinesegp-bounces@icann.org] 代表齐超发送时间: 2014年9月22日 18:12 收件人: Dillon, Chris; ChineseGP(a)icann.org 主题: [ChineseGP] C-J mapping rule examples Dear Chris and CGP members, Hello! Here is an attachment of cases to show some relationship between Hani and Jpan, which may not be comprehensive. But I hope it makes some sense for the CGP meeting. And I add the homework from Hanchuan. Through it, we shall forecast the results of JGP or KGP and prepare the concept for the coordination. It is revised according to Chris' comment. Thank Chris and Professor Zhang! _____ Qi Chao via foxmail 发件人： Dillon, Chris <mailto:c.dillon@ucl.ac.uk> 发送时间： 2014年9月22日(星期一) 下午4:59 收件人： <mailto:qichao@cnnic.cn> 齐超抄送： JOEZHANG43 <mailto:JOEZHANG43@HOTMAIL.COM> ; wangwei <mailto:wangwei@cnic.cn> ; yanzhiwei <mailto:yanzhiwei@cnnic.cn> 主题： RE: RE: C-J mapping rule examples Dear Qi Chao, You are very welcome. I’m glad what I wrote was helpful. My spoken and written Chinese is not good. We’re all in the same situation. I can now understand written Chinese, for example what Professor Zhang wrote. I’m just about to reply to that. As long as the Japanese community recognizes situations like 紀伊國屋 and 紀伊国屋, I’m hoping there will be a concept of variant there. It somehow feels right that a shop where I spent many happy hours is now acting as a useful example. Regards, Chris. -- Research Associate in Linguistic Computing, Centre for Digital Humanities, UCL, Gower St, London WC1E 6BT Tel +44 20 7679 1599 (int 31599) <http://www.ucl.ac.uk/dis/people/chrisdillon> www.ucl.ac.uk/dis/people/chrisdillon From: 齐超 [mailto:qichao@cnnic.cn] Sent: 20 September 2014 11:52 To: Dillon, Chris Cc: JOEZHANG43; wangwei; yanzhiwei Subject: Re: RE: C-J mapping rule examples Dear Chris, I very appreciate you for your comments, hope my poor english did not trouble you much. I think, handling two repertoires separately and blocking the variant(maybe no variant in Jpan) for the other side, is an easy and experimental method, at least for computer processing . Thank you. Qi Chao -----原始邮件----- 发件人:"Dillon, Chris" <c.dillon(a)ucl.ac.uk <mailto:c.dillon@ucl.ac.uk> > 发送时间:2014-09-19 20:49:00 (星期五) 收件人: "齐超" <qichao(a)cnnic.cn <mailto:qichao@cnnic.cn> >, JOEZHANG43 <JOEZHANG43(a)HOTMAIL.COM <mailto:JOEZHANG43@HOTMAIL.COM> > 抄送: wangwei <wangwei(a)cnic.cn <mailto:wangwei@cnic.cn> >, yanzhiwei <yanzhiwei(a)cnnic.cn <mailto:yanzhiwei@cnnic.cn> > 主题: RE: C-J mapping rule examples Dear Qi Chao, I’ve added some comments to the attached file. Basically I’m suggesting: * That the word variant is being used differently on the CGP and in the Japanese community. On the CGP, it means a character that can be used in all situations to create either SC or TC, a universal variant. However, in the Japanese community, the word variant is disliked, as there is no situation (except possibly in Hawaii) where traditional characters are used to write modern Japanese. The reality is though that local variants are in use and, for example, a lot of people know that the bookstore 紀伊國屋 prefers that form to 紀伊国屋, even if they write the latter. * The use of forms only listed in Japanese Ministry of Education pre-War and modern tables e.g. 常用漢字 and 人名用漢字 would hugely reduce the number of Japanese variants. I think situations like TC and old Japanese 龍, SC 龙 and Japanese 竜 (all meaning “dragon”) are unlikely to be troublesome when Chinese and Japanese repertories are amalgamated, as it doesn’t matter that such a character ends up with variants not in use in the countries. However, cases where one of the languages has simplified two originally different characters e.g. 發 ‘send’ and 髮 ‘hair’ both became 发 in the PRC, may cause some strangeness, as it won’t be possible to have two separate Japanese labels whose only difference is 発 and 髪. However, I can’t think of a situation where this phenomenon would actually cause trouble, and it’s a small price to make the system as a whole work. It would be useful to be able to amalgamate the repertoires experimentally so that any issues may be solved before submission to the IP. Regards, Chris. -- Research Associate in Linguistic Computing, Centre for Digital Humanities, UCL, Gower St, London WC1E 6BT Tel +44 20 7679 1599 (int 31599) www.ucl.ac.uk/dis/people/chrisdillon <http://www.ucl.ac.uk/dis/people/chrisdillon> From: 齐超 [mailto:qichao@cnnic.cn <mailto:qichao@cnnic.cn> ] Sent: 19 September 2014 12:56 To: JOEZHANG43; Dillon, Chris Cc: wangwei; yanzhiwei Subject: C-J mapping rule examples Professor Zhang, Chris, Hello! Hanchuan ask for some examples to describe the mapping rule between hani and jpan yesterday . The attachment includes some examples from Yan Zhiwei and Professor Zhang in recent mail. Please review whether the examples are accurate and comprehensive, or give some new idea for coordination of CGP? Thanks. _____ 齐超 via foxmail

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C-J mapping rule examples
by 齐超 Sept. 22, 2014

Sept. 22, 2014

Dear Chris and CGP members, Hello! Here is an attachment of cases to show some relationship between Hani and Jpan, which may not be comprehensive. But I hope it makes some sense for the CGP meeting. And I add the homework from Hanchuan. Through it, we shall forecast the results of JGP or KGP and prepare the concept for the coordination. It is revised according to Chris' comment. Thank Chris and Professor Zhang! Qi Chao via foxmail 发件人： Dillon, Chris 发送时间： 2014年9月22日(星期一) 下午4:59 收件人：齐超抄送： JOEZHANG43; wangwei; yanzhiwei 主题： RE: RE: C-J mapping rule examples Dear Qi Chao, You are very welcome. I’m glad what I wrote was helpful. My spoken and written Chinese is not good. We’re all in the same situation. I can now understand written Chinese, for example what Professor Zhang wrote. I’m just about to reply to that. As long as the Japanese community recognizes situations like 紀伊國屋 and 紀伊国屋, I’m hoping there will be a concept of variant there. It somehow feels right that a shop where I spent many happy hours is now acting as a useful example. Regards, Chris. -- Research Associate in Linguistic Computing, Centre for Digital Humanities, UCL, Gower St, London WC1E 6BT Tel +44 20 7679 1599 (int 31599) www.ucl.ac.uk/dis/people/chrisdillon From: 齐超 [mailto:qichao@cnnic.cn] Sent: 20 September 2014 11:52 To: Dillon, Chris Cc: JOEZHANG43; wangwei; yanzhiwei Subject: Re: RE: C-J mapping rule examples Dear Chris, I very appreciate you for your comments, hope my poor english did not trouble you much. I think, handling two repertoires separately and blocking the variant(maybe no variant in Jpan) for the other side, is an easy and experimental method, at least for computer processing . Thank you. Qi Chao -----原始邮件----- 发件人:"Dillon, Chris" <c.dillon(a)ucl.ac.uk> 发送时间:2014-09-19 20:49:00 (星期五) 收件人: "齐超" <qichao(a)cnnic.cn>, JOEZHANG43 <JOEZHANG43(a)HOTMAIL.COM> 抄送: wangwei <wangwei(a)cnic.cn>, yanzhiwei <yanzhiwei(a)cnnic.cn> 主题: RE: C-J mapping rule examples Dear Qi Chao, I’ve added some comments to the attached file. Basically I’m suggesting: · That the word variant is being used differently on the CGP and in the Japanese community. On the CGP, it means a character that can be used in all situations to create either SC or TC, a universal variant. However, in the Japanese community, the word variant is disliked, as there is no situation (except possibly in Hawaii) where traditional characters are used to write modern Japanese. The reality is though that local variants are in use and, for example, a lot of people know that the bookstore 紀伊國屋 prefers that form to 紀伊国屋, even if they write the latter. · The use of forms only listed in Japanese Ministry of Education pre-War and modern tables e.g. 常用漢字 and 人名用漢字 would hugely reduce the number of Japanese variants. I think situations like TC and old Japanese 龍, SC 龙 and Japanese 竜 (all meaning “dragon”) are unlikely to be troublesome when Chinese and Japanese repertories are amalgamated, as it doesn’t matter that such a character ends up with variants not in use in the countries. However, cases where one of the languages has simplified two originally different characters e.g. 發 ‘send’ and 髮 ‘hair’ both became 发 in the PRC, may cause some strangeness, as it won’t be possible to have two separate Japanese labels whose only difference is 発 and 髪. However, I can’t think of a situation where this phenomenon would actually cause trouble, and it’s a small price to make the system as a whole work. It would be useful to be able to amalgamate the repertoires experimentally so that any issues may be solved before submission to the IP. Regards, Chris. -- Research Associate in Linguistic Computing, Centre for Digital Humanities, UCL, Gower St, London WC1E 6BT Tel +44 20 7679 1599 (int 31599) www.ucl.ac.uk/dis/people/chrisdillon From: 齐超 [mailto:qichao@cnnic.cn] Sent: 19 September 2014 12:56 To: JOEZHANG43; Dillon, Chris Cc: wangwei; yanzhiwei Subject: C-J mapping rule examples Professor Zhang, Chris, Hello! Hanchuan ask for some examples to describe the mapping rule between hani and jpan yesterday . The attachment includes some examples from Yan Zhiwei and Professor Zhang in recent mail. Please review whether the examples are accurate and comprehensive, or give some new idea for coordination of CGP? Thanks. 齐超 via foxmail

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Again，CJK Variants
by ZhangJoe Sept. 22, 2014

Sept. 22, 2014

再说变体字，CGP-JGP Date：2014-09-20~21 To: ICANN/CGP members From: Zhang Zhoucai Subject : Again，Variants Definition & Concept Note：我现在没有时间将此文改写为英文，同时，用英文有的地方也难以表达。抱歉暂时如此。首先，我觉得对于这个“变体字”的基本概念、基本术语还缺少沟通、缺少共识。虽然英文都是Variant，但在我们TLD 的范畴内，概念已经变了，不再是传统说法的“异体字”了。不知哪位先生从何时起翻译为“变体字”了，Chris 建议英文Lexical Alternate，也是比较接近的。这种表达是明智的，避免了很多政治性问题，更加符合我们项目的实际了。在讨论Mapping, Allocattable/Block之前，建议我们彻底把Chinese Variants/CJK Variants的定义概念讨论清楚。因此，建议下次双周电话会议工作语言用中文，起码先在说中文的组员中形成共识。我写的那个CJK Variant定义稿建议可以当靶子讨论。这不是Variant广义/侠义的问题，而是“转义”了：对中文而言，本来简体/繁体谁也不认为是Variant，大陆不以为然，港台也不以为然，现在都同意了是“变体”；有的异体字，两岸就是互为正异的，在TLD 没必要争论孰正孰异，比如决U+51B3和決U+6C7A，反正对应了，音和义都一样，互为变体字。扩大到CJK，主要是C-J，跨语境了，过去从来没人定义过跨语境的异体字，但客观上是存在着对应关系的，只不过现在靠“同音+同义”判断不行了，只能靠“同义”+“同源同用”来界定。这样的CJK变体字可能会有很多，但从TLD的角度，我们可以只选择那些常用的、高频的，还有易混淆的汉字编成CJK 变体字组。下面是一些常用CJK Variants的实例。 Hans-----HanT-----Jpan 事U+4E8B事U+4E8B亊U+4E8A 处U+5904處U+8655処U+51E6 壤U+58E4壤U+58E4壌U+58CC 对U+5BF9對U+5C0D対U+5BFE 专U+4E13專U+5C08専U+5C02 恼U+607C惱U+60F1悩U+60A9 插U+63D2插U+63D2挿U+633F 曾U+66FE曾U+66FE曽U+66FD 樱U+6A31櫻U+6AFB桜U+685C 栈U+6808棧U+68E7桟U+685F 气U+6C14氣U+6C23気U+6C17 焰U+7130焰U+7130焔U+7114 烧U+70E7燒U+71D2焼U+713C 兽U+517D獸U+7378獣U+7363 瘦U+7626瘦U+7626痩U+75E9 发U+53D1發U+767C発U+767A 矿U+77FF礦U+7926砿U+783F 团U+56E2團U+5718団U+56E3 脑U+8111腦U+8166脳U+8133 图U+56FE圖U+5716図U+56F3 厅U+5385廳U+5EF3庁U+5E81 稳U+7A33穩U+7A69穏U+7A4F 在中文变体字组中引入日文变体字（主要是日文新字体字）有利也有弊。弊端是带来了异体字组的复杂性，但我们选择高频常用字来关联应当可以减少复杂性；有利的方面是，第一，扩大了TLD Label的国际性，第二，也可以避免有意无意或恶意的域名混淆。以图书馆为例：图书馆圖書館図書館圗舘啚其中图有5个Variants（不算日文図是4个）,书有两个Variants,馆有3个Variants(从文字学角度远比此数字多)；可能的Label组合不算日文有4*2*3=24个，算上日文有 5*2*3=30个。根据各国家地区的实际应用和频度，刨除“ill-formed string”,实际Allocatable Labels可能只有这三个：图书馆for hans，圖書館 for hant ，図書館for jpan。同样的例子，医学会for hans 醫學會for hant 医学会 for jpan 音乐艺术 for hans 音樂藝術for hant 音楽芸術for jpan 开发for hans 開發for hant 開発 for jpan 类似这样的CJK Variants 衍生的CJK Variant Labels，视为一个TLD entity好呢？还是多个entity 好？这里的利弊需要在CGP–JGP讨论,也需要ICANN的总策略来决定。我们可以注意到，在跨语境的情形，Varian 的对称性symmetry和可传递性transivity 在绝大多数情况是成立的。个别的非对称、不可传递的问题，多半与上下文有关，这种情况是极其个别的，如发-發-発与髪的关系，需要人为处理，不应总为这种个例影响总体的规则的讨论。发件人: chinesegp-bounces(a)icann.org [mailto:chinesegp-bounces@icann.org] 代表 ZhangJoe 发送时间: 2014年9月1日 18:53 收件人: 'Wang Wei'; ChineseGP(a)icann.org 主题: [ChineseGP] Proposed CJK Variants Definition 重要性: 高 Dear Colleagues, Enclosed please find the proposed CJK Variants Definition for discussion. Regards, Zhang Zhoucai 发件人: chinesegp-bounces(a)icann.org <mailto:chinesegp-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:chinesegp-bounces@icann.org] 代表 Wang Wei 发送时间: 2014年8月25日 15:32 收件人: ChineseGP(a)icann.org <mailto:ChineseGP@icann.org> 主题: [ChineseGP] Memo of CGP Fortnightly Meeting 21st August Dear colleagues and Hanchuan Thanks for attending the second fortnightly meeting. We need to fulfill the following tasks before the next meeting. 1) Discuss CGP repertoire slimming plan within the CGP and with CDNC. 2) Redefine the “variant”. It would be appreciated that Prof. Zhang give a general and compatible definition of “variant”, which can be well suitable for C, J and K, helping J and K understand the situation better. 3) Provide the final version to IP. 4) Provide some coordination examples on variants mapping to Japan and Korea communities (mainly to J). Qichao and Zhiwei will figure out these examples and let Kenny share it to JGP. Please feel free to let me know if there is anything I forget to note. Regards Wang Wei -----Original Message----- From: chinesegp-bounces(a)icann.org <mailto:chinesegp-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:chinesegp-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Wang Wei Sent: 08 August 2014 02:46 To: ChineseGP(a)icann.org <mailto:ChineseGP@icann.org> Subject: [ChineseGP] Memo of CGP Fortnightly Meeting 7th August Dear Hanchuan and Colleagues Thank you for attending the meeting. Here are some tasks we need to do before the next fortnightly meeting: 1) Improve the proposal, specify the language, repertoire and etc. (I will send out a updated document next week) 2) Provide some coordination examples on variants mapping to Japan and Korea community, to help all have a better understanding of coordination principles. 3) Select Kenny and other representatives to KGP meeting next Tuesday Please feel free to let me know if there is anything I forget to mention. Regards Wang Wei

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Re: [ChineseGP] CGP Fortnightly Meeting - 18 Sep 2014
by Han Chuan Lee Sept. 18, 2014

Sept. 18, 2014

Hi all, Please note that the meeting will start at 3pm (UTC+8). Thank you! Regards Han Chuan, Lee From: Han Chuan Lee <hanchuan.lee(a)icann.org> Date: Wednesday, 17 September, 2014 11:43 pm To: "chineseGP(a)icann.org" <chineseGP(a)icann.org> Subject: [ChineseGP] CGP Fortnightly Meeting - 18 Sep 2014 Hi all, At the request of the CGP Chair, the meeting on 18 Sep will proceed. Thank you. Regards Han Chuan, Lee

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CGP Fortnightly Meeting - 18 Sep 2014
by Han Chuan Lee Sept. 18, 2014

Sept. 18, 2014

Hi all, At the request of the CGP Chair, the meeting on 18 Sep will proceed. Thank you. Regards Han Chuan, Lee

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Canceled: CGP Fortnightly Meeting
by Han Chuan Lee Sept. 4, 2014

Sept. 4, 2014

Hi all, This is a regular fortnightly meeting for the CGP to meet and discuss. Adobeconnect: icann.adobeconnect.com/CGP Adigo Bridge ID: 35105106 Adigo dial in number: http://www.adigo.com/icann Regards Han Chuan, Lee

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Canceled: CGP Fortnightly Meeting
by Han Chuan Lee Sept. 4, 2014

Sept. 4, 2014

Hi all, This is a regular fortnightly meeting for the CGP to meet and discuss. Adobeconnect: icann.adobeconnect.com/CGP Adigo Bridge ID: 35105106

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