January 2017 - GNSO-RPM-WG - lists.icann.org

Mp3, Attendance & AC Chat Review of all Rights Protection Mechanisms (RPMs) in all gTLDs PDP Working Group
by Terri Agnew Feb. 1, 2017

Feb. 1, 2017

Dear All, Please find the attendance of the call attached to this email and the MP3 recording below for the Review of all Rights Protection Mechanisms (RPMs) in all gTLDs PDP Working Group call held on Wednesday, 18 January 2017 at 17:00 UTC. Attendance of the call is posted on agenda wiki page: https://community.icann.org/x/JZ3DAw MP3: http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-rpm-review-18jan17-en.mp3 The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page: http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar ** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list ** Mailing list archives: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rpm-wg/ Wiki page: https://community.icann.org/x/wCWAAw Thank you. Kind regards, Terri Agnew Adobe Connect chat transcript for 18 January 2017: Terri Agnew 2:Welcome to the Review of all Rights Protection Mechanisms (RPMs) in all gTLDs PDP Working Group on Wednesday, 18 January 2017 at 17:00 UTC for 60 minutes. Terri Agnew 2:agenda wiki page: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_… George Kirikos:Hi everyone. Paul Tattersfield:Hi George, Everyone Ivett Paulovics:Hello everyone, greetings from Italy. Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Hello All Paul Tattersfield:For people not able to attend the meeting ICANN publishes the .mp3 - I was wondering if it would be possible for ICANN to publish a recording of the meeting? George Kirikos:Hi Paul. How's it going? Paul Tattersfield:So those not able to attend could 'watch' the meeting i.e. see the slides and audio in real time while listening to the audio Mary Wong:@Paul, do you mean a live stream? George Kirikos:@Paul: I think they tecnically can save the Adobe sessions. Not sure if they've been doing that, though. Paul Tattersfield:Yes Mary George Kirikos:*technically, even Paul Tattersfield:something like https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__helpx.adobe.com_adobe-… perhaps? Mary Wong:@Paul, during ICANN meetings there's usually a live audio stream (but not for regular WG meetings outside the ICANN meeting) Paul Tattersfield:that's a good way to describe what I was thinking George 'save the session' Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):do we need to log in again? Philip Corwin:I am attempting to call in Philip Corwin:When I call in the recording starts, cuts out, then drops me. Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):skype to 1800 usually works Paul Tattersfield:It would really improve the experience for those not able to attend the calls because of TimeZone considerations I was thinking Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):I meant to one of the toll free phones in US Philip Corwin:Just requested a dial out George Kirikos:@Paul / @Mary: See https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__archive.icann.org_en_me… for how they've been archived in the past. Terri Agnew 2:We are having the dial out to Phil Philip Corwin:Thx Terry. Awaiting call Terri Agnew 2:Phil has joined on audio Philip Corwin:I am now connected by phone Lori Schulman:Hello. Sorry that I am late. WIPO:We have tried over a dozen times, and keep getting dropped from the line before an operator comes on. Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:Me too Renee Fossen (Forum):same WIPO:We have (finally) made it on the call. Philip Corwin:Same here -- co-chairs get same treatment ;-) Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:Switched to speakers for now...no mic. will keep trying to call. George Kirikos:Probably too many meetings scheduled at noon Eastern time. If we were to schedule the call at 11:45 am Eastern, probably easier for everyone to get on..... Alternatively, if there was an automated way to get on (i.e. with individual PIN codes), instead of requiring human intervention for each caller. Terri Agnew 2:I am having the operator report his issue on joining audio Terri Agnew 2:Please let me know if a dial out on the telephone is needed Beth Bacon:I also had an issue dialing in. The line kept disconnecting. Terri Agnew 2:@Beth, I am sending you a private AC chat George Kirikos:For 1.(iii) do these options even exist at present? George Kirikos:(i.e. the TMCH might clearly communicate that those options don't exist) :-) Mary Wong:@Phil, that was the point staff had wondered too - how would people know if they can't search the database? Mary Wong:There was a lot of community feedback - to the 2015 RPM Staff Paper - about inconsistencies and difficulties with submissions into the TMCH. Susan Payne:perhaps you could share paul's comments since he did not send to the list Mary Wong:@Susan we will follow up with Paul. George Kirikos:Since the underlying TMs are public, it's difficult to justify why the TMCH recordals are not public. Kathy Kleiman:Tx Beth, I think that's exactly what we are looking for (i) and (ii) Lori Schulman:Because what you chose to record can be part of an underlying proprietary stategy...which marks may have more value or be part of a greater enforcement plan George Kirikos:Remember, that people are registering common terms like "pizza" into the TMCH, see: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__domainnamewire.com_2014… Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):in russian case it was more generic IDN name for "we" Mary Wong:I believe TM holders and agents have to provide the relevant description of goods and services according to the Nice classification, as well as registration number and jurisdiction, when submitting a registered TM. Kathy Kleiman:Mary: can we add what Phil just said to our Notes -- are there any troubles for multiple registrations of the same TM string by multiple trademark owners? Mary Wong:@Kathy, I'll double check the transcript and add, yes, thank you. Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):for example one company has right for "special kind of boots" in France and the other in China? Mary Wong:The TMCH Guidelines provide a sample of a signed Declaration of Use, but specifically for a sample of proof of use, it's not an exhaustive list (meant to be flexible) Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):but if a person sends only one existing item in the world to the only customer (nis neighbour) is it a valid proof of use? Susan Payne:Would it be helpful for us to pull out the comments submitted to the staff RPMs review of examples of problems. Would the Implementation Review also have anything relevant on this - apologies I do not recall? George Kirikos:*6 to mute/unmute Jonathan Matkowsky - RiskIQ:I'm not muted Terri Agnew 2:@Jonathan, your mic isn't active Kathy Kleiman:@Mary: could you kindly add the words "piecemeal approachand clarity of proof of use Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):I think we disconnected from bridge (adobe users) Terri Agnew 2:to activate your mic, top tool bar, telephone icon and follow prompts Jonathan Matkowsky - RiskIQ:I can type my comment Jonathan Matkowsky - RiskIQ:Not sure what the problem is with the mic, sorry about that Kathy Kleiman: @Mary... to the NOtes. I think it will help peopel remember this discussion. Mary Wong:@Susan, we have a link to the public comments and staff summary for the 2015 paper. I will check if I've uploaded it to the wiki. Jonathan Matkowsky - RiskIQ:I am on Adobe connect Jonathan Matkowsky - RiskIQ:In any case, I just wanted to promote transparency in the process Jonathan Matkowsky - RiskIQ:Perhaps an analogy can be made to prosecution of a specimen in the USPTO David McAuley (RySG):yes Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):a screenshot of the website (anyone can create one with offers of somethings non-existent) is a valid proof of use? https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.trademark-2Dclearin… Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:Can anyone weigh in on the process over time? did people experience troubles early on? did people have the same troubles recently? Did the issues change, get better, get worse? Was there a learning curve that the TMCH needed? Mary Wong:The contract is not published, but there is a summary framework that was published - I will try to find it. George Kirikos:If one eliminated proof of use, one would need to balance that with reduced benefits for TMCH recordals. Personally, the TMCH could be entirely eliminated if each national TM office had an automated API (some appear to have one, e.g. see aggregated search sites like TMview, https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.tmdn.org_tmview_we… George Kirikos:(registrars could then query national TM offices via APIs, and create the "notice" that way to domain name registrants) Marie Pattullo:@George: TMView is great, as a work in progress. It's still being developed (moved over to the ECP in the EUIPO) but it's really not reliable at the moment. Also TMView would never have the technical capability to interact with the registries. Mary Wong:Summary of Validation Framework agreement (Deloitte): https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__newgtlds.icann.org_en_… Lillian Fosteris:Kristine - I'd say the TMCH has been inconsistent in how stringent it is in its review of each TMCH registration (both errors in the TMCH submission and then whether the POU was accepted or not). For example, a lot of marks were marked as "Incorrect" a year after the marks were submitted and accepted to the TMCH. In some cases, there were errors in the TMCH information submitted originally and in other cases, the POU was marked as insufficient (even though it had been approved originally). So, I'd say a little bit of learning at the beginning, but generally an issue with consistency across marks and time. George Kirikos:@Marie: right. Perhaps the money would be better spent making that system more reliable (a "carrot" by ICANN to national TM offices), rather than trying to duplicate and reinvent things via the TMCH. Mary Wong:Summary of Database Framework agreement (IBM): https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__newgtlds.icann.org_en_… Lori Schulman:Not all TM offices requre proof of use upon initial registration Jeff Neuman (Valideus):@Kathy - You state "a llot of frustration in the community". Can you point to a source where the community has stated that they are frustrated? Lori Schulman:US is an outlier I think. It's been a while since I have done global registrations but I recall that standards vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):I wonder how transparent is a secret contract with ICANN (conflict of interests potentially exists) ? George Kirikos:Right, Lori. The "benefits" for TM holders would need to be scaled back accordingly (i.e. no more "first dibs" in sunrise). Jonathan Matkowsky - RiskIQ:Broad stakeholder discussions took place to develop the proof of userequirement, intended to ensure that all registered trademarks are treated equally inorder to be eligible to participate in Sunrise periods. Requirements related to proof usemay be taken into account as a larger topic for consideration in policy development andother community discussions. Lori Schulman:George, that is not the point. The point is that unique proof of use for sunrise makes sense since global practice varies. Jonathan Matkowsky - RiskIQ:This is from the 2015 Rights Protection Mechanisms Review Revised REport Marie Pattullo:@George - it's already funded but by the EUIPO - many, many carrots have been held out to the NPTOs under the new EUTMR and this is one of them... ;-). George Kirikos:i.e. if the goal of the TMCH is simply to reduce cybersquatting, increased notice to prospective registrants is a sufficient safeguard. Jumping to the front of the line (which is a "benefit" diminished in many ways due to "premium" pricing by registry operators in any event) should be an entirely separate discussion (one that I don't see as justified). Jonathan Matkowsky - RiskIQ:There's no mention of the concern of transparency or inconsistency George Kirikos:@Lori: I agree with you. George Kirikos:Since the average number of sunrise registrations is around 300 or so, the "actual" benefits to those companies routinely registering in all gTLDs (e.g. Apple, Microsoft, Google) are really small, when you think about it. Marie Pattullo:5 years to prove use in the EU. George Kirikos:*actual benefits overall, I mean (I'm sure those 300 companies like jumping to the front of the line) George Kirikos:Presumably the TMCH goes to shows run by folks like INTA, etc. to drum up business (i.e. "educate"). Kurt Pritz:Proactive: The TMCH conducts webinars for agents and also for individual TLDs to announce their sunrise periods David McAuley (RySG):very feint George Kirikos:Volume low for Kristine. David McAuley (RySG):that is better sound George Kirikos:Here's what a TMCH notice looks like: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__domainnamewire.com_2014… It doesn't seem to link to the TMCH itself for further details, etc. George Kirikos:(I don't register new gTLDs, so I've never seen one personally) Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:For sake for arguement: Education about notices still seem odd. The TMCH didn't write it. They are providing a token to the registrar who then displays a form notice. Mary Wong:Note that we have a specific Charter question (in a subsequent category) about outreach, at least w.r.t. developing countries: "How accessible is the TMCH Database and RPM Rights Protection Actions and Defenses to individuals, organizations and rights-holders; as well as trademark agents in developing countries?" Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:Yes, Susan, +1, thats that I was saying. Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):ICANN's part of TMCH? Lori Schulman:My response dove tails Susan's. I think that end users who receive notices probably do need education. Lori Schulman:But not necessarily TMCH Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:but the TMCH is a rather neutral provider of data. I think training for registrants would fall on ICANN, as directed by the community. Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):the language of the claim notice is horrible Lori Schulman:doing the training Lori Schulman:TM owners would agree that the language is horrible. Not clear. Lori Schulman:Confusing and inconsistent. Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:and how do you provide notice without giving legal advice Susan Payne:Kathy - that sounds like relevant feedback - perhaps you could ask them to subbmit it to the WG if we are to take it into account Jonathan Matkowsky - RiskIQ:https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.google.com_… Mary Wong:That is the final input from the Implementation Asssistance Group for the TMCH, I think Mary Wong:(Jonathan's link, I mean) George Kirikos:With ICANN staff away for their retreat, etc. next week, are we having a call next Wednesday? Mary Wong:2012 Mary Wong:This is the IAG Kathy Kleiman:Tx for the link! Mary Wong:That document has been uploaded to the TMCH information page on the WG wiki :) Paul Tattersfield:@George isn't it at the new time of 4.00am GMT? Terri Agnew 2:Next call: Review of all Rights Protection Mechanisms (RPMs) in all gTLDs PDP Working Group is scheduled for Wednesday, 25 January 2017 at 04:00 UTC for 60 minutes. Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):most people can not read in English , and it is a must to use it in the claim notice George Kirikos:So, that'll be Tuesday night Eastern time. Mary Wong:Staff will be available to staff the call but NamesCon may be a bigger problem Mary Wong:TMCH informational page: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_… (IAG report is the final entry under Operational Requirements) Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:What was the result of the straw poll staff sent around? George Kirikos:I'd vote to skip it....maybe have a vote? Susan Payne:unless we have no chairs I think we should proceed Griffin Barnett:@Maxim, I thought that Claims notices must be presented in English as well as the language of the domain name registration agreement but staff or others may be able to confirm this George Kirikos:Skip = Agree, Don't skip = disagree. Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:Nevermind. the straw poll was for a differnt group Mary Wong:@Griffin, correct Beth Allegretti:I'd also vote to skip it because of NamesCon Lori Schulman:George is multitasking... Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):if the first part in English - most do not scroll Susan Payne:why would we skip? routinely some people cannot make calls but we don't cancel Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:Agree to proceed George Kirikos:I can make it....won't affect me. Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):and the wording in rpm requirement - in English and in other language Paul Tattersfield:Agreee proceed Mary Wong:0400 UTC George Kirikos:Tuesday night eastern time (0400 UTC Wednesday) Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):bit early for EU Mary Wong:Evening/night for North America, daytime for APAC Terri Agnew 2:20:00 PST (Tuesday), 23:00 EST (Tuesday), 04:00 London,05:00 CET Kathy Kleiman:Our first meeting at the AP-friendly time. David McAuley (RySG):Thanks Phil, staff, all Jonathan Matkowsky - RiskIQ:Have a great day everyone! Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:thanks all1 George Kirikos:We should monitor the AP attendance next week, to see if folks from that region show up en masse. George Kirikos:(if not, perhaps rethink the time)

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Proposed agenda and materials for Working Group call on Wednesday 1 February 2017
by Mary Wong Feb. 1, 2017

Feb. 1, 2017

Dear all, The proposed agenda for our next Working Group meeting, scheduled for 1 February 2017 at 1700 UTC, is as follows: 1. Roll call (via Adobe Connect and phone bridge only) and updates to Statements of Interest 2. Summary of TMCH Category 1 discussion, including from the Working Group meeting last week (see further below) 3. Introductory discussion of TMCH Category 2 (see https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/58729944/Clean%20-%20TMCH%…) 4. Commence review of Deloitte’s response to the TMCH Data Gathering Sub Team’s questions, with a view toward additional follow up if needed (document circulated via email on 30 January, also available on the Working Group wiki at https://community.icann.org/x/_pHRAw) 5. Next steps/next meeting For Agenda Item #2, the following points and questions were highlighted in the discussion last week, for further discussion by the Working Group in relation to TMCH Charter Question 2 from Category 1 (Education): “Should the TMCH be responsible for educating rights-holders, domain name registrants and potential registrants about the services it provides? If so, how? If the TMCH is not to be responsible, who should be?” · Is it ICANN's responsibility rather than the TMCH's? Who else should be educated besides rights-holders? · TMCH has incentive and opportunity and has already reached out to its direct customers; but would mandating education raise fees? Not necessarily since they already have the materials · Should it be a community effort? How is this to be mandated (if at all)? · There is a limit on the extent of education a TMCH can provide on Sunrise, given the different types of Sunrise and the choices that a registry have on how to operate them. · Registries also have the option to extend the Claims Period, so they can do the education; maybe with ICANN as a "backup" if the registries and registrars do not. Note, however, that it is registrars who have the customer relationships. · How would it work (if the TMCH is to be responsible for education) if there are multiple TMCH providers in the future? · Look at how TMCH has done education in the past; ask if these communications were effective SUMMARY OF OPTIONS DISCUSSED: (1) ICANN to be neutral educator (at the very least, prepare materials?) (2) TMCH (and to extend beyond rights-holders) (3) Community efforts (4) A “hybrid model” of TMCH + ICANN (e.g. TMCH can post official materials on their site, created by ICANN. Note, however, that TMCH has no way of telling customers of any registry or registrar what their experience will be) Thanks and cheers Mary Mary Wong Senior Policy Director Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) Email: mary.wong(a)icann.org Telephone: +1-603-5744889

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FOR REVIEW & DISCUSSION: Response from Deloitte to TMCH Data Gathering Sub Team questions
by Mary Wong Jan. 31, 2017

Jan. 31, 2017

Dear all, Please find attached the response that Deloitte sent to ICANN staff, in reply to the list of questions developed by our TMCH Data Gathering Sub Team that was sent to Deloitte in December 2016. Please note that the Working Group co-chairs have not yet considered this document, which is being circulated to everyone to allow for review at your earliest convenience. You may wish to note also that the questions that Deloitte noted as being more pertinent to IBM (who is responsible for the TMCH Database) have been forwarded to IBM for its response. We will circulate that response when we receive it. In addition, please note that the monthly reports that Deloitte refers to as being sent to ICANN are published on this page: https://newgtlds.icann.org/en/about/trademark-clearinghouse/registries-regi…. As it is likely that the Working Group will wish to meet with Deloitte to follow up on this document as well as on other matters, staff has taken the liberty of enquiring if Deloitte representatives will be in Copenhagen for the ICANN58 meeting and available to meet with the Working Group. In the meantime, staff will assist the co-chairs in developing meeting agendas (including for those meetings leading up to ICANN58 in March) to take into account this latest document as well as the other documents for review (e.g. the responses received from various registry operators that was circulated previously). Thanks and cheers Mary Mary Wong Senior Policy Director Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) Email: mary.wong(a)icann.org Telephone: +1-603-5744889

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Mp3, Attendance & AC Chat for Review of all Rights Protection Mechanisms (RPMs) in all gTLDs PDP WG on 25 January 2017
by Michelle DeSmyter Jan. 25, 2017

Jan. 25, 2017

Dear All, Please find the attendance of the call attached to this email and the MP3 recording below for the Review of all Rights Protection Mechanisms (RPMs) in all gTLDs PDP Working Group call held on Wednesday, 25 January 2017 at 04:00 UTC. Attendance of the call is posted on agenda wiki page:https://community.icann.org/x/L53DAw MP3: http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-rpm-review-25jan17-en.mp3<http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-rpm-review-25jan17-en.mp3[mailer.samanage.…> <http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-rpm-review-25jan17-en.mp3[mailer.samanage.…> The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page:http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__gnso.icann.org_en_group…> ** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list ** Mailing list archives: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rpm-wg/ Wiki page: https://community.icann.org/x/L53DAw Thank you. Kind regards, Michelle DeSmyter Adobe Connect chat transcript for 25 January 2017: Michelle DeSmyter:Dear All, Welcome to the Review of all Rights Protection Mechanisms (RPMs) in all gTLDS PDP Working Group call on Wednesday, 25 January 2017 at 04:00 UTC. Michelle DeSmyter:Meeting page: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_… George Kirikos:Hi everyone. Michelle DeSmyter:Hello George! George Kirikos:Hi Michelle. George Kirikos:brb Petter Rindforth:God Morning! Mary Wong:Hello Laurie, Petter, George! Vaibhav Aggarwal, NCSG:Geeetings all Vaibhav Aggarwal, NCSG:hola George Kirikos:Hi Mary and Vaibhav. Mary Wong:Hi Vaibhav, Justine, Grace, J Scott and all! GraceM:Hi Mary. Hi everyone! Vaibhav Aggarwal, NCSG:Greetings Mary Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Hello All David McAuley (RySG):Hi Mary Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):7am for me Jonathan Agmon:Hello all David McAuley (RySG):is sound muffled for anyone else? Mary Wong:The follow up questions are also captured on the slides Mary Wong:On Q2, note that the follow up question from last week's call was, WHO should the TMCH (if it is the TMCH) be educating besides rights-holders? Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):+1 for education from ICANN (after all .. there are exceed funds from new gTLD program) Mary Wong:@Maxim, what to do with the auction proceeds from the 2012 New gTLD Program is the subject of a new Cross Community Working Group so it's not known at this time how those funds will be used. Jonathan Agmon:Would imposing educational duties on the TMCH mean an increase of their fees? Kathty Kleiman:@Jonathan: Since it would not require any additional "learning effort" on the part of the TMCH (they're already the experts), having additional educational materials available on their website shoulld not be much additional cost. Michael Flemming:I am all for the TMCH to educate rights holders, domain name registrants and potential registrants, but haven't they already been doing that? I worked with staff from the TMCH in order to help educate rights holders 3/4 years ago when this all started. We are in agreement that there is incentive opportunity, but there is a large cost associated with educating people. It has to be done in the right and correct way. Unless you communicate the need for the TMCH to rights holders, then none of them will buy into it. The initial impression of the TMCH that rights holders have is that new gTLDs and TMCH is too troublesome and it is easier to just not be associated with. I think we need to look at this as a community perspective, as well. Mary Wong:We save the chats, but encourage everyone to speak up so your remarks are captured in the recording and meeting transcript. Vaibhav Aggarwal, NCSG:@Jonathan Excellent Q. It will become an entry barrier for main nTLDs Vaibhav Aggarwal, NCSG:especially for Not-for-profitorgs Vaibhav Aggarwal, NCSG:@JSoctt Coomunity effortss Mary Wong:@Vaibhav, what do you mean by community efforts? Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:I don't oppose having the TMCH post official training materials on their site, once ICANN creates it. But the TMCH just has no way to tell the customers of any particular registry or registrar what their experience will be. Petter Rindforth:ICANN: Education, TMCH: Basic information Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):I think community does not have capacity or funds for education Mary Wong:Yes Vaibhav Aggarwal, NCSG:@Mary - Wile TMCH takes the lead, but the Registries shuld have equal participation Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:Perfect Heather Mary Wong:@Vaibhav, how do you mandate that? Or do you leave it to registries (and maybe registrars) to decide to do it? George Kirikos:ICANN/TMCH together can provide materials that the registrars convey to customers, in a hybrid. But, ultimately it's the registrars who deal with registrants. Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Registrars have contact with the Registrants who use TMCH, and Registries do not Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:Yes, the TMCH should educate on how to use their system. But the registrants do not use the TMCH, they experience "side effects." Vaibhav Aggarwal, NCSG:@Maxim @Mary If Registries chage a premium on Domain names then they ming keep a couple of $s for education & awareness on the side Vaibhav Aggarwal, NCSG:why all profit is to be Paid by the consumer ? Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:+1Maxim and registries develop sunrise policies. Mary Wong:@Maxim that is true for Claims, though not necessarily for Sunrise or Notice of Registered Name (NORN) after a registration matching a TMCH mark has taken place, right? Vaibhav Aggarwal, NCSG:& Registries act s agents of the educatinn for Registrants on behalf of Registries Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Vaibhav , TCMH is a product of new gTLD progam, and exceed funds are .. IMHO just unused for education (new gTLD awareness also) Mary Wong:@J Scott, ok Vaibhav Aggarwal, NCSG:Yes Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Mary , please do not mix technical interaction of computers and human interaction with customers (education of omputer API level does not work) Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):*computer API Kathty Kleiman:@Mary: I think Kristine's suggestion above is worth saving in our Notes. It's part of the Hybrid solution... Kathty Kleiman:... suggested by Heather and others. Mary Wong:@Kathy, sorry I missed it - can someone rephrase the Hybrid solution? Kathty Kleiman:TMCH + ICANN Mary Wong:We are expecting feedback from the TMCH Providers Mary Wong:Nothing yet received from any registrar George Kirikos:Here was Greg Shatan's comment: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rpm-wg/2017-January/000932.html Mary Wong:We will recirculate the folllow up questions to Q1 & 2 to the list, plus notes from today Kathty Kleiman:@Mary: as a note to the "hybrid," perhaps we could add Kristine's comment -- I don't oppose having the TMCH post official training materials on their site, once ICANN creates it. But the TMCH just has no way to tell the customers of any particular registry or registrar what their experience will be. Justine Chew:Q3 (a) --- https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.trademark-2Dclearin… Michael Flemming:Who are private parties? Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:We should seek anecdotal data for at least #2 as well. Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):IBM is technical part and they might educate about technical side only (and most probably we talk about legal part of interation) Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):so it looks like we need to ask Deloitte.. Mary Wong:Note that one of the questions that the TMCH Data Gathering Sub Team sent to the TMCH Providers concerned the number of private contracts they had for using the TMCH Vaibhav Aggarwal, NCSG:@Jscott You are away from the Mic please close up Vaibhav Aggarwal, NCSG:Npe Michael Flemming:Yes Vaibhav Aggarwal, NCSG:lost volume George Kirikos:Low volume, but I can hear you. Kathty Kleiman:I think that's right Heather Forrest:I heard you, J Scott Vaibhav Aggarwal, NCSG:yup David McAuley (RySG):better Michael Flemming:Loud and clear George Kirikos:(via the phone bridge) Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):I hear Mary Wong:The specific question asked of Deloitte and IBM was: "Can you tell us who is using the TMDB and under what circumstances (other than for providing the Sunrise and Claims Notice services required by ICANN)? How many "blocking"-type services are you supporting (e.g. protected marks lists), and with/for whom? Are you aware of other services that may be provided by registry operators using the TMDB other than via contract with you?" Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):just took look at the Russian page of https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.trademark-2Dclearin… - they should have used translators and not automated translation ...I hope the education is properly delivered not only in English Michael Flemming:Yes! Michael Flemming:Thank you. Mary Wong:We are expecting the TMCH Providers to provide us with their responses - I will follow up with my GDD colleagues to send a reminder Michael Flemming:I think the simple answer to this question is that information is available, but the quality of information is not very good. The best and fastest answer possible is to send it to the TMCH Providers. Vaibhav Aggarwal, NCSG:@Jscott : Y dont v get them here in the group and share their perspecctive Mary Wong:@Vaibhav, I believe that this is something the co-chairs are open to, depending on the actual responses we get. Michael Flemming:Because they're asleep :) Vaibhav Aggarwal, NCSG:@MicF ha ha ha good one Vaibhav Aggarwal, NCSG:Lets wake them from the Yellow pages ;-) Vaibhav Aggarwal, NCSG:@Marry Yes My Suggestion Vaibhav Aggarwal, NCSG::-) Kathty Kleiman:I like that idea! Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):we need to be sure that we have feedback from them Vaibhav Aggarwal, NCSG:Infact they could be a part of some Calls in order to Speed up the discussion on this Vaibhav Aggarwal, NCSG:Its like Interview 1 by 1 in order to set the perspective on the Qs right Vaibhav Aggarwal, NCSG:@Maxim Correct Vaibhav Aggarwal, NCSG:right Michael Flemming:Oh, I am pretty sure they will be there. Mary Wong::) Kathty Kleiman:It has been a long day!! Mary Wong:@J Scott, yes, staff will do that George Kirikos:Bye folks. George Kirikos::-) Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:LOL Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):bye all Vaibhav Aggarwal, NCSG:ha ha ha Kathty Kleiman:Good morning; good night! Mary Wong:Thanks everyone David McAuley (RySG):Good bye all Lillian Fosteris:Good night/good day! Heather Forrest:Thanks J Scott and Mary! Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:Thanks everyone, thanks J Scott! Vaibhav Aggarwal, NCSG:Thanks Guys have a good One GraceM:thank you all Vaibhav Aggarwal, NCSG:GNight

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Proposed agenda for Working Group call at 0400 UTC (Tuesday night for the Americas; Wednesday for EMEA & APAC)
by Mary Wong Jan. 24, 2017

Jan. 24, 2017

Dear all, For the Working Group call that will take place at 0400 UTC (around 8 hours from now – Tuesday night for some members and Wednesday for others), subject to further changes from our co-chairs, we will continue to discuss the TMCH Charter questions in Category 1 (Education) and return to the three registry responses we received to the TMCH Data Gathering Sub Team questions: 1. Roll call (via Adobe Connect and phone bridge only); updates to Statements of Interest 2. Continue discussion on TMCH Charter Questions Category 1 (see further below) 3. Continue review of Registry responses received to TMCH Data Gathering Sub Team questions (see https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/63151397/18.1%20Registry%2…) 4. Next steps/next meeting For Agenda Item #2, the discussion will focus on the follow up questions that were sent to this mailing list last week, i.e.: 1. On whether the TMCH is “clearly communicating” its criteria and process (including for submission of entries by rights holders and objections to specific entries and recordals in the TMCH): · It is possible that the TMCH Guidelines themselves (e.g. criteria and process for submission of entries) are clearly communicated – the problem could be with a perceived inconsistency of approach (e.g. it is not always clear what the grounds for rejecting submissions are) and an apparent piecemeal approach to implementation (e.g. it is not clear what else will be accepted as proof of use). Comments? · Has anyone reported or does anyone know if there has been any issue or trouble concerning multiple registrations of the same trademark by multiple trademark holders? · Can we get more information about what the TMCH’s “learning curve” has been between its establishment and initial operations, and now? · Is there any publicly-available information on how to object to TMCH entries and recordals? How can objections be lodged if the TMCH database is not publicly searchable? 2. On whether the TMCH should be responsible for education: · Who should the TMCH be educating besides rights holders – e.g. registrants, users, the community at large? You can find the full set of TMCH Charter questions here: https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/58729944/Clean%20-%20TMCH%… Thanks and cheers Mary From: Mary Wong <mary.wong(a)icann.org> Date: Thursday, January 19, 2017 at 07:44 To: "gnso-rpm-wg(a)icann.org" <gnso-rpm-wg(a)icann.org> Subject: Follow up from Working Group call on 18 January 2017 1. On whether the TMCH is “clearly communicating” its criteria and process (including for submission of entries by rights holders and objections to specific entries and recordals in the TMCH): · It is possible that the TMCH Guidelines themselves (e.g. criteria and process for submission of entries) are clearly communicated – the problem could be with a perceived inconsistency of approach (e.g. it is not always clear what the grounds for rejecting submissions are) and an apparent piecemeal approach to implementation (e.g. it is not clear what else will be accepted as proof of use). Comments? · Has anyone reported or does anyone know if there has been any issue or trouble concerning multiple registrations of the same trademark by multiple trademar holders? · Can we get more information about what the TMCH’s “learning curve” has been between its establishment and initial operations, and now? · Is there any publicly-available information on how to object to TMCH entries and recordals? How can objections be lodged if the TMCH database is not publicly searchable? 2. On whether the TMCH should be responsible for education: · Who should the TMCH be educating besides rights holders – e.g. registrants, users, the community at large?

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PLEASE CONSIDER A REPLY: Proposed Working Group call next week
by Mary Wong Jan. 19, 2017

Jan. 19, 2017

Dear Members, Those Members who were present at the Working Group meeting held earlier today agreed to go ahead with the meeting scheduled for next Wednesday. In view, however, of the fact that quite a few Members will be traveling to NamesCon at that time, coupled with its being the first meeting time that is rotating to 0400 UTC, it will be helpful if we can get a sense of how many Members will not be able to attend the meeting. As such, please take a moment to reply to me if you know you will NOT be on the call next Wednesday at 0400 UTC – note that there’s no need to Reply All or reply at all if you plan to be on the call. Thank you! Cheers Mary

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Follow up from Working Group call on 18 January 2017
by Mary Wong Jan. 19, 2017

Jan. 19, 2017

Dear all, As a follow up to the Working Group call held yesterday, please note that much of the informational materials referenced or requested on the call is available for viewing and download on our wiki pages, for example: · Community concerns as raised in public comments to various reports and papers published prior to our PDP (e.g. the 2015 RPM Staff Paper, our PDP Preliminary Issue Report, the 2011 Preliminary Issue Report on the Current State of the UDRP, and the 2009 Special Trademark Interests (STI) and Implementation Recommendations Team (IRT) reports): https://community.icann.org/x/4SWAAw · We have also created specific informational pages for each RPM that we are reviewing; for the TMCH, you can find operational, functional and other documents defining the scope of the TMCH (including the 2012 Implementation Assistance Group (IAG) report mentioned on the call), other background to the development of the TMCH, and current metrics and reports here: https://community.icann.org/x/0AusAw Several questions and observations emerged from the discussion yesterday, for which we hope discussion can be continued on this mailing list and the call next week. On the call, discussions focused on the first two questions under TMCH Charter Category 1 (Education). Please provide your further thoughts and comments on the following discussion points: 1. On whether the TMCH is “clearly communicating” its criteria and process (including for submission of entries by rights holders and objections to specific entries and recordals in the TMCH): · It is possible that the TMCH Guidelines themselves (e.g. criteria and process for submission of entries) are clearly communicated – the problem could be with a perceived inconsistency of approach (e.g. it is not always clear what the grounds for rejecting submissions are) and an apparent piecemeal approach to implementation (e.g. it is not clear what else will be accepted as proof of use). Comments? · Has anyone reported or does anyone know if there has been any issue or trouble concerning multiple registrations of the same trademark by multiple trademar holders? · Can we get more information about what the TMCH’s “learning curve” has been between its establishment and initial operations, and now? · Is there any publicly-available information on how to object to TMCH entries and recordals? How can objections be lodged if the TMCH database is not publicly searchable? 2. On whether the TMCH should be responsible for education: · Who should the TMCH be educating besides rights holders – e.g. registrants, users, the community at large? For those Members who were not on the call, you may wish to review the MP3 recording and meeting transcript to see the context and remarks relating to the above points. These – along with the slides that were used during the call - have been posted to the wiki page at: https://community.icann.org/x/JZ3DAw. Thanks and cheers Mary Mary Wong Senior Policy Director Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) Email: mary.wong(a)icann.org Telephone: +1-603-5744889

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FW: Input from Paul Keating about the three Category 1 TMCH Charter questions on the Working Group agenda today
by Mary Wong Jan. 18, 2017

Jan. 18, 2017

Dear all, As referenced by Kathy during the Working Group call held a short while ago, please find below the complete email from Working Group Member Paul Keating where he comments on the three questions that make up Category 1 (Education) of our TMCH review. Paul has confirmed that he had intended to share these comments with the full group. Cheers Mary From: Paul Keating <Paul(a)law.es> Date: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 at 11:31 Below I have attempted to provide some responses to the questions for the group’s consideration: For Agenda Item #2, the agreed Charter questions are: 1. Is the TMCH clearly communicating: (i) the criteria it applies when determining whether or not to accept marks for entry into the TMCH; (ii) options for rights-holders when their submissions are rejected; and (iii) options for third parties who may have challenges to or questions about recordals in the TMCH? PRK: I have no comment on (I) and (ii). However, as to (iii), there should be a method for challenging the registration given the brand spectrum of the use and power of the registration – not only to secure exclusivity as to domain name registrations but to potentially chill the registration of domain names in cases in which such registrations ado exist. 2. Should the TMCH be responsible for educating rights-holders, domain name registrants and potential registrants about the services it provides? If so, how? If the TMCH is not to be responsible, who should be? PRK: Yes. IMHO the TMCH has been less than stellar at education and relies too heavily upon registries/registrars and other third parties to do so. T His is not surprising given the background of its founders who launched .EU and .BE. In ADDITION (not in place of) the TMCH effort, ICANN should ensure that adequate information is published and that launches are accompanied with adequate information of not only the impact of the TMCH registrations but include information on how to challenge such registrations. 3. What information on the following aspects of the operation of the TMCH is available and where can it be found? (a) TMCH services; (b) Contractual relationships between the TMCH providers and private parties; PRK: There is little direct information to be found IMHO. This leads to a lack of actual or perceived transparency which should be disfavored. and (c) With whom does the TMCH share data and for what purposes? PRK: I would very much like to know the answer to this question. I would also like to know if access to the TMCH database by any third party is limited in any manner by contract. Once we have this information then we can consider an appropriate review and come forth with any relevant suggestions. Thank you, Paul Keating From: <gnso-rpm-wg-bounces(a)icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Mary Wong <mary.wong(a)icann.org<mailto:mary.wong@icann.org>> Date: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 at 7:49 AM To: "gnso-rpm-wg(a)icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org>" <gnso-rpm-wg(a)icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org>> Subject: [gnso-rpm-wg] Proposed agenda and materials for RPM Working Group call on 18 January 2017 Dear all, The proposed agenda for the next Working Group Members’ call on 18 January 2017 is as follows: 1. Roll call (via Adobe Connect and phone bridge only); updates to Statements of Interest 2. Overview and discussion of TMCH Charter questions, Category 1: Education (see further below) 3. [if time permits] Continue review of registry operator responses to data gathering request 4. Next steps/next meeting For Agenda Item #2, the agreed Charter questions are: 1. Is the TMCH clearly communicating: (i) the criteria it applies when determining whether or not to accept marks for entry into the TMCH; (ii) options for rights-holders when their submissions are rejected; and (iii) options for third parties who may have challenges to or questions about recordals in the TMCH? 2. Should the TMCH be responsible for educating rights-holders, domain name registrants and potential registrants about the services it provides? If so, how? If the TMCH is not to be responsible, who should be? 3. What information on the following aspects of the operation of the TMCH is available and where can it be found? (a) TMCH services; (b) Contractual relationships between the TMCH providers and private parties; and (c) With whom does the TMCH share data and for what purposes? Additional Notes on Agenda Item #2: ? You can find the full list of final TMCH Charter questions and their categories here: https://community.icann.org/x/2CWAAw[community.icann.org]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_…>. ? Staff has also compiled a wiki page containing background information, operational requirements and other relevant materials on the TMCH: https://community.icann.org/x/0AusAw[community.icann.org]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_…>. For Agenda Item #3, please refer to the compilation of responses received so far from 3 registry operators (attached for recirculation; a copy can also be downloaded from https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/61606228/Registry%20Respon…<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_do…>. Please note that the co-chairs and staff are working on getting the same questions out in a survey format, to see if additional responses may be forthcoming from other registry operators. Thanks and cheers Mary _______________________________________________ gnso-rpm-wg mailing list gnso-rpm-wg(a)icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rpm-wg

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Proposed agenda and materials for RPM Working Group call on 18 January 2017
by Mary Wong Jan. 18, 2017

Jan. 18, 2017

Dear all, The proposed agenda for the next Working Group Members’ call on 18 January 2017 is as follows: 1. Roll call (via Adobe Connect and phone bridge only); updates to Statements of Interest 2. Overview and discussion of TMCH Charter questions, Category 1: Education (see further below) 3. [if time permits] Continue review of registry operator responses to data gathering request 4. Next steps/next meeting For Agenda Item #2, the agreed Charter questions are: 1. Is the TMCH clearly communicating: (i) the criteria it applies when determining whether or not to accept marks for entry into the TMCH; (ii) options for rights-holders when their submissions are rejected; and (iii) options for third parties who may have challenges to or questions about recordals in the TMCH? 2. Should the TMCH be responsible for educating rights-holders, domain name registrants and potential registrants about the services it provides? If so, how? If the TMCH is not to be responsible, who should be? 3. What information on the following aspects of the operation of the TMCH is available and where can it be found? (a) TMCH services; (b) Contractual relationships between the TMCH providers and private parties; and (c) With whom does the TMCH share data and for what purposes? Additional Notes on Agenda Item #2: · You can find the full list of final TMCH Charter questions and their categories here: https://community.icann.org/x/2CWAAw. · Staff has also compiled a wiki page containing background information, operational requirements and other relevant materials on the TMCH: https://community.icann.org/x/0AusAw. For Agenda Item #3, please refer to the compilation of responses received so far from 3 registry operators (attached for recirculation; a copy can also be downloaded from https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/61606228/Registry%20Respon…) Please note that the co-chairs and staff are working on getting the same questions out in a survey format, to see if additional responses may be forthcoming from other registry operators. Thanks and cheers Mary

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ICANN Policy staff Workshop 23 - 27 January 2017
by Nathalie Peregrine Jan. 12, 2017

Jan. 12, 2017

Dear all, ICANN Policy staff will be holding its annual Policy Workshop in Los Angeles from Monday 23 January 2017 to Friday 27 January 2017. Staff will be replying to email requests, but there will be delays. Thank you for your understanding, GNSO SO/AC Support

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