- NA-Discuss - lists.icann.org

Re: [NA-Discuss] Followup -- secret meetings, ombudsman, etc.
by Garth Bruen at KnujOn Sept. 11, 2009

Sept. 11, 2009

That's great Evan, thanks! > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Followup -- secret meetings, ombudsman, etc. > From: Evan Leibovitch <evan(a)telly.org> > Date: Fri, September 11, 2009 10:30 am > To: Garth Bruen at KnujOn <gbruen(a)knujon.com> > Cc: NA Discuss <na-discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org>, At-Large Staff > <staff(a)atlarge.icann.org> > Garth Bruen at KnujOn wrote: > > Thanks for this work Evan, in reference to: > > > > <<staff has said (though not on the record) that he was disruptive to > > the meetings.>> > > > > What is "disruptive" anyway? This is sooooo subjective. > Agreed. But we won't know more until ICANN staff produces an > on-the-record response to his allegations. > In a private followup email, I specifically asked Richard, > "Did you do *anything* that might have been grounds for them to call > security? (ie, physical contact, meeting disruption, etc.)" > His prompt, on-the-record reply was (repeated verbatim), > "fuck no. i was the consumate professional. the only thing stacy > complained to me about was "you came in here and asked when the > meeting was without identifiying yourself!" > As of this moment, this, and Richard's blog entry are the only public > accounts of the ejection. The rebuttals I have heard have all been > hearsay and off-the-record. > > I think the Registrars were disruptive in a number of our working groups and presentations. Disruptive could just mean he asked questions they didn't want to answer. > > > Trying to be fair, it's my understanding that the meeting was about > process and not policy -- "how" rather than "why". If Richard went there > demanding answers to policy related issues, that was unreasonable and > unfair to the participants. However, we won't know the other side until > ICANN gives us one. > I am specifically asking from ICANN staff its on-the-record account of > why Richard Sexton was ejected. > - Evan

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Re: [NA-Discuss] Followup -- secret meetings, ombudsman, etc.
by Garth Bruen at KnujOn Sept. 11, 2009

Sept. 11, 2009

Thanks for this work Evan, in reference to: <<staff has said (though not on the record) that he was disruptive to the meetings.>> What is "disruptive" anyway? This is sooooo subjective. I think the Registrars were disruptive in a number of our working groups and presentations. Disruptive could just mean he asked questions they didn't want to answer. > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: [NA-Discuss] Followup -- secret meetings, ombudsman, etc. > From: Evan Leibovitch <evan(a)telly.org> > Date: Fri, September 11, 2009 1:46 am > To: NA Discuss <na-discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org> > Hello all. > Sorry I didn't get to this sooner, I've been both busy and a little ill. > The issue of the secret meetings -- touched off by my anger over the > non-announcement of regional ICANN meetings for contracted parties -- > was raised and significantly debated at the ALAC executive committee > earlier this week. > (There are as yet no minutes or transcripts on the meeting page at > https://st.icann.org/alac-excomm/index.cgi?08_september_2009) > In the discussion, a number points were raised that I found useful: > * There is significant anger over this in ALAC as previous secret > meetings have also been noted and the subject of complaint > * Going to the Ombudsman is seen to be a last-ditch effort which > angers everyone in the process yet will likely change little in itself > * Stories vary dramatically regarding Richard Sexton's behaviour and > subsequent removal from the Toronto meeting. He says he did > nothing wrong; staff has said (though not on the record) that he > was disruptive to the meetings. > * A new CEO and new respect for At-Large may affect the way we are > heard on such matters now > * All meeting issues are now under the watch of CFO Kevin Wilson, > who has been receptive to our issues so far > The ExComm suggested that we draft a letter for transmission to Kevin > and and Rod describing the unacceptable nature of these secret meetings. > Such a letter would have full support of ALAC (and probably other > regions should we want their endorsements). We would then meet with them > in Seoul to obtain an assurance that all ICANN-funded meetings will be > public. > We are also owed a detailed explanation regarding the ejection of > Richard Sexton. If Richard's account is correct, ICANN must be held > accountable. And if Richard's account is wrong, it requires an > on-the-record rebuttal. > (A related issue -- whether such regional meetings should be expanded to > cover At-Large face-to-face meetings -- is still to be dealt with, but > is part of ICANN;'s strategic plan and should not be mixed into the > immediate issue of secrecy and transparency.) > Alan has volunteered to word-craft the letter with my assistance. > The is the situation as I understand it. > - Evan > ------ > NA-Discuss mailing list > NA-Discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss_atlarge-lists.ic… > Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org > ------

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Followup -- secret meetings, ombudsman, etc.
by Evan Leibovitch Sept. 11, 2009

Sept. 11, 2009

Hello all. Sorry I didn't get to this sooner, I've been both busy and a little ill. The issue of the secret meetings -- touched off by my anger over the non-announcement of regional ICANN meetings for contracted parties -- was raised and significantly debated at the ALAC executive committee earlier this week. (There are as yet no minutes or transcripts on the meeting page at https://st.icann.org/alac-excomm/index.cgi?08_september_2009) In the discussion, a number points were raised that I found useful: * There is significant anger over this in ALAC as previous secret meetings have also been noted and the subject of complaint * Going to the Ombudsman is seen to be a last-ditch effort which angers everyone in the process yet will likely change little in itself * Stories vary dramatically regarding Richard Sexton's behaviour and subsequent removal from the Toronto meeting. He says he did nothing wrong; staff has said (though not on the record) that he was disruptive to the meetings. * A new CEO and new respect for At-Large may affect the way we are heard on such matters now * All meeting issues are now under the watch of CFO Kevin Wilson, who has been receptive to our issues so far The ExComm suggested that we draft a letter for transmission to Kevin and and Rod describing the unacceptable nature of these secret meetings. Such a letter would have full support of ALAC (and probably other regions should we want their endorsements). We would then meet with them in Seoul to obtain an assurance that all ICANN-funded meetings will be public. We are also owed a detailed explanation regarding the ejection of Richard Sexton. If Richard's account is correct, ICANN must be held accountable. And if Richard's account is wrong, it requires an on-the-record rebuttal. (A related issue -- whether such regional meetings should be expanded to cover At-Large face-to-face meetings -- is still to be dealt with, but is part of ICANN;'s strategic plan and should not be mixed into the immediate issue of secrecy and transparency.) Alan has volunteered to word-craft the letter with my assistance. The is the situation as I understand it. - Evan

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Re: [NA-Discuss] Lodging a complaint with the ICANN Ombudsman
by Garth Bruen at KnujOn Sept. 11, 2009

Sept. 11, 2009

I hear you > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Lodging a complaint with the ICANN Ombudsman > From: Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg(a)mcgill.ca> > Date: Thu, September 10, 2009 11:20 am > To: Garth Bruen at KnujOn <gbruen(a)knujon.com>, "John R. Levine" > <johnl(a)iecc.com> > Cc: NA Discuss <na-discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org> > There is an old adage about picking one's battles. John is saying > that this may not be a good one to pick. > Alan > At 10/09/2009 10:12 AM, Garth Bruen at KnujOn wrote: > >Sure, but allowing this to exist is a problem. Let's document it and > >publish it instead. > > > >------------------------------------- > >Collect, analyze, enforce, repeat... > > > >Garth Bruen > >gbruen(a)knujon.com > >http://www.knujon.com > >http://www.linkedin.com/pub/4/149/724 > > > >Tentative Presentations: > >Global Cyber Security Expo > >http://cyberexpo.memphis.edu/ > > > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > > Subject: RE: [NA-Discuss] Lodging a complaint with the ICANN Ombudsman > > > From: "John R. Levine" <johnl(a)iecc.com> > > > Date: Thu, September 10, 2009 9:04 am > > > To: Garth Bruen at KnujOn <gbruen(a)knujon.com> > > > Cc: NA Discuss <na-discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org>, Evan Leibovitch > > > <evan(a)telly.org> > > > > > > > > > > If that is the case, we should also complain to the board about that... > > > > > > I don't think that would be productive at this point, since Frank serves a > > > useful cover function for them. > > > > > > R's, > > > John > > > > > > >> -------- Original Message -------- > > > >> Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Lodging a complaint with the ICANN Ombudsman > > > >> From: "John R. Levine" <johnl(a)iecc.com> > > > >> Date: Wed, September 09, 2009 6:25 am > > > >> To: Evan Leibovitch <evan(a)telly.org> > > > >> Cc: NA Discuss <na-discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org> > > > >>> I would like to ask for the help -- or at least the endorsement -- of > > > >>> others within NARALO regarding the lodging of a complaint > > with the ICANN > > > >>> Ombudsman. > > > >> Don't waste your time. The Ombudsman is a fraud (although he doesn't > > > >> think he is.) Take it directly to the board. > > > >> R's, > > > >> John > > > > > >------ > >NA-Discuss mailing list > >NA-Discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > >http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss_atlarge-lists.ic… > > > >Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org > >------

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Re: [NA-Discuss] Lodging a complaint with the ICANN Ombudsman
by Alan Greenberg Sept. 10, 2009

Sept. 10, 2009

There is an old adage about picking one's battles. John is saying that this may not be a good one to pick. Alan At 10/09/2009 10:12 AM, Garth Bruen at KnujOn wrote: >Sure, but allowing this to exist is a problem. Let's document it and >publish it instead. > >------------------------------------- >Collect, analyze, enforce, repeat... > >Garth Bruen >gbruen(a)knujon.com >http://www.knujon.com >http://www.linkedin.com/pub/4/149/724 > >Tentative Presentations: >Global Cyber Security Expo >http://cyberexpo.memphis.edu/ > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > Subject: RE: [NA-Discuss] Lodging a complaint with the ICANN Ombudsman > > From: "John R. Levine" <johnl(a)iecc.com> > > Date: Thu, September 10, 2009 9:04 am > > To: Garth Bruen at KnujOn <gbruen(a)knujon.com> > > Cc: NA Discuss <na-discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org>, Evan Leibovitch > > <evan(a)telly.org> > > > > > > > If that is the case, we should also complain to the board about that... > > > > I don't think that would be productive at this point, since Frank serves a > > useful cover function for them. > > > > R's, > > John > > > > >> -------- Original Message -------- > > >> Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Lodging a complaint with the ICANN Ombudsman > > >> From: "John R. Levine" <johnl(a)iecc.com> > > >> Date: Wed, September 09, 2009 6:25 am > > >> To: Evan Leibovitch <evan(a)telly.org> > > >> Cc: NA Discuss <na-discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org> > > >>> I would like to ask for the help -- or at least the endorsement -- of > > >>> others within NARALO regarding the lodging of a complaint > with the ICANN > > >>> Ombudsman. > > >> Don't waste your time. The Ombudsman is a fraud (although he doesn't > > >> think he is.) Take it directly to the board. > > >> R's, > > >> John > > >------ >NA-Discuss mailing list >NA-Discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss_atlarge-lists.ic… > >Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org >------

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Re: [NA-Discuss] 7 September election for ALAC liaison to the ICANN Board
by Beau Brendler Sept. 10, 2009

Sept. 10, 2009

I guess I would say: The liaison position is, at the moment, a sure thing. The ICANN board position has yet to pass through any stage of implementation. It may take a long time before the ALAC or at-large is even ready to elect its representative to the board. So it would seem to me we should proceed as planned with the liaison election as scheduled, as we don't necessarily know how short the liaison term will end up being. Also, I think we should respond to the enthusiasm of several members of the ALAC (there are other candidates who have declared for the board liaison position in other regions) and hold elections. Beau -----Original Message----- >From: Danny Younger <dannyyounger(a)yahoo.com> >Sent: Sep 9, 2009 8:06 PM >To: NA Discuss <na-discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org> >Cc: beaubrendler(a)earthlink.net >Subject: 7 September election for ALAC liaison to the ICANN Board > >Beau, according to the NARALO's election page: > >(1) "One or more candidates for the position of ALAC liaison to the ICANN Board Election to start 7 September; candidates are Alan Greenberg, Seth Reiss and Wendy Seltzer." > >(2) "Unaffiliated members of NARALO are to achieve consensus regarding how their collective vote is to be cast. Beau Brendler is the representative for unaffiliated members." > >I'd like to ask this preliminary question before we "unaffiliated" members begin to caucus: > >Knowing that the ICANN Board has already decided that in the near future there will no longer be an at-large liason to the board (as we will instead have an at-large director), does it really make sense to elect someone to what will undoubtably be a term of very short duration? Wouldn't it make more sense to simply extend the term of the incumbent in view of these particular and unique circumstances? > > > > >

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Re: [NA-Discuss] Lodging a complaint with the ICANN Ombudsman
by Garth Bruen at KnujOn Sept. 10, 2009

Sept. 10, 2009

Sure, but allowing this to exist is a problem. Let's document it and publish it instead. ------------------------------------- Collect, analyze, enforce, repeat... Garth Bruen gbruen(a)knujon.com http://www.knujon.com http://www.linkedin.com/pub/4/149/724 Tentative Presentations: Global Cyber Security Expo http://cyberexpo.memphis.edu/ > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: RE: [NA-Discuss] Lodging a complaint with the ICANN Ombudsman > From: "John R. Levine" <johnl(a)iecc.com> > Date: Thu, September 10, 2009 9:04 am > To: Garth Bruen at KnujOn <gbruen(a)knujon.com> > Cc: NA Discuss <na-discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org>, Evan Leibovitch > <evan(a)telly.org> > > > > If that is the case, we should also complain to the board about that... > > I don't think that would be productive at this point, since Frank serves a > useful cover function for them. > > R's, > John > > >> -------- Original Message -------- > >> Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Lodging a complaint with the ICANN Ombudsman > >> From: "John R. Levine" <johnl(a)iecc.com> > >> Date: Wed, September 09, 2009 6:25 am > >> To: Evan Leibovitch <evan(a)telly.org> > >> Cc: NA Discuss <na-discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org> > >>> I would like to ask for the help -- or at least the endorsement -- of > >>> others within NARALO regarding the lodging of a complaint with the ICANN > >>> Ombudsman. > >> Don't waste your time. The Ombudsman is a fraud (although he doesn't > >> think he is.) Take it directly to the board. > >> R's, > >> John

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Re: [NA-Discuss] Lodging a complaint with the ICANN Ombudsman
by Garth Bruen at KnujOn Sept. 10, 2009

Sept. 10, 2009

If that is the case, we should also complain to the board about that... > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Lodging a complaint with the ICANN Ombudsman > From: "John R. Levine" <johnl(a)iecc.com> > Date: Wed, September 09, 2009 6:25 am > To: Evan Leibovitch <evan(a)telly.org> > Cc: NA Discuss <na-discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org> > > I would like to ask for the help -- or at least the endorsement -- of > > others within NARALO regarding the lodging of a complaint with the ICANN > > Ombudsman. > Don't waste your time. The Ombudsman is a fraud (although he doesn't > think he is.) Take it directly to the board. > R's, > John > ------ > NA-Discuss mailing list > NA-Discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss_atlarge-lists.ic… > Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org > ------

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7 September election for ALAC liaison to the ICANN Board
by Danny Younger Sept. 10, 2009

Sept. 10, 2009

Beau, according to the NARALO's election page: (1) "One or more candidates for the position of ALAC liaison to the ICANN Board Election to start 7 September; candidates are Alan Greenberg, Seth Reiss and Wendy Seltzer." (2) "Unaffiliated members of NARALO are to achieve consensus regarding how their collective vote is to be cast. Beau Brendler is the representative for unaffiliated members." I'd like to ask this preliminary question before we "unaffiliated" members begin to caucus: Knowing that the ICANN Board has already decided that in the near future there will no longer be an at-large liason to the board (as we will instead have an at-large director), does it really make sense to elect someone to what will undoubtably be a term of very short duration? Wouldn't it make more sense to simply extend the term of the incumbent in view of these particular and unique circumstances?

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Anonymity settings in Board Liaison balloting
by At-Large Staff Sept. 10, 2009

Sept. 10, 2009

Our apologies for leaving out an important point with respect to the balloting. You will notice that the vote settings are 'Not Anonymous'. The reason why the system is set this way is because if it was set to fully anonymous, it would not be possible to see a listing of those who have not voted until the voting was closed, thereby preventing us from reminding those who have not voted to do so. Your vote will not at any point be disclosed to anyone (unless you choose to forward the vote confirmation email the system sends to you after you vote to a third party). -- -- Regards, Nick Ashton-Hart, Heidi Ullrich, Matthias Langenegger, Gisella Gruber-White, Marie-Helene Bouchoms ICANN At-Large Staff email: staff(a)atlarge.icann.org

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