January 2011 - NA-Discuss - lists.icann.org

Re: [NA-Discuss] Forward motion on the Egyptian Internet shutdown
by Beau Brendler Feb. 1, 2011

Feb. 1, 2011

OK, let's put something on paper and vote on it. I don't have time today to draft something, but could probably do so tomorrow morning, unless someone else wants to take a stab in the meantime. Since I have not personally heard anything from ALAC members on this issue (except for Evan), I'm guessing we are intending to make a general NA statement that could be adapted by the at-large, and encourage the at-large to do so? BB -----Original Message----- >From: Marc Rotenberg <rotenberg(a)epic.org> >Sent: Jan 31, 2011 12:23 PM >To: Beau Brendler <beaubrendler(a)earthlink.net> >Cc: Thomas Lowenhaupt <toml(a)communisphere.com>, Gareth Shearman <shearman(a)victoria.tc.ca>, NA Discuss <na-discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org> >Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Forward motion on the Egyptian Internet shutdown > >But it's not paternalistic is we generalize from this >recent event and if we cite the mission of ALAC, >ICANN, and universal values . . . > >Marc. > >On Jan 31, 2011, at 12:21 PM, Beau Brendler wrote: > >> yes, that was my point -- not that cutting off access is a regional problem, but rather wanting NA to avoid looking unduly paternal >> >> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Marc Rotenberg <rotenberg(a)epic.org> >>> Sent: Jan 31, 2011 10:30 AM >>> To: Beau Brendler <beaubrendler(a)earthlink.net> >>> Cc: Thomas Lowenhaupt <toml(a)communisphere.com>, Gareth Shearman <shearman(a)victoria.tc.ca>, NA Discuss <na-discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org> >>> Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Forward motion on the Egyptian Internet shutdown >>> >>> I take Beau's point to be that it would be better if the statement >>> emerged from the RALO closest to the immediate problem. >>> But in some respects that could also lead to further politicization. >>> And the relevance for NA-RALO is clear -- one of key cyber security >>> proposals before the US Congress is the creation of an "Internet kill >>> switch." >>> >>> This is why we should try to generalize: cutting off access to the >>> Internet is not simply a regional problem. >>> >>> Marc. >>> >>> >>> On Jan 31, 2011, at 8:42 AM, Beau Brendler wrote: >>> >>>> OK, since this discussion took place on the NA list, help me with the next step, if there is one. >>>> >>>> Is the consensus that NA should draft a short statement? I would urge against it. Though I personally believe something should be said, it is for ALAC to make the move, and leadership of AF-RALO should take the lead -- and whether that means creating a statement, or urging ICANN as an organization to do something should also be specified. >>>> >>>> So the choices are: >>>> >>>> a) Make a short NA statement. >>>> b) Make no NA statement but vociferously tell the ALAC to make a statement and/or advise ICANN to do so. >>>> c) What? >>>> >>>> Beau >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Thomas Lowenhaupt <toml(a)communisphere.com> >>>>> Sent: Jan 31, 2011 12:36 AM >>>>> To: Gareth Shearman <shearman(a)victoria.tc.ca> >>>>> Cc: NA Discuss <na-discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org> >>>>> Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Fwd: The Internet Society on Egypt’s Internet shutdown >>>>> >>>>> +1 >>>>> >>>>> On 1/31/2011 12:32 AM, Gareth Shearman wrote: >>>>>> + 1 >>>>>> >>>>>> Gareth >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2011-01-30, at 8:45 PM, Avri Doria wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Well then we disagree. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For the more we discuss it, the more convinced I become that ICANN should make a statement declaring, at the very least, this sort of behavior to be incompatible with the well being of the Internet and contrary to international covenants related to freedom of information. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If ICANN is going to have credibility in its role as a steward of the Internet, it must not let this pass uncommented. If it does, then it will share responsibility for all future such action by virtue of its silence. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> John, I thank you for helping me see the issue more clearly. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> a. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 30 Jan 2011, at 23:30, John R. Levine wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> But certainly I think ICANN can describe what sorts of behavior is and is not appropriate and certainly I think that allocation policy can look at taking such behaviors into account. >>>>>>>> I am unalterably opposed to any proposal in which ICANN would purport to tell any government what to do. That just makes us look silly. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It's not like the Egyptian government is unaware of what they've done, after all. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> John Levine, johnl(a)iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", >>>>>>>> Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ------ >>>>>>> NA-Discuss mailing list >>>>>>> NA-Discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >>>>>>> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org >>>>>>> ------ >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------ >>>>>> NA-Discuss mailing list >>>>>> NA-Discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >>>>>> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss >>>>>> >>>>>> Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org >>>>>> ------ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> ------ >>>>> NA-Discuss mailing list >>>>> NA-Discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >>>>> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss >>>>> >>>>> Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org >>>>> ------ >>>> >>>> >>>> ------ >>>> NA-Discuss mailing list >>>> NA-Discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >>>> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss >>>> >>>> Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org >>>> ------ >>> >> >

7 8

Fwd: The Internet Society on Egypt’s Internet shutdown
by Eric Brunner-Williams Feb. 1, 2011

Feb. 1, 2011

via Dmitry Burkov. We are following the current events in Egypt with concern as it appears that all incoming and outgoing Internet traffic has been disrupted. The Internet Society believes that the Internet is a global medium that fundamentally supports opportunity, empowerment, knowledge, growth, and freedom and that these values should never be taken away from individuals. The Internet Society considers this recent action by the Egyptian government to block Internet traffic to be an inappropriate response to a political crisis. It is a very serious decision for a government to block all Internet access in its country, and a serious intrusion into its citizens’ basic rights to communicate. If the blockage continues, it will have a very detrimental impact on Egypt’s economy and society. Ultimately, the Egyptian people and nation are the ones that will suffer, while the rest of the world will be worse off with the loss of Egyptian voices on the net. However we are most concerned about the safety and security of the Egyptian people. Alongside the rest of the world, we share the hope for a positive and lasting solution to the problems that have risen to the surface there. In the longer term, we are sure that the world will learn a lesson from this very unfortunate example, and come to understand that cutting off a nation’s access to the Internet only serves to fuel dissent and does not address the underlying causes of dissatisfaction. Text Ends. This is something that matters. The government of Nepal shut down network access in 2005. The government of Burma significantly reduced network access in 2005, and again in 2007. I attended the November 2008 ICANN meeting in Cairo, as did some other participants in NARALO. About 25 million people live in Cairo alone. When we were there two years ago a plurality, if not a majority of people I observed in domestic class hotels and malls had cell phones. WiFi hot spots were available all around the ICANN venue area, and more importantly, in central Cairo, the area that is shown on CNN and Al Jazeera today. Internet access is a big part of Egyptian urban society. As my friend Barry Shein, who also attended the Cairo meeting, writes: "I was curious about [Press Secretary Robert Gibb's characterization of the demonstrators as having middle class aspirations] having wandered around Cairo. The protesters looked to me like middle-class Egyptians as opposed to galabeah (sp?) wearing working class." I suggest that the NARALO leadership draft a statement on the public interest value of public network access, free of interruption, and also free of deep packet inspection, by governments. Eric

12 38

Fwd: Re: Connectivity status for Egypt
by Eric Brunner-Williams Jan. 31, 2011

Jan. 31, 2011

Noor is now down too and the stockmarket, up today at 2pm Cairo time (when I checked to see the market close -- it never opened), is now down. See Beckstrom's blog entry: http://blog.icann.org/2011/01/status-report-on-the-dns-in-egypt He mentions two policy issues -- TTL expiry, and extra-territoriality of secondary(ies), and goes out of his way to invoke a ccNSO policy development outcome. http://stat.ripe.net/egypt/ shows another big spike today when Noor.net was pulled. Eric -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: Connectivity status for Egypt Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 17:51:04 -0500 From: Marshall Eubanks <tme(a)americafree.tv> To: Danny O'Brien <danny(a)spesh.com> CC: nanog(a)nanog.org On Jan 31, 2011, at 5:41 PM, Danny O'Brien wrote: > On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 2:14 PM, Marshall Eubanks <tme(a)americafree.tv>wrote: > >> As an update, BGP for Noor.net has been withdrawn. Even the Egyptian stock >> exchange - egyptse.com - now appears to be off the Internet. >> >> > Yep, Noor is now down. Collateral damage from all of this, as detailed in http://blog.icann.org/2011/01/status-report-on-the-dns-in-egypt/ is that the Arabic script top-level domain .masr (مصر) has been unavailable since the 27th, since it is is operated by NTRA of Egypt. Regards Marshall > > Those on the ground with Noor DSL in Cairo contacted their front line > support, and they're saying "technical problems" that will take a few hours > to fix. > > Does anyone has a list of routes that are still up, and seem to correlate > with Egyptian locations? Andree's last list is here: > http://bgpmon.net/egypt-routes-jan29-2011.txt > > I'm staring at looking glass output to check these remaining routes, and > that seems unfair on both those offering those free services, and my own > sanity... > > d. > > > >> DNS for egyptse.com also appears to be down, but Noor.net is definitely >> withdrawn : >> >> dig www.noor.net >> >> ; <<>> DiG 9.6.0-APPLE-P2 <<>> www.noor.net >> ;; global options: +cmd >> ;; Got answer: >> ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 15709 >> ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 2, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0 >> >> ;; QUESTION SECTION: >> ;www.noor.net. IN A >> >> ;; ANSWER SECTION: >> www.noor.net. 503 IN CNAME noor.net. >> noor.net. 503 IN A 217.139.227.20 >> >> show ip bgp 217.139.227.20 >> % Network not in table >> >> >> Marshall >> >> >> >> On Jan 28, 2011, at 4:37 PM, Franck Martin wrote: >> >>> If I'm correct, in 2000 in Fiji, the main fiber optic cable from the >> national provider to the international provider was sabotaged, cutting all >> communications. Fortunately an Alcatel team was on the island (SCC >> commissioning) with the right tools and could splice it back in a few hours, >> otherwise Fiji would have gone dark for days... >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Joe Abley" <jabley(a)hopcount.ca> >>> To: "Marshall Eubanks" <tme(a)americafree.tv> >>> Cc: nanog(a)nanog.org >>> Sent: Saturday, 29 January, 2011 7:32:07 AM >>> Subject: Re: Connectivity status for Egypt >>> >>> >>> On 2011-01-28, at 11:33, Marshall Eubanks wrote: >>> >>>> On Jan 28, 2011, at 11:24 AM, Jared Mauch wrote: >>>> >>>>> I have seen nation state disconnects where light is lost. >>>> >>>> I believe that was the case for Burma, for example. >>> >>> It was not the case in Nepal in 2005 though, if I remember correctly. In >> that case connectivity to the outside was maintained, but access to that >> connectivity by people inside the country was curtailed. >>> >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >

2 1

Re: [NA-Discuss] Forward motion on the Egyptian Internet shutdown
by Beau Brendler Jan. 31, 2011

Jan. 31, 2011

yes, that was my point -- not that cutting off access is a regional problem, but rather wanting NA to avoid looking unduly paternal -----Original Message----- >From: Marc Rotenberg <rotenberg(a)epic.org> >Sent: Jan 31, 2011 10:30 AM >To: Beau Brendler <beaubrendler(a)earthlink.net> >Cc: Thomas Lowenhaupt <toml(a)communisphere.com>, Gareth Shearman <shearman(a)victoria.tc.ca>, NA Discuss <na-discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org> >Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Forward motion on the Egyptian Internet shutdown > >I take Beau's point to be that it would be better if the statement >emerged from the RALO closest to the immediate problem. >But in some respects that could also lead to further politicization. >And the relevance for NA-RALO is clear -- one of key cyber security >proposals before the US Congress is the creation of an "Internet kill >switch." > >This is why we should try to generalize: cutting off access to the >Internet is not simply a regional problem. > >Marc. > > >On Jan 31, 2011, at 8:42 AM, Beau Brendler wrote: > >> OK, since this discussion took place on the NA list, help me with the next step, if there is one. >> >> Is the consensus that NA should draft a short statement? I would urge against it. Though I personally believe something should be said, it is for ALAC to make the move, and leadership of AF-RALO should take the lead -- and whether that means creating a statement, or urging ICANN as an organization to do something should also be specified. >> >> So the choices are: >> >> a) Make a short NA statement. >> b) Make no NA statement but vociferously tell the ALAC to make a statement and/or advise ICANN to do so. >> c) What? >> >> Beau >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Thomas Lowenhaupt <toml(a)communisphere.com> >>> Sent: Jan 31, 2011 12:36 AM >>> To: Gareth Shearman <shearman(a)victoria.tc.ca> >>> Cc: NA Discuss <na-discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org> >>> Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Fwd: The Internet Society on Egypt’s Internet shutdown >>> >>> +1 >>> >>> On 1/31/2011 12:32 AM, Gareth Shearman wrote: >>>> + 1 >>>> >>>> Gareth >>>> >>>> >>>> On 2011-01-30, at 8:45 PM, Avri Doria wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> Well then we disagree. >>>>> >>>>> For the more we discuss it, the more convinced I become that ICANN should make a statement declaring, at the very least, this sort of behavior to be incompatible with the well being of the Internet and contrary to international covenants related to freedom of information. >>>>> >>>>> If ICANN is going to have credibility in its role as a steward of the Internet, it must not let this pass uncommented. If it does, then it will share responsibility for all future such action by virtue of its silence. >>>>> >>>>> John, I thank you for helping me see the issue more clearly. >>>>> >>>>> a. >>>>> >>>>> On 30 Jan 2011, at 23:30, John R. Levine wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>> But certainly I think ICANN can describe what sorts of behavior is and is not appropriate and certainly I think that allocation policy can look at taking such behaviors into account. >>>>>> I am unalterably opposed to any proposal in which ICANN would purport to tell any government what to do. That just makes us look silly. >>>>>> >>>>>> It's not like the Egyptian government is unaware of what they've done, after all. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> John Levine, johnl(a)iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", >>>>>> Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------ >>>>> NA-Discuss mailing list >>>>> NA-Discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >>>>> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss >>>>> >>>>> Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org >>>>> ------ >>>>> >>>> >>>> ------ >>>> NA-Discuss mailing list >>>> NA-Discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >>>> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss >>>> >>>> Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org >>>> ------ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> ------ >>> NA-Discuss mailing list >>> NA-Discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >>> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss >>> >>> Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org >>> ------ >> >> >> ------ >> NA-Discuss mailing list >> NA-Discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss >> >> Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org >> ------ >

2 1

Forward motion on the Egyptian Internet shutdown
by Beau Brendler Jan. 31, 2011

Jan. 31, 2011

OK, since this discussion took place on the NA list, help me with the next step, if there is one. Is the consensus that NA should draft a short statement? I would urge against it. Though I personally believe something should be said, it is for ALAC to make the move, and leadership of AF-RALO should take the lead -- and whether that means creating a statement, or urging ICANN as an organization to do something should also be specified. So the choices are: a) Make a short NA statement. b) Make no NA statement but vociferously tell the ALAC to make a statement and/or advise ICANN to do so. c) What? Beau -----Original Message----- >From: Thomas Lowenhaupt <toml(a)communisphere.com> >Sent: Jan 31, 2011 12:36 AM >To: Gareth Shearman <shearman(a)victoria.tc.ca> >Cc: NA Discuss <na-discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org> >Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Fwd: The Internet Society on Egypt’s Internet shutdown > >+1 > >On 1/31/2011 12:32 AM, Gareth Shearman wrote: >> + 1 >> >> Gareth >> >> >> On 2011-01-30, at 8:45 PM, Avri Doria wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Well then we disagree. >>> >>> For the more we discuss it, the more convinced I become that ICANN should make a statement declaring, at the very least, this sort of behavior to be incompatible with the well being of the Internet and contrary to international covenants related to freedom of information. >>> >>> If ICANN is going to have credibility in its role as a steward of the Internet, it must not let this pass uncommented. If it does, then it will share responsibility for all future such action by virtue of its silence. >>> >>> John, I thank you for helping me see the issue more clearly. >>> >>> a. >>> >>> On 30 Jan 2011, at 23:30, John R. Levine wrote: >>> >>>>> But certainly I think ICANN can describe what sorts of behavior is and is not appropriate and certainly I think that allocation policy can look at taking such behaviors into account. >>>> I am unalterably opposed to any proposal in which ICANN would purport to tell any government what to do. That just makes us look silly. >>>> >>>> It's not like the Egyptian government is unaware of what they've done, after all. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> John Levine, johnl(a)iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", >>>> Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly >>>> >>> >>> ------ >>> NA-Discuss mailing list >>> NA-Discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >>> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss >>> >>> Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org >>> ------ >>> >> >> ------ >> NA-Discuss mailing list >> NA-Discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss >> >> Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org >> ------ >> >> >> >------ >NA-Discuss mailing list >NA-Discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss > >Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org >------

5 4

Re: [NA-Discuss] Forward motion on the Egyptian Internet shutdown
by Garth Bruen at KnujOn Jan. 31, 2011

Jan. 31, 2011

I would say ask AFRALO first, see what they're talking about, if they have a plan, can can we support their plan. > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: [NA-Discuss] Forward motion on the Egyptian Internet shutdown > From: Beau Brendler <beaubrendler(a)earthlink.net> > Date: Mon, January 31, 2011 8:42 am > To: Thomas Lowenhaupt <toml(a)communisphere.com>, Gareth Shearman > <shearman(a)victoria.tc.ca> > Cc: NA Discuss <na-discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org> > > > OK, since this discussion took place on the NA list, help me with the next step, if there is one. > > Is the consensus that NA should draft a short statement? I would urge against it. Though I personally believe something should be said, it is for ALAC to make the move, and leadership of AF-RALO should take the lead -- and whether that means creating a statement, or urging ICANN as an organization to do something should also be specified. > > So the choices are: > > a) Make a short NA statement. > b) Make no NA statement but vociferously tell the ALAC to make a statement and/or advise ICANN to do so. > c) What? > > Beau > > > -----Original Message----- > >From: Thomas Lowenhaupt <toml(a)communisphere.com> > >Sent: Jan 31, 2011 12:36 AM > >To: Gareth Shearman <shearman(a)victoria.tc.ca> > >Cc: NA Discuss <na-discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org> > >Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Fwd: The Internet Society on Egypt’s Internet shutdown > > > >+1 > > > >On 1/31/2011 12:32 AM, Gareth Shearman wrote: > >> + 1 > >> > >> Gareth > >> > >> > >> On 2011-01-30, at 8:45 PM, Avri Doria wrote: > >> > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> Well then we disagree. > >>> > >>> For the more we discuss it, the more convinced I become that ICANN should make a statement declaring, at the very least, this sort of behavior to be incompatible with the well being of the Internet and contrary to international covenants related to freedom of information. > >>> > >>> If ICANN is going to have credibility in its role as a steward of the Internet, it must not let this pass uncommented. If it does, then it will share responsibility for all future such action by virtue of its silence. > >>> > >>> John, I thank you for helping me see the issue more clearly. > >>> > >>> a. > >>> > >>> On 30 Jan 2011, at 23:30, John R. Levine wrote: > >>> > >>>>> But certainly I think ICANN can describe what sorts of behavior is and is not appropriate and certainly I think that allocation policy can look at taking such behaviors into account. > >>>> I am unalterably opposed to any proposal in which ICANN would purport to tell any government what to do. That just makes us look silly. > >>>> > >>>> It's not like the Egyptian government is unaware of what they've done, after all. > >>>> > >>>> Regards, > >>>> John Levine, johnl(a)iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", > >>>> Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly > >>>> > >>> > >>> ------ > >>> NA-Discuss mailing list > >>> NA-Discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > >>> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss > >>> > >>> Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org > >>> ------ > >>> > >> > >> ------ > >> NA-Discuss mailing list > >> NA-Discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > >> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss > >> > >> Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org > >> ------ > >> > >> > >> > >------ > >NA-Discuss mailing list > >NA-Discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > >https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss > > > >Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org > >------ > > > ------ > NA-Discuss mailing list > NA-Discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss > > Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org > ------

1 0

Re: [NA-Discuss] Geographic Regions Statement
by Evan Leibovitch Jan. 30, 2011

Jan. 30, 2011

Eric, Enough. Any point you've been trying to make in your long description has been obliterated by a level of personal insult this list hasn't seen in a long time - if ever. You owe Darlene an apology. You also have yet to make any connection whatsoever between your stories of disenfranchisement and how ICANN would benefit from having just one region for the americas rather than two. But if you intend to answer me like you did Darlene, don't bother. - Evan (sent from my Android phone) On 2011-01-27 8:46 PM, "Eric Brunner-Williams" <ebw(a)abenaki.wabanaki.net> wrote: Evan, Get yourself straight any way you can, the exclusion of Mexico from North America ensures that Anglophones, and perhaps the token Francophone (singular), will be preferentially selected every time ICANN attempts to meet a regional diversity goal. This leaves 50 million residents of the United States and Canada, only represented through a second European language. I pointed out the fact that the Greenland Home Rule government, while a dependency of the Danish State, is an Indigenous government of the Americas. This drew a confused response from Darlene Thompson who apparently confuses governments, like the one she works for, with immigrant non-European languages. The geographic region issue is about iso3166 states, not languages, and the exclusion of Mexico from "North America" is as irrational as putting Greenland or Quebec in "Europe". I pointed out the fact that migration has changed the largest indigenous language in the US from Dine (Navajo) to Nahuatl, Mixtex and Zapotec, approximating the unified Ojib-Crees in Canada as a group, and separating Indigenous migrants along the hyper-militarized US frontier is as absurd as Canada's refusal to abide by the Jay Treaty (1794), allowing free passage of Indians between the US and Canada. This drew the surprising 21st-century-Indians-speak-English response from John Levine, utterly missing the importance of language and cultural de-assimilation to assimilated Indians, and the reality that Indian migrants from Indian communities in Mexico retain locality in North America, due to the ease of first-language and shared values. I don't know what to do with mention-Indians-get-Hindi. I don't know what to do with mention-migration-get-English-only either. I do know that today Jefferson Keel, Chickasaw Nation, delivered the State of Indian Nations address, and today is a really lame ass day to subordinate Indian interests to non-Indian interests, for something as ephemeral as the ITU boogie man, or Anglo self-preference. I understand most of NARALO is Anglophone, and Anglophones have their issues with non-Anglophones, but where I grew up Spanish was as common as English and was Mexico until the middle of the 19th century. My pointing out that Indians are structurally overlooked by ICANN's North American centric structure hasn't changed that a wit in ten years. Mexican Indians are Indians. It doesn't do Indians in the Americas a wit of good to ignore the largest population of Indians in the Americas north of Panama, or ignore the largest population of Indians speaking Indian languages in the United States. Eric

11 18

Re: [NA-Discuss] Geographic Regions Statement
by Beau Brendler Jan. 28, 2011

Jan. 28, 2011

I sort of hesitated joining this discussion until now, because it's not my area of expertise, but what Avri said strikes a chord in me that says, we should do it: NA RALO also supports investigating ways to increase the participation of Indigenous populations, especially those whose cultural territory cuts across regional boundaries. I mean, there are a lot of sovereign Indian nations within the United States, with varying degrees of self-identification with the U.S. or North America. I think making a statement that we are aware of this, and want to investigate doing something about it, is the right thing to do. Beau -----Original Message----- >From: Thomas Lowenhaupt <toml(a)communisphere.com> >Sent: Jan 28, 2011 5:02 AM >To: NA Discuss <na-discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org> >Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Geographic Regions Statement > >Regarding the Geographic Regions Statement, three points: > >1. Knowing shamefully little about indigenous peoples, I draw your >attention to those possibly trans-national/regional peoples that inhabit >the most northern part of our planet. How can the DNS serve their needs? > >2. In primary school (in the 1950s) I was taught there were 3 continents >in this part of the world, North, South, and Central America. I suspect >this might have been to separate us from the somewhat less northern >Europeans to the south of Texas. > >3. Living in a Spanish speaking section of North America, and able now >to drive an automobile to South America, and with trade in goods and >culture increasingly shared between north and south, I think it would be >good to begin thinking of us a one region. > >Tom Lowenhaupt >Jackson Heights, New York > >On 1/28/2011 12:08 AM, Avri Doria wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Not wanting to get into 1,2 or more Americas issue. >> >> But do want to bring up the issue of indigenous populations whatever the region. I have been working with indigenous population in Europe, the Sámi, for years. They are not represented in Euralo any more than the populations that Eric is referring to are represented in Naralo, though there may be individual members of those populations participating >> >> Just as the Island populations are looking for a cross-regional way to get representation, is there any value, or interest, in looking at ways to obtain cross-regional representation for Indigenous populations. If there is interest in this within the RALO, would this be worth adding to the statement? Something like: >> >> Naralo also supports investigating way to increase the participation of Indigenous populations, especially those whose cultural territory cuts across regional boundaries. >> >> >> a. >> >> >> >> ------ >> NA-Discuss mailing list >> NA-Discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss >> >> Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org >> ------ >> >> >> >------ >NA-Discuss mailing list >NA-Discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss > >Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org >------

1 0

Geographic Regions Statement
by Thompson, Darlene Jan. 28, 2011

Jan. 28, 2011

Hi all, I am just checking, here. The deadline for regional comments is tomorrow night on the Geographic Regions Statement. Here is the link to the comments made by other regions: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/Interim+Report+of+Geographic+Re… Do we wish to submit a comment on this? D Darlene A. Thompson CAP Administrator N-CAP/Department of Education P.O. Box 1000, Station 910 Iqaluit, NU X0A 0H0 Phone: (867) 975-5631 Fax: (867) 979-5610 dthompson(a)gov.nu.ca

7 23

DOODLE / NARALO Showcase Preparation call
by ICANN At-Large Staff Jan. 28, 2011

Jan. 28, 2011

Dear All, Please complete the attached Doodle poll to schedule a call in preparation for the NARALO Showcase to be held at the ICANN Silicone Valley meeting in San Francisco. http://doodle.com/g9m2utfrz8q4nq2i This Doodle poll will close on Friday 21 January 2011 at 1700 UTC – the date and time will be announced shortly thereafter. Thank you. Regards, Heidi Ullrich, Matthias Langenegger, Seth Greene, Gisella Gruber-White, Marilyn Vernon, Kristina Nordström ICANN At-Large Staff

1 5