- NA-Discuss - lists.icann.org

Re: [NA-Discuss] [At-Large] Geographic diversity in the NARALO
by Nick Ashton-Hart May 21, 2007

May 21, 2007

John and Alan, I stand corrected on the Bylaw provision. That said, the requirement of different countries is present in all the other regional MoUs. As to your point about relative population, this could have been said in other regions as well. China and India could have argued this point in Asia, others in LAC, others still in Europe. Nobody has done so. At the UN, voting could be based upon population, or economic output, GDP, or other statistics but it is not; it is based upon the one country, one vote principle. That is the principle which the 'residents or nationals' provision seeks to continue in ICANN. ICANN, as everyone knows, has in the past been criticised for being too US-centric, and also too Western-centric, as well as too English-centric. I would ask you all to consider the message that would be sent if North America were to adopt less diversity guarantees than any other region. 'One man, one vote' is widely admired as a fundamentally important principle. In international relations, the equivalent principle of 'one country, one vote' is also equally fundamentally important. I have a query in on the geographic diversity provision and the different countries question. I'll let everyone know what I hear back... On 19/05/07, John L <johnl(a)iecc.com> wrote: > > Article 5.4.1 of our current MOU states: > > > > "Selected individuals must be individual members or members of different > > At-Large Structures based in different countries in the North American > > region, and they may not be citizens of the same country." > > Well, OK, now it's not in the bylaws, now it's in the proposed MOU. I'm > getting the impression this is a rule that someone made up one day and > said "it's always been that way." ICANN evidently places no requirements > on RALO appointed members other than that they be residents of the region. > > As I hardly need to remind people, the NA region consists, unlike any > other region, of only two countries, one of which is ten times as > populous as the other. While I think it is important to encourage > geographic diversity, I don't think anyone would favor a rule that > required that one member always be from Califonia. Yet California has the > same population as Canada. When the Nomcom member is from Canada (who, > incidentally, I think is doing a fine job, this isn't about him), this > rule would in effect give Canadians twenty times the per capita vote of > Americans. > > I would adjust that section to say: > > "Selected individuals must be individual members or members of different > At-Large Structures based the North American region. To the maximum > extent feasible, the selected individuals should represent the geographic > and cultural diversity of the region." > > > Regards, > John Levine, johnl(a)iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", > Information Superhighwayman wanna-be, http://www.johnlevine.com, ex-Mayor > "More Wiener schnitzel, please", said Tom, revealingly. > -- -- Regards, Nick Ashton-Hart PO Box 32160 London N4 2XY United Kingdom UK Tel: +44 (20) 8800-1011 USA Tel: +1 (202) 657-5460 Fax: +44 (20) 7681-3135 mobile: +44 (7774) 932798 Win IM: ashtonhart(a)hotmail.com / AIM/iSight: nashtonhart(a)mac.com / Skype: nashtonhart Online Bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashtonhart

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odd unsubscription messages which came through recently
by Nick Ashton-Hart May 21, 2007

May 21, 2007

Dear all: I thought I would let you know what the issue was with the unsubscription messages that many received recently. I deleted the forwarder which at one time forwarded emails between the regional lists. Unfortunately I didn't delete all parts of this, and so the removal notifications flowed through the lists. Operator error - sorry again for the fright. -- -- Regards, Nick Ashton-Hart PO Box 32160 London N4 2XY United Kingdom UK Tel: +44 (20) 8800-1011 USA Tel: +1 (202) 657-5460 Fax: +44 (20) 7681-3135 mobile: +44 (7774) 932798 Win IM: ashtonhart(a)hotmail.com / AIM/iSight: nashtonhart(a)mac.com / Skype: nashtonhart Online Bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashtonhart

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Re: [NA-Discuss] [At-Large] Reason for NO vote for Telecommunities Canada's ALS application
by Nick Ashton-Hart May 21, 2007

May 21, 2007

Danny: That is one way to interpret these provisions, but it is not the only way to do so. I refer you to the proposal presented to the ALAC in these respects some months ago, emailed to the At-Large regional lists, and due to be debated in San Juan. On 21/05/07, Danny Younger <dannyyounger(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > Luc, > > The ICANN bylaws stipulate: > > The criteria and standards for the certification of > At-Large Structures shall be established in such a way > that participation by individual Internet users who > are citizens or residents of countries within the > Geographic Region of the RALO will predominate in the > operation of each At-Large Structure within the RALO > > Telecommunities Canada describes itself as a sort of > "holding company" comprised of multiple organizational > members whose activities predominate in the operation > of TC; individual Internet users (remember them?) are > not the predominant factors in TC's operation (per > their own admission). > > Alan was correct in rejecting their application. The > better question is why did others approve the > application that was deficient on its face? > > > --- Luc Faubert <LFaubert(a)conceptum.ca> wrote: > > > Hi Alan, > > > > May I ask why you voted NO for Telecommunities > > Canada's ALS application? > > > > Telecommunities Canada is one of the (if not the) > > foremost organizations > > doing work related to the Internet in Canada. TC has > > been working > > tirelessly for almost 15 years, advancing the cause > > of Internet use and > > penetration in Canada. > > > > Regards, > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > Luc Faubert > > Conseiller en gouvernance TI et en gestion du > > changement / > > IT governance and change management consulting > > +1 514 236 5129 > > www.LucFaubert.com > > www.LucFaubert.com/blog > > www.isoc.qc.ca > > www.ccig.ca > > www.uqbm.qc.ca > > www.maillons.qc.ca > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NA-Discuss mailing list > > NA-Discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > > > http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss_atlarge-lists.ic… > > --- > > Draft MoU with ICANN: > > http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_MOU > > > > Draft Operating Principles: > > http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_OP > > > > Draft Code of Conduct: > > http://www.icannwiki.org/NARALO_Code_of_Conduct > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting > > _______________________________________________ > ALAC mailing list > ALAC(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org > > At-Large Official Site: http://www.alac.icann.org > ALAC Independent: http://www.icannalac.org > -- -- Regards, Nick Ashton-Hart PO Box 32160 London N4 2XY United Kingdom UK Tel: +44 (20) 8800-1011 USA Tel: +1 (202) 657-5460 Fax: +44 (20) 7681-3135 mobile: +44 (7774) 932798 Win IM: ashtonhart(a)hotmail.com / AIM/iSight: nashtonhart(a)mac.com / Skype: nashtonhart Online Bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashtonhart

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Please kill the NA-ALS list
by Wendy Seltzer May 21, 2007

May 21, 2007

I'm now getting bounce messages as people attempt duplicate postings in response to messages sent there. We all agreed we had no need for the NA-ALS list. Thanks. --Wendy -- Wendy Seltzer -- wendy(a)seltzer.org Visiting Fellow, Oxford Internet Institute Fellow, Berkman Center for Internet & Society http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/seltzer.html http://www.chillingeffects.org/

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Re: [NA-Discuss] Legal hooks in the MOU
by Nick Ashton-Hart May 19, 2007

May 19, 2007

Dear All: I refer you to the email I forwarded you from the General Counsel's office on 14th April. The view of the GC on that issue has not changed from April 14th to the present. No prudent group of directors, or staff members - especially those with a fiduciary responsibility to the company they work for - would be likely to agree to unlimited liability and open themselves to legal action from anyone from a group of hundreds of millions of people. A complete analysis of the provisions of the draft MoU has as I promised been prepared. It is being reviewed by the GCs office now, and is due to be cleared and then forwarded to all of you on Thursday of next week. The clauses which Wendy has created are referenced in detail and may elaborate on my paragraph above referenced when finalised. On 19/05/07, Wendy Seltzer <wendy(a)seltzer.com> wrote: > I replaced what I thought were important terms in the draft MoU. Let me > explain further why I think they're important. > > > 6.4 Enforcement. In recognition of the considerable time and effort expended by the signing organizations, ICANN agrees that its obligations are legally enforceable in the courts [or arbitral forums] of [jurisdiction]. In the event of breach, ICANN shall be liable for the relying parties' costs and fees. > > I think we want this to be more than just pretty words on paper (or > screen), but a set of enforceable obligations to which groups can hold > ICANN. This language specifies the recourse in case of breach. > > > 6.5 Third-party beneficiaries. This agreement is made for the benefit of the general public. Individual Internet users are its intended beneficiaries, and its terms are expressly enforceable by any member of the public. > > The At-Large is supposed to be the mechanism by which the public has > input to and participation in ICANN, say the Bylaws. If we're creating > a RALO, we should be trying to give the public as many channels as the > structure allows -- including, where necessary, the channel of legal > enforcement. Third-party beneficiary clauses are the standard way to > express that public-benefit aspect. > > Unfortunately, past experience with ICANN suggests that legal action is > the most effective means to get ICANN's attention and action. For > recent examples, ICANN did not respond to the RegisterFly crisis until > a class action lawsuit was filed. ICANN renewed Verisign's contract, > allowing price increases that harm the end-user, after Verisign filed suit. > > I'm not suggesting that we sue ICANN, but leaving that option available > to us or to others strengthens our bargaining position far short of > litigation. > > These legal "hooks" could provide much greater opportunity for real > progress by this RALO and the public. > > Thanks, > --Wendy > > -- > Wendy Seltzer -- wendy(a)seltzer.org > Visiting Fellow, Oxford Internet Institute > Fellow, Berkman Center for Internet & Society > http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/seltzer.html > http://www.chillingeffects.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > NA-Discuss mailing list > NA-Discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss_atlarge-lists.ic… > --- > Draft MoU with ICANN: > http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_MOU > > Draft Operating Principles: > http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_OP > > Draft Code of Conduct: > http://www.icannwiki.org/NARALO_Code_of_Conduct > -- -- Regards, Nick Ashton-Hart PO Box 32160 London N4 2XY United Kingdom UK Tel: +44 (20) 8800-1011 USA Tel: +1 (202) 657-5460 Fax: +44 (20) 7681-3135 mobile: +44 (7774) 932798 Win IM: ashtonhart(a)hotmail.com / AIM/iSight: nashtonhart(a)mac.com / Skype: nashtonhart Online Bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashtonhart

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Re: [NA-Discuss] [At-Large] Geographic diversity in the NARALO
by Nick Ashton-Hart May 19, 2007

May 19, 2007

On 19/05/07, John L <johnl(a)iecc.com> wrote: > > As to your point about relative population, this could have been said > > in other regions as well. China and India could have argued this point > > in Asia, others in LAC, others still in Europe. Nobody has done so. > > Right. All of the other regions have more countries than seats. NA is > different. > How would that be different? The other regions seek to guarantee that no one country can monopolise the ALAC seats. That is what the provisions they have adopted effectively does. It would have the same effect in North America. > > English-centric. I would ask you all to consider the message that > > would be sent if North America were to adopt less diversity guarantees > > than any other region. > > No other region has language that guarantees seats to specific countries. > That's about the most anti-diversity approach I can imagine. > That's one way to interpret it. The other is that requiring different countries to be represented guarantees that BOTH countries in the region have a seat at the table. > R's, > John > -- -- Regards, Nick Ashton-Hart PO Box 32160 London N4 2XY United Kingdom UK Tel: +44 (20) 8800-1011 USA Tel: +1 (202) 657-5460 Fax: +44 (20) 7681-3135 mobile: +44 (7774) 932798 Win IM: ashtonhart(a)hotmail.com / AIM/iSight: nashtonhart(a)mac.com / Skype: nashtonhart Online Bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashtonhart

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May ALS Applications Vote Results
by Nick Ashton-Hart May 18, 2007

May 18, 2007

Dear At-Large Community: On behalf of the At-Large Advisory Committee, I'm please to report the the results of the ALS Application vote for the month of May. Note that all ALS applications in this round were approved, with the exception of: Slovenian Consumers Association (ZPS) National Consumers League These applications were not rejected, however; they will need to be the subject of another vote. The reason is that as the Bylaws of ICANN provide, at least 9 votes must be cast for an application to be accredited or not accredited. Since the total votes cast is calculated as the sum of 'Yes' and 'No' votes), and in the case of these two applications the number of abstentions was so great that only 7 actual votes were cast for Slovenian Consumers Association, and only 3 for National Consumers League, an insufficient number of votes requires a revote to be held. Those who have abstained will of course identify the information that they require in order to reach a voting position and at that point the vote will be retaken. Each candidate organisation has been separately notified of the results of the voting and provided with information relevant to their situation as per usual today. Please extend a hearty welcome to the newest members of the At-Large world! Detailed Report: May 2007 ALS Application Vote Results Report date: Fri 18 May 2007 09:18 BST No Vote Received: Annette Muehlberg Should Alberta Community Network Association (ACNA) be accredited? As at: Mon 14 May 2007 13:00 BST Number of voters: 12 Number of Votes: 11 Answer Count % of Vote Voters Yes 11 100.00 Alice Wanjira-Munyua, Izumi Aizu, Siavash Shahshahani, Vittorio Bertola, Carlos Aguirre, Jacqueline Morris, Jose Ovidio Salgueiro, Alan Greenberg, Cheryl Langdon-orr, Hawa Diakite, Mohamed El Bashir No 0 0.00 Abstain 1 Wendy Seltzer Should Association for Community Networking (AFCN) be accredited? As at: Mon 14 May 2007 13:00 BST Number of voters: 12 Number of Votes: 11 Answer Count % of Vote Voters Yes 11 100.00 Alice Wanjira-Munyua, Izumi Aizu, Siavash Shahshahani, Vittorio Bertola, Carlos Aguirre, Jacqueline Morris, Jose Ovidio Salgueiro, Alan Greenberg, Cheryl Langdon-orr, Hawa Diakite, Mohamed El Bashir No 0 0.00 Abstain 1 Wendy Seltzer Should Slovenian Consumers Association (ZPS) be accredited? As at: Mon 14 May 2007 13:00 BST Number of voters: 12 Number of Votes: 7 Vote Count % of Vote Voters Yes 7 100.00 Alice Wanjira-Munyua, Izumi Aizu, Vittorio Bertola, Jacqueline Morris, Alan Greenberg, Cheryl Langdon-orr, Mohamed El Bashir No 0 0.00 Abstain 5 Siavash Shahshahani, Carlos Aguirre, Jose Ovidio Salgueiro, Wendy Seltzer, Hawa Diakite Should Telecommunities Canada be accredited? As at: Mon 14 May 2007 13:00 BST Number of voters: 12 Number of Votes: 9 Vote Count % of Vote Voters Yes 7 77.77 Alice Wanjira-Munyua, Izumi Aizu, Vittorio Bertola, Jacqueline Morris, Jose Ovidio Salgueiro, Hawa Diakite, Mohamed El Bashir No 2 22.23 Carlos Aguirre, Alan Greenberg Abstain 3 Siavash Shahshahani, Wendy Seltzer, Cheryl Langdon-orr Should Consumers Protection Centre (KEPKA) be accredited? As at: Mon 14 May 2007 13:00 BST Number of voters: 12 Number of Votes: 9 Vote Count % of Vote Voters Yes 9 100.00 Alice Wanjira-Munyua, Izumi Aizu, Siavash Shahshahani, Vittorio Bertola, Carlos Aguirre, Jacqueline Morris, Alan Greenberg, Cheryl Langdon-orr, Hawa Diakite No 0 0.00 Abstain 3 Jose Ovidio Salgueiro, Wendy Seltzer, Mohamed El Bashir Should EFN be accredited? As at: Mon 14 May 2007 13:00 BST Number of voters: 12 Number of Votes: 11 Answer Votes % Voters Yes 11 100.00 Alice Wanjira-Munyua, Izumi Aizu, Siavash Shahshahani, Vittorio Bertola, Carlos Aguirre, Jacqueline Morris, Jose Ovidio Salgueiro, Alan Greenberg, Cheryl Langdon-orr, Hawa Diakite, Mohamed El Bashir No 0 0.00 Abstain 1 Wendy Seltzer Should National Consumers' League be accredited? As at: Mon 14 May 2007 13:00 BST Number of voters: 12 Number of Votes: 3 Answer Votes % Voters Yes 3 100.00 Siavash Shahshahani, Vittorio Bertola, Jacqueline Morris No 0 0.00 Abstain 9 Alice Wanjira-Munyua, Izumi Aizu, Carlos Aguirre, Jose Ovidio Salgueiro, Alan Greenberg, Wendy Seltzer, Cheryl Langdon-orr, Hawa Diakite, Mohamed El Bashir Should Consumer Reports Webwatch be accredited? As at: Mon 14 May 2007 13:00 BST Number of voters: 12 Number of Votes: 9 Answer Votes % Voters Yes 9 100.00 Alice Wanjira-Munyua, Izumi Aizu, Siavash Shahshahani, Vittorio Bertola, Jacqueline Morris, Alan Greenberg, Cheryl Langdon-orr, Hawa Diakite, Mohamed El Bashir No 0 0.00 Abstain 3 Carlos Aguirre, Jose Ovidio Salgueiro, Wendy Seltzer Should Internauta Brasil be accredited? As at: Mon 14 May 2007 13:00 BST Number of voters: 12 Number of Votes: 11 Answer Votes % Voters Yes 11 100.00 Alice Wanjira-Munyua, Izumi Aizu, Siavash Shahshahani, Vittorio Bertola, Carlos Aguirre, Jacqueline Morris, Jose Ovidio Salgueiro, Alan Greenberg, Cheryl Langdon-orr, Hawa Diakite, Mohamed El Bashir No 0 0.00 Abstain 1 Wendy Seltzer Should ISOC Burundi be accredited? As at: Mon 14 May 2007 13:00 BST Number of voters: 12 Number of Votes: 11 Answer Votes % Voters Yes 11 100.00 Alice Wanjira-Munyua, Izumi Aizu, Siavash Shahshahani, Vittorio Bertola, Carlos Aguirre, Jacqueline Morris, Jose Ovidio Salgueiro, Alan Greenberg, Cheryl Langdon-orr, Hawa Diakite, Mohamed El Bashir No 0 0.00 Abstain 1 Wendy Seltzer _______________________________________________ ALAC-Internal mailing list ALAC-Internal(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac-internal_atlarge- lists.icann.org ALAC Wiki: http://st.icann.org/alac ALAC Official: http://alac.icann.org ALAC Independent: http://www.icannalac.org

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October 2007 Meeting Location Announced
by Nick Ashton-Hart May 18, 2007

May 18, 2007

http://www.icann.org/announcements/announcement-17may07.htm Location of Third ICANN Meeting for 2007 17 May 2007 ICANN advises that the public meeting scheduled to be held from 29 October through 2 November 2007 will take place in Los Angeles, California, USA. ICANN holds three public meetings each year. The location of these meetings are rotated through the five ICANN regions and selected on the basis of proposals received from various local groups interested in hosting the meeting. The announced region for the location of the October 2007 meeting was Asia Pacific. A review of proposals from two potential hosts determined that it was not possible to proceed at this time due to various logistical issues. ICANN examined a number of non-hosted locations in the Asia Pacific in attempt to adhere to the Asia Pacific rotation. Again, for reasons of logistics, cost and seasonal demand, it proved extremely difficult to find a location. Given this situation it has been decided to locate this meeting in Los Angeles. Without a host this maximizes the capacity of staff to resource the event in an efficient and economical way. The location is also a major travel hub and the quantity of hotel accommodation means that this should prove to be a less expensive meeting than some other options. ICANN recognizes that, following the upcoming meeting in San Juan, Puerto Rico, this means two meetings in a row held in the United States. As a result, ICANN today is posting a request for proposal to host ICANN meetings in 2008, as well as the dates and rotations for meetings to be held in 2009 and 2010. As part of this posting, ICANN has modified the rotation to designate the region for the first meeting in 2008 as Asia Pacific. The next scheduled North American meeting has been removed from the rotation. Due to the increased participation at the ICANN meetings, significant changes have been made to the requirements to host an ICANN meeting, with ICANN assuming more responsibility for planning and finances. Proposals to host the three 2008 meetings will be accepted through 15 June 2007. The 2008 – 2010 meeting rotation schedule can be found at http:// www.icann.org/meetings/ and the request for proposal to host ICANN meetings in 2008 can be found at http://www.icann.org/meetings/rfp/ rfp-2007.htm. Questions regarding hosting a meeting should be addressed to the ICANN meeting staff at meeting(a)icann.org. -- Regards, Nick Ashton-Hart Director, At-Large ICANN PO Box 32160 London N4 2XY United Kingdom Main Tel: +44 (20) 8800-1011] USA Tel: +1 (202) 657-5460 Fax: +44 (20) 7681-3135 mobile: +44 (7774) 932798 email: nick.ashton-hart(a)icann.org Win IM: ashtonhart(a)hotmail.com / AIM/iSight: nashtonhart(a)mac.com / Skype: nashtonhart Online Bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashtonhart

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Re: [NA-Discuss] [Fwd: [NA-ALS] You have been unsubscribed from the ALAC mailing list]
by Nick Ashton-Hart May 18, 2007

May 18, 2007

A false alarm. A few people have received them, but when I check, I find that everyone is still subscribed. On 17/05/07, Bret Fausett <bfausett(a)internet.law.pro> wrote: > what happened here? > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: [NA-ALS] You have been unsubscribed from the ALAC mailing list > Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 08:19:45 -0400 > From: alac-bounces(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > To: alac-forwarder(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > NA-ALS mailing list > NA-ALS(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-als_atlarge-lists.icann.… > > Draft MoU with ICANN: > http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_MOU > > Draft Operating Principles: > http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_OP > > Draft Code of Conduct: > http://www.icannwiki.org/NARALO_Code_of_Conduct > > > > _______________________________________________ > NA-Discuss mailing list > NA-Discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss_atlarge-lists.ic… > --- > Draft MoU with ICANN: > http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_MOU > > Draft Operating Principles: > http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_OP > > Draft Code of Conduct: > http://www.icannwiki.org/NARALO_Code_of_Conduct > -- -- Regards, Nick Ashton-Hart PO Box 32160 London N4 2XY United Kingdom UK Tel: +44 (20) 8800-1011 USA Tel: +1 (202) 657-5460 Fax: +44 (20) 7681-3135 mobile: +44 (7774) 932798 Win IM: ashtonhart(a)hotmail.com / AIM/iSight: nashtonhart(a)mac.com / Skype: nashtonhart Online Bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashtonhart

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[Fwd: [NA-ALS] You have been unsubscribed from the ALAC mailing list]
by Bret Fausett May 17, 2007

May 17, 2007

what happened here? -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [NA-ALS] You have been unsubscribed from the ALAC mailing list Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 08:19:45 -0400 From: alac-bounces(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org To: alac-forwarder(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org _______________________________________________ NA-ALS mailing list NA-ALS(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-als_atlarge-lists.icann.… Draft MoU with ICANN: http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_MOU Draft Operating Principles: http://www.icannwiki.org/NA_RALO_OP Draft Code of Conduct: http://www.icannwiki.org/NARALO_Code_of_Conduct

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