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Fwd: Re: [GTLD-WG] Resignation from co-chair and group
by Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond Jan. 31, 2014

Jan. 31, 2014

Dear colleagues, please be so kind to find my acknowledgement of Avri's resignation from the new gTLD Working Group. Kind regards, Olivier -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [GTLD-WG] Resignation from co-chair and group Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2014 01:37:28 +0100 From: Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond <ocl(a)gih.com> To: Avri Doria <avri(a)acm.org>, "gtld-wg(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org" <gtld-wg(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org> Dear Avri, Thank you for your note of resignation which I must sadly acknowledge. I am indeed sad to learn that priorities mean you have to go from a working group which had been credited with a leadership of your calibre. Often-times with the reality of life, it is indeed a choice that we all have to make. The years you have devoted leading this group have been pivotal in the history of At-Large and a significant part of At-Large's improved output and recognition is due to your work, your leadership and guidance - and you should therefore take this to your credit. On a more personal note, I once told you something paraphrased as "with you Chairing this WG, I have no worries about At-Large being sharp on the new gTLD process" - and sharp it was. Thank you for the great Team Work! I have announced your resignation on the ALAC Monthly call on Tuesday 28 January 2014 and a formal vote of thanks was passed by acclamation for your extensive contributions to this community. Bravo! Evan Leibovitch the Working Group's other excellent Co-Chair will assure continuity. He already has a lot on his plate and I leave it to him and the WG on whether they wish to select another co-Chair. Nonetheless, thank you for allowing the smooth transition. Kudos to you, in the hope you'll never be too far away. My colleagues and I wish you every success in the future. Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond ALAC Chair On 28/01/2014 17:16, Avri Doria wrote: > Dear Folks, > > As I start to fall behind on some of my work, including this group and > a book I am trying to write, I have realized that my freetime is > overloaded with volunteer work and I need to cut back. > > In looking at the things I do, this group was among those that needs a > lot more bandwidth from me than I am able to give. This is not new > news, I said the same thing when I sent out a plea for a co-chair last > year. Well I have a co-chair, but that did not really change anything, > it just made it more confusing about who had to do stuff and when. > > Also, when I looked and saw that this group was mostly composed of > leaders who have no need of a leader, just of more workers, I decided > that since I do not have the bandwidth to do the work I should not > stand in the way of perhaps someone else who can do the work. And it > will be one less thing I feel guilty about not having done yet. > > I sent a letter to the chair of the ALAC and my co-chair yesterday > informing them of my decision. I have not heard back from them, but > have decided you all should hear it from me. > > So I am resigning from the group and as a result also from the > co-chair of the group. I wish you all well in completing whatever > parts of the project you are interested in completing. > > Thanks > > avri > _______________________________________________ > GTLD-WG mailing list > GTLD-WG(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gtld-wg > > Working Group direct URL: > https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/New+GTLDs >

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Volunteer to Draft a Statement
by Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro Jan. 28, 2014

Jan. 28, 2014

Hi Olivier and ALAC, Further to the call for volunteers to draft statements or hold the pen. Happy to volunteer to draft a statement on the Review of Trusted Community Representation in Root Zone DNSSEC Key Signing Ceremonies<https://community.icann.org/display/alacpolicydev/At-Large+Review+of+Truste…> . This is of course unless someone else wants to hold the pen on this. Kind Regards, Sala

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On TOR and Alternate DNS
by Garth Bruen Jan. 27, 2014

Jan. 27, 2014

Hello all, I have been looking to introduce some discussion subjects which are becoming more critical in our space but have been considered off-limits or even taboo by some in the ICANN world. While in BA Glenn and I met with Patrik Falstrom from SSAC to talk about TOR and other topics. For those who do not know The Onion Routing (TOR) is a system that provides additional privacy or obscurity to Internet communications by extending and blurring the network path. The regular DNS, of course, works by using the shortest, best-known traffic paths for quick communication and keeps extensive logs in various places for troubleshooting. While this method makes sense for effective data movement it also exposes Internet users to spying, stalking, interception, etc. TOR works in the opposite way by dropping information using very long network routes to make source identification nearly impossible. This presents challenges as well as opportunities. Most of the media attention about TOR has been on the illicit side, how criminals have used it to conduct illegal commerce in secret. However, there are a large number of people who depend on TOR to protect their identity for completely legitimate reasons. This week I met with Kelley Misata from the TOR Project in Boston who has championed the use of this technology for various victims and people under threat. I think it is important for us as policy-makers to have open discussions about this technology. As far as it relates to ICANN, TOR represents an alternate method of Internet communications. While there is no domain system, TOR issues what it calls "domains" in the form of unique strings which bind to IP addresses and serve content through those unique strings. These "domains" can only be reached with TOR. There is no governing body, registry system, or costs for these "domains." Yes, it is confusing as to how TOR can look like a DNS but not be a DNS, others can explain it much better than me. Additionally, there are other DNS roots out there which ICANN has no authority over. These roots have been created for a variety of purposes and I have complied a list of over 600 "unsanctioned" TLDs which can be accessed with different configurations. I have proposed that at the Singapore meeting we have a session where these topics can be presented and discussed for our benefit and awareness. I will add this as a discussion item on the next NARALO call and propose it be discussed on the next ALAC call. Thanks, Garth ------------------------------------- Garth Bruen gbruen(a)knujon.com If history is deprived of the Truth, we are left with nothing but an idle, unprofitable tale -Polybius

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Feedback Requested on the Arabic Script Generation Panel Proposal for the Root Zone
by Rinalia Abdul Rahim Jan. 24, 2014

Jan. 24, 2014

Dear Colleagues, The Task Force on Arabic Script IDNs (TF-AIDN) is requesting feedback on the Arabic Script Generation Panel Proposal for the Root Zone (Proposal for Generation Panel for Arabic Script Label Generation Ruleset for the Root Zone<https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/43976436/Arabic%20Script%2…>). Please send comments to ArabicGP(a)icann.org by 12 February 2014. The Task Force invites comments on the proposal and welcomes new members. Interested parties can apply to join the Task Force by emailing a CV and Statement of Interest to tf-aidn-admin(a)meswg.org. Heads-Up: The At-Large IDN Working Group Meeting in March 2014 (during ICANN's 49th Public Meeting in Singapore) will include an update and discussion with the Task Force (and possibly other Generation Panels) and will also touch on the topic of universal acceptance of IDNs. *Brief Background* The Arabic script is used for writing a diverse set of languages spoken across the Middle East, North Africa, Sub-Saharan Africa, South Asia, West Asia and East Asia. The languages include Arabic, Malay, Pashto, Persian, Punjabi, Sindhi, Seraiki, Torwa and Urdu. The Task Force was established as a response to ICANN's call for interested language communities to form Generation Panels that work on developing proposals on Label Generation Rules (LGR) for the Root Zone pertaining to specific scripts. The status of ICANN's Root Zone Label Generation Rules Project can be found here: https://community.icann.org/display/croscomlgrprocedure/Project+Status+Upda…. Other language communities currently working on forming Generation Panels include the Han script community (Chinese, Japanese, Korean), Neo-Brahmi and Cyrillic. Best regards, Rinalia Abdul Rahim Vice Chair, ICANN At-Large IDN Working Group Executive Council Member, ISOC Malaysia Chapter

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Re: [ALAC] [At-Large] Reference: ICC Ruling on Objections filed by the ALAC
by Carlton Samuels Jan. 23, 2014

Jan. 23, 2014

Again, I see and hear you. Can I make use of an acronym you used in another space, only this time with a different spin perhaps? RTMFM. -Carlton ============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 *Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround* ============================= On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 11:03 AM, Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch < apisan(a)unam.mx> wrote: > Carlton, > > I object the ad-hominem, chest-pounding, bullying and outright distortions > and lies in your posting. Let it rest for the record since even you have > somewhat bowed to the more rational approach which Evan picked up, and > since you appear to have backtracked from or clarified what seemed a > serious accusation against an absent third party. > > Alejandro Pisanty > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > Dr. Alejandro Pisanty > Facultad de Química UNAM > Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico > > > > +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD > > +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475 > Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com > LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty > Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, > http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 > Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty > ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > ________________________________________ > Desde: at-large-bounces(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org [ > at-large-bounces(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org] en nombre de Carlton Samuels [ > carlton.samuels(a)gmail.com] > Enviado el: jueves, 23 de enero de 2014 08:31 > Hasta: At-Large Worldwide > CC: At-Large Worldwide > Asunto: Re: [At-Large] [ALAC] Reference: ICC Ruling on Objections filed by > the ALAC > > Alejandro: > Here we go again. You do find it easy to judge....and disapprove. > > Again, you hopelessly misread, probably because you came in late to an > ongoing conversation. Or maybe the nuances of meaning offered by my native > English Language is a challenge. [Talking of 'metaphorical flourish', its > like me and Spanish. I know two words in a flurry of ten and think I > understand it.] Yes, the tone I used was intentional; mocking. I cannot > and will not bear your burdens. > > NO my friend. You libel Sala. An explanation by Sala of the meaning of a > term I used cannot be a basis for your wily accusation of her. Sala is > absolved. > > The problems I saw of the objection framework were both STRUCTURAL and > PHILOSOPHICAL. And since they were obvious from the beginning, I am of the > mind they were left in place for cause. > > I feel vindicated because the evaluator laid them bare. > > Pfftt. When I use a word it means what is intended. First of all, plainly, > I APPROVE of the evaluator's judgement. If only because it coincides with > my initial one! The use of the descriptive 'cogent' was for the ordinary > meaning and not cynical. > > I quoted his writings extensively because my own reading and interpretation > of the AGB and after extensive conversations and debates with Committee > chair Dev Anand Teelucksingh - who, other than Alan Greenberg is possibly > the most thoughtful and best researcher I know in At-Large - I was > convinced that: > > 1. There were serious disconnects in the objection framework offered in the > AGB > 2. The barrier to entry in the process in form of a fee was intended as a > 'chilling effect'; plainly, they were unwanted > 3. I doubted the cover of the ALAC as sponsored community objector gave > equal protection > 4. The process instituted to determine 'community standing' was not fit and > MAY NOT be. > 4. The PICs were an afterthought, a Wile E. Coyote scheme and in context of > an entity who disavows a regulatory function, hardly enforceable on an > business > > I hold those views. Those who have been paying attention know they are > mine and honestly developed. Sorry if you disapprove. > > Bless your heart. > -Carlton > > > > > ============================== > Carlton A Samuels > Mobile: 876-818-1799 > *Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround* > ============================= > > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 12:17 AM, Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch < > apisan(a)unam.mx> wrote: > > > Sala, Carlton, > > > > so, you are accusing the reviewer of cheating? That's pretty strong. > > > > Re actions, I have a different one: "live and learn." Or to move away > from > > the metaphorical flourish, analyze and extract lessons learned. > > > > First, find out in depth what went wrong with this objection and whether > > ALAC can do better. Spread the learning to the RALOs. > > > > Second, if a pattern emerges that shows deeper problems with the > objection > > process and with the gTLD program, put it in writing and work to modify > > either or both. > > > > And, let's try to show the cultural sensitivity we all demand by limiting > > the references to specific bodies of religious text. > > > > Yours, > > > > Alejandro Pisanty > > > > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > Dr. Alejandro Pisanty > > Facultad de Química UNAM > > Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico > > > > > > > > +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD > > > > +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475 > > Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com > > LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty > > Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, > > http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 > > Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty > > ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org > > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > > > ________________________________________ > > Desde: at-large-bounces(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org [ > > at-large-bounces(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org] en nombre de Carlton Samuels [ > > carlton.samuels(a)gmail.com] > > Enviado el: miércoles, 22 de enero de 2014 22:50 > > Hasta: Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro > > CC: At-Large Worldwide; At-Large Worldwide > > Asunto: Re: [At-Large] [ALAC] Reference: ICC Ruling on Objections filed > by > > the ALAC > > > > Thank you, dear Sala. Muah. > > > > To Alejandro's first question, answer is be quiet and slink away. Paras > 30 > > & 31 here should inform that action: > > > > > > > http://newgtlds.icann.org/sites/default/files/drsp/17jan14/determination-1-… > > > > ...and the meaning of the reference so ably revealed by Sala. > > > > Period the end. > > -Carlton > > > > > > ============================== > > Carlton A Samuels > > Mobile: 876-818-1799 > > *Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround* > > ============================= > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 11:35 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < > > salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > I will let Carlton explain the first question that Alejandro wrote. > > > > > > With respect to the use of Jacob and Esau, it is an expression used > when > > > describing deception. The story goes that Jacob and Esau were brothers > > and > > > sons of Isaac. In ancient times and in that particular culture, before > a > > > father would die he would bestow his blessings to the firstborn as that > > was > > > his birthright. Whilst Jacob and Esau were twins, Esau was the older of > > the > > > two and so it was his birthright to succeed, However as Isaac reached > old > > > age, his sight failed him so he could not see properly. In a successful > > > attempt by Jacob to get the blessings of the firstborn after striking a > > > deal with his brother over a bowl of soup, Jacob killed an animal and > put > > > the skin around his hands so that he could appear hairy as his brother > > Esau > > > was hairy and in so doing deceived his father into blessing him. So the > > > expression to hear the voice of Jacob but it is the hand of Esau he > feels > > > is used to refer to the use of "deception". > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch < > > > apisan(a)unam.mx> wrote: > > > > > > > Carlton, > > > > > > > > what is the action that you conclude should follow? > > > > > > > > Can you explain the Jacob/Esau reference please? > > > > > > > > Yours, > > > > > > > > Alejandro Pisanty > > > > > > > > > > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > > > Dr. Alejandro Pisanty > > > > Facultad de Química UNAM > > > > Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD > > > > > > > > +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475 > > > > Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com > > > > LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty > > > > Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, > > > > http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 > > > > Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty > > > > ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org > > > > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > > > > > > > ________________________________________ > > > > Desde: at-large-bounces(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org [ > > > > at-large-bounces(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org] en nombre de Carlton > > Samuels [ > > > > carlton.samuels(a)gmail.com] > > > > Enviado el: miércoles, 22 de enero de 2014 21:04 > > > > Hasta: At-Large Worldwide; At-Large Worldwide > > > > Asunto: [At-Large] Reference: ICC Ruling on Objections filed by the > > ALAC > > > > > > > > Colleagues may recall that this writer was part of the original > > At-Large > > > > panel constituted to evaluate and determine whether the ALAC would > > > exercise > > > > standing and file community objections to a gTLD application. > > > > > > > > You will also recall that after some time engaging and several > > > evaluations, > > > > I withdrew from the process, principally because I was challenged to > > > > reconcile my disquiet regarding the bases used to identify the > offended > > > > community in context and the expandable and sometimes indeterminate > > > > attributes available for defining a community with standing to raise > an > > > > objection. > > > > > > > > So now, the evaluator hired by the ICC to evaluate the objections > filed > > > has > > > > issued his ruling. See it here: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://newgtlds.icann.org/sites/default/files/drsp/17jan14/determination-1-… > > > > . > > > > Here's the key understanding, as he sees it, of what obtains.. > > > > > > > > "*The formal objection process was created to allow a f**ull and fair > > > > consideration of objections based on certain l**imited grounds > outside > > > > ICANN’s evaluation of applications on t**heir merits*" - Para 54, > Page > > > 29 > > > > > > > > He, too, has his troubles settling on a meaning of the term > 'community' > > > in > > > > context. His take... > > > > > > > > "*......**The word “community” refers not to a place, but to an > > > > abstraction: the convergence of a sense of involvement with common > > > > interests....Communities of persons united by their interests in how > > they > > > > earn their living may be especially strong, whether they form > permanent > > > > organisations (like professional associations) or not (like the > entire > > > > **population > > > > segment of retirees).*" Para 49, Page 27 inter alia > > > > > > > > He continues, bemoaning his inability to cleanly define a community > > with > > > > standing.....and in the process, pimp slaps the prevailing or > > predominant > > > > At-Large tenet of community.... > > > > > > > > "*.....Communities do not necessarily create institutions. They do > not > > > > necessarily function as a polity, in the sense of identifying > officials > > > > formally authorized to act in **their name, represent their > interests, > > or > > > > formulate their policies. They may exist without structures of > > > > self-governance, such as membership committees which admit **or > exclude > > > > individuals by reference to more or less well-articulated standards > > > > of qualification or conduct**........It follows that communities may > > > > include individuals who are more or less **concerned with the welfare > > of > > > > the group as a whole; it may contain cynics as well as * > > > > *idealists, speculators as well as altruists. Naturally it may > include > > > > subgroups or even **individuals whose opinions and preferences are > > > sharply > > > > at odds with those of the **majority of the community. Unless the > > > community > > > > has in some constitutional sense **defined itself as excluding > > > undesirable > > > > individuals, or at least limited their capacity to **make claims to > > speak > > > > as members of the group, someone looking at a community **from the > > > outside, > > > > and armed only with this broad understanding of what a **“community” > > may > > > > be, has no rules-based criteria for evaluating who does or does not > > > > **belong > > > > to the community. *" Paras 50 & 51, Page 26-27, inter alia > > > > > > > > Here's where he ends up.... > > > > > > > > "*....The determination I am now charged with effecting deals.... – > > with > > > > “global Internet communities”. That expression has not, however, been > > > given > > > > further specific definition. One must therefore proceed on the basis > of > > > (i) > > > > discerning what the relevant rules do not say about “communities” and > > > (ii) > > > > being attentive to implied constraints derived from principles > > developed > > > by > > > > ICANN.*" Para 52, Page 28, inter alia > > > > > > > > He elides a lot of stuff from the foregoing to the six (6) principles > > > upon > > > > which the new GTLD program is predicated in Para 55 then delivered > this > > > > [considered] opinion.... > > > > > > > > "*To the extent that abstract or aspirational principles are defined, > > > they > > > > are those of a free market (“competition”, “consumer choice”, > > > > “differentiation” and “diversity”) and freedom of expression, rather > > than > > > > regulatory constraints arising from a protective (or authoritarian) > > > desire > > > > to filter “wrong” or “unsound” views, or otherwise restrict access > s**o > > > as > > > > to reserve it to those who are vetted by some type of official > > bodies...I > > > > see no reflection here of* *ALAC’s undisguised bias **against > > “commercial > > > > applicants” who “cannot be trusted to self-police the .health domain > > > space > > > > and are “more than likely” to place “commercial interests before > > > > public **welfare > > > > interests”*.......*The Objector’s animadversions against the > Applicant > > > miss > > > > the target;* *profit-seekers **may apply; the public interest is > > > evidently > > > > intended to be protected by protocols imposed by ICANN in a manner > akin > > > to > > > > that of regulators whose supervision constrains the conduct of > > for-profit > > > > providers of public services generally...*" Paras 56 & 57, Page 31 > > inter > > > > alia > > > > > > > > Reasonable men and women may well agree to disagree, agreeably or > not. > > I > > > > willingly acknowledge the arguments posited by this evaluator are > > indeed > > > > cogent. All in all, this was a bravura performance, worthy of > > > > acknowledgement. For in one fell swoop, this gentleman tells the ALAC > > to > > > > piss off - politely, in an 'Englishy' kind of way -, gives a > > left-handed > > > > thumbs up to the regulatory role of ICANN, fingers the PICs as I have > > > > always intimated they were .......and comes up roses. > > > > > > > > He hears the voice of Jacob. But smart fella knows it is the hand of > > Esau > > > > he feels. > > > > > > > > -Carlton > > > > > > > > > > > > ============================== > > > > Carlton A Samuels > > > > Mobile: 876-818-1799 > > > > *Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround* > > > > ============================= > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > At-Large mailing list > > > > At-Large(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > > > > https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large > > > > > > > > At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > At-Large mailing list > > > > At-Large(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > > > > https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large > > > > > > > > At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > ALAC mailing list > > > ALAC(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > > > https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac > > > > > > At-Large Online: http://www.atlarge.icann.org > > > ALAC Working Wiki: > > > > > > https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/At-Large+Advisory+Committee+(AL… > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > At-Large mailing list > > At-Large(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > > https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large > > > > At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org > > _______________________________________________ > > At-Large mailing list > > At-Large(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > > https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large > > > > At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org > > > _______________________________________________ > At-Large mailing list > At-Large(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large > > At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org > _______________________________________________ > At-Large mailing list > At-Large(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large > > At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org >

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Re: [ALAC] [At-Large] Reference: ICC Ruling on Objections filed by the ALAC
by Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond Jan. 23, 2014

Jan. 23, 2014

On 23/01/2014 18:33, Christopher Wilkinson wrote: > However, it is becoming increasingly clear that unless ICANN recognises At Large (and other Civil Society participants) on a par with the Registry/Registrar interest, then decisions will probably not be in the 'public interest'. > The more we see such unbalanced decisions, the greater will be the push-back from the GAC, who will argue that the governments are evidently, even regrettably, the only custodians of the public interest. Which is only a step away from governmental control of the MS process. Bingo. But just remember who pays the bills. Kind regards, Olivier (speaking for myself only)

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Re: [ALAC] [At-Large] Reference: ICC Ruling on Objections filed by the ALAC
by Carlton Samuels Jan. 23, 2014

Jan. 23, 2014

Alejandro: Here we go again. You do find it easy to judge....and disapprove. Again, you hopelessly misread, probably because you came in late to an ongoing conversation. Or maybe the nuances of meaning offered by my native English Language is a challenge. [Talking of 'metaphorical flourish', its like me and Spanish. I know two words in a flurry of ten and think I understand it.] Yes, the tone I used was intentional; mocking. I cannot and will not bear your burdens. NO my friend. You libel Sala. An explanation by Sala of the meaning of a term I used cannot be a basis for your wily accusation of her. Sala is absolved. The problems I saw of the objection framework were both STRUCTURAL and PHILOSOPHICAL. And since they were obvious from the beginning, I am of the mind they were left in place for cause. I feel vindicated because the evaluator laid them bare. Pfftt. When I use a word it means what is intended. First of all, plainly, I APPROVE of the evaluator's judgement. If only because it coincides with my initial one! The use of the descriptive 'cogent' was for the ordinary meaning and not cynical. I quoted his writings extensively because my own reading and interpretation of the AGB and after extensive conversations and debates with Committee chair Dev Anand Teelucksingh - who, other than Alan Greenberg is possibly the most thoughtful and best researcher I know in At-Large - I was convinced that: 1. There were serious disconnects in the objection framework offered in the AGB 2. The barrier to entry in the process in form of a fee was intended as a 'chilling effect'; plainly, they were unwanted 3. I doubted the cover of the ALAC as sponsored community objector gave equal protection 4. The process instituted to determine 'community standing' was not fit and MAY NOT be. 4. The PICs were an afterthought, a Wile E. Coyote scheme and in context of an entity who disavows a regulatory function, hardly enforceable on an business I hold those views. Those who have been paying attention know they are mine and honestly developed. Sorry if you disapprove. Bless your heart. -Carlton ============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 *Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround* ============================= On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 12:17 AM, Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch < apisan(a)unam.mx> wrote: > Sala, Carlton, > > so, you are accusing the reviewer of cheating? That's pretty strong. > > Re actions, I have a different one: "live and learn." Or to move away from > the metaphorical flourish, analyze and extract lessons learned. > > First, find out in depth what went wrong with this objection and whether > ALAC can do better. Spread the learning to the RALOs. > > Second, if a pattern emerges that shows deeper problems with the objection > process and with the gTLD program, put it in writing and work to modify > either or both. > > And, let's try to show the cultural sensitivity we all demand by limiting > the references to specific bodies of religious text. > > Yours, > > Alejandro Pisanty > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > Dr. Alejandro Pisanty > Facultad de Química UNAM > Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico > > > > +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD > > +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475 > Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com > LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty > Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, > http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 > Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty > ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > ________________________________________ > Desde: at-large-bounces(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org [ > at-large-bounces(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org] en nombre de Carlton Samuels [ > carlton.samuels(a)gmail.com] > Enviado el: miércoles, 22 de enero de 2014 22:50 > Hasta: Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro > CC: At-Large Worldwide; At-Large Worldwide > Asunto: Re: [At-Large] [ALAC] Reference: ICC Ruling on Objections filed by > the ALAC > > Thank you, dear Sala. Muah. > > To Alejandro's first question, answer is be quiet and slink away. Paras 30 > & 31 here should inform that action: > > > http://newgtlds.icann.org/sites/default/files/drsp/17jan14/determination-1-… > > ...and the meaning of the reference so ably revealed by Sala. > > Period the end. > -Carlton > > > ============================== > Carlton A Samuels > Mobile: 876-818-1799 > *Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround* > ============================= > > > On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 11:35 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < > salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > I will let Carlton explain the first question that Alejandro wrote. > > > > With respect to the use of Jacob and Esau, it is an expression used when > > describing deception. The story goes that Jacob and Esau were brothers > and > > sons of Isaac. In ancient times and in that particular culture, before a > > father would die he would bestow his blessings to the firstborn as that > was > > his birthright. Whilst Jacob and Esau were twins, Esau was the older of > the > > two and so it was his birthright to succeed, However as Isaac reached old > > age, his sight failed him so he could not see properly. In a successful > > attempt by Jacob to get the blessings of the firstborn after striking a > > deal with his brother over a bowl of soup, Jacob killed an animal and put > > the skin around his hands so that he could appear hairy as his brother > Esau > > was hairy and in so doing deceived his father into blessing him. So the > > expression to hear the voice of Jacob but it is the hand of Esau he feels > > is used to refer to the use of "deception". > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch < > > apisan(a)unam.mx> wrote: > > > > > Carlton, > > > > > > what is the action that you conclude should follow? > > > > > > Can you explain the Jacob/Esau reference please? > > > > > > Yours, > > > > > > Alejandro Pisanty > > > > > > > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > > Dr. Alejandro Pisanty > > > Facultad de Química UNAM > > > Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico > > > > > > > > > > > > +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD > > > > > > +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475 > > > Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com > > > LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty > > > Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, > > > http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 > > > Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty > > > ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org > > > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > > > > > ________________________________________ > > > Desde: at-large-bounces(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org [ > > > at-large-bounces(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org] en nombre de Carlton > Samuels [ > > > carlton.samuels(a)gmail.com] > > > Enviado el: miércoles, 22 de enero de 2014 21:04 > > > Hasta: At-Large Worldwide; At-Large Worldwide > > > Asunto: [At-Large] Reference: ICC Ruling on Objections filed by the > ALAC > > > > > > Colleagues may recall that this writer was part of the original > At-Large > > > panel constituted to evaluate and determine whether the ALAC would > > exercise > > > standing and file community objections to a gTLD application. > > > > > > You will also recall that after some time engaging and several > > evaluations, > > > I withdrew from the process, principally because I was challenged to > > > reconcile my disquiet regarding the bases used to identify the offended > > > community in context and the expandable and sometimes indeterminate > > > attributes available for defining a community with standing to raise an > > > objection. > > > > > > So now, the evaluator hired by the ICC to evaluate the objections filed > > has > > > issued his ruling. See it here: > > > > > > > > > http://newgtlds.icann.org/sites/default/files/drsp/17jan14/determination-1-… > > > . > > > Here's the key understanding, as he sees it, of what obtains.. > > > > > > "*The formal objection process was created to allow a f**ull and fair > > > consideration of objections based on certain l**imited grounds outside > > > ICANN’s evaluation of applications on t**heir merits*" - Para 54, Page > > 29 > > > > > > He, too, has his troubles settling on a meaning of the term 'community' > > in > > > context. His take... > > > > > > "*......**The word “community” refers not to a place, but to an > > > abstraction: the convergence of a sense of involvement with common > > > interests....Communities of persons united by their interests in how > they > > > earn their living may be especially strong, whether they form permanent > > > organisations (like professional associations) or not (like the entire > > > **population > > > segment of retirees).*" Para 49, Page 27 inter alia > > > > > > He continues, bemoaning his inability to cleanly define a community > with > > > standing.....and in the process, pimp slaps the prevailing or > predominant > > > At-Large tenet of community.... > > > > > > "*.....Communities do not necessarily create institutions. They do not > > > necessarily function as a polity, in the sense of identifying officials > > > formally authorized to act in **their name, represent their interests, > or > > > formulate their policies. They may exist without structures of > > > self-governance, such as membership committees which admit **or exclude > > > individuals by reference to more or less well-articulated standards > > > of qualification or conduct**........It follows that communities may > > > include individuals who are more or less **concerned with the welfare > of > > > the group as a whole; it may contain cynics as well as * > > > *idealists, speculators as well as altruists. Naturally it may include > > > subgroups or even **individuals whose opinions and preferences are > > sharply > > > at odds with those of the **majority of the community. Unless the > > community > > > has in some constitutional sense **defined itself as excluding > > undesirable > > > individuals, or at least limited their capacity to **make claims to > speak > > > as members of the group, someone looking at a community **from the > > outside, > > > and armed only with this broad understanding of what a **“community” > may > > > be, has no rules-based criteria for evaluating who does or does not > > > **belong > > > to the community. *" Paras 50 & 51, Page 26-27, inter alia > > > > > > Here's where he ends up.... > > > > > > "*....The determination I am now charged with effecting deals.... – > with > > > “global Internet communities”. That expression has not, however, been > > given > > > further specific definition. One must therefore proceed on the basis of > > (i) > > > discerning what the relevant rules do not say about “communities” and > > (ii) > > > being attentive to implied constraints derived from principles > developed > > by > > > ICANN.*" Para 52, Page 28, inter alia > > > > > > He elides a lot of stuff from the foregoing to the six (6) principles > > upon > > > which the new GTLD program is predicated in Para 55 then delivered this > > > [considered] opinion.... > > > > > > "*To the extent that abstract or aspirational principles are defined, > > they > > > are those of a free market (“competition”, “consumer choice”, > > > “differentiation” and “diversity”) and freedom of expression, rather > than > > > regulatory constraints arising from a protective (or authoritarian) > > desire > > > to filter “wrong” or “unsound” views, or otherwise restrict access s**o > > as > > > to reserve it to those who are vetted by some type of official > bodies...I > > > see no reflection here of* *ALAC’s undisguised bias **against > “commercial > > > applicants” who “cannot be trusted to self-police the .health domain > > space > > > and are “more than likely” to place “commercial interests before > > > public **welfare > > > interests”*.......*The Objector’s animadversions against the Applicant > > miss > > > the target;* *profit-seekers **may apply; the public interest is > > evidently > > > intended to be protected by protocols imposed by ICANN in a manner akin > > to > > > that of regulators whose supervision constrains the conduct of > for-profit > > > providers of public services generally...*" Paras 56 & 57, Page 31 > inter > > > alia > > > > > > Reasonable men and women may well agree to disagree, agreeably or not. > I > > > willingly acknowledge the arguments posited by this evaluator are > indeed > > > cogent. All in all, this was a bravura performance, worthy of > > > acknowledgement. For in one fell swoop, this gentleman tells the ALAC > to > > > piss off - politely, in an 'Englishy' kind of way -, gives a > left-handed > > > thumbs up to the regulatory role of ICANN, fingers the PICs as I have > > > always intimated they were .......and comes up roses. > > > > > > He hears the voice of Jacob. But smart fella knows it is the hand of > Esau > > > he feels. > > > > > > -Carlton > > > > > > > > > ============================== > > > Carlton A Samuels > > > Mobile: 876-818-1799 > > > *Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround* > > > ============================= > > > _______________________________________________ > > > At-Large mailing list > > > At-Large(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > > > https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large > > > > > > At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org > > > _______________________________________________ > > > At-Large mailing list > > > At-Large(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > > > https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large > > > > > > At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ALAC mailing list > > ALAC(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > > https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac > > > > At-Large Online: http://www.atlarge.icann.org > > ALAC Working Wiki: > > > https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/At-Large+Advisory+Committee+(AL… > > > _______________________________________________ > At-Large mailing list > At-Large(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large > > At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org > _______________________________________________ > At-Large mailing list > At-Large(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large > > At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org >

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Re: [ALAC] [At-Large] Reference: ICC Ruling on Objections filed by the ALAC
by Rinalia Abdul Rahim Jan. 23, 2014

Jan. 23, 2014

I generally agree with Alejandro (minus accusation of cheating), especially on the need for analysis and drawing of lessons learned to benefit follow up and future At-Large action. A review of the process would be useful. For example, recommendations could be made on whether the ICC panel should include more than 1 person and whether some kind of briefing on the context of ICANN, its ecosystem and processes should be incorporated as part of the panel preparation. The review ideally should include the sub groups that worked on the criteria for objections as well as the development of arguments/substantiation. Best regards, Rinalia

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Re: [ALAC] [At-Large] Reference: ICC Ruling on Objections filed by the ALAC
by Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro Jan. 23, 2014

Jan. 23, 2014

And, let's try to show the cultural sensitivity we all demand by limiting the references to specific bodies of religious text. [Sala: I would not call it religious text as it is historical :) Some historians say that it is the root of the current Palestinian -Israeli conflict. It is basic discourse in International Relations. The use of the expression can be likened to the use of expressions such as "chilling" to mean "relaxing". There is no such thing as plain English as it continues to evolve. However, when someone uses an expression that others may not be familiar with, we simply inquire. In fact when we live in a global diverse context, we are all the more richer when we learn about "others'" systems and cultures etc. ]

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Re: [ALAC] [At-Large] Reference: ICC Ruling on Objections filed by the ALAC
by Evan Leibovitch Jan. 23, 2014

Jan. 23, 2014

On 23 January 2014 02:51, Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch <apisan(a)unam.mx>wrote: > Evan, > > so let's itemize this: > > 1. if the ALAC is going to have the opinion that the panelist cheated > floating around it better prepare for a visit to the Ombudsman. > I'm still not understanding how you are caught up on this premise. So let me be extremely clear. I am not for a moment accusing any adjudicator of cheating. In fact, I'm myself quite certain that did not happen, and that the panelists were performing their instructions properly. There is an argument to be made that the *processes* in place "cheated" (I prefer the less-charged term "fooled") At-Large community members into spending effort on making objections that could be deemed irrelevant. If there was deception, we must accept some blame for believing that the objection process could do more than it was designed to do. There are perhaps more lessons learned by us than by ICANN from this experience. Especially since, as I said, it has already happened to us before in the Applicant Support program. 2. if the conclusion about the PICs is that they are worthless and it is > now proved ex-post-facto, start drafting, and consulting the RALOs, for a > prompt and clear communication. If they can be fixed proposed a fix, if > they can't and we all agree, let's put it in writing again. All this should > help prepare better cases than the one lost by numerous avoidable reasons, > and a better environment for them. Let's serve the at-large users. > Uh.... you mean like this<https://community.icann.org/display/alacpolicydev/At-Large+Revised+Public+I…> ? The perception of PICs being completely useless is currently only a personal one, shared by by myself and Carlton and some others. I am unaware of how widely spread the view is held. I am happy to engage ALAC members, RALOs and individual members of the community on the issue. - Evan

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