October 2009 - At-Large - lists.icann.org

"placeholder" reps not placeholders?
by Beau Brendler Nov. 6, 2009

Nov. 6, 2009

By the way, is it true what I heard that the three newly appointed GNSO people have now been hard-wired in to two-year terms? I don't really see a constituency model working under those circumstances. Who's going to join a constituency if they have to wait two years to be able to directly elect a representative? No consumer group I am aware of is going to want to do that. -----Original Message----- >From: Andrés Piazza <investigaciones(a)densi.com.ar> >Sent: Oct 15, 2009 7:04 AM >To: James Seng <james(a)seng.sg>, alac-bounces(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org, William Drake <william.drake(a)graduateinstitute.ch> >Cc: ALAC Working List <alac(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org>, At-Large Worldwide <at-large(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org> >Subject: Re: [At-Large] [ALAC] ALAC-NCUC > > >If it's a dinner, drink or whatever I'll join.. > >Sent from BlackBerry® > >-----Original Message----- >From: James Seng <james(a)seng.sg> >Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 17:46:19 >To: William Drake<william.drake(a)graduateinstitute.ch> >Cc: ALAC Working List<alac(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org>; At-Large Worldwide<at-large(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org> >Subject: Re: [ALAC] ALAC-NCUC > >Milton spoke to me a while ago and mentioned there are some issues wrt >to NCUC lately. > >I do not know the exact details yet but I am all ears to learn more. > >So if we can arrange something on Monday night, I would definitely be joining. > >-James Seng > >On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 4:47 PM, William Drake ><william.drake(a)graduateinstitute.ch> wrote: >> Hi, >> >> No formal meeting between ALAC and NCUC has been set for Seoul, which to me >> is a pity but whatever. However, that doesn't mean that interested folks >> can't get together for more informal chatting about mutual concerns and >> such. At the moment NCUC has nothing programmed for Monday night, don't >> know about ALAC. Might anyone here be available for a drink at day's end, >> or even dinner? If so I'm sure we can rustle up a good NCUC contingent. >> >> Best, >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> *********************************************************** >> William J. Drake >> Senior Associate >> Centre for International Governance >> Graduate Institute of International and >> Development Studies >> Geneva, Switzerland >> william.drake(a)graduateinstitute.ch >> www.graduateinstitute.ch/cig/drake.html >> *********************************************************** >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ALAC mailing list >> ALAC(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >> http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org >> >> At-Large Online: http://www.atlarge.icann.org >> ALAC Working Wiki: http://st.icann.org/alac >> > >_______________________________________________ >ALAC mailing list >ALAC(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org > >At-Large Online: http://www.atlarge.icann.org >ALAC Working Wiki: http://st.icann.org/alac >_______________________________________________ >At-Large mailing list >At-Large(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large_atlarge-lists.ican… > >At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org

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Fw: [Name-Issues] URGENT: At Large Consultation
by Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond Nov. 3, 2009

Nov. 3, 2009

Folks: apologies for cross-posting, but I don't know if enough people are subscribed to the other list, so I'l like to obtain as much feedback as possible. Over on the names-issues At Large list, we are having a consultation re: the Trademark Clearinghouse and the "Uniform Rapid Suspension System" (URS). Yesterday, the GNSO formally created a GNSO Review Team to draft a reply to the Board's letter enquiring about solutions/suggestions for the "Trademark Clearinghouse" and "URS" parts of the IRT recommendations regarding Trademark rights for new gTLDs.The deadline for At Large filing a draft reply is 4 November 2009. That gives us about 5 days to respond. With many people currently travelling, this is a very short deadline, but it is required for GNSO procedural matters to reply to the Board's letter in time. A copy of the brainstorming sheet drafted during the meeting yesterday is downloadable from the Web page of our working group: https://st.icann.org/working-groups/index.cgi?at_large_naming_issues_taskfo… and has a link to the brainstorming sheet in question named: STI Brainstorming Notes.doc Please be so kind to download it and email replies to me, or to the name-issues(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org list (registration might be required) Kind regards, Olivier

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Report to the Seoul Meeting and presentation power point
by Cheryl Langdon-Orr Oct. 31, 2009

Oct. 31, 2009

For your information ... Please also note that all presentations are also being uploaded to the online repositories Seoul Meeting and At-Large shortly. -- Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO)

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Weekly posting summary for alac@atlarge-lists.icann.org
by Thomas Narten Oct. 30, 2009

Oct. 30, 2009

Total of 13 messages in the last 7 days. script run at: Fri Oct 30 00:53:02 EDT 2009 Messages | Bytes | Who --------+------+--------+----------+------------------------ 15.38% | 2 | 79.65% | 1433700 | langdonorr at gmail.com 23.08% | 3 | 16.79% | 302308 | ajp at glocom.ac.jp 15.38% | 2 | 1.38% | 24849 | dannyyounger at yahoo.com 15.38% | 2 | 0.61% | 10986 | william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch 7.69% | 1 | 0.61% | 10921 | evan at telly.org 7.69% | 1 | 0.36% | 6410 | narten at us.ibm.com 7.69% | 1 | 0.32% | 5743 | andrespiazzagpj at hotmail.com 7.69% | 1 | 0.29% | 5181 | dominik.filipp at dsoft.sk --------+------+--------+----------+------------------------ 100.00% | 13 |100.00% | 1800098 | Total

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Re: [At-Large] [ALAC] ALAC-NCUC
by William Drake Oct. 26, 2009

Oct. 26, 2009

Good morning, On Oct 26, 2009, at 8:15 AM, Wolf Ludwig wrote: > > As far as I can remember, we agreed on having a joint dinner-talk- > drink- > discuss meeting here in Seoul tonight. Are there any suggestions > already > regarding where to go and when to meet exactly? Otherwise, I'll try to > figure this out with Bill. I'd suggested meeting after the IDN reception at 20:00 in the lobby and then heading somewhere. Since I have no idea how many people will show up, and whether people will want to eat or just drink (perhaps depends on whether there's sufficient munchies at the reception), I have not asked the concierge to suggest a place or make a booking. So I guess we'll just deal with it on the spot. There are of course bars and restos ($$) in the hotel if inertia sets in, but personally I hope we'll manage to get out the door. I've not breathed fresh air since Friday and would rather be out in Seoul than stay in this sealed box. Best, Bill

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Fwd: [NCUC-DISCUSS] Slides for Today's meeting between NCUC and the Board
by Adam Peake Oct. 25, 2009

Oct. 25, 2009

For information, Meeting will be held today in about 30 minutes: Sunday 25 October 12:30 - 13:30 Athenee Room on Level 3 Adam ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Avri Doria <avri(a)ltu.se> Date: Sun, Oct 25, 2009 at 11:36 AM Subject: [NCUC-DISCUSS] Slides for Today's meeting between NCUC and the Board To: NCUC-DISCUSS(a)listserv.syr.edu Hi, Apologies for being so last minute about this, but attached are the slides that will be used in today's NCUC meting with the Board. I would note that I have been asked to present these slides. a.

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ALAC/At-Large Performance Management
by Alan Greenberg Oct. 24, 2009

Oct. 24, 2009

The ALAC has now adopted the Position Description (PD) for ALAC members and Liaisons (http://tinyurl.com/ALAC-PD) Despite satisfaction that it has been approved, I must admit some disappointment at the low voter turnout. I now submit the following discussion paper on how to ensure that the PD is effective. The document is based on the principles I presented in Sydney and modified based on the comments received prior to and at that meeting. It has also drawn very significantly from the policy proposed by Carlos Aguirre. This document will be presented and discussed on Tuesday in Seoul, with the intent of deciding on the principles and to be followed soon thereafter with a formal policy for discussion and approval. Any comments via e-mail or in person received sufficiently prior to the meeting will be incorporated in the presentation. A machine-translated version in French and Spanish will be sent soon. Alan

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Weekly posting summary for alac@atlarge-lists.icann.org
by Thomas Narten Oct. 23, 2009

Oct. 23, 2009

Total of 52 messages in the last 7 days. script run at: Fri Oct 23 00:53:03 EDT 2009 Messages | Bytes | Who --------+------+--------+----------+------------------------ 11.54% | 6 | 21.29% | 149119 | alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca 17.31% | 9 | 14.85% | 104003 | william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch 13.46% | 7 | 13.46% | 94313 | dominik.filipp at dsoft.sk 5.77% | 3 | 18.99% | 133040 | nick.ashton-hart at icann.org 7.69% | 4 | 7.40% | 51844 | beaubrendler at earthlink.net 5.77% | 3 | 5.14% | 36007 | roberto at icann.org 5.77% | 3 | 2.67% | 18702 | ajp at glocom.ac.jp 5.77% | 3 | 2.57% | 17987 | evan at telly.org 3.85% | 2 | 2.14% | 15006 | carlosaguirre62 at hotmail.com 3.85% | 2 | 2.07% | 14496 | dannyyounger at yahoo.com 3.85% | 2 | 1.70% | 11887 | baptista at publicroot.org 3.85% | 2 | 1.56% | 10941 | joly at punkcast.com 1.92% | 1 | 1.55% | 10869 | isolatedn at gmail.com 1.92% | 1 | 1.46% | 10230 | james at seng.sg 1.92% | 1 | 0.97% | 6808 | narten at us.ibm.com 1.92% | 1 | 0.91% | 6375 | sebastien.bachollet at isoc.fr 1.92% | 1 | 0.66% | 4633 | michele at blacknight.ie 1.92% | 1 | 0.61% | 4291 | rudi.vansnick at isoc.be --------+------+--------+----------+------------------------ 100.00% | 52 |100.00% | 700551 | Total

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Re: [At-Large] "placeholder" reps not placeholders?
by Beau Brendler Oct. 23, 2009

Oct. 23, 2009

Bill, I'm surprised by this note. You wrote: >I exchanged a number of messages with Beau, Alan and the NCUC in March- >June trying to encourage cooperation on the registrants' rights >charter, and I wrote to you saying please get involved and help take a >lead if you have issues---no response. And after you flamed us for >voting in MC to allow the process to move forward and then other stuff >happened around the charter, it became hard to get anyone interested. >I don't know all the history, but apparently there are people who >would rather hari kari than try to work with you. I don't think >that's an indictment of NCUC. Fortunately or unfortunately, the RAA work seems to have come full circle, and I now find myself asked to co-chair another RAA working group, half of which is supposed to write up the registrants' rights charter, the other half, with Steve Metalitz chair, to talk content and amendments. When asked, I sort of scratched my head, as I thought that was all done and the NCUC/NCSG and its hundreds of international organizations representing la creme du societe civile had stepped up to do it, but apparently they have done absolutely rien de tout, or Jacques du Merde, since I dropped the ball in March -- as Milton, Robin, and, sigh, now you, repeatedly remind the public. If I am wrong about this, please point me to the definitive body of work the steadily swelling, enlightened ranks of Kansalaisjärjestöjen has left in its wake, so it may enlighten me as I go forward to carry the dropped torch. Danny is correct when he points out there is not a single representative of Shoqërisë Civile on either of the current groups, to my knowledge, though there are representatives from the contracted parties. Actually, on the registrants' rights document group there is not a single representative other than me. We are supposed to generate results 30 days after Seoul, so there's lots of work to do. Most of what I am using is based, by the way, on what ALAC did (with Danny's leading contribution) more than two years ago, along with what AUDA (an industry group) did five years ago (http://www.auda.org.au/policies/auda-2004-04/) Perhaps the PhD-exclusive GigaNet think tank (I caught your presentation at the OECD meeting in Seoul a year or so ago, where you and I first met) would like to dispatch a handful of PhDs to give us some recommendations on this important matter of Internet governance? Or the NCUC might be able to contribute one or two lawyers? I am neither. The Internet user community needs your help. You also wrote: >I don't know all the history, but apparently there are people who >would rather hari kari than try to work with you [Danny].< Danny has been bitingly critical of ALAC, and there have been many occasions when I have taken his comments personally and walked away from the keyboard in anger. However, in my three years' experience, he usually refrains from personal attacks, and usually strives to be factually accurate, at least in his ALAC criticisms. He's also a volunteer with a full-time job that's not paid through some sort of professional internet governance concern, which is to say, like most people who use the Internet. This part of your note is alarmingly personal, reminiscent of the tactics of NCUC leadership over the last six months, and I'm disappointed to see it. -----Original Message----- >From: William Drake >Sent: Oct 22, 2009 3:58 AM >To: At-Large Worldwide >Subject: Re: [At-Large] "placeholder" reps not placeholders? > > >On Oct 21, 2009, at 8:22 PM, Danny Younger wrote: > >> Hello Bill, > >Hi, thanks for your note. We've never met and or even directly >communicated for more than a sentence or two, so I welcome the >opportunity to respond to your concerns. >> >> Re: "We think hard wiring will result in fragmentation within self- >> regarding silos, with people treating the NCSG as a mere shell >> within which they can pursue their stand alone agendas rather than >> feeling an incentive to work with the broader civil society >> community." >> >> There are several of us that regard the NCUC as a stand-alone silo >> focused solely on the privacy/freedom-of-expression agenda to the >> exclusion of all other topics. > >Yes, I've learned that there are several folks who insist on holding >to this view. > >> We have pointed to the oft-repeated failure of the NCUC to stand up >> for the registrant interest -- the failure to offer any >> recommendations whatsoever regarding the RAA amendments, and the >> failure to even join the working groups convened to deal with the >> matter. > >I exchanged a number of messages with Beau, Alan and the NCUC in March- >June trying to encourage cooperation on the registrants' rights >charter, and I wrote to you saying please get involved and help take a >lead if you have issues---no response. And after you flamed us for >voting in MC to allow the process to move forward and then other stuff >happened around the charter, it became hard to get anyone interested. >I don't know all the history, but apparently there are people who >would rather hari kari than try to work with you. I don't think >that's an indictment of NCUC. > >> The NCUC clearly is not prepared to work with the broader civil >> society community on matters that concern the rest of us. > >NCUC is a broad CS community, and it works with other broad CS >communities, which is why the Internet Governance Caucus, the OECD >CSISAC and others have supported us on the charter etc. And I and >others in NCUC have made it clear we'd like to work with ALAC, which >is why I'm trying to arrange a meeting. So in a word, bullshit. >> >> I get the impression that you view the non-commercial world as some >> sort of homogeneous whole where people don't disagree on matters >> such as privacy -- on this point you are clearly mistaken. > >And I get the impression that you don't know the first thing about >what I think. I fully understand there are differences of view at >every level, including within NCUC. > >> Many of us view your approach to privacy as a tool that further >> enables cybercriminality. > >What do you know about my approach to privacy? And who are the many, >why aren't they shouting at me too? > >> While your group favors proxy registrations, some of us stand >> vehemently opposed to the concept... so why should our ability to >> secure our own representatives necessarily be tied into whether your >> contingent agrees with our views? > >Yes, I'm told NCUC has taken that stand in the past. That doesn't >prevent people with other views standing for council seats in a >democratic election and trying to persuade people who have different >views. And if even if such persuasion fails, that doesn't necessarily >mean they wouldn't get elected. People are normally able to agree on >some things and disagree on others, just as they do now not only in >NCUC, but within our council delegation. You seem to think that >NCUC's 80 organizational and 89 individual members all think exactly >the same on every point and take a Leninist view of all disagreement. >Talk about fantasies of homogeneity! >> >> The process that you have proposed is nothing short of a veiled >> attempt at capture. > >The process I propose is democratic elections. You've made it >abundantly clear that you don't want to subject yourself to the >indignity of having to run and persuade people to support you, and >that ICANN is therefore obliged to award you a birthright council seat >in perpetuity from which you don't have to cooperate or even speak >civilly to anyone else. Happily, the SIC appears to have come around >to recognizing that this may not be a good basis upon which to design >a structure everyone else has to live with. > >Nice to meet you, BTW. > >Bill > > > > >_______________________________________________ >At-Large mailing list >At-Large(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large_atlarge-lists.ican… > >At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org

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Seoul Regional Conference on Internet Governance
by William Drake Oct. 23, 2009

Oct. 23, 2009

Hi, Adam has pointed out to me that while the announcement below was sent to the NCUC and IGC (IGF) lists it wasn't here, sorry. So in case anyway is in Seoul on Friday, looking for something to do, and willing to listen to academic blowhards, GigaNet (the Global Internet Governance Academic Network---Milton's the chair and I'm the vice, talk about conspiracies;-) and the Graduate School of Public Administration at Seoul National University will be doing a Regional Conference on Internet Governance at SNU from 14:00-18:00 at SNU. Blowing hard will be folks some of you know---Wolfgang, Rebecca, YJ, MM, myself, and Jisuk Woo, our host and NCUCer---and some you may not. Anyway it's free and open to the public SNU is south of the river, best to take a taxi from downtown as the metro stop's a long walk from the conference site, cost like $10-15 from downtown, I forget. Bill Begin forwarded message: > From: "Jisuk Woo, Ph.D., J.D." <jisuk(a)SNU.AC.KR> > Date: October 21, 2009 2:32:53 PM GMT+09:00 > To: NCUC-DISCUSS(a)LISTSERV.SYR.EDU > Subject: Re: Seoul Regional Conference on Internet Governance (KJPS- > SNU & GigaNet) > Reply-To: "Jisuk Woo, Ph.D., J.D." <jisuk(a)snu.ac.kr> > > Sorry, I forgot to include Bill Drake as one of the participants! > If any of you are interested in joing the conference, please > r.s.v.p., so that we can make your name tag in advance. > > I am attaching a map to the conference site. Thanks! > > Best regards, > > Jisuk > --- Original Message --- > From : "Jisuk Woo, Ph.D., J.D."<jisuk(a)SNU.AC.KR> > To : NCUC-DISCUSS(a)LISTSERV.SYR.EDU > Date : 2009/10/21 수요일 오후 2:26:22 > Subject : [NCUC-DISCUSS] Seoul Regional Conference on Internet > Governance (KJPS-SNU & GigaNet) > > Dear everyone, > > You may probably know already, but I would like to remind you that > there will be a Conference on Internet Governance at Seoul National > University on Oct. 23rd in the afternoon. Any of you who will be in > Seoul at the time are more than welcome to join the conference. > > Participatns include Milton Mueller, Rebecca MacKinnon, YJ Park, > Wolfgang Kleinwachter, Peng Hwa Ang, and Eung Hwi Chun, whom you > must know very well. So I am sure that there will be very > interesting discussions. > > The detailed program is the following. I wish you make a safe trip > to Seoul and enjoy the beautiful autumn here. If any of you get lost > after you arrive or encounter something that is beyond your > expectation and do not know where to turn to, you may give me a call > at 010-3376-3255. > > Best regards, > > Jisuk Woo, Ph.D., J.D. > Associate Professor > Graduate School of Public Administration > Seoul National University > > > > > 우지숙 > 서울대학교 행정대학원 부교수 > Jisuk Woo, Ph.D., J.D. > Associate Professor > Graduate School of Public Administration > Seoul National University > tel: 02-880-5633 > fax: 02-6248-0951 > email: jisuk(a)snu.ac.kr *********************************************************** William J. Drake Senior Associate Centre for International Governance Graduate Institute of International and Development Studies Geneva, Switzerland william.drake(a)graduateinstitute.ch www.graduateinstitute.ch/cig/drake.html ***********************************************************

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