September 2008 - At-Large - lists.icann.org

"We can't be bothered to vote; so just send us the travel vouchers for Cairo"
by Danny Younger Nov. 4, 2008

Nov. 4, 2008

In another fine display of participant zeal, eight ALAC members decided to ignore yet another ALAC vote -- this time on the Overview Report on the ALAC Review. Those listed below (more than half of the ALAC) did not bother to vote: 1 Izumi Aizu 2 Annette Muehlberg 3 Carlos Aguirre 4 Jose Ovidio Salgueiro 5 Hawa Diakite 6 Thu Hue Nguyen 7 Vanda Scartezini 8 Fatimata Seye Sylla Kudos to the ALAC Chair for the great results obtained under the new "Remedial" participation policy. At this rate, the ALAC will be dead and buried soon.

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Re: [At-Large] the big mouth's genious
by Alan Greenberg Sept. 30, 2008

Sept. 30, 2008

Sometimes strategies such as those suggested will work, and sometimes they will not. But regardless, micro-managing at this level is not particularly productive. I think that two things are relatively clear: 1. ALAC has a problem with the lack of regular and significant contribution of too many of its members; 2. Despite the best of intentions and plans, real life will ALWAYS occasionally get in the way of ALAC duties (and this would be true even if ALAC membership were a paid job). Our challenge is to keep #2 to a minimum. And to maximize real contributions such that the occasional lapses are not a major and ongoing issue. Alan At 30/09/2008 08:56 AM, Thompson, Darlene wrote: >Or, if a person is on vacation, couldn't they >e-mail in their vote at an earlier time or some such? > >Darlene A. Thompson >Community Access Program Administrator >Nunavut Dept. of Education / N-CAP >P.O. Box 1000, Station 910 >Iqaluit, NU X0A 0H0 >Phone: (867) 975-5631 >Fax: (867) 975-5610 >E-mail: dthompson(a)gov.nu.ca > >-----Original Message----- >From: at-large-bounces(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >[mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of JFC Morfin >Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 5:00 PM >To: At-Large Worldwide; 'At-Large Worldwide' >Subject: Re: [At-Large] the big mouth's genious > >At 20:14 27/09/2008, Josè Ovidio Salgueiro A. wrote: > >I was on vacation until yesterday, and that was duly notified to Nick son I > >couldn't vote, which I always do. > >Could the voting date be orgnanised so everyone could vote ? > > > >_______________________________________________ >At-Large mailing list >At-Large(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large_atlarge-lists.ican… > >At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org > >_______________________________________________ >At-Large mailing list >At-Large(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large_atlarge-lists.ican… > >At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org

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Re: [At-Large] the big mouth's genious
by Thompson, Darlene Sept. 30, 2008

Sept. 30, 2008

Or, if a person is on vacation, couldn't they e-mail in their vote at an earlier time or some such? Darlene A. Thompson Community Access Program Administrator Nunavut Dept. of Education / N-CAP P.O. Box 1000, Station 910 Iqaluit, NU X0A 0H0 Phone: (867) 975-5631 Fax: (867) 975-5610 E-mail: dthompson(a)gov.nu.ca -----Original Message----- From: at-large-bounces(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of JFC Morfin Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 5:00 PM To: At-Large Worldwide; 'At-Large Worldwide' Subject: Re: [At-Large] the big mouth's genious At 20:14 27/09/2008, Josè Ovidio Salgueiro A. wrote: >I was on vacation until yesterday, and that was duly notified to Nick son I >couldn't vote, which I always do. Could the voting date be orgnanised so everyone could vote ? _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large_atlarge-lists.ican… At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org

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Closed Meetings
by Danny Younger Sept. 30, 2008

Sept. 30, 2008

Cheryl, In a note on the excom list today you wrote: "(of course ALL ALAC meetings are open unless there is an *extreme* reason for them not to be so)" Yet when I look at the posted ALAC Cairo schedule I see this: 03 November 2008 GNSO 0800 - 0900 Room Name ALAC ExCom/GNSO Council leaders (closed) 03 November 2008 ccNSO 1100 - 1200 Room Name ALAC ExCom/ccNSO Council leaders (closed) https://st.icann.org/alac/index.cgi?cairo_meeting Perhaps you could briefly touch upon the *extreme* reasons for closing these meetings... Thanks, Danny

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Re: [At-Large] Argument
by Evan Leibovitch Sept. 29, 2008

Sept. 29, 2008

José Ovidio Salgueiro A. wrote: > Do we have to have an argument for everything??? Even the part of Vietnam was hit by the typhoon??? > > Please, be coherent > In my opinion, appeals to coherency, logic, (or manageable CC lists) won't work. Apparently they have not worked for more than a decade: http://www.gtld-mou.org/gtld-discuss/mail-archive/08030.html http://web.archive.org/web/20000707224140/http://robin.fcn.net/mr99jeff.html Williams is near the start of a one-year suspension from the NARALO mailing list (his third suspension for inflammatory and/or off-topic posts). Personally-addressed mail from him -- an attempt to override the suspension by harvesting email addresses and sending to huge Cc lists -- goes into my /dev/null mailbox. If I was not chair of NARALO I would have already reported his mail and ISP to appropriate authorities as spam. I would not have even known about the typhoon "discussion" without reading your reply. Please consider just ignoring him. Freedom of speech does not require an obligation to listen. - Evan

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Argument
by José Ovidio Salgueiro A. Sept. 29, 2008

Sept. 29, 2008

Do we have to have an argument for everything??? Even the part of Vietnam that was hit by the typhoon??? Please, be coherent José Ovidio Salgueiro A. jsalgueiro(a)cantv.net -----Mensaje original----- De: Jeffrey A. Williams [mailto:jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com] Enviado el: domingo, 28 de septiembre de 2008 03:10 a.m. Para: Norbert Klein; GAC Rep; Vint Cerf; Peter Dengate Thrush; twomey(a)icann.org CC: At-Large Worldwide; Izumi AIZU; 2nd addr for Robert Guerra; Alan Greenberg; At-Large Staff; Avri Doria; Bill Silverstein; Brendler, Beau; Bret Fausett; Cheryl Langdon-Orr; Chuck Gomes; Danny Younger; Darlene Thompson,; Dessi Pefeva; Dharma Dailey; DOC/NTIA ICANN Rep; Dominik Filipp; Edwardo Diaz; Erick Iriarte Ahon; Evan Leibovitch; Frederic Teboul; Hovav Shacham; Jacqueline A. Morris; JFC Morfin; John L; José Ovidio Salgueiro A.; Kieren McCarthy; matthias.langenegger(a)icann.org; Michele Neylon; Nevett, Jonathon; Nguyen Thu Hue; Nick Ashton-Hart; Roberto Gaetano; Ross Rader 2; Sébastien Bachollet; Veni Markovski; Vittorio Bertola; Wendy Seltzer; Wim Vandevelde; WWWhatsup; YJ Park Asunto: Re: [At-Large] Res: "We can't be bothered to vote;so just send us the travel vouchers for Cairo" Norbert and all, Yes I am aware, however this storm was in the mostly northern areas of Vietnam. See: http://www.iht.com/articles/reuters/2008/09/28/asia/OUKWD-UK-VIETNAM-FLOODS. php And as I said, such typhoons are rare in that area. A terrible tragedy none the less. However it seems to me that your connected pretty well. So it is therefore still difficult to see how a vote could have been missed even in Vietnam. And BTW, years ago I voted in Vietnam during a serious fire fight without a problem in a ditch near a rice paddy, and it was raining very hard at the time. But I managed! Improvise, adapt, overcome! I know that the Vietnamese and all southeast asian peoples are VERY good at improvising, adapting, and overcoming! >:) I hope and am sure that China, Burnai, Iraq, Iran, and Saudi Arabia, Google, MS, ICANN, the souvern wealth funds, and the Gates foundation will be sending significant relief supplies and funds soon. As the US is broke, much from us will be unlikely and unwise at this time. Sorry. >:( Perhaps France@large will chip in some relief aid as well. JFC, Vint, Peter, Paul, can you manage? Norbert Klein wrote: > Jacqueline A. Morris wrote: > "Vietnam has been hit by a typhoon and is badly flooded" > > Jeffrey A. Williams wrote on 27 September 2008: > "But no such typhoon has done so recently" > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7640692.stm > Page last updated at 15:04 GMT, Sunday, 28 September 2008 16:04 UK > Vietnam storm death toll hits 32 > > Have a look at the BBC report read it and and see the pictures of the flooding > in Vietnam. > > Norbert Klein > Phnom Penh > Cambodia > > On Saturday, 27 September 2008 14:32:02 Jeffrey A. Williams wrote: > > Jacque and all, > > > > Certainly the very rare occurrence to which you refer would > > be a reasonable excuse. But no such typhoon has done so > > recently, so as for as this thread is concerned, such a rare > > example is less than logical in context. > > > > So what some more questionable excuses? I suppose > > a hang nail, broken purse strap, run in your stockings, > > boil on your backside, migraine headache, baby needs > > a new pair of shoes, keyboard malfunction, your marriage > > anniversary, hot date, ect., ect., ect., ad nausium? > > > > "Jacqueline A. Morris" wrote: > > > Hi Alan > > > I'm not sure if this is relevant, but Vietnam has been hit by a typhoon > > > and is badly flooded - that might be a reason for non-participation of > > > Hue in this vote? > > > Jacqueline > > -- > If you want to know what is going on in Cambodia, > please visit us regularly - you can find something new every day: > > http://cambodiamirror.wordpress.com (English) > http://kanhchoksangkum.wordpress.com (Khmer) Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1(a)ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827

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Re: [At-Large] the big mouth's genious
by Nick Ashton-Hart Sept. 28, 2008

Sept. 28, 2008

Providing that a Member is not absent when the questions to be put in a vote are announced, it is always possible for them to ask the Chair or the Staff to record their vote, or simply announce it to the ALAC in advance, if they are absent during the voting period. All votes by the ALAC excepting those for individuals are open. All votes last for seven days with few exceptions. Of course, if one is gone on holiday for more than a week and a vote is requested during one's absence it is entirely possible to miss a ballot. On 27/09/2008 22:59, "JFC Morfin" <jefsey(a)jefsey.com> wrote: At 20:14 27/09/2008, Josè Ovidio Salgueiro A. wrote: >I was on vacation until yesterday, and that was duly notified to Nick son I >couldn't vote, which I always do. Could the voting date be orgnanised so everyone could vote ? _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large_atlarge-lists.ican… At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org -- Regards, Nick Ashton-Hart Director for At-Large Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) Main Tel: +33 (450) 40 46 88 USA DD: +1 (310) 578-8637 Fax: +41 (22) 594-85-44 Mobile: +41 (79) 595 54-68 email: nick.ashton-hart(a)icann.org Win IM: ashtonhart(a)hotmail.com / AIM/iSight: nashtonhart(a)mac.com / Skype: nashtonhart Online Bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashtonhart

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Re: [At-Large] the big mouth's genious
by Izumi AIZU Sept. 28, 2008

Sept. 28, 2008

It might also be helpful to send a gentle reminder say 24 hours before the closure or so. To be honest, 5-day or 1-week voting timing is sometimes hard to meet. It may sound odd, but with all the workload, travel, many emails piled up, a "soft" approach may help collect more votes from all of us. izumi 2008/9/28 JFC Morfin <jefsey(a)jefsey.com>: > At 20:14 27/09/2008, Josè Ovidio Salgueiro A. wrote: >> >> I was on vacation until yesterday, and that was duly notified to Nick son >> I >> couldn't vote, which I always do. > > Could the voting date be orgnanised so everyone could vote ? > > > > _______________________________________________ > At-Large mailing list > At-Large(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large_atlarge-lists.ican… > > At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org > > -- >> Izumi Aizu << Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita, Japan * * * * * << Writing the Future of the History >> www.anr.org

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Re: [At-Large] Res: "We can't be bothered to vote; so just send us the travel vouchers for Cairo"
by Alan Greenberg Sept. 28, 2008

Sept. 28, 2008

At 27/09/2008 11:41 AM, Bill Silverstein wrote: > > Hi Bill > > I guess you don't live in the developing world. Our access isn't as > > guaranteed as in the North. But we are still Internet users and have a > > right to be able to participate as best we can until we get up to your > > levels of service. > > Jacqueline > >I can understand that. But, as part of the obligation that one takes on is >the obligation to perform those duties online. Of course, I had not used >the internet in the islands. I had used the internet in China at a >university back when the only connection for the school was dialup (for >the entire school) to the great firewall in China. I live in Canada and have a reasonably reliable 3 megabit ISDN connection. I also travel a lot, but in developed and developing countries. And I can be without e-mail for a day or three, can only download small e-mails for a week (due to speed and reliability), and have close to no web access for a week. If access is ALWAYS that bad, then the person probably cannot meet there ICANN obligations and needs to say so. If we want participation from people who suffer such conditions on a less regular basis, we need to make sure that we factor in such conditions when we design our work processes. Alan

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Language Issues
by Danny Younger Sept. 27, 2008

Sept. 27, 2008

I disagree. The ALAC is in a mess with quorums not being met and votes not being cast. At the regional level local ALSs are not aware of the degree of non-participation of the members that are standing for re-election. On one list a candidate's work was described as "inpeccable" even though that person attended only 2 monthly conference calls in the last six months, only voted once on ALS accreditations in the last six months, and only submitted one monthly liaison report in the last nine months. With no member performance records available for review on the regional lists during an election cycle, the ALAC is allowing elections to turn into nothing more than a popularity contest. This could have been avoided by the Chair communicating the nature of the participation problem to each given region so that they could decide whether certain members warranted their continued trust or not. You had a chance to enforce your own rules and to ask those that are clearly not participating sufficiently (by your own metrics) to resign. By choosing not to enforce the ALAC's own rules, the ALAC will assuredly reap the consequences of continued substandard performance.

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