April 2008 - At-Large - lists.icann.org

Comments on GNSO improvements
by Danny Younger April 9, 2008

April 9, 2008

Wendy, I agree with your assessment that this Statement completely lacks substance. It offers no specific counter-proposals to the BGC work-product. As a document, it is almost as useless as the ALAC itself. What value is there in declaring "we do believe that the Internet end-users voice must be included in the new GNSO" without formulating a means by which this may be accomplished? ... and then there are the comments that make one want to vomit, such as, "Since as mentioned the At-Large community has been actively engaged in developing and implementing new approaches to a working group modality for policy development, some of the experiences we have had in that process may prove salutary." The ALAC is absolutely clueless when it comes to running a working group, and their WGs have been abject failures -- asking the GNSO to consider ALAC achievements in this area is laughable and makes the ALAC look like fools and simpletons. I'm starting to think that whoever penned this Statement is living in some alternate universe where reality rarely intrudes. If you ever needed proof that ALAC serves "no continuing purpose in the ICANN structure", this Statement would go a long way toward making that case. The Board is looking for real solutions to deal with issues that have been plaguing the GNSO since the days of the DNSO. This Statement offers up no real solutions. The best thing that one can say about this Statement is that if it were printed on toilet paper it might ultimately serve some useful purpose. ____________________________________________________________________________________ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com

4 5

Network Solutions hijacking unassigned sub domains?
by Jacqueline A. Morris April 9, 2008

April 9, 2008

Hi Another allegation against NetSol... See below Network Solutions is hijacking unassigned sub domains and delivering link filled holding pages for hundreds of thousands of sites. Win Betteridge runs GotGame.com and contacted TechCrunch with the details.... Read rest at http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/04/08/network-solutions-hijacking-unassigned… <http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/04/08/network-solutions-hijacking-unassigned…> __._,_.___ __,_._,___

1 0

Grant Funding to Support ALS Activities
by Danny Younger April 9, 2008

April 9, 2008

Cheryl, The info below appeared on a slide entitled "Why Become an ALS?" presented by Bilal Beiram at the Dubai Regional session -- http://public.icann.org/files/Bilal_Dubai08_Presentation.pdf Representation in ICANN at the regional and international level, plus your group's members will be eligible to serve on important regional and international decision-making bodies in ICANN; A free web page and other Internet-based mechanisms to support your group's work; Opportunities for grant funding to support some of your group's activities (ALAC is applying for grant funding). Is the ALAC really trying to recruit ALSs by pitching the possibility of grant funding for ALS projects? This strikes me as a rather deceptive and unethical recruiting practice... To whom has the ALAC applied for grant monies? Has a grant application or disbursement policy been created? Is there something here that I'm misunderstanding? regards, Danny ____________________________________________________________________________________ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com

4 8

Welcome Frederic Teboul to the At-Large Staff
by Nick Ashton-Hart April 9, 2008

April 9, 2008

It is my pleasure to introduce you to Frederic Teboul, the new At-Large Regional Affairs Manager. Born in Marseille, France, he began his career in the French Foreign Service in Israel in 1997; he subsequently worked for several parts of the United Nations' system from 2000 to 2005 in the Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA), Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP), the United Nations Office for Project Services (UNOPS), and the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) in Geneva, Kosovo, New York and Athens. He comes to us most recently from the private sector, where he served as Business Development and Corporate Social Responsibility (CSR) Director for the third-largest Greek maritime operator. His experience in the public and private sectors in a wide variety of international decision-making environments, working with governments, civil society, and industry stakeholders from more than 200 different countries, makes him a valuable addition to the At-Large team in the Policy Unit. He will be responsible in particular for supporting the Regional At-Large Organisations (RALOs), facilitating their involvement in policy development and assisting them in their work representing the individual Internet user interest in ICANN. Frederic has a PhD in Social Science from IAE-University Paris 1 Pantheon-Sorbonne, an MA in Political Science and International Relations from the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, and an Executive MBA from the Athens University of Economics and Business. He is a native French speaker, and also has knowledge of Romanian and Hebrew - with a little Italian, Spanish, Arabic, and Greek thrown in for good measure. I hope you will join me in giving Frederic a warm welcome! He can be reached at frederic.teboul(a)icann.org, or of course staff(a)atlarge.icann.org -- Regards, Nick Ashton-Hart Director for At-Large Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) Main Tel: +33 (450) 40 46 88 USA Tel: +1 (202) 657-5460 Fax: +41 (22) 594-85-44 Mobile: +41 (79) 595 54-68 email: nick.ashton-hart(a)icann.org Win IM: ashtonhart(a)hotmail.com / AIM/iSight: nashtonhart(a)mac.com / Skype: nashtonhart Online Bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashtonhart

6 5

Nomination - VP
by Robert Guerra April 9, 2008

April 9, 2008

Dear colleagues: I'd like to nominate Fatimata for the open position of ALAC vice- chair. Should she have been nominated already, then please see this as my support for her nomination. regards, Robert ---

3 3

Finally, ICANN Moves Against GoDaddy Domain Lockdowns
by Jeffrey A. Williams April 9, 2008

April 9, 2008

All, Seems that finally ICANN has take at least some measure of action, although limited towards what has been a problem registrar for at least 2 years now. One wonders when ICANN will go after the bigger front runner, NSOL. I personally view this as positive movement, but not nearly enough... What's needed is for ICANN to apply the same of even stronger action towards any registrar or registry that is engaging in these sorts of restraint of trade practices. See: http://gnso.icann.org/mailing-lists/archives/registrars/msg05077.html http://forums.nodaddy.com/index.php?topic=215.msg979 http://www.ag-ip-news.com/GetArticle.asp?Art_ID=5679&lang=en http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080110-network-solutions-defends-fro… http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/25376 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/08/AR200803080… An anonymous reader writes "ICANN is finally taking action against Domain Registrar GoDaddy's controversial 'lockdowns'. GoDaddy has long had a policy of 'locking down' domain names for 60 days after a customer updated their contact details. This put customers in a Catch 22 position: ICANN requires customers keep their contact details up to date, or risk having the domain forfeited. Yet during the lockdown period the customer is prevented from transferring the domain from GoDaddy to another registrar. If the lockdown ran over the domain's expiry date, customers were forced to renew with GoDaddy or lose the domain. ICANN proposes to ban this practice. ICANN who is charged with overseeing the Internet has long been accused of giving domain registrars a free ride. But recently after ICANN failed to discipline Network Solutions over a front-running scam, they found themselves both on the wrong end of a lawsuit by lawyers Kabateck Brown Kellner. Is ICANN's action a signal of increased vigilance in policing registrars, or is it a PR move paving the way for a complete removal of US Government oversight?" Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1(a)ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827

1 0

Re: [At-Large] Nomination - VP
by Jeffrey A. Williams April 9, 2008

April 9, 2008

All, I would like to nominate Danny Younger and Wendy Seltzer. Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1(a)ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 -----Original Message----- >From: Robert Guerra <lists(a)privaterra.info> >Sent: Apr 8, 2008 4:53 PM >To: cheryl(a)hovtek.com.au >Cc: 'At-Large writ small' <alac(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org> >Subject: Re: [At-Large] Nomination - VP > >i stand correct then. thanks for letting me know. > >Sebastian - congratulations! > >regards > >Robert > > >On 8-Apr-08, at 7:29 PM, Cheryl Langdon-Orr wrote: > >> Robert, thank you for this and indeed to Annette who had in fact >> already out >> Fatimata's name up earlier in the day (8th April); as discussed last >> night >> (while you were in the SSAC meeting I'm afraid) the nomination >> period for >> this position well past and therefore Sebastien (as the only properly >> nominated supported and accepted candidate under the ROP's we use >> for these >> matters) was declared into this interim position until the next >> AGM... >> >> >> CLO >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: alac-bounces(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >> [mailto:alac-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Robert >> Guerra >> Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 12:23 AM >> To: ALAC Worldwide >> Subject: [At-Large] Nomination - VP >> >> Dear colleagues: >> >> I'd like to nominate Fatimata for the open position of ALAC vice- >> chair. Should she have been nominated already, then please see this as >> my support for her nomination. >> >> regards, >> >> Robert >> --- >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ALAC mailing list >> ALAC(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >> http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org >> >> At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >ALAC mailing list >ALAC(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org > >At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org

1 0

Re: [At-Large] Danny, please ... (was: Comments on GNSO improvements)
by Jeffrey A. Williams April 9, 2008

April 9, 2008

JFC and all, Pardon me, but JFC your remarks concerning Danny's are utter nonsense. Danny is not only right, but is widely recognized as being right. The ALAC's main problems are lack of competant leadership and an over interest in social engenerring issues as well as procedural manipulation. It's clear now, and has been sense the very conception of the ALS's that a wanton desire to restrict membership through inane membership rules and a desire to censor other voices that may not always agree with the ALAC leadership or their few supporters. That's decidedly not open and tranparent, and does demonstrate a definate lack of ethical leadership. -----Original Message----- >From: JFC Morfin <jefsey(a)jefsey.com> >Sent: Apr 8, 2008 5:22 PM >To: Danny Younger <dannyyounger(a)yahoo.com>, carlos aguirre <carlosaguirre62(a)hotmail.com>, wendy(a)seltzer.com >Cc: At-Large Worldwide <alac(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org> >Subject: [At-Large] Danny, please ... (was: Comments on GNSO improvements) > >Danny, >I know your rants on the matter for years. IMHO they only translate >your inability to propose something coherent to organise the ALAC for >it to serve the urgent needs that ICANN has of them, and it does not >properly (I agree with you) manage. The question is not to save one >million, but to use that small million for the multi-billion worth >advantage ICANN should get from ALAC to the benefit of the whole community. > >You do not realise it, but your competent comments on ICANN issues is >one of the most dramatic problem of ICANN, because it gives >credibility to such rants which in turn defeat the ICANN ALAC >oriented interests. ICANN is a trade organisation, managing >registrars and relating with ISPs. @large are lead customers. What >you harass ICANN about is to disregard them. In this capacity, IMHO >you harm ICANN through this list far more than ever Jeff did by at >least two degrees of magnitude: you hit the core, and you are intelligent. > >Please try for once to think the other way around. Document how you >would spend the ALAC million to the best advabntage of ICANN through >@larges. As you started doing at the WG-Review a long ago. >jfc > > >At 19:56 08/04/2008, Danny Younger wrote: > >>Hello Carlos, >> >>When I look at the ALAC I see a group of people that >>won't fight for at-large representation. I see a >>bunch of Working Groups wherein nothing gets done. I >>see a general discussion list where ALAC members from >>most of the regions usually have absolutely nothing to >>say on policy issues. I see a group yearly willing to >>waste a million dollars of registrant monies (and with >>their hand always out for even more funding). >> >>If you recall, ICANN shut down the Protocol Supporting >>Organization because it had no continuing purpose as >>an ICANN structure. I see no continuing purpose in >>the ALAC. >> >>The ALAC model is a failure that produces no >>substantive policy recommendations. In an >>evolutionary process, failures result in extinction. >>It's time for the ALAC to be replaced by a different >>model. >> >>You asked for my proposals... they have been public >>for some time now -- see my proposal to establish a >>Registrant Advisory Committee at >>http://gnso.icann.org/mailing-lists/archives/ga-200709/msg01080.html >> >>I have assembled a team of eighteen individuals that >>will be fleshing out this proposal. A domain name has >>been registered for the project -- >>registrantadvisorycommittee.info >> >>Hosting was purchased yesterday. The website will be >>up in a matter of days and consultations will then >>commence. >> >>In ICANN's history, representative bodies have been >>eliminated or replaced (one example is the DNSO >>General Assembly that disappeared as a representative >>unit in the wake of the 2002 Reform); I see no >>compelling reason to waste more money on a >>non-productive ALAC. >> >>Have a look at the SSAC -- at least they produce >>substantive documents with research, findings and >>recommendations. What does the ALAC produce other >>than brief Statements that are the product of only a >>few minutes worth of discussion? >> >>The ALAC doesn't serve the needs of the at-large >>community. It never has. It was built as a playpen >>to keep Civil Society occupied after At-Large >>representational rights were taken away. >> >>No amount of reform will change an institution in >>which elected representatives rarely choose to >>contribute in an online environment and almost never >>choose to engage in meaningful policy work. >> >>It is time for another model. >> >>best regards, >>Danny >> >> >> >>--- carlos aguirre <carlosaguirre62(a)hotmail.com> >>wrote: >> >> > >> > Danny: When I met you in LA, I thought that >> > you were the best. Now I can see my mistake. Your >> > comments are not constructive, I'm sure your >> > comments have been made with some intentionality. >> > I'm thinking that may be you are an element used by >> > others (I don't Know who) to disqualify the ALAC's >> > work, or.... you bought the ideas of who try to >> > delete ALAC of the map. I worry so much, the >> > possibility that one smart guy, only be a .......... >> > You can say this in a better way, making a >> > critic, and maybe in some points we can find >> > coincidences but..... It is not the first >> > time that you say how much useless is ALAC and their >> > members, but what are you proposals?. please tell >> > the people what are your true intentions and how you >> > can give solutions to this, could be clear, could be >> > honest. thank's and sorry for my bad english. >> > Me gustaria usted pudiera entender mi idioma, por >> > que de esta manera estariamos en igual posicion de >> > mantener esta discucion. Lamentablemente mi ingles >> > no es perfecto y por lo que se Ud. solo habla su >> > lengua, es una pena que Ud. solo piense y hable en >> > ingles estadounidense. Me gustaria verlo a Ud hacer >> > sus "aportes" en espanol o en otro idioma diferente >> > al ingles, are you able?. Carlos >> > Dionisio Aguirre >> > abogado - Sarmiento 71 - 4to. 18 Cordoba - Argentina >> > -*54-351-424-2123 / >> > 423-5423www.sitioderecho.com.arwww.densi.com.ar > >> > Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 04:24:32 -0700> From: >> > dannyyounger(a)yahoo.com> To: wendy(a)seltzer.com> CC: >> > alac(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: [At-Large] >> > Comments on GNSO improvements> > Wendy,> > I agree >> > with your assessment that this Statement> completely >> > lacks substance. It offers no specific> >> > counter-proposals to the BGC work-product. As a> >> > document, it is almost as useless as the ALAC >> > itself.> > What value is there in declaring "we do >> > believe that> the Internet end-user's voice must be >> > included in the> new GNSO" without formulating a >> > means by which this> may be accomplished?> > ... and >> > then there are the comments that make one want> to >> > vomit, such as, "Since as mentioned the At-Large> >> > community has been actively engaged in developing >> > and> implementing new approaches to a working group> >> > modality for policy development, some of the> >> > experiences we have had in that process may prove> >> > salutary."> > The ALAC is absolutely clueless when >> > it comes to> running a working group, and their WGs >> > have been> abject failures -- asking the GNSO to >> > consider ALAC> achievements in this area is >> > laughable and makes the> ALAC look like fools and >> > simpletons. I'm starting to> think that whoever >> > penned this Statement is living in> some alternate >> > universe where reality rarely intrudes.> > > If you >> > ever needed proof that ALAC serves "no> continuing >> > purpose in the ICANN structure", this> Statement >> > would go a long way toward making that case.> > The >> > Board is looking for real solutions to deal with> >> > issues that have been plaguing the GNSO since the >> > days> of the DNSO. This Statement offers up no real> >> > solutions. The best thing that one can say about >> > this> Statement is that if it were printed on toilet >> > paper > it might ultimately serve some useful >> > purpose.> > > > >> > >>____________________________________________________________________________________> >> > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one >> > month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. > >> > http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com> >> > > _______________________________________________> >> > ALAC mailing list> ALAC(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org> >> > >>http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org> >> > > At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org >> > >>_________________________________________________________________ >> > Ingresá ya a MSN Deportes y enterate de las últimas >> > novedades del mundo deportivo. >> > http://msn.foxsports.com/fslasc/ >> >> >> >> >>____________________________________________________________________________________ Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1(a)ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827

1 0

Re: [At-Large] Network Solutions Ceases Front-Running?
by Jeffrey A. Williams April 8, 2008

April 8, 2008

John, Wendy and all, I recently myself made the same observations John has. Indeed NSOL is still front running and yes, less agressively. I guess they hoped or didn't think it would be noticed as Wendy contends. As a long time supporter of NSOL, I for one and quite disappointed in NSOL continuing this errant practice, all be it less agressive in nature. Seems to me that NSOL feels by continuing this errant practice that they are free to do as they please, when they please, however they please, for as long as they please with relitive impunity. It also appears that the ICANN Bod and staff are willing to turn a blind eye to such as well... THAT is quite disturbing indeed! This sort of activity demonstrates clearly that there is a definate lack in responsible leadership within ICANN as well as NSOL. -----Original Message----- >From: Wendy Seltzer <wendy(a)seltzer.com> >Sent: Apr 8, 2008 9:04 AM >To: John Levine <johnl(a)iecc.com> >Cc: At-Large Worldwide <alac(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org> >Subject: Re: [At-Large] Network Solutions Ceases Front-Running? > >John Levine wrote: >>> It seems that NSI (NetworkSolutions) has temporarily >>> ceased its front running practice. >> >> They've just changed it a little. Do a search for some unlikely name, >> then on the next screen when they say it's available, hit your browser >> back button and see the message that pops up. They still do front >> running, just less aggressively. > >Thanks John. Since we know that users tend to click the "OK" button >without reading, even on security dialogues, this has similar effect to >the prior policy, with the fiction of user consent. (Interestingly, >they front-ran the .com but not the .net) > >--Wendy > >-- >Wendy Seltzer -- wendy(a)seltzer.org >Visiting Professor, Northeastern University School of Law >Fellow, Berkman Center for Internet & Society >http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/seltzer.html >http://www.chillingeffects.org/ >https://www.torproject.org/ > Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1(a)ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827

1 0

Re: [At-Large] Whois privacy
by Jeffrey A. Williams April 8, 2008

April 8, 2008

Bill and all, I corrected the spelling in the subject line of your post here from provacy to privacy. I am sure it was fat finger error on your part, I make those all the time. As to the substance of your remarks and statements below I can only say that your correct that there is not good reason for any business to Hide their indentity in Whois records, but there are a number of reasons that certain PII data/information should never appear in a Whois record for any specific Domain name, and those have already been articulated, so I shall not yet again repeat those very good reasons. I take and have taken the same precautions you have for domain names I have or have had by using an OPOC. -----Original Message----- >From: Bill Silverstein <icann-list(a)sorehands.com> >Sent: Apr 8, 2008 10:02 AM >To: alac(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >Subject: [At-Large] Whois provacy > >I would have responded to some of this sooner, but I have been busy with a >defendants' summary judgment motion, in part against Moniker for providing >privacy service to a spammer -- e360Insight. > >No LEGITIMATE business hides their identity. > >Domain privacy services do not only hide identity, but it can hide >quantity and relationships. Ie. A spammer uses 100 domain names to spam >with, how do you link them to the one spammer if they use a privacy >service? Or, a blogger has the domain name WidgetXpert.com and has a blog >that talks about widgets, but it turns out that that blogger is actually >the president of one of the companies that makes widgets? > > >A privacy service may offer privacy of the telephone number and street >address (but leave the State, or equivalent, and Country in place). This >prevents some of the abuse. There is also a service by the US Postal >service (and probably similar elsewhere) called a P.O. Box. which offers >this same type of privacy. I use my attorney's office as my address and >telephone number for my domain names. There are options here. > >I am not law enforcement, I do share my research with the people in the >FTC and the AG's office. > >As in regards to different privacy laws, I am not aware of any law that >prevents one from voluntarily releasing information to the public. > Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1(a)ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827

1 0