May 2008 - At-Large - lists.icann.org

ALAC Statement
by Danny Younger May 7, 2008

May 7, 2008

Cheryl, I have taken note of the ALAC submission entitled "At-Large Advisory Committee Statement. To the ICANN Board on the Board Governance Committees Recommendations for Improvements to the Generic Names Supporting Organisation" posted on Sunday 4 May 2008 at http://forum.icann.org/lists/gnso-improvements-report-2008/msg00031.html Would you be good enough to inform us when the ALAC formally convened and ratified this document through a voting process? Please let us know the voting tally and which committee members voted in favor and which were opposed. Thank you, Danny ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

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Re: [At-Large] [NA-Discuss] ALAC Statement
by Jeffrey A. Williams May 7, 2008

May 7, 2008

Danny and all, Thank you for making this request Danny. I also would like an answer. But I am not holding my breath in waiting to recieve one. I believe but do not know that the statement was arrived at on the "Internal list" which is of course restricted and no archives are avaliable that I am aware of. Of course if I am correct, than tranaparency and openess not to mention ligitimacy and accuracy as to determining a consensus on this statement is VERY questionable if not completely erronious. To my knowledge and from what I have been reading this Statement does not have consensus of the members, nor is it likely to gain same. -----Original Message----- >From: Danny Younger <dannyyounger(a)yahoo.com> >Sent: May 6, 2008 5:26 PM >To: Cheryl Langdon-Orr <cheryl(a)hovtek.com.au> >Cc: At-Large Worldwide <alac(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org>, na-discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >Subject: [NA-Discuss] ALAC Statement > >Cheryl, > >I have taken note of the ALAC submission entitled >"At-Large Advisory Committee Statement. To the ICANN >Board on the Board Governance Committees >Recommendations for Improvements to the Generic Names >Supporting Organisation" posted on Sunday 4 May 2008 >at >http://forum.icann.org/lists/gnso-improvements-report-2008/msg00031.html > >Would you be good enough to inform us when the ALAC >formally convened and ratified this document through a >voting process? Please let us know the voting tally >and which committee members voted in favor and which >were opposed. > >Thank you, >Danny > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ >Be a better friend, newshound, and >know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > >------ >NA-Discuss mailing list >NA-Discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss_atlarge-lists.ic… > >Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org >------ Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1(a)ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827

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Re: [At-Large] New CIRA Whois Policy - fear mongering?
by Jeffrey A. Williams May 6, 2008

May 6, 2008

Ross and all, I was wondering if you understood well there Ross. However it seems that perhaps some corporate entities are excluded or have "Special" privilages. For instance it doesn't seem that Google.ca or wikipedia.ca are required to comply. See: http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/dnsreport.ch?domain=google.ca&token=27105b513… http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/whois.ch?ip=wikipedia.ca&server=&email=on&tok… So again, any reasonable person has to wonder if CIRA's policy is serious or just another fraud hoist upon the Canadian and the rest of the worlds public just so that there is a "Warm and Fuzzy" policy statement, eh? So than, I can only suppose that LEA's are supposed to say to themselves "well it's CIRA's policy, so therfore it must be so, even if there are a few exceptions", right? I say BS! -----Original Message----- >From: Ross Rader <ross(a)tucows.com> >Sent: May 5, 2008 5:13 AM >To: Evan Leibovitch <evan(a)telly.org> >Cc: Bill Silverstein <icann-list(a)sorehands.com>, alac(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >Subject: Re: [At-Large] New CIRA Whois Policy - fear mongering? > >Ross Rader wrote: >> Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> >>> Just to be clear... are corporate registrants not able to opt out? >> >> No. > >Oops. I meant "Yes". Corporate registrants are not able to opt out. > >I missed the double negative :-) > >/ross > >_______________________________________________ >ALAC mailing list >ALAC(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org > >At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1(a)ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827

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Re: [At-Large] [NA-Discuss] GNSO Improvements Statement Edits
by Jeffrey A. Williams May 6, 2008

May 6, 2008

Louis and all, I also agree that the format was difficult to read in a side by side method. Better would be new over old. Evan, I have already sent in our members response to the GNSO improvements we believe are necessary, none of which by the way were listed in Nicks revision. -----Original Message----- >From: Louis Houle <louis.houle(a)oricom.ca> >Sent: May 5, 2008 1:43 PM >To: Evan Leibovitch <evan(a)telly.org> >Cc: Nick Ashton-Hart <Nick.Ashton-Hart(a)icann.org>, At-Large Worldwide <alac(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org>, NA Discuss <na-discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org> >Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] [At-Large] GNSO Improvements Statement Edits > >So am I. Quite better. > >It would be nice to receive it in a «more» readable format. :-) > >Louis Houle >ISOC Québec > >Evan Leibovitch a écrit : >> Brendler, Beau wrote: >> >>> I'm closer to supporting this than anything else I've seen yet. >>> >>> Danny, Evan, what do you think (the document is a little difficult to read as it's very wide, I'm referring to Nick's revisions on the right). >>> >>> >> It is a massive step in the right direction, specifically in suggesting >> that ALAC may still play a role in GNSO while drafters are aware of its >> flowchart-rewriting consequences. >> >> I hope that there are lessons learned going forward -- certainly >> mistakes were made to get us to this point -- but on the immediate issue >> of "what do we send regarding the GNSO improvements" I like Nick's >> draft. Please -- especially amongst those who took issue with the >> original "final" versions -- if anyone has suggestions to make please >> offer them now. >> >> - Evan >> >> >> ------ >> NA-Discuss mailing list >> NA-Discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >> http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss_atlarge-lists.ic… >> >> Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org >> ------ >> >> > > >------ >NA-Discuss mailing list >NA-Discuss(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss_atlarge-lists.ic… > >Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org >------ Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1(a)ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827

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Transparency & the ICANN Contractual Compliance Newsletter
by Danny Younger May 5, 2008

May 5, 2008

Dear Ms. Burnette, I am appreciative of the fact that ICANN has generated this newsletter, but I have a number of concerns related to transparency. We are told that during 2007 a total of 164 breach of contract notices were sent to registrars. While this effort is to be commended, users would assuredly want to know which registrars are in breach of contract (and for what reason) at any given point in time so that they can make informed choices regarding which registration providers to use. Hiding this valuable information from consumers is not what I would deem to be a public service, rather, I view it as a profound disservice. While it does serve to protect the interest of registrars, it most certainly doesn't serve to properly protect the public. May I ask why ICANN has chosen to conceal this information? Is this behavior owing to a deliberate policy decision that has been made by ICANN Staff? Does Staff intend to continue concealing registrar contract breaches at the expense of the registrant community, or can we expect this situation to change in the immediate future? Hopefully you can help us to better understand the situation and the Staff perspective on transparency. best regards, Danny Younger ____________________________________________________________________________________ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com

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Re: [At-Large] New CIRA Whois Policy Strikes Balance Between Privacy and Access
by Jeffrey A. Williams May 5, 2008

May 5, 2008

Derek, John, and all, Same is essentially true for Google.com, gmail.com, googlemail.com, and wikipedia.org, as well as 68,000 other Domain names in the US, yet it seems that John is emphisizing Canada in particular? Very odd indeed! -----Original Message----- >From: Derek Smythe <derek(a)aa419.org> >Sent: May 3, 2008 11:47 AM >To: alac(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >Subject: Re: [At-Large] New CIRA Whois Policy Strikes Balance Between Privacy and Access > >Sadly I have to agree with John. > >Why, doesn't cxeibbltd.com just host a lovely domain, privacy >protected and all! > >That is until you search on the telephone number given on the contact >page, 1-800-882-4036 and start digging deeper. > >However, all is not bad. The privacy provider for the mentioned domain >will most likely expose whois since they have a zero fraud tolerance >and the Registrar as will cancel it. > >There is a lesson to learn here: Checks and balances. > >Many of these scammers' domains pass our hands regularly, I would like >to say I live in the real world of the Internet. > >However, what is CIRA's policy upon encountering a similar situation? >If the responses are one of the stock standard: >- DRP, who will pay for the procedures for all those lovely scam, >spam, phish domains? >- Law Enforcement, I can guarantee you once again the process will be >flawed unless the RCP rapidly expands their forces overnight. >- Court Order, which court in which country? >- Will the company vs private registrant rule be enforced? > >http://www.cira.ca/en/documents/2007/PRP-rant-agreementv1.7.pdf >How do you promptly resolve an issue? Evidence of residence faxed is >as far as your nearest DTP package. I can show you many ID's and >employee cards published by all but the logos of the institutions they >claim to represent. Snail mail for a phishing domain? > >To spice up the mix, we just add a large known contingent of scammers >and carders known to live on the Toronto area, some of who have made >the headlines already recently. > >I can show list upon list of registrants that turned out to be the >same person, all determined by analyzing whois details. This >information has been used to protect the all internet users time and >again. Who will do this at CIRA where full whois info is not visible? >How will they collaborate with other parties? > >Pardon me if I sound cynical, but I have seen too many abuse reports >ignored and too many ordinary internet users suffer the consequences. > >I guess history will tell. > >Regards > >Derek > > > >John Levine wrote: >>> kudos to CIRA for not only developing a privacy friendly WHOIS policy - >>> but also implementing it. >> >> Yes indeed. Every crook, scammer, phisher, and fraudster from St Johns to >> Victoria really appreciates it. >> >> R's, >> John >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ALAC mailing list >> ALAC(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >> http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org >> >> At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org >> > > >_______________________________________________ >ALAC mailing list >ALAC(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org > >At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org Always diligent, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 277k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1(a)ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827

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Re: [At-Large] New CIRA Whois Policy - fear mongering?
by Jeffrey A. Williams May 5, 2008

May 5, 2008

Ross and all, So corporate registrants are able to opt-out. Really peachy! < sarcasm intended > And for the icing on the cake, third parties whom are not truly accountable to anyone have unrestricted access. Even more peachy! < more sarcasm intended > Seems to me the CIRA made the RCMP job another level of complex as now they have to keep an eye on both the registrants/registrars/ registries AND the new third parties with unrestricted access to Whois data. A master stroke, Genius! < more sarcasm intended > Soon now the sale of registrants whois private data will take a price hike and the bidding will commence, offline of course, or over VPN's, which are virtually impossible to trace. How special! Not only this a new market has been created, that of third party falsely editing CA whois data for a price, without the true registrant knowing of course... Sounds alot like Wikipedia all over again, eh? Now I have to wonder how and if other law enforcement agencies are going to be able to give cart blanche trust to these third parties for .CA domains and Whois data being accurate. I can only say that none of our Canadian members will... -----Original Message----- >From: Ross Rader <ross(a)tucows.com> >Sent: May 4, 2008 4:19 PM >To: Evan Leibovitch <evan(a)telly.org> >Cc: Bill Silverstein <icann-list(a)sorehands.com>, alac(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >Subject: Re: [At-Large] New CIRA Whois Policy - fear mongering? > >Evan Leibovitch wrote: > >> Just to be clear... are corporate registrants not able to opt out? > >No. > >> Are these channels limited to law enforcement? > >No. > >/ross > >_______________________________________________ >ALAC mailing list >ALAC(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org > >At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1(a)ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827

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Re: [At-Large] New CIRA Whois Policy - fear mongering?
by Jeffrey A. Williams May 4, 2008

May 4, 2008

Bill and all, I am not going to comment on your case in particular, but I can contest and would be more than willing to sware under oath myself that no matter how many times anyone reports spaming, phishing, or other fraudulent uses of Whois acquired data, if those companies or organizations are of a significant stature, they are rarely pursued by law enforcment. One has to wonder why. I myself have reported some 99 such incidents in less than a year now, and not one as far as I know or can determine are being pursued by law enforcment. I find such extrodinary if not entirely disreputable of law enforcment, sad to say... Further still it seems odd that CIRA and ICANN have not taken the lead here in addressing these inadaquacies and inconsistancies as well. -----Original Message----- >From: Bill Silverstein <icann-list(a)sorehands.com> >Sent: May 4, 2008 10:16 AM >To: alac(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >Subject: [At-Large] New CIRA Whois Policy - fear mongering? > >> There's simply no basis for your fear mongering. > >There is no fear mongering. I am litigating against e360Insight and >included Moniker as Defendant for providing anonymous whois service to >spammers. Moniker has not identified or terminated the spammers, either >e360 or on the original registrant of domain names that they claim do not >belong to e360) > >Of course, I provided Moniker with copies of the spam (under oath) which >Moniker admits that some of that spam are using BagainDepot's (sister >company/co-defendant) anonymously registered domain names. > >I am not law enforcement. Just one of the people who tired of spammers >using his servers as a using his inbox as a garbage can. Even is law >enforcement was provided this information, there still need to be >additional steps taken which will slow down the identification process. Do >you think the FTC will start investigating a spammer that only sent 100 >spams? Anonymous domain name registrations also prevent one from >identifying how many are tied to a single spammer. > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >ALAC mailing list >ALAC(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org > >At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1(a)ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827

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Re: [At-Large] New CIRA Whois Policy Strikes Balance Between Privacy and Access
by Jeffrey A. Williams May 3, 2008

May 3, 2008

Ross and all, I respectfully in part disagree with the tenor and tone of your response to Dereks valid concern. He indeed may or should clarify his concern as it is not the privacy of PII data contained in a Whois record that is the acctual problem, but rather the lack of accuracy of non-pii Whois data in a whois record that is essential to be corrected and overseen in an active and expediant manner so that correction of such can be effected appropriately and with all due haste. Secondly, "Abuse" Email contact addresses need to be made manditory in all Whois records, which is clearly not the case today and hasn't been for a very long time now (years), as is phone contact information for the Admin Email contact. -----Original Message----- >From: Ross Rader <ross(a)tucows.com> >Sent: May 3, 2008 12:32 PM >To: "derek(a)aa419.org" <derek(a)aa419.org> >Cc: "alac(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org" <alac(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org> >Subject: Re: [At-Large] New CIRA Whois Policy Strikes Balance Between Privacy and Access > >Whois privacy for .ca names is nothing new. Implementation of this >policy will simply standardize it across the namespace. There's simply >no basis for your fear mongering. > >--- >Warm regards, > >-Ross > > > > > >Sent from my iPhone using my DomainDirect.com personalized mobile >email. Ask me how it works! > > > >On 3-May-08, at 2:47 PM, Derek Smythe <derek(a)aa419.org> wrote: > >> Sadly I have to agree with John. >> >> Why, doesn't cxeibbltd.com just host a lovely domain, privacy >> protected and all! >> >> That is until you search on the telephone number given on the contact >> page, 1-800-882-4036 and start digging deeper. >> >> However, all is not bad. The privacy provider for the mentioned domain >> will most likely expose whois since they have a zero fraud tolerance >> and the Registrar as will cancel it. >> >> There is a lesson to learn here: Checks and balances. >> >> Many of these scammers' domains pass our hands regularly, I would like >> to say I live in the real world of the Internet. >> >> However, what is CIRA's policy upon encountering a similar situation? >> If the responses are one of the stock standard: >> - DRP, who will pay for the procedures for all those lovely scam, >> spam, phish domains? >> - Law Enforcement, I can guarantee you once again the process will be >> flawed unless the RCP rapidly expands their forces overnight. >> - Court Order, which court in which country? >> - Will the company vs private registrant rule be enforced? >> >> http://www.cira.ca/en/documents/2007/PRP-rant-agreementv1.7.pdf >> How do you promptly resolve an issue? Evidence of residence faxed is >> as far as your nearest DTP package. I can show you many ID's and >> employee cards published by all but the logos of the institutions they >> claim to represent. Snail mail for a phishing domain? >> >> To spice up the mix, we just add a large known contingent of scammers >> and carders known to live on the Toronto area, some of who have made >> the headlines already recently. >> >> I can show list upon list of registrants that turned out to be the >> same person, all determined by analyzing whois details. This >> information has been used to protect the all internet users time and >> again. Who will do this at CIRA where full whois info is not visible? >> How will they collaborate with other parties? >> >> Pardon me if I sound cynical, but I have seen too many abuse reports >> ignored and too many ordinary internet users suffer the consequences. >> >> I guess history will tell. >> >> Regards >> >> Derek >> >> >> >> John Levine wrote: >>>> kudos to CIRA for not only developing a privacy friendly WHOIS >>>> policy - >>>> but also implementing it. >>> >>> Yes indeed. Every crook, scammer, phisher, and fraudster from St >>> Johns to >>> Victoria really appreciates it. >>> >>> R's, >>> John >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ALAC mailing list >>> ALAC(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >>> http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org >>> >>> At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ALAC mailing list >> ALAC(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >> http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org >> >> At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org > >_______________________________________________ >ALAC mailing list >ALAC(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org > >At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org Always diligent, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 277k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1(a)ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827

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Re: [At-Large] New CIRA Whois Policy Strikes Balance Between Privacy and Access
by Jeffrey A. Williams May 3, 2008

May 3, 2008

Derek and all, The privacy act took into account many various considerations in respect to criminal activity, database privacy, which Whois essentially is not withstanding. Criminal activity in respect to Domain registration and consequencial Whois related data has far more to do with lack of accuracy (read falsefying some registration information ) than it does with using privacy to protect the potential criminal activity. Conversly, lack of good privacy for registrants presupposes that all registrants are potential suspects in some criminal activity or may decide to become involved in same. This assumption is of course falaonious in nature and in fact as the vast majority of registrants are not now, nor are likely to become involved directly in criminal activity of any sort. These are indeed the most RELEVANT FACTS, which I hope and am sure are of the most and relevant interest to you Derek. -----Original Message----- >From: Derek Smythe <derek(a)aa419.org> >Sent: May 3, 2008 1:14 PM >To: Ross Rader <ross(a)tucows.com> >Cc: "alac(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org" <alac(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org> >Subject: Re: [At-Large] New CIRA Whois Policy Strikes Balance Between Privacy and Access > >Ross, > >I do not deal in fear mongering, I deal in practicalities and facts. >As such, if there is anything I said that you considerer as such, >please say which and I can gladly illustrate the point as having a >basis. I am sure you could also get many examples of each from all who >deals with abuse issues. > >Much as we all would like to see privacy across all name spaces long >term, if no checks and balances are in places before such >implementation and the recognition of a basic fact that criminal >elements would even more dearly love "privacy" than us normal law >obedient registrants, we are only exacerbating abuse problems. > >Derek > > Ross Rader wrote: >> Whois privacy for .ca names is nothing new. Implementation of this >> policy will simply standardize it across the namespace. There's simply >> no basis for your fear mongering. >> >> --- >> Warm regards, >> >> -Ross >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone using my DomainDirect.com personalized mobile email. >> Ask me how it works! >> >> >> >> On 3-May-08, at 2:47 PM, Derek Smythe <derek(a)aa419.org> wrote: >> >>> Sadly I have to agree with John. >>> >>> Why, doesn't cxeibbltd.com just host a lovely domain, privacy >>> protected and all! >>> >>> That is until you search on the telephone number given on the contact >>> page, 1-800-882-4036 and start digging deeper. >>> >>> However, all is not bad. The privacy provider for the mentioned domain >>> will most likely expose whois since they have a zero fraud tolerance >>> and the Registrar as will cancel it. >>> >>> There is a lesson to learn here: Checks and balances. >>> >>> Many of these scammers' domains pass our hands regularly, I would like >>> to say I live in the real world of the Internet. >>> >>> However, what is CIRA's policy upon encountering a similar situation? >>> If the responses are one of the stock standard: >>> - DRP, who will pay for the procedures for all those lovely scam, >>> spam, phish domains? >>> - Law Enforcement, I can guarantee you once again the process will be >>> flawed unless the RCP rapidly expands their forces overnight. >>> - Court Order, which court in which country? >>> - Will the company vs private registrant rule be enforced? >>> >>> http://www.cira.ca/en/documents/2007/PRP-rant-agreementv1.7.pdf >>> How do you promptly resolve an issue? Evidence of residence faxed is >>> as far as your nearest DTP package. I can show you many ID's and >>> employee cards published by all but the logos of the institutions they >>> claim to represent. Snail mail for a phishing domain? >>> >>> To spice up the mix, we just add a large known contingent of scammers >>> and carders known to live on the Toronto area, some of who have made >>> the headlines already recently. >>> >>> I can show list upon list of registrants that turned out to be the >>> same person, all determined by analyzing whois details. This >>> information has been used to protect the all internet users time and >>> again. Who will do this at CIRA where full whois info is not visible? >>> How will they collaborate with other parties? >>> >>> Pardon me if I sound cynical, but I have seen too many abuse reports >>> ignored and too many ordinary internet users suffer the consequences. >>> >>> I guess history will tell. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Derek >>> >>> >>> >>> John Levine wrote: >>>>> kudos to CIRA for not only developing a privacy friendly WHOIS policy - >>>>> but also implementing it. >>>> >>>> Yes indeed. Every crook, scammer, phisher, and fraudster from St >>>> Johns to >>>> Victoria really appreciates it. >>>> >>>> R's, >>>> John >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> ALAC mailing list >>>> ALAC(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >>>> http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org >>>> >>>> >>>> At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ALAC mailing list >>> ALAC(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >>> http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org >>> >>> >>> At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org >> > > >_______________________________________________ >ALAC mailing list >ALAC(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org > >At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org Always diligent, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 277k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1(a)ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827

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