October 2009 - At-Large - lists.icann.org

Re: [At-Large] [ALAC] ALAC-NCUC
by Beau Brendler Oct. 19, 2009

Oct. 19, 2009

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Re: [At-Large] "placeholder" reps not placeholders?
by Beau Brendler Oct. 19, 2009

Oct. 19, 2009

Roberto, you wrote: "New constituencies will not have the right to appoint their "own" councillors, but will have the right to participate in WGs and other policy making processes and bodies, will have support from ICANN staff and resources to self-organize, will be able to participate with their own representatives in the Executive Committee of the NCSG, etc. In simple words, what we have tried to do is to create a balance and hopefully a possible way to coexist and, in time, to collaborate, for all the different components of the wide and diverse non-commercial internet community." I find the SIC's explanation and reasoning in this matter to be patronizing at worst, and deluded at best. With all due respect, the board or the SIC or whomever was responsible for proposing this scenario, has done so without responsible regard or awareness for democratic systems. The ICANN "community" as you call it is already dominated by commercial interests, all of whom somehow manage to have constituencies with votes on their behalf. To suggest that a public interest contingent of the community must do its job with board-appointed representatives and "consensus building," with the "right to form working groups," etc., is a patronizing attitude and, as it applies to a constituency model for consumer groups, a stillborn idea. I am reminded of the creation of at-large as an advisory panel with no voting power, and I am reminded of the at-large's tooth and nail fight to get a board seat (after one of ICANN's many consultants suggested it should have two, but that's better than nothing). Why do you suppose the at-large argued for board representation? Has ICANN not learned from the last two years? The board needs to reconsider this decision, and in fact the entire structure of the NCSG at this point. With the current scenario, and the lack of transparency in the decision-making process, I see no responsible course other than to ask the members of the consumer organization constituency to convene, present this situation to them, and suggest to them my opinion that they should dissolve. By the way, Danny Younger sent a letter to Diane Schroeder, which I co-signed, asking for reconsideration, as you mention. Perhaps it is time for the Structural Improvements Committee, along with the volunteers involved in forming the constituencies, interested parties from the NCUC, and other stakeholders to meet in Seoul to achieve some real, bottom-up, transparent consensus. -----Original Message----- >From: Dominik Filipp <dominik.filipp(a)dsoft.sk> >Sent: Oct 19, 2009 7:18 AM >To: At-Large Worldwide <at-large(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org>, James Seng <james(a)seng.sg>, alac-bounces(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org, William Drake <william.drake(a)graduateinstitute.ch> >Cc: ALAC Working List <alac(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org> >Subject: Re: [At-Large] "placeholder" reps not placeholders? > >Roberto, > >Frankly, I am surprised by the arguments you present and tend to defend. >The argument and further elaboration on "move the focus away from the >vote, which is by its nature divisive, onto the consensus building >process" is in fact a scorn for natural democratic tradition the western >world is based on. It reminds me of a big boss or brother having patent >for reasonable decisions driving a bunch of more or less incompetent >people. And of course, the best big boss would be one nominated by some >government obviously cumulating the wisest people in the world, or even >better a strong business monopoly player. Nice and still attractive >fiction, isn't it? >But now seriously, such a SIC proposal just presents a persisting fear >of loosing control of some people over the decision process. There is no >reason for constituency without voting power. The voting power is >crucial and essential point of new constituency system and any >discussion casting doubt upon this should be refused from the very >beginning. In my opinion, this should be explicitly spoken out and >pointed out in Seoul as a clear message from At-Large to the Board. >To avoid the "frivolous" creation of constituencies for the simple >purpose of getting a vote" can easily be overcome by transparent rules >by which new constituencies can be established. The voting power gives >them necessary right and accountability towards the community they >represent. The obstinate attitude of keeping control in few hands at all >prices indicates persisting misunderstanding of how accountable >community representing interests of millions should be driven, and as >such, it becomes a main obstacle in achieving a progress in ICANN >society. > >I guess the name SIC is misspelled. It should write SICK. > >Dominik > > >-----Original Message----- >From: at-large-bounces(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >[mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Roberto >Gaetano >Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 8:16 AM >To: 'At-Large Worldwide'; 'James Seng'; >alac-bounces(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org; 'William Drake' >Cc: 'ALAC Working List' >Subject: Re: [At-Large] "placeholder" reps not placeholders? > >Beau, > >> >> By the way, is it true what I heard that the three newly >> appointed GNSO people have now been hard-wired in to two-year >> terms? I don't really see a constituency model working under >> those circumstances. Who's going to join a constituency if >> they have to wait two years to be able to directly elect a >> representative? No consumer group I am aware of is going to >> want to do that. > > >I think that we will need to clarify many things in Seoul, one of which >is >the reason for certain decisions of the SIC. > >For instance, the SIC has decided, after long discussion, not to have an >automatic link between creation of a constituency and establishment of a >seat in the Council. The reasons against this position include what you >correctly point out, i.e. that it will be more difficult to get people's >interest if there's no immediate representation in terms of voting >rights. >However, there are also reasons for taking this approach. One of these >is >that we have to avoid the "frivolous" creation of constituencies for the >simple purpose of getting a vote. A bit like create empty shells as >registrars to have a higher firing power for getting valuable names. >Another >observation is that in the "old" council it was exactly the fact that >the >creation of a new constituency would have altered the voting balance >that de >facto prevented the creation of any new constituency in 10 years. > >But the main point for the SIC to maintain the concept of constituency, >against the open opposition of NCUC, but to keep it without an automatic >voting power, against the obvious concerns of who wants to build new >constituencies, is the leit-motiv that has guided the whole process of >the >review: move the focus away from the vote, which is by its nature >divisive, >onto the consensus building process. >New constituencies will not have the right to appoint their "own" >councillors, but will have the right to participate in WGs and other >policy >making processes and bodies, will have support from ICANN staff and >resources to self-organize, will be able to participate with their own >representatives in the Executive Committee of the NCSG, etc. >In simple words, what we have tried to do is to create a balance and >hopefully a possible way to coexist and, in time, to collaborate, for >all >the different components of the wide and diverse non-commercial internet >community. Somebody on this list has spoken about "reconsideration" of >the >Board's decision. This is surely possible. But what I would propose is >to >try to discuss and understand if what the SIC has proposed can work in >practice, although it is not going to be perfect for anybody, before >shooting it down and start all over again. This discussion is for me one >of >the main priorities, if not the first priority altogether, in Seoul, >which >as you all know will mark the end of my term as Director. > >The ALAC and the NCUC are two big parts of this picture, the only >organized >bodies in ICANN so far (for non-commercial users), I personally think >that >the first step can be to have a joint discussion in Seoul. Bill's >proposal >of meeting in an event that is not only work, but also social, goes in >this >sense, methinks. > >Cheers, >Roberto > > > >_______________________________________________ >At-Large mailing list >At-Large(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large_atlarge-lists.i >cann.org > >At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org > > >_______________________________________________ >At-Large mailing list >At-Large(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large_atlarge-lists.ican… > >At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org

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Travel schedule to Seoul
by Rudi Vansnick Oct. 18, 2009

Oct. 18, 2009

Dear all, Who else flies to Seoul through Frankfurt with flight LH712 on 23/10 departure time 6:40pm ? I'm arriving in Frankfurt with flight LH4577 arrival time 3:40pm from Brussels. Best regards Rudi Vansnick President Internet Society Belgium vzw Voorzitter TIK vzw Board member EURALO (ALAC - ICANN) Tel: +32 (0)70 77 39 39 GSM: +32 (0)475 28 16 32 www.isoc.be <http://www.isoc.be> - www.vansnick.eu <http://www.vansnick.eu>

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DEATH NOTICE: Stuart Duncan, Director & Chief Operating Officer at ICM Registry
by Joe Baptista Oct. 18, 2009

Oct. 18, 2009

In memory of Stuart Duncan, Director & Chief Operating Officer at ICM Registry (the people who just sued ICANN) died on Saturday 10th October 2009 after period of illness. He will be greatly missed at ICM and was an invaluable member of the team over the last 6 years. For more information and links - see http://bit.ly/2fOQAg regards joe baptista

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ICANN Acronym Buster (from GNSO Council list)
by Adam Peake Oct. 17, 2009

Oct. 17, 2009

Might be useful <http://www.andalucia.com/icann/> (btw, GNSO archive kills email addresses...) Adam >To: Council GNSO <council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >Subject: [council] Acronym Buster! >From: Adrian Kinderis <adrian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 16:30:13 +1100 > >I received the following from Chris Chaplow and believe it could be somewhat >useful for ICANN Meetings and newbies! > >Adrian Kinderis > >Dear all, > >One of the ideas to come out of the CCT - Sub team, 1 "design >scrum" (see earlier post) was an "Acronym helper". > >This has been requested many times and was discussed at the Sydney >GNSO council meeting. > >One of my programmers has produced a BETA test and located it at: > >http://www.andalucia.com/icann > >Feel free to test it by entering the first letters of you favourite >ICANN GNSO Acronyms. > >We used the out of date Acronym list currently on the GNSO website >as the basis. > >I now respectfully ask the BC to "Suggest an Acronym" in the form >at the lower part of the page. > >There are many to do. > >Feel free to pass this tool to other members and lists of the >community who may find it useful. > >Any testing and comments welcome to me chris@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >In this way we will build up the Acronym database so that the >"Acronym Helper" it will be ready to migrate onto the new GNSO >website (in the header of every page) when it is launched in due >course. >

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Re: [At-Large] ICANN Acronym Buster (from GNSO Council list)
by Joe Baptista Oct. 16, 2009

Oct. 16, 2009

It's a good service. Added the GA earlier this morning. Well done. joe On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 5:43 AM, Adam Peake <ajp(a)glocom.ac.jp> wrote: > Might be useful <http://www.andalucia.com/icann/> (btw, GNSO archive > kills email addresses...) > > Adam > > > > > To: Council GNSO <council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> Subject: [council] Acronym Buster! >> From: Adrian Kinderis <adrian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 16:30:13 +1100 >> >> I received the following from Chris Chaplow and believe it could be >> somewhat >> useful for ICANN Meetings and newbies! >> >> Adrian Kinderis >> >> Dear all, >> >> One of the ideas to come out of the CCT - Sub team, 1 "design scrum" >> (see earlier post) was an "Acronym helper". >> >> This has been requested many times and was discussed at the Sydney GNSO >> council meeting. >> >> One of my programmers has produced a BETA test and located it at: >> >> http://www.andalucia.com/icann >> >> Feel free to test it by entering the first letters of you favourite ICANN >> GNSO Acronyms. >> >> We used the out of date Acronym list currently on the GNSO website as the >> basis. >> >> I now respectfully ask the BC to "Suggest an Acronym" in the form at the >> lower part of the page. >> >> There are many to do. >> >> Feel free to pass this tool to other members and lists of the community >> who may find it useful. >> >> Any testing and comments welcome to me chris@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> >> In this way we will build up the Acronym database so that the "Acronym >> Helper" it will be ready to migrate onto the new GNSO website (in the header >> of every page) when it is launched in due course. >> >> > _______________________________________________ > At-Large mailing list > At-Large(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > > http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large_atlarge-lists.ican… > > At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org >

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Re: [At-Large] ICANN Acronym Buster (from GNSO Council list)
by Evan Leibovitch Oct. 16, 2009

Oct. 16, 2009

2009/10/16 Adam Peake <ajp(a)glocom.ac.jp> Might be useful <http://www.andalucia.com/icann/> (btw, GNSO archive kills > email addresses...) > May be, but just saying what the acronym stands for -- without explanation -- is of very limited use IMO. I have found that just typing "<acronym> ICANN" into Google (which most people can do right from their browser) usually provides satisfactory results -- including for the timely acronym "DAG" which is missing from the above site. We know that ICANN can create acronyms faster than most people can memorize them, so I just let an automated system such as Google keep track. - Evan

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Re: [At-Large] [ALAC] ALAC-NCUC
by Beau Brendler Oct. 16, 2009

Oct. 16, 2009

I will check the ALAC schedule. We usually do not have evening events. -----Original Message----- >From: William Drake <william.drake(a)graduateinstitute.ch> >Sent: Oct 15, 2009 10:37 AM >To: Beau Brendler <beaubrendler(a)earthlink.net> >Cc: investigaciones(a)densi.com.ar, James Seng <james(a)seng.sg>, ALAC Working List <alac(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org>, At-Large Worldwide <at-large(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org> >Subject: Re: [ALAC] ALAC-NCUC > >Hi Beau, et al, > >On Oct 15, 2009, at 3:10 PM, Beau Brendler wrote: > >> Last week, at the ISOC-NY event with Danny Younger, Milton Mueller >> and me, more than one person in attendance from ISOC encouraged us >> to put aside our differences and work to a solution on behalf of >> users. Milton's presentation was very clear and well-received. So as >> an elected member of at-large, I see it as a responsibility to do >> what the voters ask. Would be glad to have a drink. Korean shoju is >> particularly excellent for breaking the ice, and I've never had a >> hangover from it yet. > >Then you plainly have not drunk enough of it, the stuff can be >suitably lethal when taken in immoderation. > >As Olivier points out, it appears there's an IDN, ccTLD fast track >reception Monday night, and I am loath to ask people to skip free >libation and carousing. We could just gather in the lobby afterwards >and head off somewhere to eat (concierge can recommend), although we >need to clarify when that would be---the online schedule says it ends >at 20:00, but the GNSO schedule received this morning from staff says >20:30. > >Alternatively, Thursday night seems open at the moment...not to >complicate things, but does ALAC have anything then, and if not would >this be preferable? > >Either way, I'm glad to hear people are interested. Let's figure out >when and then I'll write to NCUC, rather than having two date >discussions running in parallel. > >Thanks, > >Bill > >

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Weekly posting summary for alac@atlarge-lists.icann.org
by Thomas Narten Oct. 16, 2009

Oct. 16, 2009

Total of 54 messages in the last 7 days. script run at: Fri Oct 16 00:53:03 EDT 2009 Messages | Bytes | Who --------+------+--------+----------+------------------------ 16.67% | 9 | 87.43% | 3646163 | alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca 9.26% | 5 | 1.14% | 47545 | dannyyounger at yahoo.com 5.56% | 3 | 4.09% | 170591 | rudi.vansnick at isoc.be 7.41% | 4 | 0.87% | 36076 | beaubrendler at earthlink.net 5.56% | 3 | 0.41% | 17124 | joly at punkcast.com 3.70% | 2 | 0.81% | 33909 | jsalgueiro at cantv.net 3.70% | 2 | 0.59% | 24580 | sebastien.bachollet at isoc.fr 3.70% | 2 | 0.56% | 23483 | carlosaguirre62 at hotmail.com 3.70% | 2 | 0.46% | 19277 | carlton.samuels at uwimona.edu.jm 3.70% | 2 | 0.44% | 18413 | langdonorr at gmail.com 3.70% | 2 | 0.44% | 18186 | denise.michel at icann.org 3.70% | 2 | 0.39% | 16252 | ajp at glocom.ac.jp 3.70% | 2 | 0.27% | 11068 | william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch 3.70% | 2 | 0.27% | 11055 | nick.ashton-hart at icann.org 3.70% | 2 | 0.23% | 9663 | epstein at free.fr 1.85% | 1 | 0.29% | 11922 | vanda at uol.com.br 1.85% | 1 | 0.18% | 7641 | investigaciones at densi.com.ar 1.85% | 1 | 0.17% | 7053 | james at seng.sg 1.85% | 1 | 0.17% | 6981 | hawadiakite at gmail.com 1.85% | 1 | 0.17% | 6946 | narten at us.ibm.com 1.85% | 1 | 0.14% | 5955 | ocl at gih.com 1.85% | 1 | 0.13% | 5481 | andrespiazzagpj at hotmail.com 1.85% | 1 | 0.13% | 5462 | khaled.koubaa at topnet.tn 1.85% | 1 | 0.12% | 4985 | evan at telly.org 1.85% | 1 | 0.11% | 4676 | dmiloshevic at afilias.info --------+------+--------+----------+------------------------ 100.00% | 54 |100.00% | 4170487 | Total

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ALAC-NCUC
by William Drake Oct. 15, 2009

Oct. 15, 2009

Hi, No formal meeting between ALAC and NCUC has been set for Seoul, which to me is a pity but whatever. However, that doesn't mean that interested folks can't get together for more informal chatting about mutual concerns and such. At the moment NCUC has nothing programmed for Monday night, don't know about ALAC. Might anyone here be available for a drink at day's end, or even dinner? If so I'm sure we can rustle up a good NCUC contingent. Best, Bill *********************************************************** William J. Drake Senior Associate Centre for International Governance Graduate Institute of International and Development Studies Geneva, Switzerland william.drake(a)graduateinstitute.ch www.graduateinstitute.ch/cig/drake.html ***********************************************************

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