- At-Large - lists.icann.org

Re: [At-Large] Replacement for the JPA ?
by Roberto Gaetano Oct. 1, 2009

Oct. 1, 2009

There is a Board meeting at 11:00 UTC today (2009-09-30). Hell will break loose at 14:00 UTC, when the communiqué is going to be released and the press conference will take place. This will be 10:00 EDT, as the event will take place in Washington, DC. As for whether "She" [uppercase in the original text ;>)] was right or not, as an international civil servant I would decline to comment. But you might compare the text of the press release with the proposals made in the last months, including the G-12, and draw your own conclusions. One thing is undeniable: if ICANN has to move towards more internationalization, as there seem to be consensus on, we need more collaboration among different stakeholders, including governments worldwide. So, right or wrong on one specific issue is, in the long run, not the main thing. What is important is that Europe (as all other countries and regions worldwide) engages in this internationalization process. Which, in my personal reading of the events, is indeed happening. Last but not least, I believe that ALAC has a role of the paramount importance in this internationalization process, as it has roots in the local communities. From my point of view, it would be a positive thing if ALAC analyses this document, when it will be public, and take a position on it, keeping in mind that the issue is not just a political statement, but active engagement in the territory to make ICANN more international in the facts, not only in the intentions. Cheers, Roberto > -----Original Message----- > From: at-large-bounces(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > [mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf > Of Sébastien Bachollet > Sent: Wednesday, 30 September 2009 00:30 > To: 'At-Large Worldwide' > Subject: Re: [At-Large] Replacement for the JPA ? > > I am not sure that it is "just speculation"... > And yes it is a way to say that She was right. > > Sébastien Bachollet > Président d'honneur - Isoc France > sebastien.bachollet(a)isoc.fr > www.egeni.org > www.isoc.fr > > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > De : at-large-bounces(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:at-large- > > bounces(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org] De la part de John R. > Levine Envoyé : > > mercredi 30 septembre 2009 00:15 À : At-Large Worldwide Objet : Re: > > [At-Large] Replacement for the JPA ? > > > > > All the information are here ;) > > > But sorry it is in French > > > > http://www.lemonde.fr/technologies/article/2009/09/29/le-controle-de > > > - > > l-icann > > > -un-enjeu-diplomatique_1246600_651865.html#xtor=AL-32280270 > > > > But that article is just speculation, and a rehash of > Viviane Reding's > > video from May. > > > > R's, > > John > > > > _______________________________________________ > > At-Large mailing list > > At-Large(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > > http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large_atlarge- > > lists.icann.org > > > > At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org > > > _______________________________________________ > At-Large mailing list > At-Large(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large_atlar ge-lists.icann.org > > At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org

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Fw: Posicion de Internauta Argentina por el cctld .hn
by Presidencia Internauta Oct. 1, 2009

Oct. 1, 2009

Posición de Internauta Argentina ante el intento del Gobierno Golpista de Honduras para tomar de forma repentina y abrupta la operación del cctld .hn La Asociación Argentina de Usuarios de Internet, quiere manifestar su repudio al acto criminal del que fueron objeto los compañeros integrantes de la Red de Desarrollo Sostenible de Honduras por parte de la dictadura de la Republica hermana de Honduras. Proseguimos con nuestra solidaridad con el pueblo Hondureño manifestada desde el primer momento que sucedió el movimiento destituyente en ese país, como hemos acompañado todo reclamo y lucha por la justicia y la democracia de todos los pueblos del mundo. Creemos que solo la autodeterminación de los pueblos y el respeto del sistema democrático son los únicos medios idóneos para la solución de los problemas dentro de un país. No debe de haber lugar a legitimar ninguna acción propuesta por movimientos destituyentes del sistema democrático, por ninguna de las estructuras de participacion o de toma de decision de ICANN. Desconocemos la autoridad de estas personas que en nombre del estado de Honduras intentan someter la administración del cctld.hn e instamos a que ICANN se manifieste en este sentido, no puede quedar dudas de la ilegitimidad del accionar de estas personas. Repudiamos la acción u omisión en sus actos de muchos profesionales de informática que prestan sus conocimientos para apoyar estas inactivas del golpismo Antidemocrático Hondureño. Abogamos por el regreso del sistema constitucional al país como así también de su legítimo presidente Manuel Zelaya y repudiamos enérgicamente los abusos a los medios de comunicación y a la Red de Desarrollo Sostenible como ente encargada de la registración del cctld .hn. Saludos Cordiales Con mandato por la Comision Directiva reunida el dìa 28 de Septiembre de 2009 Firman: Sergio Salinas Porto (Presidente; Internauta, Asociación Argentina de Usuarios de Internet) Andrés Zelayeta (Vicepresidente; Internauta, Asociación Argentina de Usuarios de Internet) Hugo Pellejero (Secretario; Internauta, Asociación Argentina de Usuarios de Internet)

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Re: [At-Large] New gTLDs and Mitigating Malicious Conduct
by Beau Brendler Sept. 30, 2009

Sept. 30, 2009

Alan wrote: >But at the same time, I deeply regret that this work was only triggered by comments on the DAG2 and was not undertaken a LONG time ago. Although the details of malicious conduct have changed and probably expanded over time, much of the basic story has been around for a long time.< I appreciate this comment. More than a year ago, I recall a handful of people, myself included, raising concerns of this kind, and we were basically laughed at or derided as standing in the way of progress. Especially from the people wearing the "I (Heart) New gTLDs" buttons. By the way, I don't know what a DAG2 is. -----Original Message----- >From: Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg(a)mcgill.ca> >Sent: Sep 29, 2009 12:08 PM >To: ALAC Working List <alac(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org>, At-Large Worldwide <at-large(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org> >Subject: [At-Large] New gTLDs and Mitigating Malicious Conduct > >I just got off of the ICANN Webinar about the proposals Mitigating >Malicious Conduct for New gTLDs (and in some cases for all gTLDs). > >Without describing the proposals (which will be posted on the ICANN >web site in the near future) or trying to analyze or evaluate them in >any depth, I must say how pleasing it was to listen to. There was an >understanding of the issues, and a real attempt to address them which >clearly demonstrated that a lot of work had been done (and is still >to be done). > >But at the same time, I deeply regret that this work was only >triggered by comments on the DAG2 and was not undertaken a LONG time >ago. Although the details of malicious conduct have changed and >probably expanded over time, much of the basic story has been around >for a long time. > >Alan > > > >_______________________________________________ >At-Large mailing list >At-Large(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large_atlarge-lists.ican… > >At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org

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[Fwd: Our thoughts and prayers are with those in Samoa and the Pacific at this time]
by Cheryl Langdon-Orr Sept. 29, 2009

Sept. 29, 2009

I sent the following message of support to the APRALO list earlier today... As the details of the disaster affecting many of our friends, colleagues and clients in Samoa unfold may it be of some small measure of support to know that many of us are thinking of you all and that we trust that all goes well with you and yours in recovery from this tragic loss of life and property... Cheryl Langdon-Orr

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Re: [At-Large] Replacement for the JPA ?
by John R. Levine Sept. 29, 2009

Sept. 29, 2009

> All the information are here ;) > But sorry it is in French > http://www.lemonde.fr/technologies/article/2009/09/29/le-controle-de-l-icann > -un-enjeu-diplomatique_1246600_651865.html#xtor=AL-32280270 But that article is just speculation, and a rehash of Viviane Reding's video from May. R's, John

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New gTLDs and Mitigating Malicious Conduct
by Alan Greenberg Sept. 29, 2009

Sept. 29, 2009

I just got off of the ICANN Webinar about the proposals Mitigating Malicious Conduct for New gTLDs (and in some cases for all gTLDs). Without describing the proposals (which will be posted on the ICANN web site in the near future) or trying to analyze or evaluate them in any depth, I must say how pleasing it was to listen to. There was an understanding of the issues, and a real attempt to address them which clearly demonstrated that a lot of work had been done (and is still to be done). But at the same time, I deeply regret that this work was only triggered by comments on the DAG2 and was not undertaken a LONG time ago. Although the details of malicious conduct have changed and probably expanded over time, much of the basic story has been around for a long time. Alan

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DOODLE: At-Large Community Call / At-Large Director Appointment Process
by At-Large Staff Sept. 29, 2009

Sept. 29, 2009

Dear All, The ALAC Executive Committee wants to get community feedback from throughout the At-Large community on the current thinking which various community members have come up with on how to appoint a voting ICANN Board Director. You may find the current information and thinking at https://st.icann.org/working-groups/index.cgi?at_large_director_appointment_ process. We have created a Doodle page for you to indicate the preferred time and date you would like. If you need to participate in a language other than english, please put the language you need next to your name. http://www.doodle.com/krhkixt9srx9czp3 This Doodle poll closes Tuesday 29 September at 1200 UTC. BACKGROUND: As you know, In its meeting of 27th August 2009, the ICANN Board of Directors unanimously resolved as follows: 'IT IS RESOLVED THAT the recommendation of the BRWG (Board Review Working Group) to add one voting director appointed from the At-Large Community to the ICANN Board of Directors, and removing the present ALAC Liaison to the Board, is approved in principle for implementation. Staff is directed to identify all steps required to achieve the implementation of this principle, after issuing of the BRWG Final Report.' The proposal that one or more voting Director seats on the ICANN Board should be selected by the At-Large community is a recommendation of the recently-completed At-Large Independent Review process. The other recommendations in the Final Report of the Board's At-Large Review Working Group were approved by the Board during their meeting at the Sydney ICANN meeting in June. As referenced in the final part of the resolution, the next step in the implementation of the resolution will be the presentation at the Seoul meeting of the full report of the BRWG (Board Review Working Group), as this element of change of the Board is a part of the broader Board review process. In the meantime, the At-Large community's ALAC has resolved upon drawing up a process to submit to the Structural Improvements Committee of the Board at the Seoul ICANN Meeting. This section is for development of ideas and a draft process to that end. Thank you, Regards, Nick Ashton-Hart, Heidi Ullrich, Matthias Langenegger, Gisella Gruber-White ICANN At-Large Staff email: staff(a)atlarge.icann.org

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Board Liaison election
by Alan Greenberg Sept. 27, 2009

Sept. 27, 2009

For those who have not yet voted (or those are simply interested), I recently added my replies to the additional questions as well as a summary of the points I made in my opening address. https://st.icann.org/naralo/index.cgi?board_liaison_nominee_alan_greenberg https://st.icann.org/alac-docs/index.cgi?alan_greenberg Alan

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Re: [At-Large] (not really about) Travel Funding
by Alan Greenberg Sept. 27, 2009

Sept. 27, 2009

I find it noteworthy that if an American or European travels to Japan and wants to either do business there, or simply be socially acceptable, they VERY QUICKLY absorb the need for some basic change to accommodate local standards and expectations. Even if only in such a simple way a saying thank you in Japanese (even bad Japanese), learning the importance of business cards and how to exchange them, bowing, the exchange of small token gifts. And when they return home, they still practice these when interacting with Japanese people even on their own turf. And there are equivalent examples between most any two dissimilar cultures going in both directions. It is not the inability to learn about other cultures. It is often the mind-set that such learning is not required! Alan At 27/09/2009 09:17 AM, Joe Baptista wrote: >I got your point. And agree with it. But your insights will not alter the >cultural differences discussed here. North Americans and Europeans are not >going to change their ways because of a few cultural insights or complaints. > >Much simpler for those cultures to develop a thick skinned approach to >debate. What I see here from those "other" cultures in supporting these >arguments amounts to a lack of confidence in public debate. That is just one >interpretation out of many - right or wrong.

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Re: [At-Large] (not really about) Travel Funding
by JFC Morfin Sept. 27, 2009

Sept. 27, 2009

Dear Professor Hong Xue, I chair france@large which happens to be the oldest ALS (it was created by the French @large candidates to the only ICANN @large election in 2000). With other @larges, members of the largest ever self organised bottom-up ICANN community (icannatlarge.org) I incporated the ATLARGE organisation. We did not really activate it, not to confuse the parallel effort which permitted some other members to force their way into ICANN and create the ALAC. Last year france@large decided to join the ALAC to better welcome ICANN to its Paris meeting. Guess what? We were denied. Guess what? We were not surprised as we are interested in doing rather than in speaking (it seemed to worry ICANN?). Guess what? It helped us not to waste time with ICANN and work on issues of higher common interest. Our vision is that @larges actually are the Internet lead users. This means the users who have the technical, poltical, intellectual capacity to adapt the Internet to their needs; and this way to the needs of the other people. We adhere to the IAB RFC 3869 analysis that the internet is in a bad shape if it is only sponsored by merchants (we see it). We adhere to the WSIS vision of a people centered information society. We would love ICANN if was the secretariat of our common development. We are not really interested in what in became. We see what FLOSS did with computer software, and we suppose @larges can do it too at the network brainware level (organizing a better use together). For years our france@large priority was multilinguistics (understood as the cybernics of linguistic diversity). How to build a network system that: - (1) permits the existing 25.000 linguistic entities, and the 7 billions idiolects to use it with the same efficiency - (2) and due to that capacity, permits to 7 billions people to use their indivudal global internet the way they need and want it. For years, ICANN, NCUC and others prevented us from participating to their IDN related "work". So, we joined the IETF, created an @large "internet users contributing group" (IUCG) (http://iucg.org) in order to moderate the IETF linguistic policy and make possible a non-English biased and smart internet. Actually we need it to support the Semantic Internet we are interested in: the Intersem, the internet of thoughts - at brain to brain interintelligibility layers. Because we cannot leave it to merchants. Today, Vint Cerf, Chair of the WG/IDNABIS submitted the WG's produced documents over a long work of two years. The proposed solution is still "IETF English" language centric. However, different people contributed from different cultures. They helped us to smooth the "IETF technical Imperialism" (:-)) so much that I was able to just post an @large IETF Draft http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-iucg-punyplus-00.txt that (totally transparently to our everyday Internet) gives everyone exactly what we want at the DNS level. Now, we have to find a few developping teams to write prototypes in different environments and test them as IETF tests towards standardisation. On-line common @large work is not only made of the waste of time you suffer from. We wait for the end of next week, to know about the JPA renewal. Then we will decide if really new ICANN is possible or we must reactivate ATLARGE (http://atlarge.org) and call for help (not for committees, rules, Nomcoms, etc). Best. jfc At 03:37 27/09/2009, Hong Xue wrote: >It is even more difficult for Asians to take apart in the "list >discussion", not only because we are sky of our "plain English" or we >are not skin-thickety for such virtual tomato-fight, but we acutely >feel that we are not accepted by the main stream here. The messages we >took time to write and post were most probably un-responded, >overlooked or (susceptibly) trashed. Our views are not heard and not >taken into account. Our voices echo in the sound of silence. I'm not >going to use any concrete example to upset anyone for I believe in >Confucianism, which mandates tolerance as the core value. But I do >hope the cultural environment could change and become friendly to the >participants for any part of the world. > > -- >Hong Xue, Ph.D. >Professor of Law >Director of Institute for the Internet Policy & Law >Beijing Normal University >19 Xin Jie Kou Wai Street >Beijing 100875 China > > > > > >On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 5:33 AM, Evan Leibovitch <evan(a)telly.org> wrote: > > Karl Auerbach wrote: > > > >> I too do not understand why most of the discussion that occurs on this > >> mailing list come from North America and Europe. > > It is not surprising that so many Americans within ICANN just don't > > grasp what they're dealing with in attempts to empower the global user > > community. What comes naturally to ICANN old-timers (mostly Europeans > > and North Americans) is, literally, quite foreign to the very people > > ICANN is trying to attract. > > > > As Danny time after time after time rails against the perceived lack of > > communications between ALS and RALO, or between ALS and ALS members, he > > shows total ignorance of what could be a cultural deference to > > leadership, or a difficulty to translate complex technical concepts well > > beyond ICANN's official list of languages. There is a significant number > > of people in the global community who find the direct and often personal > > tone of email used by .... well, Europeans and North Americans ... to be > > at worst highly offensive and at least highly intimidating. Many refuse > > to take their first steps into our forums, knowing that if they say the > > "wrong" thing they'll be at the receiving end of a nastygram the likes > > of which are miles beyond the kind of discourse they're ready to have. > > > > There's an assumption in the kinds of posts that Danny, Milton and Robyn > > (and many others, including myself on occasion) have been making, that > > the audience for these messages have thick virtual skins and are > > supposed to appreciate direct (to the point of crude) speech. > > > > That assumption is a mistake, which I believe is directly attributable > > for the limits on the discussion you see. > > > > Not every culture empowers individuals or encourages free thought (let > > alone free speech). > > In some cultures politeness and respect is the norm, and rudeness is > > just shunned as vulgar and/or uneducated. > > Not all NGOs operate in the communications style of what is generally > > known as "civil society" (which more often than not is quite uncivil). > > And ... guess what ... some people, and some cultures, simply > > communicate better face to face, where eye contact and tone of voice > > matter ... just imagine!! > > > > What this means, of course, is that those who bemoan the lack of > > participation actually help to cause it by belittling those who are > > already here. > > They complain that the system is useless as they actively work to _make_ > > it useless. Moaning incessantly about what hasn't been done but > > withholding even faint praise for what has been done. > > "No good deed goes unpunished" and all that... > > > > But it's not just At-Large's own self-destructive elements. There is > > also much .. for lack of a better term .. "cultural imperialism" reeking > > from the way ICANN itself does things. Hasn't it ever bothered anyone > > that, despite all the exotic locales ICANN meets in, it never lifts a > > finger to assist local RALOs to engage in ALS recruitment at these > > meetings? Does it not bother anyone that there's not a single ALS from > > Russia? Are the existing volunteers supposed to burn their own cash to > > make this happen? > > > > The At-Large Community, for all its newly-perceived maturity, is still > > treated as an incapable offspring. ICANN still distrusts the grassroots > > enough to require that one-third of ALAC must be parachuted in. (During > > the ALAC Review there were proposals to *increase* proportion of > > unelected reps, but never did I see any proposals to make ALAC > > all-elected taken seriously.) ALAC has _zero_ discretionary spending of > > its own, every dollar it gets -- whether for travel or outreach or > > research -- is accomplished through a process that's effectively just > > refined begging. When ICANN adds staff on our behalf it doesn't ask what > > *we* need staff to help with, those decisions are made on our behalf. > > And don't even get me started on translation policies. > > > > If you want to dig even deeper, let's not forget the basic difficulties > > presented by ICANN's schizophrenic public-involvement face... if someone > > from the "public" wants to get involved and doesn't know anything about > > ICANN do they enter through At-Large, NCUC, or Kieren's office? The > > lines and reasons that distinguish one from the others are vague and > > confusing, especially to those not yet versed in ICANN culture. For > > anyone with difficulty in English, forget it. > > > > But dealing with ICANN's cultural impediments is a different and > > longer-term issue. Being more welcoming is something we can do for > > ourselves. > > > >> It may well be that other areas and other people are aggregating, > >> discussing, debating, and acting outside of the A-R-A (ALAC-RALO-ALS) > >> mechanism. I would not find that surprising. > > > > I was saddened to read the exchange on "civility" being held over at the > > Ombudsman's blog (https://omblog.icann.org/?p=192) On one side are > > Frank and Kieren arguing that codes of conduct must be more strictly > > applied; on the other Milton, Robyn and Avri assert that arbitrary > > bounds of civil behaviour are unfair and stifle expression. > > > > Neither side has it right. Treating this as a regulatory matter (i.e., > > codes of conduct) only encourages disobedience from those who already > > see themselves as repressed. And those who defend the right to be > > abusive just don't get that their style is severely *narrowing* their > > intended audience. > > > > People need to realize that being civil and positive in ICANN-related > > conversation isn't just a good idea because of codes of conduct. Being > > civil, polite and positive is an act of inclusion and welcoming. Maybe > > it is more difficult to make a polite and assertive ALAC argument, just > > as it's harder to tell a good clean joke. But the effort is not just > > worthwhile, it's critical. > > > > Being "mad as hell [...]" may work personally for some, and I'll agree > > that in some circumstances it may even be the preferred style to enact > > change. But not everyone works that way, or -- more importantly -- is > > willing to work with those who work that way. Is your insistence on a > > certain style worth alienating scores of others who may -- to you -- be > > too meek or slow to act, but each deserve as much of a seat at the table > > as you? > > > > - Evan > > > > Disclaimer: As a white male North American, I am likely not the best > > observer of cultural imperialism on this list. But, as someone who has > > had the fortune to travel extensively (pre-ICANN) and handle > > negotiations in many different locales, I hope my perspective may > be useful. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > At-Large mailing list > > At-Large(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > > > http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large_atlarge-lists.ican… > > > > At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org > > > >_______________________________________________ >At-Large mailing list >At-Large(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org >http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large_atlarge-lists.ican… > >At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org

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