September 2015 - Latingp - lists.icann.org

Correction: Discussion of the Armenian GP request
by Paul Hoffman Oct. 15, 2015

Oct. 15, 2015

[[ As Eric Brunner-Williams pointed out on our first call, I had a pretty serious typo in the message I sent out yesterday. This is the corrected version. ]] It is not clear to me that the Latin GP should addressing the issues that were sent to us by the Armenian GP. Here are a few thoughts on the subject. 1) The Integration Panel believes that the Armenian script is separable from the Latin script, according to Section 3.8.3 of the MSR2. 2) Section B.3.4.2 of the LGR Procedures document says "Finally, in investigating the possible variant relations, Generation Panels should ignore cases where the relation is based exclusively on aspects of visual similarity." 3) Even ignoring the previous two points, the request seems to be for cross-script variants, such as for an Armenian letter that looks like a Latin letter. The "Guidelines for LGR" document indicates that cross-script variants might be created, but gives no hints about why we should do that given that the root zone will consist of labels of a single script (according to Section A.3.1). This feels to me like the Armenian GP's submission is not related to ours, so we should not be commenting on it. --Paul Hoffman

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Presentation for IDN Program session in Dublin
by Dillon, Chris Sept. 30, 2015

Sept. 30, 2015

Dear colleagues, Please find attached a second version of the presentation for the IDN Program session in Dublin. Please give it a critical read, especially your entry in the members list on Slide 6. I was able to implement most of the edits you suggested. Sorry if I have missed any. Unfortunately, I was not able to make changes to the map in Slide 3 which has defeated my best efforts (both with the Smart Edge tool in Paint Shop Pro and my lower-tech light-green felt-tip pen). Despite this, I am for keeping the map, as it gives a good indication of the wide usage of Latin, which is useful as we look for further expertise for the panel. Please get any edits to me by 21:00 UTC tomorrow, Thursday. Regards, Chris. -- Research Associate in Linguistic Computing, Centre for Digital Humanities, UCL, Gower St, London WC1E 6BT Tel +44 20 7679 1599 (int 31599) www.ucl.ac.uk/dis/people/chrisdillon<http://www.ucl.ac.uk/dis/people/chrisdillon>

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Presentation for IDN Program session in Dublin
by Dillon, Chris Sept. 29, 2015

Sept. 29, 2015

Dear colleagues, Please find attached the first draft of a presentation intended for the IDN Program session (10:30 on Monday 21 Sept.) at ICANN Dublin. I had originally hoped to be able to give more than one regional example, but there is a maximum slide limit of seven slides. Meikal Mumin has contributed a slide on Latin script use in Africa for this purpose. If we want to do more than one example, one of the other slides will need to go ... Anyway, as usual, I welcome your corrections, edits and additions, by UTC 21:00 on Thursday 1 October. Incidentally, please send any final edits for the Armenian public comment by UTC 21:00 tomorrow, Tues. 29 September. Regards, Chris. -- Research Associate in Linguistic Computing, Centre for Digital Humanities, UCL, Gower St, London WC1E 6BT Tel +44 20 7679 1599 (int 31599) www.ucl.ac.uk/dis/people/chrisdillon<http://www.ucl.ac.uk/dis/people/chrisdillon>

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Re: [Latingp] Presentation for IDN Program session in Dublin
by Hazem Hezzah Sept. 28, 2015

Sept. 28, 2015

I don't know if Arabic chat language, being a casual language, should be considered as one if the languages using Latin script?. If so, we could add a line at the 3rd slide pointing to it, since non-arabic speakers barely knows about it. Regards, Hazem Hezzah - Sent from my mobile phone - "Dillon, Chris" <c.dillon(a)ucl.ac.uk> wrote: >_______________________________________________ >Latingp mailing list >Latingp(a)icann.org >https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/latingp

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Re: [Latingp] Public comment for your comments
by Paul Hoffman Sept. 25, 2015

Sept. 25, 2015

Of course, you can say what you want, but it is possibly confusing for you to say "Chris Dillon. Latin Generation Panel" rather than just "Chris Dillon". The Latin Generation Panel still does not know whether the Integration Panel believes that there can possibly be homoglyphs across separable scripts, so putting "Latin Generation Panel" at the end of your letter may give the impression that we as a panel agree with your assertion about the homoglyph. Just to be clear: I truly don't know whether there can be homoglyphs across separable scripts, or whether Armenian and Latin are actually separable. Neither is clear to me from what we have heard so far from the Integration Panel, but I suspect we'll know much more after asking them. From the many written documents we have, I suspect that the answer to these questions are for the Integration Panel to make, not each individual Generation Panel. --Paul Hoffman

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Sound recording of email of Tuesday 22nd's meeting
by Dillon, Chris Sept. 24, 2015

Sept. 24, 2015

Dear colleagues, The sound file of our recent meeting is now in the wiki for download, for those of you who couldn't make it: https://community.icann.org/display/croscomlgrprocedure/22+September+2015 It is not too large, about 5.5MB. Regards, Chris. -- Research Associate in Linguistic Computing, Centre for Digital Humanities, UCL, Gower St, London WC1E 6BT Tel +44 20 7679 1599 (int 31599) www.ucl.ac.uk/dis/people/chrisdillon<http://www.ucl.ac.uk/dis/people/chrisdillon>

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Public comment for your comments
by Dillon, Chris Sept. 24, 2015

Sept. 24, 2015

Dear colleagues, The deadline for comments on the Armenian proposal (30 Sept.) is closer than one would think because of the weekend. I am intending to submit a simple public comment, not necessarily representative of the LGP. Please see it below. I have not given a list of visually similar characters, although the following letters not in the proposal may also be an issue: Lower case 1. ա (AYB) "w'' in Latin Upper case 1. Ձ (JA) to number 2 2. Տ (TYOWN) to S This is because I think the key thing is the homoglyph issue, rather than visual similarity. I have also not used the word "separable" as there could be a debate about whether one homoglyph means unseparable scripts. I would be grateful for your help in improving it. Regards, Chris. == Dear colleagues, I would like to congratulate the Armenian Panel on its work in the production of the Armenian proposal. Apart from various cases where Armenian letters are visually similar to Latin letters, I believe there is one homoglyph: օ U+0585 Armenian small letter OH and o U+006F Latin small letter O Regards, Chris Dillon. Latin Generation Panel -- Research Associate in Linguistic Computing, Centre for Digital Humanities, UCL, Gower St, London WC1E 6BT Tel +44 20 7679 1599 (int 31599) www.ucl.ac.uk/dis/people/chrisdillon<http://www.ucl.ac.uk/dis/people/chrisdillon>

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Today's meeting
by Dillon, Chris Sept. 23, 2015

Sept. 23, 2015

Dear colleagues, I've collected a few useful things together in preparation for today's meeting at UTC 17:00. This site helps with times: http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com<http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/> I've put the agenda here: https://community.icann.org/display/croscomlgrprocedure/22+September+2015 with links to some useful documents. Let me know if you would like to add items. How to connect: Link to Adobe Connect: http://icann.adobeconnect.com/lgr/ *Upon logging into Adobe Connect, a pop up window will provide you the option to Dial Out to your Phone. Enter your Phone Number* (Remember to change the Country Code if needed). After joining the call, as a courtesy to others and the presenters, please MUTE your phone. This can be done by selecting *6 on your keypad. To UNMUTE select *6 again. Looking forward to speaking later, Chris. == Research Associate in Linguistic Computing, Centre for Digital Humanities, UCL, Gower St, London WC1E 6BT Tel +44 20 7679 1599 (int 31599) www.ucl.ac.uk/dis/people/chrisdillon

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Terminology
by Dillon, Chris Sept. 23, 2015

Sept. 23, 2015

Dear colleagues, Thank you for yesterday's meeting, which was well attended. For those not there, a link to a recording of the meeting will be made available in the near future. I have started a new page on the wiki on terminology: https://community.icann.org/display/croscomlgrprocedure/LGP+terminology I would like to suggest that there is at least one Homoglyph between the Armenian and Latin scripts, and that the Armenian script is not Separable. That would mean we do need to consider confusability (presumably visual similarity, rather than other forms of confusability). Regards, Chris. -- Research Associate in Linguistic Computing, Centre for Digital Humanities, UCL, Gower St, London WC1E 6BT Tel +44 20 7679 1599 (int 31599) www.ucl.ac.uk/dis/people/chrisdillon<http://www.ucl.ac.uk/dis/people/chrisdillon>

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Discussion of the Armenian GP request
by Paul Hoffman Sept. 21, 2015

Sept. 21, 2015

It is not clear to me that the Latin GP should addressing the issues that were sent to us by the Armenian GP. Here are a few thoughts on the subject. 1) The Integration Panel believes that the Armenian script is from the Latin script, according to Section 3.8.3 of the MSR2. 2) Section B.3.4.2 of the LGR Procedures document says "Finally, in investigating the possible variant relations, Generation Panels should ignore cases where the relation is based exclusively on aspects of visual similarity." 3) Even ignoring the previous two points, the request seems to be for cross-script variants, such as for an Armenian letter that looks like a Latin letter. The "Guidelines for LGR" document indicates that cross-script variants might be created, but gives no hints about why we should do that given that the root zone will consist of labels of a single script (according to Section A.3.1). This feels to me like the Armenian GP's submission is not related to ours, so we should not be commenting on it. --Paul Hoffman

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