January 2018 - Latingp - lists.icann.org

Latin GP meeting
by Pitinan Kooarmornpatana Jan. 28, 2018

Jan. 28, 2018

Dear Latin GP Members, This is a gentle reminder for the Latin GP meeting on 23 January 2018 16:00 UTC Please find the agenda suggested by the Chair below: __________________________________________ AGENDA for the GP call on 23rd of January 2018, 16:00UTC 1. Roll call 2. Agenda for F2F meeting in Brussels 3. Short report from Repertoire Group 4. Short report from Variant group 5. Short report from Drafting Team 6. AOB ______________________________________________ Second Face-to-Face Meeting of the Latin GP Brussels, Belgium 29 - 31 January 2018 Day 1 - 29 January 2018 0900 - 1030 Welcome and Introductions Review of Current Status of Latin GP * Current Plan of Work * Review of Status by Repertoire WG * Review of Status by Variants WG All Mirjana Tasic Mats Dufberg Dennis Tan Tanaka 1030 - 1050 Tea and Coffee Break 1050 - 1230 Repertoire Discussion 1 * Open Issues Mats Dufberg 1230 - 1400 Lunch Break 1400 - 1530 Repertoire Discussion 2 * Final Draft of Repertoire Table * Conclusions and Next Steps Mats Dufberg 1530 - 1550 Tea and Coffee Break 1550 - 1730 Variants Discussion 1 * Latin * Cyrillic * Armenian * Greek Dennis Tan Tanaka Day 2 - 30 January 2018 0900 - 1030 Variant Discussion 2 * Final Draft of Variant Tables * Conclusions and Next Steps Dennis Tan Tanaka 1030 - 1050 Tea and Coffee Break 1050 - 1230 Variant Discussion 3 * Similarity of Code Points * Latin * Armenian, Cyrillic and Greek Dennis Tan Tanaka 1230 - 1400 Lunch Break 1400 - 1530 Review of Current Latin LGR Proposal Draft * Introduction sections including scope of work, principles and methodology of analysis * Repertoire section Drafting Team? 1530 - 1550 Tea and Coffee Break 1550 - 1730 Review of Current Latin LGR Proposal Draft * Variant section * WLE section * References and Appendices Drafting Team? Day 3 - 31 January 2018 0900 - 1030 LGR XML Tool Sarmad Hussain 1030 - 1050 Tea and Coffee Break 1050 - 1230 Conclusion and Next Steps Mirjana Tasic 1230 - 1400 Lunch Break 1400 - 1530 1530 - 1550 Tea and Coffee Break 1550 - 1730 Regards, Pitinan How to connect: Link to Adobe Connect: https://participate.icann.org/idn/ *Upon logging into Adobe Connect, a pop up window will provide you the option to Dial Out to your Phone. Enter your Phone Number* (Remember to change the Country Code if needed). After joining the call, as a courtesy to others and the presenters, please MUTE your phone. This can be done by selecting *6 on your keypad. To UNMUTE select *6 again. If you are Unable to log into Adobe Connect and can only join via phone: https://www.myrcplus.com/cnums.asp?bwebid=8369444&ppc=1064158692&num=1-719-…<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.myrcplus.com_cnums…> Participant Passcode: 1064158692

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Re: [Latingp] Cross-script analysis Armenian and Greek, and overview slides
by Tan Tanaka, Dennis Jan. 26, 2018

Jan. 26, 2018

Bill, Mats Thanks for your feedback. I have carefully reviewed your input, so let me address each one of your points: 1. “I really do not understand what bullet 1 in slide 4 means. Please elaborate.” And “I am not clear what you are trying to say in point 1.”, this referring to Slide 4 as well. * It refers to the principle by which this panel will determine variants sets for the Latin script, that is within-script variants. Specifically, “sufficiently universal” means that whether certain characters are used as equivalents across an important majority of the languages using the Latin script. * We received positive feedback from IP. Verbatim “The actual guiding principle (contained in the second paragraph of the document) appears to cover the important considerations and will likely serve the GP well in arriving at at [sic] list of proposed candidate variants” * Both of you should be aware of this since you (Bill) presented and explained it during ICANN Abu Dhabi. Please review the panel presentation on slide 36. 2. “I do not believe that we actually agreed that only exact homoglyphs would be considered variants. I know that this is *your* view. I just don't think is was anything resembling a consensus of the team. And conversations with the Integration Panel have made clear that it is not a mandate from them.” * These statements are inaccurate. * We agreed on the principles and applied it to the cross-script analysis of Latin-Cyrillic, which is now complete. * Not my view, but the requirement by which the IP expects this GP to do its work. On this, IP has consistently reminded this GP “the kinds of variants to be defined in the Root Zone LGR are limited to homoglyphs, which are characters with essentially identical appearance by design, instead of merely similar appearance.” (IP Feedback to Latin GP, 22 March 2017). And “In the context of the Root Zone, the Procedure is quite clear in that it considers simple similarity of appearance to be outside the scope of the Root Zone LGR.” (IP Feedback to Latin GP, 18 October 2017). Best, Dennis From: Mats Dufberg <mats.dufberg(a)iis.se> Date: Friday, January 26, 2018 at 4:14 AM To: Dennis Tan Tanaka <dtantanaka(a)verisign.com> Cc: Bill Jouris <bill.jouris(a)insidethestack.com>, "latingp(a)icann.org" <latingp(a)icann.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Latingp] Cross-script analysis Armenian and Greek, and overview slides Dennis, I have to second Bill. I really do not understand what bullet 1 in slide 4 means. Please elaborate. And when it comes to variants, I also question the requirement. That requirement is not used for Chinese variants. Mats --- Mats Dufberg DNS Specialist, IIS Mobile: +46 73 065 3899 https://www.iis.se/en/ From: Latingp <latingp-bounces(a)icann.org> on behalf of Bill Jouris <bill.jouris(a)insidethestack.com> Reply-To: Bill Jouris <bill.jouris(a)insidethestack.com> Date: Thursday 25 January 2018 at 23:57 To: "Tan Tanaka, Dennis via Latingp" <latingp(a)icann.org> Subject: Re: [Latingp] Cross-script analysis Armenian and Greek, and overview slides Hi Daniel, In the Armenian/Latin table, line 39 (Armenian Letter Keh) by BJ+ is a typo on my part. Should be BJ- of course. Or BJ#, since there is no Latin equivalent given. Sorry I have a couple questions on Slide 4: 1) I am not clear what you are trying to say in point 1. 2) I do not believe that we actually agreed that only exact homoglyphs would be considered variants. I know that this is *your* view. I just don't think is was anything resembling a consensus of the team. And conversations with the Integration Panel have made clear that it is not a mandate from them. Bill Jouris Inside Products bill.jouris(a)insidethestack.com 831-659-8360 925-855-9512 (direct) From: "Tan Tanaka, Dennis via Latingp" <latingp(a)icann.org> To: "Tan Tanaka, Dennis via Latingp" <latingp(a)icann.org> Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2018 2:32 PM Subject: [Latingp] Cross-script analysis Armenian and Greek, and overview slides Dear Latin GP variant team members, Please find enclosed consolidated files for cross-script analysis for Armenian and Greek. We will be using these files to finalize the work during our workshop. Also, please review the slides and let me know if you have any feedback. Thank you, Dennis _______________________________________________ Latingp mailing list Latingp(a)icann.org<mailto:Latingp@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/latingp

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Cross-script analysis Armenian and Greek, and overview slides
by Tan Tanaka, Dennis Jan. 26, 2018

Jan. 26, 2018

Dear Latin GP variant team members, Please find enclosed consolidated files for cross-script analysis for Armenian and Greek. We will be using these files to finalize the work during our workshop. Also, please review the slides and let me know if you have any feedback. Thank you, Dennis

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[lgr] FW: ICANN News Alert -- Proposal for Korean Root Zone‬ Label Generation Rules
by Sarmad Hussain Jan. 26, 2018

Jan. 26, 2018

Dear All, We are pleased to announce that the Korean Generation Panel has finalized its proposal, which has been released for public comment. See details at https://www.icann.org/public-comments/korean-lgr-2018-01-25-en. We look forward to your comments on the proposal. Regards, Sarmad News Alert https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2018-01-25-en[icann.org]<https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2018-01-25-en%5bicann.org%5d> ________________________________ Proposal for Korean Root Zone Label Generation Rules 25 January 2018 Open Date: 25 January 2018 Close Date: 17 March 2018 Originating Organization: Global Domains Division Categories/Tags: Top-Level Domains Brief Overview: The Korean community has formed the Korean Generation Panel (GP), which in turn has developed a Proposal for Korean Script Root Zone Label Generation Rules (Proposal[icann.org]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__icann.org_en_system_fi…> [XML, 547 KB] and Proposal Documentation[icann.org]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__icann.org_en_system_fi…> [PDF, 4.25 MB]). As per the LGR Procedure[icann.org]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__icann.org_en_system_fi…> [PDF, 772 KB], this proposal is being posted for public comments to allow those who have not participated in the Korean GP to make their views known to the GP. Based on the feedback, the Korean GP will finalize the proposal for submission for integration into the Label Generation Rules for the Root Zone. Link: https://www.icann.org/public-comments/korean-lgr-2018-01-25-en[icann.org]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__icann.org_public-2Dcom…> _______________________________________________ lgr mailing list lgr(a)icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/lgr

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Summary of Latin GP on 23 January 2018
by Pitinan Kooarmornpatana Jan. 23, 2018

Jan. 23, 2018

Dear Latin GP members, Please find attached the summary of the meeting of Latin GP on 23 January 2018. Please let us know if you would like to suggest any edits or additions. Action Items S. No. Action Items Owner 1 Update the agenda for the F2F meeting in Brussels MT 2 Update the reference numbers in the repertoire table SH 3 Prepare the cross-script variant analysis sheet for discussion during the F2F meeting DT This summary and the previous meeting notes are posted at the Latin GP wiki page at https://community.icann.org/display/croscomlgrprocedure/Latin+GP[community.…<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_di…> We have received a suggestion on the previous meeting note on 9 January 2018, the updated version are also posted at the Wiki page. Regards, Pitinan

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Re: [Latingp] LatinLanguages-EGIDS-1-5-Final.xlsx - Invitation to edit
by Mats Dufberg Jan. 22, 2018

Jan. 22, 2018

Mirjana, In the spread sheet there are four tabs, all containing languages. How are the four tabs meant to be used? Mats --- Mats Dufberg DNS Specialist, IIS Mobile: +46 73 065 3899 https://www.iis.se/en/ From: "Mirjana Tasic (via Google Sheets)" <tasmirjana(a)gmail.com> Reply-To: Mirjana Tasic <tasmirjana(a)gmail.com> Date: Monday 22 January 2018 at 12:01 To: Mats Dufberg <mats.dufberg(a)iis.se> Cc: "abdeslam.nasri(a)gmail.com" <abdeslam.nasri(a)gmail.com>, "ahmedbakhat(a)gmail.com" <ahmedbakhat(a)gmail.com>, "amadoucheikhly(a)gmail.com" <amadoucheikhly(a)gmail.com>, "bakiaubauro(a)gmail.com" <bakiaubauro(a)gmail.com>, "bill.jouris(a)gmail.com" <bill.jouris(a)gmail.com>, "dt9176(a)gmail.com" <dt9176(a)gmail.com>, "elvin.prasad.fj(a)gmail.com" <elvin.prasad.fj(a)gmail.com>, "fiammettacaccavale(a)yahoo.it" <fiammettacaccavale(a)yahoo.it>, "hhezzah.las(a)gmail.com" <hhezzah.las(a)gmail.com>, "hhezzah(a)gmail.com" <hhezzah(a)gmail.com>, "meikal(a)mumin.de" <meikal(a)mumin.de>, "Michael.Bauland(a)knipp.de" <Michael.Bauland(a)knipp.de>, "nkurunziza2010(a)gmail.com" <nkurunziza2010(a)gmail.com>, "richof77(a)gmail.com" <richof77(a)gmail.com>, "sarmad.hussain(a)icann.org" <sarmad.hussain(a)icann.org>, "seun.ojedeji(a)gmail.com" <seun.ojedeji(a)gmail.com>, "tarik.merghani(a)gmail.com" <tarik.merghani(a)gmail.com>, "tasmirjana(a)gmail.com" <tasmirjana(a)gmail.com>, "vningakun(a)upng.ac.pg" <vningakun(a)upng.ac.pg>, "musatesa(a)gmail.com" <musatesa(a)gmail.com>, "pitinan.koo(a)icann.org" <pitinan.koo(a)icann.org> Subject: LatinLanguages-EGIDS-1-5-Final.xlsx - Invitation to edit Mirjana Tasic<mailto:tasmirjana@gmail.com> has invited you to edit the following spreadsheet: [https://ssl.gstatic.com/docs/documents/share/images/services/spreadsheet-4.…] LatinLanguages-EGIDS-1-5-Final.xlsx<https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pnHjeQeJ_ETr10f33KIJLNKo6FUlc4TJ8DQ…> [Sender's profile photo]Dear GP member, here is the proposal of the table for Apendix A of the final report. In this table all languages processed to create our repertoire are listed. Regards Mirjana Open in Sheets<https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pnHjeQeJ_ETr10f33KIJLNKo6FUlc4TJ8DQ…> Google Sheets: Create and edit spreadsheets online. Google Inc. 1600 Amphitheatre Parkway, Mountain View, CA 94043, USA You have received this email because someone shared a spreadsheet with you from Google Sheets. [Logo for Google Sheets]<https://drive.google.com/>

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Agenda for the call on 23rd of January, 2018
by Mirjana Tasić Jan. 22, 2018

Jan. 22, 2018

Dear GP members. Please find enclosed the proposal of Agenda for our next telephone conference. After agenda for the call you could find in this mail also the proposal for the Agenda for F2F meeting in Brussels. Regards Mirjana __________________________________________ AGENDA for the GP call on 23rd of January 2018, 16:00UTC 1. Roll call 2. Agenda for F2F meeting in Brussels 3. Short report from Repertoire Group 4. Short report from Variant group 5. Short report from Drafting Team 6. AOB ______________________________________________ Second Face-to-Face Meeting of the Latin GP Brussels, Belgium 29 - 31 January 2018 Day 1 - 29 January 2018 0900 – 1030 Welcome and Introductions Review of Current Status of Latin GP * Current Plan of Work * Review of Status by Repertoire WG * Review of Status by Variants WG All Mirjana Tasic Mats Dufberg Dennis Tan Tanaka 1030 – 1050 Tea and Coffee Break 1050 – 1230 Repertoire Discussion 1 * Open Issues Mats Dufberg 1230 – 1400 Lunch Break 1400 – 1530 Repertoire Discussion 2 * Final Draft of Repertoire Table * Conclusions and Next Steps Mats Dufberg 1530 – 1550 Tea and Coffee Break 1550 – 1730 Variants Discussion 1 * Latin * Cyrillic * Armenian * Greek Dennis Tan Tanaka Day 2 - 30 January 2018 0900 – 1030 Variant Discussion 2 * Final Draft of Variant Tables * Conclusions and Next Steps Dennis Tan Tanaka 1030 – 1050 Tea and Coffee Break 1050 – 1230 Variant Discussion 3 * Similarity of Code Points * Latin * Armenian, Cyrillic and Greek Dennis Tan Tanaka 1230 – 1400 Lunch Break 1400 – 1530 Review of Current Latin LGR Proposal Draft * Introduction sections including scope of work, principles and methodology of analysis * Repertoire section Drafting Team? 1530 – 1550 Tea and Coffee Break 1550 – 1730 Review of Current Latin LGR Proposal Draft * Variant section * WLE section * References and Appendices Drafting Team? Day 3 - 31 January 2018 0900 – 1030 LGR XML Tool Sarmad Hussain 1030 – 1050 Tea and Coffee Break 1050 – 1230 Conclusion and Next Steps Mirjana Tasic 1230 – 1400 Lunch Break 1400 – 1530 1530 – 1550 Tea and Coffee Break 1550 – 1730

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Summary of Latin GP on 9 January 2018
by Pitinan Kooarmornpatana Jan. 21, 2018

Jan. 21, 2018

Dear Latin GP members, Please find attached the summary of the meeting of Latin GP on 9 January 2018. Please let us know if you would like to suggest any edits or additions. Action Items S. No. Action Items Owner 1 Summarize the instruction for reducing the number of references and inform the GP members. MD 2 Update the MSR-3 letter and sent to Sarmad for forwarding to the IP MJ 3 Review Mats' analysis on the code point google sheet and give feedback All This summary and the previous meeting notes are also posted at the Latin GP wiki page at https://community.icann.org/display/croscomlgrprocedure/Latin+GP[community.…<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_di…> Regards, Pitinan

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Re: [Latingp] New version of Proposal for inclusion Latin script letters in next version of MSR
by Meikal Mumin Jan. 19, 2018

Jan. 19, 2018

Dear all, I see numerous inconsistencies rather than consistencies in those choices made, and holding on to such choices in the end serves to reinforce pre-existing biases without any supporting data (as Mats pointed out), rather than improving the safety of the zone. So let's argue against it strongly as a GP and ask for a change of policy, if a majority of the GP is in favor! Processes were made to adopt to reality, not the other way around. I'm already working on some text regarding these issues for the proposal. Please feel free to chime in. Best, Meikal On 19 January 2018 at 17:59, Bill Jouris <bill.jouris(a)insidethestack.com> wrote: > Hi Meikal, > > I'd be fine with including something along these lines in the main text, > if the panel is OK with that. What I sent out needs serious editing, but > it's a start. > > My best guess (and it is only a guess) on why is that the IP decided that, > since they were excluding the click symbols that are homoglyphs of > punctuation marks, consistency would indicate that they exclude also those > click symbols which are not. On the other hand, that would have meant > excluding U0294 (ʔ), which would have to be considered at least a near > homoglyph of a question mark (?). But as Mats notes they have accepted > that. So perhaps not. > > Bill Jouris > Inside Products > bill.jouris(a)insidethestack.com > 831-659-8360 > 925-855-9512 (direct) > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Meikal Mumin <meikal.mumin(a)uni-koeln.de> > *To:* Bill Jouris <bill.jouris(a)insidethestack.com> > *Cc:* Latin GP <latingp(a)icann.org> > *Sent:* Friday, January 19, 2018 6:40 AM > > *Subject:* Re: [Latingp] New version of Proposal for inclusion Latin > script letters in next version of MSR > > Dear colleagues, > > I was trying to look for a specific reason why those code points > representing click sounds have been excluded. Looking at the text of MSR-3, > I was able to find only the following line of argumentation on page 23: > > "In general, where code points are homoglyphs or near homoglyphs of code > points that are not PVALID, > usually punctuation characters, the Integration Panel has not included > such code points in the MSR. > In particular, the following code points are highly confusable with or > outright homoglyphs of code > points, such as common punctuation characters like apostrophe or > exclamation mark, that are not > PVALID in IDNA2008 or excluded for other reasons:" > > I don't see however how the main argument that the code points we > suggested are homogylphs or near homogylphs of such characters they > consider punctuation characters. That argument may be valid in the case of > U01C3 or U0242, but not the three code points we suggested. I think that > this stance taken by IP is overly conservative and reinforces certain > systemic biases in the DNS as part of the internet and that the entire > point of our task is precisely to put and end to such biases and therefore > I would like to raise this issue again. > > I would suggest we submit a comment asking what their specific rationale > for excluding these three code points is, and that clearly U01C2 for > example is NOT a homogylph or near homoglyph of any punctuation > character, just as U01C0 and U01C1. Otherwise, I would like to argue that > following their approach 0069 (i.e. i) as well as any "near homoglyph" of > it is a near homogylph of the exclamation mark and should be excluded > equally. > > Also, I have started working on the proposal, Bill, and I would like to > add your text to it and I don't think it should be an appendix. > > Best, > > Meikal > > On 19 January 2018 at 00:50, Bill Jouris <bill.jouris(a)insidethestack.com> > wrote: > > Hello all, > > Earlier this week, I had been drafting a possible Appendix D for our final > report, to discuss the overall issue of clicks and stops. (And it is a > VERY rough draft. Note, for example, that the various RFCs and other > documents are not yet identified.) > > With this reply from the IP, it seems like the question may be better > addressed in comments on MSR-3. But I have attached what I had for those > who may be interested. > > Bill Jouris > Inside Products > bill.jouris(a)insidethestack.com > 831-659-8360 > 925-855-9512 (direct) > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Sarmad Hussain <sarmad.hussain(a)icann.org> > *To:* Mirjana Tasić <Mirjana.Tasic(a)rnids.rs>; Latin GP <latingp(a)icann.org> > > *Cc:* "integrationpanel(a)icann.org" <integrationpanel(a)icann.org> > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 17, 2018 10:00 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Latingp] New version of Proposal for inclusion Latin > script letters in next version of MSR > > Dear Mirjana, Latin GP members, > > Please find below the message from the Integration Panel. > > Regards, > Sarmad > > ========= > > The IP is pleased to acknowledge the input from the Chinese, Japanese and > Latin GPs to the MSR-3 update of the Maximal Starting Repertoire. MSR-3 has > just been released for public comment > <https://www.icann.org/public-comments/msr-3-2018-01-17-en> and contains > an updated listing of code points as well as the rationale for including or > excluding particular code points. Based on the input received, the IP has > extended the list of source sets for the Han ideographs with the net effect > of adding three code points. The IP has added three Latin code points > because new evidence provided invalidated the original rationale for their > exclusion. An additional three Latin code points representing clicks were > not included because the original rationale for their exclusion remains > valid. For details see the overview document of MSR-3. > > Integration Panel > > > 1. MSR-3 (HTML > <https://www.icann.org/sites/default/files/packages/lgr/msr/msr-3-wle-rules-…> > , XML > <https://www.icann.org/sites/default/files/packages/lgr/msr/msr-3-wle-rules-…> > ) > 2. MSR-3-Annotated-Hangul-Tables > <https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/msr-3-hangul-15jan18-en.pdf> > [PDF, 1.12 MB] > 3. MSR-3-Annotated-Han-Tables > <https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/msr-3-han-15jan18-en.pdf> [ > PDF, 39 MB] > 4. MSR-3-Annotated-non-CJK-Tables > <https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/msr-3-non-cjk-15jan18-en.pdf> > [PDF, 2.16 MB] > 5. MSR-3-Overview and Rationale > <https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/msr-3-overview-15jan18-en.pdf> [PDF, > 1.1 MB] > > > *From:* Mirjana Tasić [mailto:Mirjana.Tasic@rnids.rs ] > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 09, 2018 11:07 PM > *To:* Sarmad Hussain <sarmad.hussain(a)icann.org> > *Cc:* Latin GP <latingp(a)icann.org> > *Subject:* [Ext] New version of Proposal for inclusion Latin script > letters in next version of MSR > > Dear Sarmad, > > After further investigation of Latin Repertoire, Latin GP has found one > additional code point which is not included in our previous proposal for > inclusion in the new version of MSR. > > Please find enclosed the new version of our Proposal for inclusion Latin > script letters in the next version of MSR. > > Regards Mirjana > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Latingp mailing list > Latingp(a)icann.org > https://mm.icann.org/mailman/ listinfo/latingp > <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/latingp> > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Latingp mailing list > Latingp(a)icann.org > https://mm.icann.org/mailman/ listinfo/latingp > <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/latingp> > > > > >

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New version of Proposal for inclusion Latin script letters in next version of MSR
by Mirjana Tasić Jan. 19, 2018

Jan. 19, 2018

Dear Sarmad, After further investigation of Latin Repertoire, Latin GP has found one additional code point which is not included in our previous proposal for inclusion in the new version of MSR. Please find enclosed the new version of our Proposal for inclusion Latin script letters in the next version of MSR. Regards Mirjana

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