July 2021 - Latingp - lists.icann.org

Agenda for the Latin GP meeting on 15 July 2021, 16:00UTC
by Mirjana Tasić July 15, 2021

July 15, 2021

Dear GP members, Here is the Agenda for the next call. Regards Mirjana ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Agenda for the Latin GP meeting on 15 July 2021, 16:00UTC 1. Reviewing each document with feedback incorporated. * Main Report - 6.4.2.1 i 6.4.2.2 (IDNA2003 Compatibility: Review the revised text by Bill) * Main Report – 6.5 (Transitivity: Review the IP’s suggested transitivity description in paragraph 2 and 3) * Main Report – 6.6 (Additional Discussion on Variants: Review text on Fula by Bill) * Main report - 6.7 (Complete Variant Sets: Review Table 17 and Mats suggestions) * Main report – 7 (WLE and Contextual rules: Review the added pointer to ‘action’ description) * Appendix D.5 (IDNA2003 Compatibility: Review the additional introduction paragraph) * Appendix D.8 (Caron Above: Review the last paragraph explaining why the t,l,d with Caron are not variant with t,l,d apostrophe) * Appendix D.9 (Cross-Script Variant: Review the introduction paragraph to explain that the new code points are already taken into account of variant analysis ) Note: Appendix D.2 and D.4 are not listed here as there is no further feedback on them. Also Pitinan and me, we accepted all editorial changes which need not to be discussed. 1. Discussion about Greek proposal

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Latin GP Meeting
by Pitinan Kooarmornpatana July 15, 2021

July 15, 2021

Dear Latin GP This is a gentle reminder for the Latin GP call on Thursday 15 July 2021 at 16:00UTC. Join Zoom Meeting https://icann.zoom.us/j/98435828760 Meeting ID: 984 3582 8760 Passcode: 1F$^iEkt$# Agenda 1. Reviewing each document with feedback incorporated. * The main document (proposal-latin-lgr-xxJun21-v7-redline.docx [1drv.ms]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/1drv.ms/w/s!AoE6DtesaqpIiScba0zxJ0RrcIZN…>) * Appendix B - Table of Languages Used to Develop Latin Script Repertoire-redline.docx [1drv.ms]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/1drv.ms/w/s!AoE6DtesaqpIiSzZHDh05ufwYjHJ…> * Appendix C - Repertoire Table Grouped by Glyph-redline.docx [1drv.ms]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/1drv.ms/w/s!AoE6DtesaqpIiS0wGrr7PSSf7F3R…> * Appendix D - Variants Analysis-redline.docx [1drv.ms]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/1drv.ms/w/s!AoE6DtesaqpIiS-wpnFI8HT47vl4…> * Appendix D.1 - Shape of Base Characters-redline.docx [1drv.ms]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/1drv.ms/w/s!AoE6DtesaqpIiTFGLJNGaR941bcH…> * Appendix D.3 - Shape of Diacritics-redline.docx [1drv.ms]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/1drv.ms/w/s!AoE6DtesaqpIiTL-0-OgCAlhuIdM…> * Appendix D.5 - IDNA 2003 Compatibility-redline.docx [1drv.ms]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/1drv.ms/w/s!AoE6DtesaqpIiTO8AMvf8ujjdmwC…> * Appendix D.6 - Underlining Evaluation Process-redline.docx [1drv.ms]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/1drv.ms/w/s!AoE6DtesaqpIiTQER3keFHhngmmQ…> * Appendix D.7 - Generic Glyphs-redline.docx [1drv.ms]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/1drv.ms/w/s!AoE6DtesaqpIiTXfkRDCfWOFFbJ7…> * Appendix D.8 - Caron Above-redline.docx [1drv.ms]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/1drv.ms/w/s!AoE6DtesaqpIiTZrRgs3gbSSjxAR…> * Appendix D.9 - Cross-script Variants-redline.docx [1drv.ms]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/1drv.ms/w/s!AoE6DtesaqpIiThkqrN3Bfg8u1c4…> * Appendix E - Visually Confusable Glyphs-redline.docx [1drv.ms]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/1drv.ms/w/s!AoE6DtesaqpIiTnCFUfGCoUSV0OO…> Note: Appendix D.2 and D.4 are not listed here as there is no further feedback on them. Regards, Pitinan

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Latin GP weekly meeting
by Pitinan Kooarmornpatana July 8, 2021

July 8, 2021

*starting now* Dear Latin GP This is a gentle reminder for the Latin GP call on Thursday 8 July 2021 at 16:00UTC. Join Zoom Meeting https://icann.zoom.us/j/98435828760 Meeting ID: 984 3582 8760 Passcode: 1F$^iEkt$# Regards, Pitinan

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Latin GP weekly meeting
by Pitinan Kooarmornpatana July 7, 2021

July 7, 2021

Dear Latin GP This is a gentle reminder for the Latin GP call on Thursday 8 July 2021 at 16:00UTC. Join Zoom Meeting https://icann.zoom.us/j/98435828760 Meeting ID: 984 3582 8760 Passcode: 1F$^iEkt$# Regards, Pitinan

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Re: [Latingp] Regarding the Greek LGR
by Tan Tanaka, Dennis July 1, 2021

July 1, 2021

On point 3 - Maybe, but only Latin GP is having the benefit of the other two or three (if we include Armenian) LGRs being completed before ours. So while we "could" incorporate all complete sets (i.e. closure due to transitivity) this is only possible because we are still in progress and we can see what others have done. The other proposals and GPs have closed and to my knowledge they will not reconvene to "complete" the transitivity cases. This is the Integration Panel's job which will be reflected in the merged LGR once we deliver the Latin script LGR. Dennis On 6/30/21, 12:03 PM, "Latingp on behalf of Mats Dufberg via Latingp" <latingp-bounces(a)icann.org on behalf of latingp(a)icann.org> wrote: Caution: This email originated from outside the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. There are several aspects of variants. 1. If the members of a variant set (or pair) are clearly distinct, then the support for creating the variant relation must be solid, or else the fact will be questioned over and over again, and that will lower the acceptance of the rules. In this case the proposed or "imported" set is made of members that can easily confused. 2. If the members of a set are used as distinct characters in a language, then the acceptance will also be lower. This is not unrelated to the bullet above. I think it is likely that the members are not used as distinct characters in any language. 3. For the reader or reviewer of our report it is better if all in-script variant sets are included, even if the set is due to transitivity from Greek or some other script. This is too complex to expect the reader to also read the other reports. 4. Being consistent is always a good feature. Else we risk focus on wrong aspects of the report. Mats -- --- Mats Dufberg mats.dufberg(a)internetstiftelsen.se Technical Expert Internetstiftelsen (The Swedish Internet Foundation) Mobile: +46 73 065 3899 https://secure-web.cisco.com/1Wvk6eqCo-dQ7zg7Sb87u8nS-tCwWsoi-Bk5qyrdCLkpRD… On 30/06/2021, 08:00, "Latingp on behalf of Michael Bauland via Latingp" <latingp-bounces(a)icann.org on behalf of latingp(a)icann.org> wrote: Hello Bill, thank you very much for summarising the facts. On 29.06.2021 21:10, Bill Jouris via Latingp wrote: > > Transitivity means that all of the following pairs are Latin in-script > variants: > ć / ċ i / í ń / ṅ ó / ȯ ẃ / ẇ ź / ż > > But not: > é / ė > > Does anyone really and truly want to get up in public and argue that > having this /single/ omission is intellectually defensible? Honestly, yes I do, really and truly. ;-) All of those variants are not ours (well technically we inherit them and therefore they become ours, but we are not in favour of them) and there is no need to argue for having any of those. We do not consider them to be variants and for that reason I do not think it's a good idea to add some other relation that we do not consider to be variants. On the contrary, I would find it difficult to argue in favour of adding them ourselves: "We added those in-script variants, because in the Greek Script some other characters are variants." In my point of view, we should keep the Greek influence on our LGR as small as possible. If some variants get introduced due to transitivity, well, then that's unfortunate, but not really avoidable. Adding those other variants ourselves however, would unnecessarily increase that influence. Nevertheless, as stated last week, this is my personal opinion and I'm more than happy to discuss this in our next call. Cheers, Michael -- ____________________________________________________________________ | | | knipp | Knipp Medien und Kommunikation GmbH ------- Technologiepark Martin-Schmeisser-Weg 9 44227 Dortmund Germany Dipl.-Informatiker Fon: +49 231 9703-0 Fax: +49 231 9703-200 Dr. Michael Bauland SIP: Michael.Bauland(a)knipp.de Software Development E-mail: Michael.Bauland(a)knipp.de Register Court: Amtsgericht Dortmund, HRB 13728 Chief Executive Officers: Dietmar Knipp, Elmar Knipp _______________________________________________ Latingp mailing list Latingp(a)icann.org https://secure-web.cisco.com/1HBWnx4UNjNXN9dbhoI2UTX7KZsi97Bo95EmiFbq50vgkg… _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://secure-web.cisco.com/1UZuV65l0qhDwI663YO06GIjN6TxAmUNM0g13DNb3xhmGd…) and the website Terms of Service (https://secure-web.cisco.com/1zR0FdbodQYgPSU2F8w3sW_br6aLia37p6OZYt6ayQ7Y1f… You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ Latingp mailing list Latingp(a)icann.org https://secure-web.cisco.com/1HBWnx4UNjNXN9dbhoI2UTX7KZsi97Bo95EmiFbq50vgkg… _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://secure-web.cisco.com/1UZuV65l0qhDwI663YO06GIjN6TxAmUNM0g13DNb3xhmGd…) and the website Terms of Service (https://secure-web.cisco.com/1zR0FdbodQYgPSU2F8w3sW_br6aLia37p6OZYt6ayQ7Y1f… You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.

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Latin GP Call
by Pitinan Kooarmornpatana July 1, 2021

July 1, 2021

*Starting Now* Dear Latin GP Members, This is a gentle reminder for the Latin GP Call on 1 July 2021 at 16:00 UTC. Please join the Zoom Meeting at https://icann.zoom.us/j/98435828760 Meeting ID: 984 3582 8760 Passcode: 1F$^iEkt$# Agenda for the Latin GP meeting on 1 July 2021, 16:00UTC 1. Reviewing each document with feedback incorporated. * The main document (proposal-latin-lgr-xxJun21-v7-redline.docx [1drv.ms]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/1drv.ms/w/s!AoE6DtesaqpIiScba0zxJ0RrcIZN…>) * Appendix B - Table of Languages Used to Develop Latin Script Repertoire-redline.docx [1drv.ms]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/1drv.ms/w/s!AoE6DtesaqpIiSzZHDh05ufwYjHJ…> * Appendix C - Repertoire Table Grouped by Glyph-redline.docx [1drv.ms]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/1drv.ms/w/s!AoE6DtesaqpIiS0wGrr7PSSf7F3R…> * Appendix D - Variants Analysis-redline.docx [1drv.ms]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/1drv.ms/w/s!AoE6DtesaqpIiS-wpnFI8HT47vl4…> * Appendix D.1 - Shape of Base Characters-redline.docx [1drv.ms]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/1drv.ms/w/s!AoE6DtesaqpIiTFGLJNGaR941bcH…> * Appendix D.3 - Shape of Diacritics-redline.docx [1drv.ms]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/1drv.ms/w/s!AoE6DtesaqpIiTL-0-OgCAlhuIdM…> * Appendix D.5 - IDNA 2003 Compatibility-redline.docx [1drv.ms]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/1drv.ms/w/s!AoE6DtesaqpIiTO8AMvf8ujjdmwC…> * Appendix D.6 - Underlining Evaluation Process-redline.docx [1drv.ms]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/1drv.ms/w/s!AoE6DtesaqpIiTQER3keFHhngmmQ…> * Appendix D.7 - Generic Glyphs-redline.docx [1drv.ms]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/1drv.ms/w/s!AoE6DtesaqpIiTXfkRDCfWOFFbJ7…> * Appendix D.8 - Caron Above-redline.docx [1drv.ms]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/1drv.ms/w/s!AoE6DtesaqpIiTZrRgs3gbSSjxAR…> * Appendix D.9 - Cross-script Variants-redline.docx [1drv.ms]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/1drv.ms/w/s!AoE6DtesaqpIiThkqrN3Bfg8u1c4…> * Appendix E - Visually Confusable Glyphs-redline.docx [1drv.ms]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/1drv.ms/w/s!AoE6DtesaqpIiTnCFUfGCoUSV0OO…> Note: Appendix D.2 and D.4 are not listed here as there is no further feedback on them. 2. Discussion about Greek proposal Regards, Pitinan

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Regarding the Greek LGR
by Bill Jouris July 1, 2021

July 1, 2021

Dear colleagues, We agreed previously that, if the Greek GP had come up withsome variants that we had not, we would accept them rather than argue thepoint. Reading thru the Greek LRG, itseems to me that there are a couple of issues we should discuss. First off, the Greek GP generally finds that a dot above, agrave accent, and an acute accent are variants. As a result, transitivity gives us variants for I, O, and U with dotabove and acute (in addition to the cases of C, N, and Z with acute vs dotabove) plus variants for acute and grave for various letters. The issue that I see is that there are a fewLatin letters which are not included simply because the Greek alphabet has no variantsfrom Latin for the base letter. But isteems to me that, as a matter of consistency, we ought to go back thru and makethose cases variants as well. Second, the Greek GP finds the opposite from our findingwhen it comes to underlining. That is,most of the cases of letters with diacritics below they are, via transitivity, going to bevariants of the letter without underlining. But perhaps (I haven’t gone thru all the cases yet) not all. Again, as a matter of consistency I think weneed to take another look at that. Bill Jouris | | Virus-free. www.avg.com |

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