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Re: [Latingp] ACTION NEEDED: Last comments on mockup proposed by Denis until the end of Friday, April 20
by Mats Dufberg April 19, 2018

April 19, 2018

Proposal is fine. Mats --- Mats Dufberg DNS Specialist, IIS Mobile: +46 73 065 3899 https://www.iis.se/en/ From: Latingp <latingp-bounces(a)icann.org> on behalf of Mirjana Tasić <Mirjana.Tasic(a)rnids.rs> Date: Thursday 19 April 2018 at 19:23 To: ICANN Latin GP <latingp(a)icann.org> Subject: [Latingp] ACTION NEEDED: Last comments on mockup proposed by Denis until the end of Friday, April 20 Dear Latin GP, On our call of April 19 we reviewed the draft worksheet that Latin GP intends to use to capture cross-script analysis and to determine the variants with Latin script. Please kindly review the proposed draft and provide feedback no later than April, Friday 20. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EEDl7WruMcTxZkLJWa05PRGhw4Nc46yr-W2… Regards Mirjana

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AGENDA for the GP call on April, the 19th, 2018, 16:00UTC
by Mirjana Tasić April 19, 2018

April 19, 2018

Dear GP members. Please find enclosed the proposal of Agenda for our next telephone conference. Please, give a look to the documents pointed by links in the proposed Agenda. Regards Mirjana AGENDA for the GP call on April, the 19th, 2018, 16:00UTC 1. Roll call 2. Short tutorial on using ZOOM, new communication tool 3. Proposal of the letter to the community to help us find additional in-script variant https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oi0VsAdv9UVkSGiSbFaJy_dtDA0PkRFkaK2lJZx… 1. Discussion on the Mockup document for Cross-script Analysis https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EEDl7WruMcTxZkLJWa05PRGhw4Nc46yr-W2… 1. Discussion about tables with code points excluded from Repertoire · ALL-CodePointsNotIncluded https://drive.google.com/open?id=1REbgfWyaAB9XeYn-MfwNZ4dXpc0OCgnYS7Mzs6J7u… * CodePointsNotIncluded-OutsideMSR https://drive.google.com/open?id=1lEvneyV9ZzkAE42FvNIHswatnndTDsIWPtYtsM4kx… · CodePointsNotIncluded-FoundInMSR2 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oU2E-Jtq5-HF-V_idDjE2bbthFGg9afznp67zm4… 1. Discussion on further development of Final report https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Dy1zxy2vH6c-xaBMt4nqw4hfUuMN6wNAwDNPDxp… 1. AOB

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Re: [Latingp] Draft variants principles document - Dotless I
by Tan Tanaka, Dennis April 19, 2018

April 19, 2018

Bill, thanks for this. I have to question, though, the relevancy of your experiment. Is a visual test of running test relevant for internet identifiers? And on the subject of visual similarity, I believe this has been discussed extensively and this panel has agreed that visual similarity is outside the scope of our work. The case of the “small dotless I” and “small letter I” is interesting because of the treatment under different locale settings. The focus of our analysis should be on that, taking into account the needs and expectations of different internet users, including the Turkish community. -Dennis From: Bill Jouris <bill.jouris(a)insidethestack.com> Reply-To: Bill Jouris <bill.jouris(a)insidethestack.com> Date: Thursday, April 5, 2018 at 2:05 PM To: Dennis Tan Tanaka <dtantanaka(a)verisign.com>, Mats Dufberg <mats.dufberg(a)iis.se>, Michael Bauland <michael.bauland(a)knipp.de> Cc: Mirjana Tasić <mirjana.tasic(a)rnids.rs> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Latingp] Draft variants principles document - Dotless I I've given some more thought to the Dotless I question. It occurred to me that there are actually two approaches to the question: analysis and experiment. So I ran an experiment. Here are the results: A dozen subjects were tested. All were well-educated native speakers of English. Approximately 1/3 are involved in IT, but none are network experts and none are involved in ICANN. The subjects were given a paragraph to read (on the subject of variants). In one word, the lower case I was replaced by a dotless I. The number of subjects who noticed when reading the paragraph: Zero. The subjects were then told that the substitution had been made, that it was in the first sentence, and shown the dotless I for information. Half managed to locate the substitution in 1 or 2 re-reads of the sentence; half took 3 or more tries to spot the substitution – even though they knew what the substitution was and knew that it was there to find. In short, misreading is the expected result of a substitution. Accordingly, it is again recommended that U0069 and U0131 be determined to be blocked variants Happily, the results are the same as the analysis. I have updated the document with this information. Bill Jouris Inside Products bill.jouris(a)insidethestack.com 831-659-8360 925-855-9512 (direct) ________________________________ From: "Tan Tanaka, Dennis via Latingp" <latingp(a)icann.org> To: "Tan Tanaka, Dennis via Latingp" <latingp(a)icann.org> Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2018 9:41 AM Subject: [Latingp] Draft variants principles document Need assistance with developing the sections for special cases: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IrT_kfildf1SumYUqjkaIkMT-TYx9IRqtuPMV4Y… Thanks, Dennis _______________________________________________ Latingp mailing list Latingp(a)icann.org<mailto:Latingp@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/latingp

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Latin GP Meeting
by Pitinan Kooarmornpatana April 19, 2018

April 19, 2018

Dear Latin GP Members, This is a gentle reminder for the Latin GP meeting today, 19 April 2018. The agenda as follow. Kindly note that we will use Zoom for this meeting. AGENDA for the GP call on April, the 19th, 2018, 16:00UTC 1. Roll call 2. Short tutorial on using ZOOM, new communication tool 3. Proposal of the letter to the community to help us find additional in-script variant https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oi0VsAdv9UVkSGiSbFaJy_dtDA0PkRFkaK2lJZx…<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__docs.google.com_docume…> 4. Discussion on the Mockup document for Cross-script Analysis https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EEDl7WruMcTxZkLJWa05PRGhw4Nc46yr-W2…<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__docs.google.com_spread…> 5. Discussion about tables with code points excluded from Repertoire * ALL-CodePointsNotIncluded https://drive.google.com/open?id=1REbgfWyaAB9XeYn-MfwNZ4dXpc0OCgnYS7Mzs6J7u…<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__drive.google.com_open-…> * CodePointsNotIncluded-OutsideMSR https://drive.google.com/open?id=1lEvneyV9ZzkAE42FvNIHswatnndTDsIWPtYtsM4kx…<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__drive.google.com_open-…> * CodePointsNotIncluded-FoundInMSR2 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oU2E-Jtq5-HF-V_idDjE2bbthFGg9afznp67zm4…<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__docs.google.com_docume…> 6. Discussion on further development of Final report https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Dy1zxy2vH6c-xaBMt4nqw4hfUuMN6wNAwDNPDxp…<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__docs.google.com_docume…> 7. AOB Regards, Pitinan .............................................. How to connect: Join from PC, Mac, Linux, iOS or Android: https://icann.zoom.us/j/602545847 Or iPhone one-tap : US: +19294362866,,602545847# or +16699006833,,602545847# Or Telephone: Dial(for higher quality, dial a number based on your current location): US: +1 929 436 2866 or +1 669 900 6833 or +1 877 853 5247 (Toll Free) or +1 877 369 0926 (Toll Free) Meeting ID: 602 545 847 International numbers available: https://zoom.us/u/bY1Dpd8bb

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Latin GP Meeting
by Pitinan Kooarmornpatana April 16, 2018

April 16, 2018

Dear Latin GP Members, Please find the agenda for the Latin GP meeting as follow. Kindly note that we will use Zoom for this meeting. AGENDA for the GP call on April, the 19th, 2018, 16:00UTC 1. Roll call 2. Short tutorial on using ZOOM, new communication tool 3. Proposal of the letter to the community to help us find additional in-script variant https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oi0VsAdv9UVkSGiSbFaJy_dtDA0PkRFkaK2lJZx…<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__docs.google.com_docume…> 1. Discussion on the Mockup document for Cross-script Analysis https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EEDl7WruMcTxZkLJWa05PRGhw4Nc46yr-W2…<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__docs.google.com_spread…> 1. Discussion about tables with code points excluded from Repertoire * ALL-CodePointsNotIncluded https://drive.google.com/open?id=1REbgfWyaAB9XeYn-MfwNZ4dXpc0OCgnYS7Mzs6J7u…<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__drive.google.com_open-…> * CodePointsNotIncluded-OutsideMSR https://drive.google.com/open?id=1lEvneyV9ZzkAE42FvNIHswatnndTDsIWPtYtsM4kx…<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__drive.google.com_open-…> * CodePointsNotIncluded-FoundInMSR2 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oU2E-Jtq5-HF-V_idDjE2bbthFGg9afznp67zm4…<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__docs.google.com_docume…> 1. Discussion on further development of Final report https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Dy1zxy2vH6c-xaBMt4nqw4hfUuMN6wNAwDNPDxp…<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__docs.google.com_docume…> 1. AOB Regards, Pitinan .............................................. How to connect: Join from PC, Mac, Linux, iOS or Android: https://icann.zoom.us/j/602545847 Or iPhone one-tap : US: +19294362866,,602545847# or +16699006833,,602545847# Or Telephone: Dial(for higher quality, dial a number based on your current location): US: +1 929 436 2866 or +1 669 900 6833 or +1 877 853 5247 (Toll Free) or +1 877 369 0926 (Toll Free) Meeting ID: 602 545 847 International numbers available: https://zoom.us/u/bY1Dpd8bb

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cross-script analysis worksheet mockup
by Tan Tanaka, Dennis April 13, 2018

April 13, 2018

All, This is a preliminary mockup of a worksheet to capture cross-script variant candidates. The worksheet incorporates the elements we discussed in Brussels, with a caveat. I added a new Score value of 5 to denote N/A (not applicable). This is to be used when there is no single Latin candidate to compare against the target script. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EEDl7WruMcTxZkLJWa05PRGhw4Nc46yr-W2… I thought of different layouts but decided on this format to optimize for side-to-side comparison. Let me know your feedback in order to finalize the worksheet template. The next step is to populate the worksheets with the repertoire of the target scripts (i.e. Cyrillic, Greek and Armenian) Thanks, Dennis

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Summary of Latin GP on 5 April 2018
by Pitinan Kooarmornpatana April 7, 2018

April 7, 2018

Dear Latin GP Members, Please find attached the summary of the meeting of Latin GP on 5 April 2018. Please let us know if you would like to suggest any edits or additions. Action Items S. No. Action Items Owner 1 Simplify the letter to the community calling for the information for variant. DT 2 Review the draft Principle for variant analysis and add the special cases section. ALL 3 Adjust the repertoire table in the Unicode code ascending order. SH 4 Complete the first draft of proposal to accompany the repertoire XML. MT 5 Work with the GP chair to decide the tool for the next meeting. PK This summary and the recording are posted at the Latin GP wiki page at https://community.icann.org/display/croscomlgrprocedure/Latin+GP[community.…<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_di…> Regards, Pitinan

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Re: [Latingp] Draft variants principles document - Dotless I
by Tan Tanaka, Dennis April 6, 2018

April 6, 2018

During the Brussels workshop we talked about doing visual tests, etc. We asked the IP whether such tests would be acceptable to support the definition of variant sets. They replied, no. Visual confusion if out of scope. We discussed it, accepted that reality and moved on. About the Japanese case. What they told the Japanese GP is consistent what IP told us in Brussels regarding cross-script homoglyphs. So I see no problem here. Dotless I case: we were requested to analyze this case due to compatibility issues vis-à-vis IDNA2003, not on grounds of visual confusion. So, all I’m asking is to focus on the ask. -Dennis From: Mats Dufberg <mats.dufberg(a)iis.se> Date: Friday, April 6, 2018 at 5:21 AM To: Dennis Tan Tanaka <dtantanaka(a)verisign.com>, Bill Jouris <bill.jouris(a)insidethestack.com> Cc: Mirjana Tasić <mirjana.tasic(a)rnids.rs>, Latin GP <latingp(a)icann.org>, Michael Bauland <michael.bauland(a)knipp.de> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Latingp] Draft variants principles document - Dotless I Dennis, I believe that a visual test of running text is relevant for Internet identifiers. Internet identifiers are often found in running text. What Bills test shows (which is of no surprise to us) is that people have a hard time noticing minute differences of no relevance. I think we all agree that homoglyph pairs should be handled by variant rules. And that is because they are visual similar to the extreme. At the ICANN 61 meeting, the IP actually proposed to the Japanese GP that some pairs of characters from different Unicode scripts (but from a Japanese perspective belonging to the Japanese script) be treated as variants even though those character pairs are not homoglyphs. Yes, SMALL LETTER I and SMALL LETTER DOTLESS I are interesting because of the complexity of up-casing and down-casing in different locales. But if we are allowed to take upper case into consideration, there are other interesting cases. The upper case of LATIN SMALL LETTER D WITH STROKE (U+0111), LATIN SMALL LETTER ETH (U+00F0) and LATIN SMALL LETTER D WITH TAIL (U+0256) are homoglyphs which opens up for injections of "false" domains. Mats --- Mats Dufberg DNS Specialist, IIS Mobile: +46 73 065 3899 https://www.iis.se/en/ From: "Tan Tanaka, Dennis" <dtantanaka(a)verisign.com> Date: Thursday 5 April 2018 at 20:27 To: Bill Jouris <bill.jouris(a)insidethestack.com>, Mats Dufberg <mats.dufberg(a)iis.se>, Michael Bauland <michael.bauland(a)knipp.de> Cc: Mirjana Tasić <mirjana.tasic(a)rnids.rs>, ICANN Latin GP <latingp(a)icann.org> Subject: Re: [Latingp] Draft variants principles document - Dotless I Bill, thanks for this. I have to question, though, the relevancy of your experiment. Is a visual test of running test relevant for internet identifiers? And on the subject of visual similarity, I believe this has been discussed extensively and this panel has agreed that visual similarity is outside the scope of our work. The case of the “small dotless I” and “small letter I” is interesting because of the treatment under different locale settings. The focus of our analysis should be on that, taking into account the needs and expectations of different internet users, including the Turkish community. -Dennis From: Bill Jouris <bill.jouris(a)insidethestack.com> Reply-To: Bill Jouris <bill.jouris(a)insidethestack.com> Date: Thursday, April 5, 2018 at 2:05 PM To: Dennis Tan Tanaka <dtantanaka(a)verisign.com>, Mats Dufberg <mats.dufberg(a)iis.se>, Michael Bauland <michael.bauland(a)knipp.de> Cc: Mirjana Tasić <mirjana.tasic(a)rnids.rs> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Latingp] Draft variants principles document - Dotless I I've given some more thought to the Dotless I question. It occurred to me that there are actually two approaches to the question: analysis and experiment. So I ran an experiment. Here are the results: A dozen subjects were tested. All were well-educated native speakers of English. Approximately 1/3 are involved in IT, but none are network experts and none are involved in ICANN. The subjects were given a paragraph to read (on the subject of variants). In one word, the lower case I was replaced by a dotless I. The number of subjects who noticed when reading the paragraph: Zero. The subjects were then told that the substitution had been made, that it was in the first sentence, and shown the dotless I for information. Half managed to locate the substitution in 1 or 2 re-reads of the sentence; half took 3 or more tries to spot the substitution – even though they knew what the substitution was and knew that it was there to find. In short, misreading is the expected result of a substitution. Accordingly, it is again recommended that U0069 and U0131 be determined to be blocked variants Happily, the results are the same as the analysis. I have updated the document with this information. Bill Jouris Inside Products bill.jouris(a)insidethestack.com 831-659-8360 925-855-9512 (direct) ________________________________ From: "Tan Tanaka, Dennis via Latingp" <latingp(a)icann.org> To: "Tan Tanaka, Dennis via Latingp" <latingp(a)icann.org> Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2018 9:41 AM Subject: [Latingp] Draft variants principles document Need assistance with developing the sections for special cases: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IrT_kfildf1SumYUqjkaIkMT-TYx9IRqtuPMV4Y… Thanks, Dennis _______________________________________________ Latingp mailing list Latingp(a)icann.org<mailto:Latingp@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/latingp

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call for help letter
by Tan Tanaka, Dennis April 6, 2018

April 6, 2018

Mirjana, Revised letter https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oi0VsAdv9UVkSGiSbFaJy_dtDA0PkRFkaK2lJZx… This is now a stripped down version as discussed yesterday. The document is open for anyone to edit. -Dennis

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Draft variants principles document
by Tan Tanaka, Dennis April 5, 2018

April 5, 2018

Need assistance with developing the sections for special cases: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IrT_kfildf1SumYUqjkaIkMT-TYx9IRqtuPMV4Y… Thanks, Dennis

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