December 2021 - Latingp - lists.icann.org

Canceled: Latin GP meeting
by Pitinan Kooarmornpatana Dec. 24, 2021

Dec. 24, 2021

Dear Latin GP members The meeting on 27 December is cancelled. The meetings will be resumed on 3 Jan 2022. Regards, Pitinan

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Proposed answers: underlining, capital letters and digits
by Tan Tanaka, Dennis Dec. 23, 2021

Dec. 23, 2021

Here is a proposed draft. The response to underlining is a summary of section 6.4.1., I don’t think we need to repeat much here but stress some of the important points. For capital letters and digits, I collapsed them into a single response —because the common factor is that they are not in included in MSR. Best, Dennis

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Latin GP meeting
by Pitinan Kooarmornpatana Dec. 20, 2021

Dec. 20, 2021

Dear Latin GP members This is a placeholder for the Latin GP meeting calls on Mondays at 16:00UTC. Join Zoom Meeting https://icann.zoom.us/j/98435828760 Meeting ID: 984 3582 8760 Passcode: 1F$^iEkt$# Agenda for the Latin GP meeting on 20 December 2021, 16:00 UTC 1. Planning for finalizing the proposal 2. To continue - finalization of responses to public comments for * Repertoire comments (GP members to comment the response on Onedrive) * Variant comments (GP members to comment the response on Onedrive 2. Discussion about Latin Script Root Zone LGR public comments , see the working document attached in this mail https://www.icann.org/en/public-comment/proceeding/proposal-for-latin-scrip…<https://www.icann.org/en/public-comment/proceeding/proposal-for-latin-scrip…> * Underlining comments * Confusable * Capital letters * Numerals * Adding a reference to EGIDS scale 3. AOB * Change of criteria for inclusion of languages in the Repertoire Regards, Pitinan

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Agenda for the Latin GP meeting on 20 December 2021, 16:00 UTC
by Mirjana Tasić Dec. 20, 2021

Dec. 20, 2021

Dear GP members, I am asking, again, Latin GP members to comment all proposed responses. Here is the agenda proposal for the next call. Comments and suggestions are the most welcome. Regards Mirjana ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Agenda for the Latin GP meeting on 20 December 2021, 16:00 UTC 1. To continue - finalization of responses to public comments for * Repertoire comments (GP members to comment the response on Onedrive) * Variant comments (GP members to comment the response on Onedrive 1. Discussion about Latin Script Root Zone LGR public comments , see the working document attached in this mail https://www.icann.org/en/public-comment/proceeding/proposal-for-latin-scrip… * Underlining comments * Confusable * Capital letters * Numerals * Adding a reference to EGIDS scale 1. AOB * Change of criteria for inclusion of languages in the Repertoire

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Presentation of Latin GP at ICANN72
by Pitinan Kooarmornpatana Dec. 14, 2021

Dec. 14, 2021

Dear Latin GP members, As raised in the call on 13 Dec 2021, please find attached the presentation slide used during the ICANN72. The reference to the EGIDS is on page 16, pointing to https://www.ethnologue.com/about/language-status. Regards, Pitinan

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Summary notes of the Latin GP meeting on 13 December 2021
by Pitinan Kooarmornpatana Dec. 13, 2021

Dec. 13, 2021

Dear Latin GP members, Please find attached the summary of the Latin GP meeting on 13 December 2021. Action Items: S. No. Action Item Owner 1 Draft the updated text for Latin Middle Dot exclusion rationale MD 2 Edit the response to cross script variants with Armenian script as discussed by the GP PK 3 Add references to LGR Procedure and EGIDS table as discussed by the GP PK The recording and the note are also posted at the Latin GP wiki page athttps://community.icann.org/display/croscomlgrprocedure/Latin+GP. If you have any suggestions or comments, please let us know. Regards, Pitinan

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Middle Dot
by Bill Jouris Dec. 13, 2021

Dec. 13, 2021

Dear Colleagues, I have proposed an alternate response to the request that we include the Middle Dot in our repertoire. I think it better reflects the actual course of events, as well as the appropriate course if the commenter desires to pursue the matter further. To save you looking for the online text, her is what I propose: The Latin GP agrees that the Middle Dot should be part of the Latin script repertoire. To that end, we petitioned the Integration Panel, back when we were developing the repertoire, to add it to the MSR. The Integration Panel declined. Accordingly, since entries in our repertoire are required to be in the MSR, the Latin GP is powerless to act on this request. The commenter will need to apply to the Integration Panel for satisfaction. Bill

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Re: [Latingp] Summary of the Latin GP meeting on 1 December 2021
by Tan Tanaka, Dennis Dec. 13, 2021

Dec. 13, 2021

Draft response to variant comments enclosed. Dennis From: Latingp <latingp-bounces(a)icann.org> on behalf of Pitinan Kooarmornpatana via Latingp <latingp(a)icann.org> Reply-To: Pitinan Kooarmornpatana <pitinan.koo(a)icann.org> Date: Monday, December 6, 2021 at 8:33 AM To: "latingp(a)icann.org" <latingp(a)icann.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] [Latingp] Summary of the Latin GP meeting on 1 December 2021 Caution: This email originated from outside the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Dear Latin GP members, Please find attached the summary of the Latin GP meeting on 1 December 2021. Action Items: S. No. Action Item Owner 1 Draft the response to Armenian GP chair for GP’s consideration MB 2 Draft the response regarding the repertoire for GP’s consideration DT The recording and the note are also posted at the Latin GP wiki page at https://community.icann.org/display/croscomlgrprocedure/Latin+GP<https://secure-web.cisco.com/1yrJkmq4uZgPeadswecZ19hKBwt3oSecAbmBYAU26txIVJ…>. If you have any suggestions or comments, please let us know. Regards, Pitinan

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Latin GP meeting
by Pitinan Kooarmornpatana Dec. 13, 2021

Dec. 13, 2021

Dear Latin GP members This is a gentle reminder for the Latin GP meeting calls on Monday 13 December 2021 at 16:00UTC. Join Zoom Meeting https://icann.zoom.us/j/98435828760 Meeting ID: 984 3582 8760 Passcode: 1F$^iEkt$# Agenda for the Latin GP meeting on 13 December 2021, 16:00 UTC 1. Finalization of responses to public comments for * Cross script variants with Armenian (GP members to comment the response on Onedrive<https://1drv.ms/t/s!AoE6DtesaqpIiXdjNMwY3cfox9tb?e=s3Kmb1>) * Repertoire comments (GP members to comment the response on Onedrive<https://1drv.ms/w/s!AoE6DtesaqpIiXbAB3krYB5b8YBN?e=ozoNna>) * Variant comments (GP members to comment the response on Onedrive<https://1drv.ms/w/s!AoE6DtesaqpIiXshcaThITDb3epp?e=Ba8FYt> 2. Discussion about Latin Script Root Zone LGR public comments , see the working document attached in this mail https://www.icann.org/en/public-comment/proceeding/proposal-for-latin-scrip…<https://www.icann.org/en/public-comment/proceeding/proposal-for-latin-scrip…> • Underlining comments • Confusable • Capital letters • Numerals • Adding a reference to EGIDS scale 3. AOB * Change of criteria for inclusion of languages in the Repertoire Regards, Pitinan

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Agenda for the Latin GP meeting on 13 December 2021, 16:00 UTC
by Mirjana Tasić Dec. 12, 2021

Dec. 12, 2021

Dear GP members, I have uploaded draft answer to public comments about variants, provided by Dennis to onedrive Here is the link with all documents which will be discussed during our call https://onedrive.live.com/?id=48AA6AACD70E3A81%211267&cid=48AA6AACD70E3A81 I added comments from the mails to the documents which are mentioned in the mails.. I am asking Latin GP members to comment all proposed responses. Here is the agenda proposal for the next call. Comments and suggestions are the most welcome. Regards Mirjana ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Agenda for the Latin GP meeting on 13 December 2021, 16:00 UTC 1. Finalization of responses to public comments for * Cross script variants with Armenian (GP members to comment the response on Onedrive) * Repertoire comments (GP members to comment the response on Onedrive) * Variant comments (GP members to comment the response on Onedrive 1. Discussion about Latin Script Root Zone LGR public comments , see the working document attached in this mail https://www.icann.org/en/public-comment/proceeding/proposal-for-latin-scrip… * Underlining comments * Confusable * Capital letters * Numerals * Adding a reference to EGIDS scale 1. AOB * Change of criteria for inclusion of languages in the Repertoire

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Agenda for the Latin GP meeting on 1 December 2021, 16:00 UTC
by Mirjana Tasić Dec. 10, 2021

Dec. 10, 2021

Dear GP members, Here is the agenda proposal for the next call. Comments and suggestions are the most welcome. Regards Mirjana ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Agenda for the Latin GP meeting on 1 December 2021, 16:00 UTC 1. Proposal – new weekly meeting time 16:00 UTC, Michael will be on holiday starting 13 Dec. 1 Dec 2021 6 Dec 2021 13 Dec 2021 20 Dec 2021 27 Dec 2021 1. Proposal – How to proceed with Latin Script Root Zone LGR public comments , see the working document attached in this mail https://www.icann.org/en/public-comment/proceeding/proposal-for-latin-scrip… 2.1 Cross script variants with Armenian 2.2 Confusable 2.3 Repertoire comments 2.4 Variant comments 2.5 Underlining comments 2.6 Capital letters 2.7 Numerals 2.8 Adding a reference to EGIDS scale 1. AOB

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Monday's Meeting
by Bill Jouris Dec. 7, 2021

Dec. 7, 2021

Hello Mirjana, I am really distressed that, in Monday’smeeting, you seemed to be saying that everybody who made a substantive commentabout our draft report was characterizing our work as “rubbish.” I do not, repeat NOT, think our work wasrubbish. And I do not believe that theother commenters do either. The Latin script is an enormous mess, require several ordersof magnitude more effort to address than the task faced by any other scriptGP. We have all worked hard, for manyyears, to deal with it. And most of ourwork has been, in my opinion, quite good. Anyone who follows us will inevitably workfrom the base we have created. Obviously I think we have made some incorrect decisions on acouple of points. But that is a far cryfrom disparaging the whole thing, or suggesting that it be thrown out entirely. For example, consider the matter of variants. Since you and Michael are adamantly opposedto making changes to the threshold we used here, I am aware that it isn’t goingto happen. But suppose, hypothetically, that we were to changethe threshold from 5 of 7 members to 3, or even 1 member finding a pair ofglyphs to be indistinguishable. Wouldall the work need to be redone? Clearlynot. We have in hand the ratingspreadsheets that we used, and there would be no need to redo those. All that would be required is to go thru andlook at how many of us rated a particular pair 1 or 2. That isn’t something that requires a lot ofexpertise or a lot of work. It is,frankly, a clerical task. A low levelclerical task. I hope you can review the comments we got, and come to see thatnobody is disparaging our work. Theymerely have some thoughts about how it could be done better. We may disagree with their suggestions. (I know I disagree with some of them.) But that's all. Warmest regards, Bill

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Repertoire Expansion
by Bill Jouris Dec. 7, 2021

Dec. 7, 2021

Dear colleagues, During our meeting last week, there were concerns expressedabout expanding the number of languages we consider for our repertoire. In particular the number of additionallanguages was thought to be large (Dennis’ draft response says “hundreds, ifnot thousands, of languages around the world”) and the time required to deal withthem amounting to weeks. Good news: - There aren’t - It didn’t There may be as many as a thousand languages which, at onetime or another, were written using the Latin script. But the IDN project has been clear from earlyon that it would only consider scripts from “living languages.” It does not seem unreasonable, therefore,that only living languages should be considered when analyzing a givenscript. And the number of living languagesusing the Latin script is approximately 450. (Of which, we have already done over 200.) Furthermore, to be worth including in our analysisa language would need to have what the EGIDS 5 definition calls “literature ina standardized form”. (Dennis, in hiscomments in the meeting and his draft response, appears to suggest conflating EGDIS5 and EGIDS 6a. However, it seems to methat this confuses the issue. The languagesin EGDIS 6a do not involve (yet) a standard orthography; that’s why they aren’tEGDIS 5.) What the comments aretherefore suggesting, it seems to me, is eliminating the 1,000,000 nativespeakers threshold, and including every language which EGDIS 5. An expansion of our work; but not, as weshall see, an enormous one. Mirjana noted during the meeting that it had taken her 3months to compile the list of languages which we analyzed initially. The implication being that it would take aslong to do the same this time. Fortunately, the fruits of her labors then are still available to usnow. In particular, her compilation of languagesusing the Latin script which are EGDIS 5. See https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PwUa4Tkqpp2GGz8-hYDbKz357BSlMG6vkbrAmUq… The total number of languages which are EGDIS 5? 110. Betteryet, some 30 of those are already included in our work. Further, 4 are no longer using the Latinscript (although they did in the past) and one appears to no longer have livingnative speakers. So we are left with 75languages additional languages. Notthousands. Not hundreds. 75. I’ve created a spreadsheet (attached), the first tab ofwhich builds on Mirjana’s list, but includes columns for the new code points,if any, which appear in each language (as well as the Unicode and name). The first column is a flag. Languages which are already included have agreen flag , languages which are nolonger EGDIS 5 have a pink flag , andthe languages to be added have a yellow flag . How many new code points are there? 26. (Or possibly 28, if someone smarter than me can contrive a way to produceLatin Small Letter E with Breve and Combining Circumflex, or Latin Small LetterO with Breve and Combining Circumflex, that look like the images given inOmniglot for the Jarai language.) Happily, the analysis didn’t take weeks. More like 2 half days. The second tab of the spreadsheet gives the new code points,in the same format used in our repertoire tables, ready to be folded in to ourexisting tables. Of course, thatrequires having the References available. So a second attachment gives all the references, in proper form, readyto be tacked on to the end of our Reference section. Of course, we can still refuse, on principle, to include anyEGDIS 5 language with less than a million native speakers. Assuming that someone can come up with such aprinciple. But we need to be clear thatthe time and effort required to analyze the additional languages cannot be our excuse to do so. Bill

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Summary notes of the Latin GP meeting on 6 December 2021
by Pitinan Kooarmornpatana Dec. 7, 2021

Dec. 7, 2021

Dear Latin GP members, Please find attached the summary of the Latin GP meeting on 6 December 2021. Action Items: S. No. Action Item Owner 1 Draft the response to variant related comments for GP’s consideration DT The recording and the note are also posted at the Latin GP wiki page athttps://community.icann.org/display/croscomlgrprocedure/Latin+GP. If you have any suggestions or comments, please let us know. Regards, Pitinan

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Summary of the Latin GP meeting on 1 December 2021
by Pitinan Kooarmornpatana Dec. 6, 2021

Dec. 6, 2021

Dear Latin GP members, Please find attached the summary of the Latin GP meeting on 1 December 2021. Action Items: S. No. Action Item Owner 1 Draft the response to Armenian GP chair for GP’s consideration MB 2 Draft the response regarding the repertoire for GP’s consideration DT The recording and the note are also posted at the Latin GP wiki page at https://community.icann.org/display/croscomlgrprocedure/Latin+GP. If you have any suggestions or comments, please let us know. Regards, Pitinan

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Latin GP meeting
by Pitinan Kooarmornpatana Dec. 6, 2021

Dec. 6, 2021

Dear Latin GP members This is a gentle reminder for the Latin GP meeting calls on Monday 6 December 2021 at 16:00UTC. Agenda for the Latin GP meeting on 6 December 2021, 16:00 UTC 1. Discussion about Latin Script Root Zone LGR public comments https://www.icann.org/en/public-comment/proceeding/proposal-for-latin-scrip…<https://www.icann.org/en/public-comment/proceeding/proposal-for-latin-scrip…> using the working document at https://1drv.ms/w/s!AoE6DtesaqpIiXSWelp_MMHhdcpv?e=D50Ohy * Cross script variants with Armenian https://1drv.ms/t/s!AoE6DtesaqpIiXdjNMwY3cfox9tb?e=Wlk887 (GP members to comment the response on Onedrive) * Repertoire comments https://1drv.ms/w/s!AoE6DtesaqpIiXbAB3krYB5b8YBN?e=eAEiZc (GP members to comment the response on Onedrive) * Variant comments * Underlining comments * Confusable * Capital letters * Numerals * Adding a reference to EGIDS scale 2. AOB Join Zoom Meeting https://icann.zoom.us/j/98435828760 Meeting ID: 984 3582 8760 Passcode: 1F$^iEkt$# Regards, Pitinan

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Agenda for the Latin GP meeting on 6 December 2021, 16:00 UTC
by Mirjana Tasić Dec. 6, 2021

Dec. 6, 2021

Dear GP members, I am asking Pitinan to put the responses to public comments provided by Michael and Dennis on Hazzem’s one drive, and to send links for those two responses to Latin GP mailing list. I am asking Latin GP members to comment these responses, we shall discuss the responses to comments during one of our future calls. We shall devote the call on December the 6th to discussion of public comments on Variants. Here is the agenda proposal for the next call. Comments and suggestions are the most welcome. Regards Mirjana ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Agenda for the Latin GP meeting on 6 December 2021, 16:00 UTC 1. Discussion about Latin Script Root Zone LGR public comments , see the working document attached in this mail https://www.icann.org/en/public-comment/proceeding/proposal-for-latin-scrip… * Cross script variants with Armenian (GP members to comment the response on Onedrive) * Repertoire comments (GP members to comment the response on Onedrive) * Variant comments * Underlining comments * Confusable * Capital letters * Numerals * Adding a reference to EGIDS scale 1. AOB

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Latin GP meeting
by Pitinan Kooarmornpatana Dec. 2, 2021

Dec. 2, 2021

Dear Latin GP members This is a placeholder for the Latin GP meeting calls on Mondays at 16:00UTC. Join Zoom Meeting https://icann.zoom.us/j/98435828760 Meeting ID: 984 3582 8760 Passcode: 1F$^iEkt$# Regards, Pitinan

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Latin GP meeting
by Pitinan Kooarmornpatana Dec. 1, 2021

Dec. 1, 2021

**Starting in 1 hour** Dear Latin GP members This is a gentle reminder for the Latin GP meeting call on Wednesday 1 December 2021 at 16:00UTC. Join Zoom Meeting https://icann.zoom.us/j/98435828760 Meeting ID: 984 3582 8760 Passcode: 1F$^iEkt$# Regards, Pitinan

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