February 2017 - Latingp - lists.icann.org

Latin GP meetings - alternate Thursdays 1pm UTC
by Sarmad Hussain Feb. 7, 2017

Feb. 7, 2017

Agenda for the conference call on 09th of February, 2017 1. Roll call 2. Latin GP proposal discussion https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eSk8rIwR4Kev9v0SJrllawVt_GWYBHVU-YB6Kkw…<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__docs.google.com_docume…> Main focus on the section 3.2 Proposed schedules of meetings and teleconferences 3. AOB? How to connect: Link to Adobe Connect: https://participate.icann.org/idn/ *Upon logging into Adobe Connect, a pop up window will provide you the option to Dial Out to your Phone. Enter your Phone Number* (Remember to change the Country Code if needed). After joining the call, as a courtesy to others and the presenters, please MUTE your phone. This can be done by selecting *6 on your keypad. To UNMUTE select *6 again. If you are Unable to log into Adobe Connect and can only join via phone: https://www.myrcplus.com/cnums.asp?bwebid=8369444&ppc=1064158692&num=1-719-… Participant Passcode: 1064158692

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Agenda for the call on February 9th, 2017
by Mirjana Tasić Feb. 7, 2017

Feb. 7, 2017

Dear GP members, Here is the proposed agenda for our next call. Regards Mirjana Agenda for the conference call on 09th of February, 2017 1. Roll call 2. Latin GP proposal discussion https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eSk8rIwR4Kev9v0SJrllawVt_GWYBHVU-YB6Kkw… Main focus on the section 3.2 Proposed schedules of meetings and teleconferences 1. AOB

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Table with EGDIS = 3,4 languages ready for work
by Mirjana Tasić Feb. 6, 2017

Feb. 6, 2017

Dear GP members, Sorry for my proposal to take 10 languages for the test. I thought we might get better estimation if we process more languages, forgetting that we have limited time for the test. There is a new version of the table in Google docs with name of volunteers in column “GP member” for this step. I have allocated one language with EGIDS=3 and one with EGIDS=4 to every volunteer. I have chosen languages with more than 1.000.000 speakers. The link for the table is https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IVZvFVSjkxo4cj-r79j1CzMWLkalj7-19qBA5X0… I hope that everyone has the access granted to the table. We have five volunteers for this step: Denis, Mats, Michael, Mirjana and Sarmad. I think it will be useful that everyone put the time spent for processing selected language in the column “Processed”. Regards Mirjana

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Cannot attend next meeting 2017-02-09
by Mats Dufberg Feb. 5, 2017

Feb. 5, 2017

Friends, I cannot attend the meeting on Thursday. Yours, Mats --- Mats Dufberg DNS Specialist, IIS Mobile: +46 73 065 3899 https://www.iis.se/en/

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New instructions how to proceed with our test
by Mirjana Tasić Feb. 5, 2017

Feb. 5, 2017

Dear GP members, I am sorry, I am late with this new version of instructions for our test. Last week was very busy for me. First, I have to thank Meikal very much for his help, and better version of the table with attested Latin letters. I must confess that I forgot this letter he sent last summer. I made the new version of instructions, they could be found in line here and in Google docs too: 01-TEST-How-to-attest-letters-in-Latin-languages-v01<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NRYCtrgYqcK1USIE4AQ-oc5ypWGGq9Th6i9sHCA…> I have tested the instructions, and they look clear to me. Please any comments, suggestions, remarks, questions are most welcome. Meikal had some other proposals, my opinion is that we can discuss them later. Regards Mirjana LATIN GP - How to process Latin letters in specific languages Proposal - How to proceed with attesting Latin letters in MSR2 using available sources, starting from language alphabets side: 1.The table 01-LanguagesAZ-EGIDS-3-4<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IVZvFVSjkxo4cj-r79j1CzMWLkalj7-19qBA5X0…> is uploaded to GoogleDocs platform. Every member of GP has editing rights on the table. Table has 86 languages. 2. The second column of the table (Language) has a link to the omniglot entry for this language. If some of the links don’t work this case should be notified in the column Comment for the selected language. Mirjana will correct the link. 3. On the omniglot page for a specific language, usually, the alphabet for the selected language is given. The alphabet is given as image. If there is a need to get character from the alphabet, some other source must be found. On the same page, there are other links that can be used for further identification of characters used in alphabet. Usually, the wikipedia link proves to be very useful. Notice: only lowercase letters should be considered. 4. When the character is copied to the clipboard following site should be used to get UNICODE representation of the character http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/character.jsp If there is difficult to identify specific character in the alphabet, this case should be noted in the column “Comment” of the table 01-LanguagesAZ-EGIDS-3-4<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IVZvFVSjkxo4cj-r79j1CzMWLkalj7-19qBA5X0…>. 4 . Every letter in the specific alphabet should be investigated and checked against LatinPart-MSR2-Attestation.V6<https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fFe-uo5Gbh6nxf3c8LIoP_UvOpGN9lH-8Ro…> . There are three possible cases: 1. If the letter is previously marked with CLDR in column “Ref” in the table LatinPart-MSR2-Attestation.V6<https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fFe-uo5Gbh6nxf3c8LIoP_UvOpGN9lH-8Ro…>, this letter has to be skipped, it is attested. 1. If any letter (without CLDR in column Ref) is found, the row in the table must be filled with available information. For this test, the initials of the person processing the letter should be put in the column “Ref”. 1. If any new letter, which is not in the table LatinPart-MSR2-Attestation.V6<https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fFe-uo5Gbh6nxf3c8LIoP_UvOpGN9lH-8Ro…>, would be found, it has to be added at the end of table with all available information. For this test, the initials of the person processing the letter should be put in the column “Ref”. 1. Minimum set of information on specific new letter that has to be filled in the table are: * Unicode code * Glyph (if the source allows copy/paste function) * Example of language using the code point * UNICODE character name * Comment on the sources which provided relevant information 2. When the identification of all characters for a language is done, this should be noted in the column “Processed” of the table 01-LanguagesAZ-EGIDS-3-4<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IVZvFVSjkxo4cj-r79j1CzMWLkalj7-19qBA5X0…> as the time in minutes spent for processing the specific language

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Versioning conflict of resource documents/Transfer of Google Docs ownership
by Meikal Mumin Feb. 2, 2017

Feb. 2, 2017

Dear Mirjana, Dear colleagues, I was working through our recent LatinGP emails, since I managed to dedicate a bit more time. I saw that you had recreated - from scratch - some files, I had worked on earlier and which I had originally shared with the group too. This has led to a situation where we now have doubled resource documents, and my original edits as suggestion for changes became ended up in a fork, which was not the one shared with the group in your most recent emails. I would suggest that we reunite the different forks, and continue working on the documents I had edited and worked on earlier. Particularly the file/google docs document "Latin part of MSR2 with attestations v5 <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tu_WfZ2OAYmzUMmU3Ys9pxPafd_YQ35XBCNUpYV…>" is a fork based on original work by Chris, which I had worked on quite a bit in 2016 since the last edits by Chris, and Scott Emblen-Jarrett had also made some edits, however I had also merged this document with the document currently entitled "01-LanguagesAZ-EGIDS-3-4 <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IVZvFVSjkxo4cj-r79j1CzMWLkalj7-19qBA5X0…>", which I had added as a separate sheet entitled "Language Data <https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FX5XEuqU2g5-pVr6rWLRhE3KiE4JxT8Kd70…>", to allow for cross-referencing within the same document. Originally, I had shared my Google Docs import with the group in an email dated June 08, 2016, and I have quoted the text below: Dear colleagues, > since Chris has left us I thought it was a good moment to try and transfer > our work into a form which is better suited for collaboration. I for one > was having problems with the Word files, which were very slow and kept > crashing for me, plus keeping the versions apart was confusing to me. > Accordingly, when I found some time to continue the review of the list > codepoints I had promised earlier, I took the time to convert it into a > Google Docs Spreadsheets documents, which is like an Excel file but > stored in the cloud and it can be edited in the browser. All changes are > tracked and saved automatically, so ideally we can stop worrying about > version control. > I am still in the progress of walking through the list of codepoints. > However I'm sharing it with you now so we can continue collaborating on it > while I go on with my own review. We can always export the work from their > back to an Excel or any other spreadsheet file (including all earlier > versions under automatic version control) should the need arise. It offers > nearly all other features of Excel, including features such as comments and > highlights we all know from Word. > You can access the document from any browser using this link: > https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FX5XEuqU2g5-pVr6rWLR > hE3KiE4JxT8Kd70I6jlMSBU/edit?usp=sharing > If you have any Google Account it would be good to access the document > while you are logged in, so we could all understand who made comments and > changes, however it is not necessary for access. Please let me know if you > have any Google (Apps) account so I could invited you directly to edit > and take ownership of the document (currently it is associated with my own > Google account) so it will become accessible to all LGP members and so we > could share the administration of our repository of documents also in the > future. > Similarly and again for the sake of simplicity of collaboration, I plan to > transfer the draft for the actual proposal from Word into a Google Docs Text > document. > I hope this will prove helpful and enable us to collaborate easier and > make some progress, even during our transitioning period from one chair to > another (set of) chairs. > I'll look forward to any comments either on the conversion process or the > documents themselves. > Best wishes, > Meikal The link to the file is still the same. I believe that my version of the list of MSR-2 codepoints relevant to Latin in the shared document entitled "Roman/Latin Script LGR Draft <https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FX5XEuqU2g5-pVr6rWLRhE3KiE4JxT8Kd70…>" is more advanced than the re-import in the document entitled "Latin part of MSR2 with attestations v5 <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tu_WfZ2OAYmzUMmU3Ys9pxPafd_YQ35XBCNUpYV…>" and re-shared again recently by you, however I would suggest we double check, since I don't know which changes you had made in the Word-file form since the last edits by Chris, and you might have re-imported your version on the basis of that Word file. In the case of the document "01-LanguagesAZ-EGIDS-3-4 <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IVZvFVSjkxo4cj-r79j1CzMWLkalj7-19qBA5X0…>", I had made structural changes and formatting changes mostly in the hope of making it more understandable, however I believe that your recent version features a different list of language (yours is restricted to EGIDS 3-4 and has 86 entries - the one in my revision and based on the work by Chris included EGIDS 5 too occasionally and has 73 entries), so we have to exhibit care to reunite those two forks. Lastly, I had changed the color coding and start documenting them in a third sheet called "Standards & Abbreviations <https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FX5XEuqU2g5-pVr6rWLRhE3KiE4JxT8Kd70…>" - I assume the later could be unified with your document entitled " HowToProcLetInLang <https://docs.google.com/document/d/11f-WaDQuBAj9O9JqHQp-s6t-cWcJjjhHuj3OZ0y…> ". I would suggest we reunite the different versions and forks, and in order to prevent future version conflicts and end up working on the same resources, I would also suggest to transfer the ownership of the document to you Mirjana, as you have taken over the the chair of LatinGP since. Due to technical restrictions of Google Docs, I cannot transfer the ownership of the document to you Mirjana myself, but from what I gather, it is possible to make a copy of the document to your own account, and then share it by yourself as a new version. The process is described here <http://webapps.stackexchange.com/questions/67371/transferring-files-across-…> and I would suggest we follow those steps so that you could re-share those files again. Let me know if you need help with that - we could also resolve that off-list e.g. in a chat or skype call. I really think we need to clean up this versioning and the different forks and keep the ownership centralized, so we don't loose work. Once we have done that, it should make things easier for everybody and relief us from the burden of version control. Whatever road we follow, I believe we will need shared resources, which we can all edit and which we need to put under some form of version control. Putting stuff in actual version control systems such as Git makes it difficult because we are working with binary files, rich formatting, tabular data, and Unicode code points. In ArabGP, for example, we ended up sharing word and excel file using a shared Dropbox, but even there someone needed to manually do the version control and we ended up constantly copying and renaming the documents, e.g. ammending REV- Meikal or REV-Sarmad, or V0.2 to the filename, which worked somehow, but which became cumbersome at some point and someone had to take responsibility in any case. I personally think the Google Docs solution is helpful, and we should continue that way, but if the group is not unified in that regard, we should have that discussion, settle the matter, and stick to any procedure we agree upon. I for one keep loosing track of emails and email attachments. In this regard, I believe it might be useful for us to also have a shared repository where we can put accompanying files - if we stick with the Google Docs solution we could also create a shared Google Drive folder, which contains relevant resources we need for our work - I personally think such a solution is better than a wiki or a website, but that could be a matter of a further discussion we need to have. Sorry for the verbose email, but I'm trying to prevent a loss of work. I hope this is helpful and clear. Best, Meikal

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Second draft: How to process Latin letters in specific languages
by Mirjana Tasić Feb. 1, 2017

Feb. 1, 2017

Dear Latin GP members, I have uploaded new version of the table with EGIDS=3,4 languages. There are 86 languages in the table for processing. The link to the table is https://docs.google.com/document/d/13t67htDfalz5DgGVtU19RJAYvj8JLXDuZmOwirs… I, also made some instructions how the processing of letters in selected languages could be done Please look at the instructions and help me to improve them. The link to the instructions in Google docs is https://docs.google.com/document/d/11f-WaDQuBAj9O9JqHQp-s6t-cWcJjjhHuj3OZ0y… As I looked a little bit in the table and procedure, my opinion is that every willing member could take at least 10 languages for processing. Processing 10 languages will give us better estimation how much time is needed for all languages. I am asking willing members to send me a note , and I shall allocate to each willing member a block of 10 languages in the table. Regards Mirjana

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new member announcement
by Sarmad Hussain Feb. 1, 2017

Feb. 1, 2017

Dear Latin GP members, I am pleased to announce that Bill Jouris has joined Latin GP. Bill has a background in engineering and anthropology is the COO at Inside Products. He speaks English and German and is proficient in Japanese. Dear Bill Jouris, welcome to Latin GP! Please feel free to add any further details you would like for the members. We look forward to your contribution. Regards, Sarmad

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