- EURO-Discuss - lists.icann.org

My new blog
by Vittorio Bertola May 23, 2007

May 23, 2007

All, I have finally managed to set up a blog in English about ICANN and Internet Governance issues. I plan to use it to post my updates as a Board liaison (in addition to those given directly to the Committee) and for what regards the other processes I am involved in, to spread news and encourage discussion. Don't expect too many posts, but I'll try to use it whenever there is information that needs to be circulated, statements and explanations to be posted, or other blog postings that I'd like to comment ;) The URL is http://bertola.eu/netblog/ and of course, feel free to forward to other RALOs and lists that might be interested in it. Regards, -- vb. Vittorio Bertola - vb [a] bertola.eu <-------- --------> finally with a new website at http://bertola.eu/ <--------

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Re: [EURO-Discuss] [EURO-ALS] At-Large EURALO 2007 Election Results
by Nick Ashton-Hart May 22, 2007

May 22, 2007

Firstly, happy Birthday Wolfgang :) Secondly: Vittorio's long service has borne great fruit and I hope that a vote of congratulations and thanks will be the first order of business at the ALAC meeting in San Juan, and of the first EURALO board meeting :) Third: While a number of EURALO board members will be in San Juan, others will not - however, we can arrange a meeting and telephonic access to it, so that the first board meeting could be held in San Juan. Needless to say, we staff people will be happy to make all the necessary arragements. On 22/05/07, Vittorio Bertola <vb(a)bertola.eu> wrote: > Kleinwächter ha scritto: > > First of all congratulations to all elected. We went through a > > complicated process but at the end of the day we have been sucessful > > to to build a structure and to elect a leadership for our EURALO and > > to give legitimacy to our two reps in the ALAC. > > > > Looking at the results I am also happy that at the end of the day the > > principle of geographical and cultural diversity is reflected in the > > final outcome. I am also satisfied that we have a good balance of > > different institutions in the EURALO Board. This gives us a great > > opportunity to move now from the discussion of procedural issues to > > issues of substance. I am sure that this discussion will produce much > > more unity than we had in the procedural debate. > > > > I would also invite Patrick, even if he was not elected, to give his > > energy and knowledge to the EURALO process. There is no need to have > > a position to give input to the process. And the at large community > > lives to a high degree from individual contributions. > > > > Next step would be the drafting of a workplan. I would also encourage > > a discussion on a strategy paper with some mid-term goals and > > milestones. As you have seen there are two European ICANN meeting > > scheduled now fro 2008 and 2009. This should be seen as a challenge > > for EURALO not only to show the face but to bring fresh ideas and > > actions to the ICANN process. > > > > Hope we have some time in San Juan to discuss the next concrete > > steps. > > I want to join you in the congratulations, and also thank you and the > other people that, while not being candidates in these votes, put a lot > of effort in the last years to make it happen. > > While thanking everyone for the support in the vote for the EURALO > Board, I'd like to point out that this marks the long awaited end of my > four-and-a-half-year-long term in the ALAC. Nobody expected that it > would take so long, and we had to try, struggle, make mistakes, go > through cycles of enthusiasm and disappointment. In the end, we > succeeded, though I agree with some of the comments about the need to > understand what went wrong in these last steps of the process, and > whether we need more adjustments in the future. (And also, congrats to > Veronica and Sébastien, and I'd be happy to set aside a couple of hours > with you, early in San Juan, to pass on some experience and bring you up > to speed.) > > But I disagree with the comment I've read somewhere, that this process > forces good people to exit: actually, this election brings for the first > time into active positions in the At Large constituency several new > people, both relatively new to ICANN such as Veronica and many others, > involved in the past in other constituencies such as Sébastien and > Desiree, or already very expert in Internet Governance matters such as > Jeanette, Bill and Karen. And we need more voices, not less, even if > this costs some time and "pain" to understand and accept each other. > > I agree with you that we need a timeline for the next months. We have > some "meta" issues still open, such as individual participation; also, I > think that the theme of At Large Board seats and other reforms will > likely be on the table during the ALAC review (at least, we've been > working for it). We have to increase our credibility by making our > processes more reliable and less contrasted, and by getting more and > more organizations, of many different kinds, around this table. It's a > big challenge for the EURALO Board and we have to be prepared. > > To be practical, I don't know how do we want to proceed - do we want > ICANN to set up a EURALO Board mailing list, or do we want to work here, > or set one up on our own? We should start working immediately, and > perhaps arrange a meeting for those of us who will be in San Juan, if > enough will (who is going to attend?). > > In the meantime, and to conclude, I've discovered that today is your > birthday, so - happy birthday, Wolfgang! > > Regards, > -- > vb. Vittorio Bertola - vb [a] bertola.eu <-------- > --------> finally with a new website at http://bertola.eu/ <-------- > -- -- Regards, Nick Ashton-Hart PO Box 32160 London N4 2XY United Kingdom UK Tel: +44 (20) 8800-1011 USA Tel: +1 (202) 657-5460 Fax: +44 (20) 7681-3135 mobile: +44 (7774) 932798 Win IM: ashtonhart(a)hotmail.com / AIM/iSight: nashtonhart(a)mac.com / Skype: nashtonhart Online Bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashtonhart

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Re: [EURO-Discuss] [EURO-ALS] EURALO elections
by Nick Ashton-Hart May 21, 2007

May 21, 2007

Dear Rena: The address you have given is the one used to send the voting information to you. If you still have not received it, perhaps I should address the message to your personal address - rena(a)bionic.zerberus.de Do let me know. On 20/05/07, Rena Tangens <rena(a)bionic.zerberus.de> wrote: > Hello Nick, hello all, > > Tuesday, May 15, 2007, 2:05:43 PM, you wrote: > > > Please be advised that the election for ALAC candidates, board members and > > number of board seats will commence tomorrow, Wednesday 16th May, at noon > > UTC and will close at noon UTC on Sunday 20th May. > > > The 16 agreed voters will receive an email later today with voting codes and > > access to the polls. > > FoeBuD e.V. is in the list of voters -- but I did not receive the > voting code and the link. I just returned from travel and wanted to > vote and realized I can't do this without code and link. > > Please send the data I need to mail(a)foebud.org. Thank you. > > //Rena Tangens, FoeBuD e.V. > > FoeBuD e.V. > Marktstr. 18 > D-33602 Bielefeld > > Tel: 0521-175254 > Fax: 0521-61172 > Mail: mail(a)foebud.org > Web: www.foebud.org > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Vorratsdatenspeicherung, RFID-Schnüffelchips, Videoüberwachung... > Da kann man kann ja doch nichts gegen machen? Irrtum. > FoeBuD e.V. / Kto 2129799 / Sparkasse Bielefeld / BLZ 480 501 61 > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Online spenden: https://www.foebud.org/spende/ > -- -- Regards, Nick Ashton-Hart PO Box 32160 London N4 2XY United Kingdom UK Tel: +44 (20) 8800-1011 USA Tel: +1 (202) 657-5460 Fax: +44 (20) 7681-3135 mobile: +44 (7774) 932798 Win IM: ashtonhart(a)hotmail.com / AIM/iSight: nashtonhart(a)mac.com / Skype: nashtonhart Online Bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashtonhart

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Re: [EURO-Discuss] Voting Ends Tomorrow at Noon UTC
by Nick Ashton-Hart May 20, 2007

May 20, 2007

Rudi: It seems Susie made a mistake in that email. As you may recall, the vote was meant to run for five full days from the start of the vote, which would be through the 21st in this case. On 20/05/07, Rudi Vansnick <rudi.vansnick(a)isoc.be> wrote: > Sorry Nick, but I thought is was scheduled for today Sunday at 1200 UTC ? > > See email send by ALAC Staff on 16/5/2007 : > > Please be advised that the election for ALAC candidates, board members > and number of board seats will commence tomorrow, Wednesday 16th May, at > noon UTC and will close at noon UTC on Sunday 20th May. > > The 16 agreed voters will receive an email later today with voting codes > and access to the polls. > > Regards > At-Large Staff > > Best regards > > Rudi Vansnick > > Nick Ashton-Hart schreef: > > Dear Colleagues: > > > > As promised, I'm reminding you that the voting ends at 1200 UTC tomorrow. > > > > At the present, only three voters have not cast their vote. I have had > > the voting system send them a reminder and the codes and links again. > > > > The vote results will be announced as follows: > > > > 1) The results will be sent by email to the European email lists. > > 2) In that message, a link will be provided to the voting system, > > where a vote-specific URL will allow the results to be directly > > compared to the staff-published results. > > > > The details published will be quite granular in terms of what votes > > were received in what order of preference. The ballot is secret of > > course, so it will not be possible to see how a particular voter cast > > their vote. > > > -- -- Regards, Nick Ashton-Hart PO Box 32160 London N4 2XY United Kingdom UK Tel: +44 (20) 8800-1011 USA Tel: +1 (202) 657-5460 Fax: +44 (20) 7681-3135 mobile: +44 (7774) 932798 Win IM: ashtonhart(a)hotmail.com / AIM/iSight: nashtonhart(a)mac.com / Skype: nashtonhart Online Bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashtonhart

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Voting Ends Tomorrow at Noon UTC
by Nick Ashton-Hart May 20, 2007

May 20, 2007

Dear Colleagues: As promised, I'm reminding you that the voting ends at 1200 UTC tomorrow. At the present, only three voters have not cast their vote. I have had the voting system send them a reminder and the codes and links again. The vote results will be announced as follows: 1) The results will be sent by email to the European email lists. 2) In that message, a link will be provided to the voting system, where a vote-specific URL will allow the results to be directly compared to the staff-published results. The details published will be quite granular in terms of what votes were received in what order of preference. The ballot is secret of course, so it will not be possible to see how a particular voter cast their vote. -- Regards, Nick Ashton-Hart PO Box 32160 London N4 2XY United Kingdom UK Tel: +44 (20) 8800-1011 USA Tel: +1 (202) 657-5460 Fax: +44 (20) 7681-3135 mobile: +44 (7774) 932798 Win IM: ashtonhart(a)hotmail.com / AIM/iSight: nashtonhart(a)mac.com / Skype: nashtonhart Online Bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashtonhart

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Re: [EURO-Discuss] [EURO-ALS] EURALO elections
by FoeBuD e.V. May 20, 2007

May 20, 2007

Hello Nick, hello all, Tuesday, May 15, 2007, 2:05:43 PM, you wrote: > Please be advised that the election for ALAC candidates, board members and > number of board seats will commence tomorrow, Wednesday 16th May, at noon > UTC and will close at noon UTC on Sunday 20th May. > The 16 agreed voters will receive an email later today with voting codes and > access to the polls. FoeBuD e.V. is in the list of voters -- but I did not receive the voting code and the link. I just returned from travel and wanted to vote and realized I can't do this without code and link. Please send the data I need to mail(a)foebud.org. Thank you. //Rena Tangens, FoeBuD e.V. FoeBuD e.V. Marktstr. 18 D-33602 Bielefeld Tel: 0521-175254 Fax: 0521-61172 Mail: mail(a)foebud.org Web: www.foebud.org ---------------------------------------------------------------- Vorratsdatenspeicherung, RFID-Schnüffelchips, Videoüberwachung... Da kann man kann ja doch nichts gegen machen? Irrtum. FoeBuD e.V. / Kto 2129799 / Sparkasse Bielefeld / BLZ 480 501 61 ------------------------------------------------------------------ Online spenden: https://www.foebud.org/spende/

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Re: [EURO-Discuss] Voting procedure for ALAC seats
by Roberto Gaetano May 20, 2007

May 20, 2007

I take note that you still avoid answering the question. Thanks for confirming what I thought. RG > -----Original Message----- > From: Thomas Roessler [mailto:roessler@does-not-exist.org] > Sent: 20 May 2007 02:12 > To: Roberto Gaetano > Cc: 'Discussion for At-Large Europe'; 'Nick Ashton-Hart' > Subject: Re: [EURO-Discuss] Voting procedure for ALAC seats > > On 2007-05-20 01:27:38 +0200, Roberto Gaetano wrote: > > > Incidentally, can we have a list of who can speak, as we > have for the > > time being already excluded Nick, as staff, and yours > truly, as Board > > member, but you still have said nothing to comment the > proclaim I have > > referenced in my previous email (attached again, in case it was > > forgotten), that you have carefully avoided to comment? Is this > > behaviour by a former ALAC Chair acceptable? > > Is *this* behavior by an ICANN Board Member -- mostly, > consisting of putting words into others' mouths (which they > haven't said) -- acceptable? > > I don't think so. > -- > Thomas Roessler <roessler(a)does-not-exist.org>

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Re: [EURO-Discuss] Voting procedure for ALAC seats
by Nick Ashton-Hart May 19, 2007

May 19, 2007

That wasn't the point Thomas. You all will have to sort things out between yourselves. The point was that it isn't usual or good practice to explain votes, state support for candidates, or anything related to an election during an election, except to raise a point of clarification if there is a lack of understanding. My statement was a statement of fact, a reminder of good practice in the conduct of elections. On 18/05/07, Thomas Roessler <roessler(a)does-not-exist.org> wrote: > On 2007-05-18 21:45:39 +0100, Nick Ashton-Hart wrote: > > > May I suggest to everyone that it is usual, during voting, not to > > either explain votes, state support for candidatures or choices, > > or the opposite. > > May I suggest that this is a question that the parties affected can > very well sort out without staff supervision? > > -- > Thomas Roessler <roessler(a)does-not-exist.org> > -- -- Regards, Nick Ashton-Hart PO Box 32160 London N4 2XY United Kingdom UK Tel: +44 (20) 8800-1011 USA Tel: +1 (202) 657-5460 Fax: +44 (20) 7681-3135 mobile: +44 (7774) 932798 Win IM: ashtonhart(a)hotmail.com / AIM/iSight: nashtonhart(a)mac.com / Skype: nashtonhart Online Bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashtonhart

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Re: [EURO-Discuss] Voting procedure for ALAC seats
by Nick Ashton-Hart May 19, 2007

May 19, 2007

True it is a view - one that is informed by 20 years of experience working in international decision-making processes, so it is a rather well-informed view. Nobody can force anyone in the community to conform to operating in a procedural framework that is viewed as good or best practice in international relations. However, choosing to ignore what is legitimating and pursuing something which has the opposite effect does not, again in my experience, lead to a positive end. Nor, to be frank, does it lead to a discussion which results in productive work being done. It does tend to lead to quite the opposite situation. As to what staff should or should not be doing - it is definitely the role of staff in a secretariat to act as observers of processes and to provide input on what options for good governance and decision-making frameworks are available. It is the job of the community to implement, or not, the advice. Like all advice, you are free to use it or not as you wish. I'm sure the German members of the EURALO will recall the excellent maxim of Bismarck: "Only a fool learns from his own mistakes. I learn from the mistakes of others." Something I've tried to keep firmly in mind throughout my life (not always terribly successfully it must be said). My experience in this area is pretty long - there are some others, like Roberto, who have long experience as well. Hearing the benefit of my experience in these areas will not hurt you, or anyone else here - whether you avail yourself of it or not is up to you. On 19/05/07, Thomas Roessler <roessler(a)does-not-exist.org> wrote: > On 2007-05-19 22:42:43 +0100, Nick Ashton-Hart wrote: > > > My statement was a statement of fact, a reminder of good practice > > in the conduct of elections. > > Your statement was one particular view as to how elections are to be > conducted. Others might disagree. > > Very frankly, I don't think you should be pushing this particular > kind of discussion from the staffer's seat. > > -- > Thomas Roessler <roessler(a)does-not-exist.org> > -- -- Regards, Nick Ashton-Hart PO Box 32160 London N4 2XY United Kingdom UK Tel: +44 (20) 8800-1011 USA Tel: +1 (202) 657-5460 Fax: +44 (20) 7681-3135 mobile: +44 (7774) 932798 Win IM: ashtonhart(a)hotmail.com / AIM/iSight: nashtonhart(a)mac.com / Skype: nashtonhart Online Bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashtonhart

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Keep the documentation
by Roberto Gaetano May 19, 2007

May 19, 2007

I hope that all the discussions going on now will remain as a record for the time in which the ALAC Review will take place. It will be interesting to know, for the reviewers, how much time is spent on substantial discussions, and how much time on procedural matters. In particular, how much time is spent in revisiting former consensus decisions taken only few months earlier. >From the attitude point of view, what is appalling, looking from the outside, is how a couple of people have inherited the Jeff William syndrome, i.e. the belief that when they speak, that means that this is the consensus position, and just because the majority does not have neither time nor envy to reply to each and every message, that becomes the consensus, overriding previous decisions. Last but not least, I do not take sides on what form of vote will be more democratic, I just only note that there is one fundamentally undemocratic approach, which is to change the rules of an election on the day before the elections, when nominations are already closed (based on the previous rules). Whether this is on the voting mechanism for ALAC reps, or on the number of seats for the Board. The only good thing is that, as I hoped, all ALSes have signed, making the whole fandango raised on the MoU a complete loss of time. Incidentally, I will write to a trusted third party my forecast on the result, and that can be compared at the end with what really happened. It is a bit funny, because I have the impression that there's a lot of noise for an election that, for the ALAC seats, has the result already known, if you just sit down and think. Cheers, Roberto

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