February 2009 - council - lists.icann.org

Draft GNSO Council minutes 18 December 2008
by Glen de Saint Géry Feb. 14, 2009

Feb. 14, 2009

Dear Councillors, Attached please find the draft GNSO Council minutes of 18 December 2008. Please let me know if you would like any changes made. Thank you. Kind rregards, Glen Glen de Saint Géry GNSO Secretariat gnso.secretariat(a)gnso.icann.org http://gnso.icann.org

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RE: [council] Motion on Individual Users in the GNSO.
by Tim Ruiz Feb. 13, 2009

Feb. 13, 2009

Please add James Bladel (jbladel(a)godaddy.com) as a volunteer for this list and discussion. Thanks, Tim -------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [council] Motion on Individual Users in the GNSO. From: "Gomes, Chuck" <cgomes(a)verisign.com> Date: Mon, February 09, 2009 9:17 am To: "Anthony Harris" <harris(a)cabase.org.ar>, Stéphane_Van_Gelder <stephane.vangelder(a)indom.com>, <avri(a)acm.org>, "GNSO Council" <council(a)gnso.icann.org> If we can get a volunteer almost immediately, it probably would be fine, at least in my opinion. Chuck > -----Original Message----- > From: Anthony Harris [mailto:harris@cabase.org.ar] > Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 10:03 AM > To: Gomes, Chuck; Stéphane Van Gelder; avri(a)acm.org; GNSO Council > Subject: Re: [council] Motion on Individual Users in the GNSO. > > With regards to involving individual > users, what about the IEEE ? I just > checked their website: > www.ieee.org > > The members are individuals (engineering professionals), and > would appear to qualify as "users" of the Internet? > > Tony Harris > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gomes, Chuck" <cgomes(a)verisign.com> > To: "Stéphane Van Gelder" <stephane.vangelder(a)indom.com>; > <avri(a)acm.org>; "GNSO Council" <council(a)gnso.icann.org> > Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 1:37 PM > Subject: RE: [council] Motion on Individual Users in the GNSO. > > > > > > I recommend that we not make a huge issue out of this and simply > > identify some individual users to work with the ALAC. > First of all, > > we do not have time because, even with the Board extension, > we have to > > provide any recommendations by 20 February. Secondly, the key is > > really to try and develop some sound recommendations about how to > > involve individual users in the GNSO without being duplicative with > > the ALAC. If there are individuals from anywhere in the > GNSO that are > > available and willing to contribute constructively to the work that > > the ALAC is doing in response to the Board's request, > volunteer, but > > do it quickly because the work is already ongoing and will > be over before we know it. > > > > Chuck > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: owner-council(a)gnso.icann.org > >> [mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org] On Behalf Of Stéphane Van > >> Gelder > >> Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 4:08 AM > >> To: avri(a)acm.org; GNSO Council > >> Subject: Re: [council] Motion on Individual Users in the GNSO. > >> > >> > >> Two good questions. > >> If we are seeking ind. user representatives, it would be > nice to know > >> that's what they actually are and that they do truly represent the > >> constituency they are claiming to represent. > >> > >> On the other hand, it is true that we could probably all > qualify as > >> ind. > >> users. > >> > >> So the risk here is that the ind. user group becomes a kind of > >> "catch-all". > >> > >> Stéphane Van Gelder > >> > >> > >> Le 06/02/09 06:04, « Avri Doria » <avri(a)psg.com> a écrit : > >> > >> > > >> > On Fri, 2009-02-06 at 09:37 +0500, Zahid Jamil wrote: > >> >> > >> >> Would there be a need to justify that persons involved need to > >> >> represent an individual users perspective rather than overly > >> >> conflicting with other interests? > >> >> > >> > > >> > How does one do this? > >> > > >> > In some sense aren't we all individual users? So would it > >> not be up > >> > to each volunteer to indicate whether they felt they could > >> represent > >> > the viewpoint of an individual user in this particular effort? > >> > > >> > a. > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > >

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RE: [council] Preliminary Report of ICANN Board meeting - 3 Feb 2009
by Bruce Tonkin Feb. 12, 2009

Feb. 12, 2009

Hello Mike, > > Re term limits, is it correct that terms served up and > through Seoul do not > count against the limit? What about those of us who are in > mid-term as of > the end of Seoul meeting, is it correct that we could serve > two more terms > after the AGM in 2010 (when our current terms expire)? Some scenarios were discussed during the Board call - so you will be able to see some of this when the complete minutes come out. Other than that it is really for the ICANN General Counsel to respond to specific questions on this topic. Without speaking legally - I think the intent is that a Council member should serve a limit of two terms in a row. I think there is recognition that while you are in transition - a constituency may wish to extend a current term of a long standing member until the 2009 AGM while some of the structural issues are being worked out. There is probably nothing stopping you appointing a person for a two year term starting today - but I think the intent of the term limit should be considered when making that appointment. Regards, Bruce

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Proposed Motion - Registration Abuse Policies Working Group
by Rosette, Kristina Feb. 12, 2009

Feb. 12, 2009

All, Set forth below is a proposed motion to create a Registration Abuse Policies Working Group. (The attached file also contains the motion text.) The motion is the output of the drafting group. Do I have a second? K -*- Whereas GNSO Council Resolution (20081218-3) dated December 18, 2008 called for the creation of a drafting team "to create a proposed charter for a working group to investigate the open issues documented in the issues report on Registrations[sic] Abuse Policy". Whereas a drafting team has formed and its members have discussed and reviewed the open issues documented in the issues report. Whereas it is the view of the drafting Team that the objective of the Working Group should be to gather facts, define terms, provide the appropriate focus and definition of the policy issue(s), if any, to be addressed, in order to enable the GNSO Council to make an informed decision as to whether to launch PDP on registration abuse. Whereas the drafting team recommends that the GNSO Council charter a Working Group to (i) further define and research the issues outlined in the Registration Abuse Policies Issues Report; and (ii) take the steps outlined below. The Working Group should complete its work before a decision is taken by the GNSO Council on whether to launch a PDP. The GNSO Council RESOLVES: To form a Working Group of interested stakeholders and Constituency representatives, to collaborate broadly with knowledgeable individuals and organizations, to further define and research the issues outlined in the Registration Abuse Policies Issues Report; and take the steps outlined in the Charter. The Working Group should address the issues outlined in the Charter and report back to the GNSO Council within 90 days following the end of the ICANN meeting in Mexico City. CHARTER Scope and definition of registration abuse - the Working Group should define domain name registration abuse, as distinct from abuse arising solely from use of a domain name while it is registered. The Working Group should also identify which aspects of the subject of registration abuse are within ICANN's mission to address and which are within the set of topics on which ICANN may establish policies that are binding on gTLD registry operators and ICANN-accredited registrars. This task should include an illustrative categorization of known abuses. Additional research and identifying concrete policy issues - The issues report outlines a number of areas where additional research would be needed in order to understand what problems may exist in relation to registration abuse and their scope, and to fully appreciate the current practices of contracted parties, including research to: * 'Understand if registration abuses are occurring that might be curtailed or better addressed if consistent registration abuse policies were established' 'Determine if and how [registration] abuse is dealt with in those registries [and registrars] that do not have any specific [policies] in place' 'Identify how these registration abuse provisions are [...] implemented in practice or deemed effective in addressing registration abuse'. In addition, additional research should be conducted to include the practices of relevant entities other than the contracted parties, such as abusers, registrants, law enforcement, service providers, and so on. The Working Group should determine how this research can be conducted in a timely and efficient manner -- by the Working Group itself via a Request for Information (RFI), by obtaining expert advice, and/or by exploring other options. Based on the additional research and information, the Working Group should identify and recommend specific policy issues and processes for further consideration by the GNSO Council. SSAC Participation and Collaboration The Working Group should (i) consider inviting a representative from the Security and Stability Advisory Committee (SSAC) to participate in the Working Group; (ii) consider in further detail the SSAC's invitation to the GNSO Council to participate in a collaborative effort on abuse contacts; and (iii) make a recommendation to the Council about this invitation. Workshop at ICANN meeting in Mexico City on Registration Abuse Policies - In order to get broad input on and understanding of the specific nature of concerns from community stakeholders, the drafting team proposes to organize a workshop on registration abuse policies in conjunction with the ICANN meeting in Mexico City. The Working Group should review and take into account the discussions and recommendations, if any, from this workshop in its deliberations. <<Draft motion - Registration Abuse Policies Charter - Updated 10 February 2009.doc>>

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ICANN Board call - 12 Feb 2009
by Bruce Tonkin Feb. 12, 2009

Feb. 12, 2009

Hello All, Just for information - the ICANN Board is currently meeting via teleconference to discuss new gTLDs - in particular going through some of the material that would be published prior to the ICANN meeting in Mexico. From: http://www.icann.org/en/minutes/ "12 February 2009 Special Meeting of the ICANN Board of Directors - Agenda Discussion of new GTLDs" Regards, Bruce Tonkin

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GNSO Council Agenda 19 February 2009
by Glen de Saint Géry Feb. 12, 2009

Feb. 12, 2009

Dear Councilors, Attached and in plain text below, please find the GNSO Council agenda for the meeting on 19 February 2009 at 19:00 UTC. The agenda is also posted on the Wiki at: https://st.icann.org/gnso-council/index.cgi?agenda_19_feb_2009 and on the GNSO pages: http://gnso.icann.org/index.html http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/#feb http://gnso.icann.org/meetings/agenda-08jan09.shtml Proposed GNSO Council Agenda 19 February 2009 This agenda was established according to the Rules of Procedure for the GNSO Council Coordinated Universal Time19:00 UTC - see below for local times (11:00 Los Angeles, 14:00 Washington DC, 19:00 London, 20:00 Brussels, 06:00 Melbourne next day) Avri Doria will be chairing the GNSO Council meeting Scheduled time for meeting 120 mins. Dial-in numbers sent individually to Council members. Item 0: Roll call of Council members Item 1: Update any statements of interest Tony Holmes updated statement of interest Item 2: Review/amend agenda Item 3: Approve GNSO Council minutes: (Items 0-3 15 mins) 18 December 2008 Item 4: Registration Abuse Policy WG and PDP (20 mins) 4.1 discuss charter produced by Drafting Team 4.2 Vote on Charter/PDP motion Item 5: GNSO Council Restructuring Implementation Plan (30 mins) (http://gnso.icann.org/drafts/gnso-council-restructuring-implementation-plan…) 5.1 Progress on Plan 5.2 How to get things done? Item 6: Status Updates (30 mins) 6.1 Board Update 6.2 ccNSO Liaison update 6.3 Geographical Region WG update 6.4 Planning for Mexico City meeting 6.5 Policy Items 6.5.1 Working Groups 6.5.1.1 Fast Flux 6.5.1.2IRTP Part A PDP 6.6.1 Drafting Teams 6.6.1.1 WHOIS 6.6.1.2 Travel Policy 6.6.1.3 Post-Expiration Domain Name Recover PDP 6.7 GNSO "Improvements" 6.7.1 PPSC Update 6.7.2 OSC Update 6.7.3 Constituency Update 6.7.4 Stakeholder Group Update 6.7.5.Individual non-commercial Registrants in the GNSO Item 7: Action list Review Item 8: AOB (11:00 Los Angeles, 14:00 Washington DC, 13:00 London, 20:00 Brussels, 06:00 Melbourne next day) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Local time between October and March, Winter in the NORTHERN hemisphere ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reference (Coordinated Universal Time) UTC 19:00 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- California, USA (PST) UTC-8+0DST 11:00 New York/Washington DC, USA (EST) UTC-5+0DST 14:00 Buenos Aires, Argentina UTC-2+1DST 16:00 Rio de Janeiro, Brazil UTC-2+1DST 16:00 London, United Kingdom (BST) UTC+0DST 19:00 Brussels, Belgium (CET) UTC+1+0DST 20:00 Paris, France (CET) UTC+1+0DST 20:00 Barcelona, Spain (CET) UTC+1+0DST 20:00 Karachi, Pakistan UTC+5+1DST 18:00 Hong Kong, China UTC+8+0DST 03:00 Singapore, Singapore UTC+8+0DST 03:00 Melbourne, Australia (EDT) UTC+10+1DST 06:00 (Friday 20 February.) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- The DST starts/ends on last Sunday of March 2009, 2:00 or 3:00 local time (with exceptions) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For other places see http://www.timeanddate.com Please let me know if you have any questions. Thank you. Kind regards, Glen de Saint Géry GNSO Secretariat gnso.secretariat(a)gnso.icann.org http://gnso.icann.org

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Fast Flux: Summary of Initial Reoprt available in Arabic, Chinese, French, Spanish and Russian
by Glen de Saint Géry Feb. 12, 2009

Feb. 12, 2009

[To: council[at]gnso.icann.org; liaison6c[at]gnso.icann.org] [To: ga[at]gnso.icann.org; announce[at]gnso.icann.org] [To: regional-liaisons[at]icann.org] Dear All, Please note that a summary of the Initial Report of the GNSO Fast Flux Hosting Working Group http://gnso.icann.org/issues/fast-flux-hosting/fast-flux-initial-report-26j… that is currently open for public comment until 15 February 2009 http://www.icann.org/en/public-comment/#ff-initial is translated into Arabic, Chinese, French, Spanish and Russian and these translations can be accessed on page http://gnso.icann.org/issues/ under the heading "Fast Flux" Please take the time to comment. Thank you. Kind regards, Glen de Saint Géry GNSO Secretariat gnso.secretariat(a)gnso.icann.org http://gnso.icann.org

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Tony Holmes updated Statement of Interest
by Glen de Saint Géry Feb. 11, 2009

Feb. 11, 2009

Dear All, Please note on page http://gnso.icann.org/council/members.shtml Tony Holmes has updated his statement of interest: http://gnso.icann.org/council/soi/holmes-soi-11feb09.shtml Thank you. Kind regards, Glen Glen de Saint Géry GNSO Secretariat gnso.secretariat(a)gnso.icann.org http://gnso.icann.org

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Governments and Country-Code Managers' Interest in the Fast Track Process
by Glen de Saint Géry Feb. 11, 2009

Feb. 11, 2009

[To: council[at]gnso.icann.org; liaison6c[at]gnso.icann.org] [To: ga[at]gnso.icann.org; announce[at]gnso.icann.org] [To: regional-liaisons[at]icann.org] Governments and Country-Code Managers' Interest in the Fast Track Process 10 February 2009 Last year, ICANN sent letters to countries and territories informing them about the Fast Track process — where a limited number of internationalized domain names will be added to the Internet – and asked them to indicate their level of interest. This is an update on that process. A total of 252 letters were sent to national governments, and copied to country code top-level domain managers. So far we have received 74 responses and a small number of respondents requested confidentiality. Out of these (not counting confidential requests), 31 said they were interested in participating in the Fast Track process, representing a total of 15 different languages. The remaining expressed they were not interested in participating at this time or indicated that they would not be eligible to obtain an IDN ccTLD under the process. (It should be noted that it is not a requirement to reply to the letter in order for a country or territory to take participation in the Fast Track process.) Below this announcement is an updated overview of all non-confidential responses to date. The actual strings that the respondents are interested in obtaining have not been duplicated below but they can be seen by clicking the link to the PDFs for the actual replies. Receiving the information about the anticipated number of requests in the Fast Track Process along with the language specifics is very helpful in planning for implementation of the Fast Track Process. ICANN would like to thank those respondents for providing this information. If you have any questions concerning the information contained in this announcement please email ICANN at: idn-cctld-rfi(a)icann.org<mailto:idn-cctld-rfi@icann.org> Related links Sample letter sent to all governments and ccTLD registries http://www.icann.org/en/announcements/announcement-02oct08-en.htm Earlier announcement on responses received http://www.icann.org/en/announcements/announcement-01nov08-en.htm For more details about the IDN ccTLD Fast Track Process: http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/ Responses from National Government: Country Interest in obtaining and IDN ccTLD during the Fast Track Process If the IDN ccTLD string is unknown, is the script and languages known? Anticipated time- frame for launch Yes No Language Script ANGUILLA<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/gov-anguilla.pdf> x English ASCII Codes ARMENIA x BARBADOS<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/gov-barbados.pdf> x BHUTAN x 1-year BOLIVIA<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/gov-bolivia.pdf> x Spanish 1/2-year BRASIL<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/gov-brasil.pdf> x BULGARIA<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/gov-bulgaria.pdf> x Bulgarian Cyrillic mid-2009 CAYMAN ISLANDS <http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/gov-cayman-islands.p…> x DENMARK<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/gov-denmark.pdf> x EGYPT <http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/gov-egypt.pdf> x Arabic Arabic 6-months FINLAND<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/gov-finland.pdf> x GREECE<http://www.icann.org/correspondence/anastasopoulos-to-twomey-28jul08.pdf> x Greek Greek JAPAN<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/gov-japan.pdf> x about 1-year JORDAN<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/gov-jordan.pdf> x 1/2-year; by Q1 2009 KOREA (REP. OF) <http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/gov-korea-rep.pdf> x Korean Hangeul 6-months - 1-year LAO P.D.R<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/gov-lao-pdr.pdf>. x Laotian mid-2010 LIECHTENSTEIN<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/gov-liechtenstein.pdf> x LITHUANIA<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/gov-lithuania.pdf> x NETHERLANDS<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/gov-netherlands.pdf> x NORWAY<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/gov-norway.pdf> x MEXICO<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/gov-mexico.pdf> x Spanish Latin MONGOLIA<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/gov-mongolia.pdf> x Mongolian 3-months MOROCCO <http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/gov-morocco.pdf> x Arabic Arabic 18-months NEW ZEALAND x NIUE<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/gov-niue-island.pdf> x PAKISTAN<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/gov-pakistan.pdf> x PITCAIRN<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/gov-pitcairn-islands…> x RUSSIAN FEDERATION<http://www.icann.org/correspondence/shchegolev-to-twomey-19jun08.pdf> x Russian Cyrillic ready SAUDI ARABIA <http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/gov-saudi-arabia.pdf> x SINGAPORE<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/gov-singapore.pdf> x Chinese, Malay, Tamil SLOVAK REPUBLIC <http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/gov-slovak-republic.…> x SWEDEN<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/gov-sweden.pdf> x Yiddish ready TONGA<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/gov-tonga.pdf> x Tongan Roman TUNISIA<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/gov-tunisia.pdf> x Arabic 1/2-year TURKEY<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/gov-turkey.pdf> x Turkish Latin w/extensions 6-months UNITED ARAB EMIRATES <http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/gov-united-arab-emir…> x 2nd half of '09 UNITED STATES<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/gov-united-states.pdf> x Responses from ccTLD Operators: Country Interest in obtaining and IDN ccTLD during the Fast Track Process If the IDN ccTLD string is unknown, is the script and languages known? Anticipated timeframe for launch Yes No Language Script ALGERIA x ANDORRA<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/cctld-andorre.pdf> x Catalan ARMENIA<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/cctld-armenia.pdf> x AUSTRIA<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/cctld-austria.pdf> x German ASCII 2-years BRASIL<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/cctld-brasil.pdf> x BULGARIA<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/cctld-bulgaria.pdf> x Bulgarian Cyrillic immediately CHILE<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/cctld-chile.pdf> x CHINA<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/cctld-china.pdf> x COSTA RICA <http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/cctld-costa-rica.pdf> x CROATIA<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/cctld-croatia.pdf> x CZECH REPUBLIC<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/cctld-czech-republic…> x GUADELOUPE<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/cctld-guadeloupe.pdf> x IRAN, ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/cctld-iran.pdf> x Persian(Farsi) ready ISRAEL<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/cctld-israel.pdf> x Hebrew up to 6-months KENYA<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/cctld-kenya.pdf> x English Latin LIBYAN ARAB JAMAHIRIYA<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/cctld-libya.pdf> x 1-year LITHUANIA<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/cctld-lithuania.pdf> x LUXEMBOURG<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/cctld-luxembourg.pdf> x MONGOLIA<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/cctld-mongolia.pdf> x Mongolian 3-months NETHERLANDS<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/cctld-netherlands.pdf> x NEW ZEALAND <http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/cctld-new-zealand.pdf> x PANAMA<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/cctld-panama.pdf> x ROMANIA<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/cctld-romania.pdf> x Romanian Latin N/A RUSSIAN FEDERATION<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/cctld-russian-federa…> x Russian end 2008 SRI LANKA <http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/cctld-sri-lanka.pdf> x Sinhala, Tamil Sinhala, Tamil Dec '08 SWEDEN<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/cctld-sweden.pdf> x Yiddish ready SYRIAN ARAB REPUBLIC <http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/cctld-syria.pdf> x Arabic Arabic 6-months THAILAND<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/cctld-thailand.pdf> x Thai 6-12 months TUNISIA<http://www.icann.org/en/topics/idn/fast-track/interest/cctld-tunisia.pdf> x Arabic 1/2-year Glen de Saint Géry GNSO Secretariat gnso.secretariat(a)gnso.icann.org http://gnso.icann.org

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New Socialtext wiki software
by Alan Greenberg Feb. 11, 2009

Feb. 11, 2009

For those who may have found the "Dashboard" link useful to move between parts of the Wiki, it is still there, but now called "Home", still near the upper left of all pages. Alan

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